New Alberta, Canada photo radar.

How is this for sneaky!
A new low in law inforcement.

Hey man, is that for real? I don't believe it! Can you provide a link for back-up? Where did you hear/read about this?

If this is for real I, for one, love the idea. Remember folks it is a crime not because you get caught but because you broke the law in the first place. Inventive law enforcement my Grandfather would be very proud.

Sorry, but it smacks too much of "1982", Big Brother is watching! As Irish said, a new low for law enforcement.

That's funny! If it helps to stop people from speeding or driving drunk then I say go for it.

How is it a new low!?!??! If you are speeding you deserve to be caught and charged for doing so, its simple dont speed and you wont get cuaght. If cameras are out in the open drivers can just slow down when they say one and speed up as soon as thet are past it. This technique just makes sense!

I dont like it, but at least there not using it to spy on us, anyway Ralf Clien is a moron anywho, also a drunk. So lets hope this dosnt come to Ontario, because i wouldnt mind if it was a camera on a post aiming at the street but not hidden.

~Thanato

I think it's brilliant.

Too many people are far too wreckless when they are driving, obviously law enforcement officials are looking for new measures to deter speeding among other driving infractions. If this makes people slow down and take their time, so be it.

Safety first.

I don't know...I get tired of speeders and wreckless drivers in my area. As a firefighter I end up pulling bodies out of wrecked cars all the time. Often the accidents are caused by wreckless drivers, so if this can help, I say go for it.

I drive within 5 miles per hour of the speed limit and don't have to worry about tickets so I couldn't care less if I am viewed by a radar gun on a regular basis.

When a person is in public they do not have the same rights to privacy as they do in their homes. That combined with the fact that driving is a priveledge not a right makes me think that folks should be worried about following the laws, not worried about avoiding getting caught for doing something they know is illegal.

Amen brother!

If the laws are worth having...they are worth enforcing.

as if alberta needed another reason to be avoided.

there are better ways to control speed, if that was the issue. what we really are seeing is another money looting scheme (for the city).

^Well its up to the people to not speed and if the governmnet can make money off people BREAKING the law and spend it on roads, schools etc....... then good on them.

Im half and half on this,

If you speed in the first place you deserve a fine if you get caught, you know the law.


But I agree its just revenue raising, if the government really wanted to stop speeding, why do they allow cars that can do more than the top speed limit in the first place. I know this particular camera is designed for residentual areas, im just saying in general.

Where is the line drawn after this? Where else will they put camera's to help police do their job?

Wow I cannot for the life of me understand the people who are against this idea. People the crime is the crime itself not that you got caught. Obey the law and this is not a problem. You do not have to worry about video cameras in the local bank because you are not in the bank to steal. If you are worried about this then you must be breaking the law and do not want to held accountable for your actions.

Thats not it at all, police state fan much, consider what this is the beginning of. Where else and what else are they going to do with cameras for "our" benefit? What is enough? Will you be comfortable with a camera pointing at your back yard making sure nobody under age is sneaking beers when the adults are not looking. The cameras will catch it and the police will come and it won't matter that you didn't give permission, you broke the law and should have been more vigilance. Granted that is an extreme example but it is a possibility when these things get going. Now please don't insult people's intelligence by saying that would never happen to you ever, because kids will be kids and stuff happens. Just answer this anyone would you be happy with that result? would you be glad for the extra security if that was the price to pay?

Police state, please cover yourself your paranoia is showing.

I'm sure there were a lot of Gewish Germans who said the exact same thing you just said, a lot of comfort that gave them in the camps. It has happened elsewhere, it is happening elsewhere, cover your words your ignorance is showing.

Thats what i am talking about...I loved the idea...screw my privacy...i will show off my naked body but i will not let people go away with crimes...

I am happy with this government decision...instead of putting micro chip in our body, they should put camera everywhere...

Amen..

I don't think that it is a valid argument to say that because an issue COULD escalate into an invasion of privacy at some point that we should not use cameras in public.

I agree with you in that we have to be careful how law enforcment uses cameras. I do not want any invasion of my privacy at all, but I think that in the middle of a public road there is no expectation of privacy, therefore it isn't an issue.

There are always going to be times when the courts get involved to try and iron out when freedoms are being squashed. Freedom of speech is a prime example; In the US we are allowed to speak our minds without fear of retribution, but we are also responsible for the results of those words. If I scream fire in a crowded theater(Where there is no fire) and people are trampled to death as a result, I am going to be held accountable for my actions. I have freedom of speech, but I also have a responsibility to be aware of the consequences.

My point is that there is always a chance that freedoms will get stepped on, but that it is up to the society to determine how much is too much in any given case. At some point there are going to be cameras placed in an area that push the boundries of privacy and at that point the courts will have to come together to determine where the fine line is placed that ends up being a legal boundry to protect our rights.

That being said, I understand where you are coming from. As a firefighter that has to deal with auto accidents on a regular basis, I am frustrated with having to see innocent people get hurt by idiots that are driving too fast. If there are enough cameras to continually fine people that break the law that will eventually scare the speeders into slowing down or get their license suspended I am all for it.

what about more severe fines or sentences fo speeding, I'm not talking about jail time or criminal record, but like community service. I'm sure if the sentence started at 500/hours for a first offense/zero tolerance it wouldn't take long for people to smarten up would it?

I think that more severe fines are a great idea, as well as community service. I think that speeding causes far too many injuries and deaths to be able to get away with just paying a fine and going down the road to do the same thing again.

In the county where I live there are just a handful of police and sheriffs to cover hundreds of square miles. Having cameras around in busier places would help them catch people that would otherwise get away. The cameras are a heck of a lot cheaper than hiring new officers as well...

Yeah I suppose a public area like a street is okay for that kind of thing, I just worry about the next step is all. They tried have cameras pointed down one of the wildest streets in town here and it met with a resounding boo, so they took them down.

Ah yes, everyone wants speeders and drunk drivers caught . . . except when they are the speeder or drunk driver. I do neither, so am not all that worried. We have well signed cameras at some major intersections here in Phoenix, AZ, to catch people who run red lights. OK by me, the life they save may be my own.

good point Larry.

Red light cameras are very effective, and since that is where most of the accidents happen, it is a good place to put them.

speed cameras are another issue though that digs right to the core of north americian lifestyles. when the cities are allowed to sprawl forever, we create a scenario where people will speed due to the travel distances involved. These cameras are an knee-jerk reaction to a self infliceted problem.

Maybe in large cities it should be more expensive to own and opperate a car and very very cheap to ride a 24 hour public transportation system. Imagine the effect on the justice system and the insurance system.

it already is more expensive to insure a vehicle in a larger city compared to a smaller city.

i don't like fines because they do not treat all people fairly (think of what the % of the fine is to annual income.) Real long term solutions to traffic and safety issues come with changing the design of our cities and the attitudes of the inhabitants. Controlling sprawl, favouring carpooling, encouraging cycling and public transport, traffic speed controls that perminantly change attitudes (positive reinforcement over negative), the use of "bothersome" devices that are applicable to the repeat offender's offences (in ontario and soon BC people who are repeat drunk drivers have to have a breatalizer car ignition system installed in their vehicles), stop subsidizing oil/gas to the end user, and (perhaps a bit controversial) introduce needs based vehicle purchase permits.

Something like if you work so many miles from where you live you can purchase a car? something like that?

In Phoenix, AZ, here, we have "sprawl" big time. We simply have nothing which could be termed "high rise", and have a low population density. As a result, we have little in the way of traffic congestion, little in the way of gangs, in fact, in spite of the fact that we are the fifth largest city in the US, we have escaped almost all of the usual "big city" problems. Don't knock it until you have tried it.

my stance......it is not fair for a machine to claim you were doing something illegal...if a law enforcer did not see you do it, there is no proof, you are innocent until proven guilty. Having cameras set up to do a police officers job is ridiculous, if all you need is a camera to do this police officers job, then being a police officer is obviously a very easy job, no training required, just point and shoot, right?

and the price you pay is?
what percentage of your population is car dependent?
what percentage of your city's land is dedicated to cars via roads, dealerships, gas stations, wrecking yards, ect?
what is the air quality?
what is the health of the people like?
are there "communities" within the city such that people in "area a" tend to not to go out of "area a" much?
what natural resources have been lost to pavement?

humans must find ecological balance.

the other big city problems you refer to must also be addressed. The US has strange city structures do to its "love of the automobile".

Taking all you have said into consideration, I like it here a lot. Air quality is just fine in Phoenix, thank you. You live in your rat warrens if you like, but allow me to live as I like too. The general health of the people living here is as good, if not better, than the big cities with typical big city problems. I don't know of an area in Phoenix and the surrounding metropolitian area that I can't drive through day or night without a qualm. Oh yes, we can carry guns here openly too, and a permit to carry concealed is quite easy to obtain. Yeppers, I do like it here.

guns and cars... to each his own.

strangely enough though i have never been to pheonix even though i have been to arizona a few times.

as for "rat warrens", it is not like that here at all. I enjoy the fact that i live next to nature and can ride my bike anywhere i need to go in the city. We have reduced car dependency (although not enough), and my home city has a very low crime rate, very low homelessness, excellent public transport, a high standard of living, and exceptional air quality. Plus, we don't have to worry about getting carkjacked, robbed, shot, etc.