Found this on psipog, and it just sums up the problem with this board.
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Rainsong's Rants #3

by Rainsong



Here we have yet another short rant, but this one isn’t exactly in mother-hen mode. Quite the contrary in fact. There are three annoying – and unfounded – assumptions rampant among the newbies, these days.

First among these is the idea that those of us who practice psionics should have some kind of obligation to prove the existence of various psionic effects, and of psi in general. Some people actually want to “prove psi”. Fine, whatever floats your boat. However, many of us have more interesting things to do than to prove the obvious. More to the point, some of us really do not care whether you believe in psionics, gravity, or seawater.

The second unfounded assumption is that any of us have the time or inclination to personally coach everyone who asks. None of the regulars on this site is under any obligation to instruct you, so an uninvited PM that says simply, “Hi. Teach me everything you know” is rude and presumptuous. Anyone making such a demand should be prepared for an equally rude answer, if you get any reply at all.

The third is even sillier. For some reason, people show up at this site assuming that everyone else is both knowledgeable and skillful. This site is designed for novices. The vast majority of the folks who frequent the forums and chatroom are at kindergarten-level at best. To assume that the posts on the forum or the articles here are state-of-the-art science is foolish. The articles are mostly based on experience, at least; the forum posts are not always so. To think that we should be able to make in-depth study of all aspects of psionics goes well beyond “stupid”. To make a simple example of my own case, I am involved in some research a some very small, very specific aspects of biological effects of psionics. I am not a physicist, so I do not pretend to make serious investigation of the Physics side of the house, which is, admittedly, where most of psionics-related research ought to be. Even if this were not the case, extensive research of the sort that certain people seem to expect of us takes a matter of years to “complete” just to the point to be ready to publish preliminary findings. Usually, it is done small-bit by small-bit. The fact that several twelve-year-olds, who’ve just discovered psionics in the past week, are unfamiliar with the basic literature concerning psionics research does not mean that such research does not exist. The site forum is a message board, not a scientific journal. It does not pretend otherwise. Don’t ask it to.

-Rainsong
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Also

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Claiming to be able to do something that you can’t actually do is not an effective way to impress people here. If, after claiming to already be able to do something, you then demand instruction in how to accomplish it, you will be laughed at, and not in a good way.
Most fluffy things will only earn you mocking laughter and contempt. Pretending to be a deity, a cartoon character, or a super-hero in the forum or chatroom is also likely to get you banned from the room. It was funny the first few times, but the novelty has long since worn off, and the moderators can pretty much kick whomever they want to. If being both fluffy and banned appeals to you, then by all means fill your boots.
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Sources:

http://www.psipog.net/show.php?id=49
http://www.psipog.net/show.php?id=10126



~~~~~~~~~~


Happy Reading

I agree it is a rant....now why would someone devote any time in posting on that travesty of a site is beyond me.

From the way this is written the guy clearly tries to diversify himself from the others from psipog, but what he is not saying out loud is that he believes he has some sort of ability. Worse still the hollier than though attitude goes as far as completly blanc out anyone with an opinion because apparently he doesn't care to prove anything. Instead of ranting he should have devoted all this "clever" talk in presenting the facts about "psionics" (that doesn't really exist a term for what they mean) rather than telling off those who are not aware of them. The fact tha this is his #3 post doing this means that he is a repetitive hypocrite as well.

Move along people there is nothing to see here....

Christ he needs to get out more!!!..Chill Winston!!!..

What like practice making psi balls?

Seriously it's not some great feat to set up a camera and tape yourself making these 'psi balls'. People spend all this time trying to prove their real but can't take time out of their 'busy schedule' to tape something that takes like five seconds?

Of all the people that claim to be able to make them I find it rather incredulous that not one can set up a damn camera.

You just successfully proved my point.
The article is about people's manners, and they are something you sorely need to aquire.



I have no idea, ask him yourself. www.psipog.net
If any of you care to read, I did not in fact write any of that.


You people depress me sometimes

I know you didn't write that, it's just the total ignorance of that rant irritated me.

I shall go and see if I can ask why it is impossible for them to tape their achievements now. Wish me luck.

Good luck.
But really, telling him that psi-balls don't exist most likely will not change his mind
But hey, it's worth a try.

You are in more need of them than I am....and also you had no point...you just pasted someones nonsense here...dont be silly

My point:

"Found this on psipog, and it just sums up the problem with this board. "

The article was on manners.
Well, so much for that....

----------

And I only need manners when refering to people who anger me.
Otherwise I'm a very happy chappy

Why do people have such a hard time believing that psi balls exist? It's not like people are claiming they can fly, it's creating energy in your hands. It's similar to believing that people can heal you with 'energy'. And by the way kthxbye you cant really see energy, if they set up a camera you wouldn't be able to see anything, just people's hands seemingly doing nothing.

The guy talk about children making ridiculous claims and how they percieve Psipog in their fragile little minds. Perhaps you should be more careful with what you paste or even better write your own conclusions...

Actually there are many people on that site and one this site that say their psi balls are discernible. And it's not that I don't believe that they can exist, it's just that no one has ever put forth justifiable evidence.

Okay, yeah, I lost the plot
They're not ENTIRELY about manners, but they're more guidelines on how wes should operate.
The problems with our boards are bad mistakes which lead to bad manners.
As we've seen here.... I was the one to make the bad mistake
But just as it states guidelines, it does address manners:

"For some reason, people show up at this site assuming that everyone else is both knowledgeable and skillful."

This implies that people have bad manners when their requests are not met.

"so an uninvited PM that says simply, “Hi. Teach me everything you know” is rude and presumptuous."

Easily about manners

"More to the point, some of us really do not care whether you believe in psionics, gravity, or seawater."

This is rebutting the numerous statements of skeptics saying "Prove it".

yeah I always love the prove it first response.....so funny

Gee, I guess you are right.

From now on, when folks make ridiculous claims about powers, aliens, monsters, angels, etc, we'll all just nod our heads and say 'wow'.

Seriously, though, if someone posts "I can do X", what is wrong with asking them to validate their claims?

Ask that guy.
As I said, I didn't write it, and I do not agree to all of it.

I think we should always ask "Prove it"
But it gets to the point where we seem to be badgering.

Better be a badger than a forum troll replacement...these people on psipog are largely trolls...

Badgering can be a form of trolling, as most of the time, it is to get a reaction.

Reaction is a natural part one way or the other. Trolls however are only posting nonsense to begin a thread. Badgering is ok as long as its not in excess.

Yeah, i agree that if someone claims to be able to flare a psi ball (make it visible)then it's ok to ask for proof but don't keep bothering them.
As soon as i can flare I will take a photo or make a video, also when I get better at psychokinesis I will try get a video on here.
But It's not all that easy anyway and i just posted something that was a bit off topic but i hope to help

Peace out ~Poida~

Being a badger or a troll, I do agree that obviously people require proof for people making claims that they can do this and that. Not that I know where this thread is going.

The problem on this board would be 2 main things

1)jealousy
2)looking smart/being correct 100% of the time

Explanation:

#1 somone has or believes he/she has an ability of the unatural kind.
Posts it on here. Somone who doesnt have that ability and truly believes the first person does will do one of 2 things to level that playing field. Either lower the person with the abilities/supposed abilities down or raise themselves up.

Skeptic = the one who lowers the one with the ability/supposed ability down.
Using the following:

A)Impossible (nothing can be proven impossible I would say)
B)Name calling (You're stupid so I am right)
C)Facts that are usualy truthful and almost always misleading or having nothing to do with the main point of the argument.

SuperHuman = the one who ups himself saying he has sameor better ability. (think fishermen for example. "It was HUGE!!!" "where is it?" "It got away, You shouda seen it!")

^^Not all skeptics are represented here and not all believers either (a good deal though)

#2 Being always infallible

Goes around not posting anything of their own experiences yet still has over 500 posts. They like to go around and correct spelling. They will come in just to say your wrong its been proven... They will fight to the end to keep that rep good.
Ironic it is though, because it makes them look foolish.

There are lots of good people here to or I wouldn't keep posting here.

That is my rant

Did ya like it??

There's also been a few good people run off this board before the psychic abilities section opened because of all the fighting.

I've seen "psi-balls" used. why do you call it that? In my eyes it's just another one of those things that EVERYONE could do if trained, with the added belief of course.

First among these is the idea that those of us who practice psionics should have some kind of obligation to prove the existence of various psionic effects, and of psi in general. Some people actually want to “prove psi”. Fine, whatever floats your boat. However, many of us have more interesting things to do than to prove the obvious.

But obvious things are easy to prove! It's obvious I can't fly, and I could easily prove that by jumping off of a cliff to my doom. It's obvious that water doesn't burn, and I can prove that by putting a match to a puddle. But it has honestly never been obvious for the average human being whether or not the supernatural is a sure thing. Surely you can agree with this. Can anyone here honestly say that "It's obvious that mankind has the hidden ability to control fire with his mind"? Of course not. That's just silly.

Unfortunately, this person's approach is something I have seen at least half a dozen times by people who defend the metaphysical. He seems to be reasonably well spoken, and also has a logical mind. But his careless attitude seems to be a mask in which to accent his opinions. A common but effective tactic in arguments or debates.


More to the point, some of us really do not care whether you believe in psionics, gravity, or seawater.

I don't believe that's entirely true. People from all walks of life seek acceptance for everything they do. A person who experiences supernatural things is simply insane or a kook until it is verified by someone else. I used to play pretend games by myself as a child in which I was always the hero with very elaborate and thought out powers. It was lots of fun. But I discovered something a few years later that was even more fufilling. And that was getting people to actually believe that one of my made up abilities existed for real. This soley existed over the internet. I could get people to believe I was a hacker, or had psychic powers, and for some reason it I lived in this fantasy life as much as I could. I really don't know what pulled me away from it. Maybe it was school. Maybe it was friends. Maybe it was video games. Or maybe it was just growing up a little bit.

But what fun is it to sit in a chat room by yourself and type about psychic powers? Now, fill that room with a dozen or so people, all of which have had at least one experience that is hard to explain, each of whom has visited one psionics website, and each of whom is eager to learn psionics. Suddenly that room is full of life, and each chatter is full of feeling.

Why do you think people come here saying "I had a strange dream blah blah blah"? They want to see if someone will come out and say, "That's precognition". Do you see where I am going with this?

The second unfounded assumption is that any of us have the time or inclination to personally coach everyone who asks. None of the regulars on this site is under any obligation to instruct you, so an uninvited PM that says simply, “Hi. Teach me everything you know” is rude and presumptuous. Anyone making such a demand should be prepared for an equally rude answer, if you get any reply at all.

Now that's just passing the buck. I'm a techie. I'm really, really good and fixing people's computers, and doing tech support over the phone and such. If someone online asks me how to do something, I love helping them out. In techie forums, peoplehand out advice like it was going out of style. Infact, I actually enjoy educating people on how to properly run their PC smoothly and efficiantly. It just seems natural to be proud of a talent and want to share it, doesn't it? Obviously, if some one asked me to teach them everything I knew about computers, I wouldn't be able to. The knowledge I have only comes through years of experience. But I would teach them a few quick tricks, and be more than happy to teach them more as time permits. Helping people makes me feel good.

The third is even sillier. For some reason, people show up at this site assuming that everyone else is both knowledgeable and skillful. This site is designed for novices. The vast majority of the folks who frequent the forums and chatroom are at kindergarten-level at best. To assume that the posts on the forum or the articles here are state-of-the-art science is foolish. The articles are mostly based on experience, at least; the forum posts are not always so. To think that we should be able to make in-depth study of all aspects of psionics goes well beyond “stupid”.

As I'm sure anyone who read this post can see, the writer has taken an antagonistic tone from the get-go. Now, I won't get into a complete psychological breakdown of what that may mean, unless someone posts a reply and they really really want me to. However, insulting someone is the quickest way to get them to back off in any situation.

Obviously, no one who skeptically vistist a psionics site would ever in their wildest dreams think it is based on factual proven science. However, when one visits such a site and sees 300 13-17 year olds boldly claiming abilities, it's only humanly natural to be a little skeptical, and want some sort of confirmation, isn't it?

To make a simple example of my own case, I am involved in some research a some very small, very specific aspects of biological effects of psionics. I am not a physicist, so I do not pretend to make serious investigation of the Physics side of the house, which is, admittedly, where most of psionics-related research ought to be. Even if this were not the case, extensive research of the sort that certain people seem to expect of us takes a matter of years to “complete” just to the point to be ready to publish preliminary findings. Usually, it is done small-bit by small-bit.

So, lets see, modern history os classified as being 100 years or so. So it would seem there should be some hard cores out there determined to prove their abilities who should have a complete study done by now. No?

The fact that several twelve-year-olds, who’ve just discovered psionics in the past week, are unfamiliar with the basic literature concerning psionics research does not mean that such research does not exist.

That, I fully agree with.

The site forum is a message board, not a scientific journal. It does not pretend otherwise. Don’t ask it to.

That's not entirely true, though I understand what he means. I have met countless 12 year olds who actually pretend they have these powers, talk abvout them freely, and swear they have them. And I have actually, on a very few rare occasions, been able to get a few of these hard core kiddie-kinetics to admit, after months of pretending, that they indeed do not have any such powers.


Claiming to be able to do something that you can’t actually do is not an effective way to impress people here.

That's not true. Let me tell you a true story of a guy I met on here. This guy apparently met somebody online who claimed to have the dragon ball Z like powers. He could fly, and shoot energy beams supposedly. My "friend" was telling me about this powerful person he had met, and said that on january 7th this guy was going to fly to where he lived and tech him how to do these things. Naturally, I laughed and told the guy he was a fool to believe him. But he actually waited until january 7th to see if the guy would really show up. he didn't.

Now, you'd have to be pretty damn impressed by someone's fancy talking to agree to tell a person wher you live in order for him to fly out to you and teach you magical powers.

Also, 12 year olds are impressed by other 12 year olds who claim miraculous powers. How do I know this? I used to be 12. Also, I have a 12 year old brother, and two other brothers who were once 12.

If, after claiming to already be able to do something, you then demand instruction in how to accomplish it, you will be laughed at, and not in a good way.

Alright guys, here it is. I actually have the ability to preform a levitation. What I usually do is have someone pass me a quarter. Then I hold it between my fingers, and spin it, only to have it magically remain in the air! I make it move around, over and around my hands. Finally, I grab it, and give it back to the person.

Now, none of this is actually a joke. I can seriously do this. And if anyone would like full instruction on HOW to do this, respond to this post and ask, and I WILL tell you how to do it. I swear. Step by step, though it'll take a few minutes of pratice. (And yes, I am saying this to prove a point. If you can actually do something, you will be able to teach someone else to do it.)

That little 'rant' shows best why his so-called "research" into psionics will probably never be accepted by mainstream science. He's simply unwilling to prove it, but asks for us to believe him on faith.

That's not to demean the people who ARE attempting to provide a scientific basis for psychic research, and ARE willing to subject their theories to rigorous testing. I have nothing but respect for their efforts, even though I consider their research most likely to have no positive results.

Okay, the coin trick is done with magicians thread attached to your cuff, and looped over your head. The end of which has a small ball of clear wax on it. You stick the wax on you finger nail. When you grab the coin, you mash the wax onto it, "levitate it", then scratch the wax off, and pass it back to the person.

I rigged up a reel system so i could preform this trick anywhere. I used to do it for girls in the mall all the time!

I thought you might say something like that.




You can't teach people everything you can do. You can teach people things you have mastered. You know like teachers. Sure I can tutor anyone in math below calculus, but I sure as hell can't teach it.

How long would it take for somone to learn a difficult illusion insight?
mabey 1-2 years? You know that an illusion doesn't work unless you get it perfect. Go a little to slow or something and the people will see through it.

See the problem with comparing the two is that with an illusion you know how to do it, and that you are going in the right direction. You know what to expect. With the mind everyone is different. I know as far as meditation goes different things work for different people.

another example for you insight. I built my own computer. I know enough to keep my computer running ok, but I don't know enough to really help anyone else out. I especially can't help them out if I don't have access to their computer. I bet you can though, since you know more thatn me.

It's all a matter of how much you know is how well you teach.

I agree with everything else though.

(look im a hot head ) <---- hey Insight?

You can't teach people everything you can do.


Your right. You cannot gaurentee that they will be able to reroduce the effect. However, most of the time, with enough coaching, transferring skills is possible.



How long would it take for somone to learn a difficult illusion insight?
mabey 1-2 years? You know that an illusion doesn't work unless you get it perfect. Go a little to slow or something and the people will see through it.

Actually, that really depends. Some illusions are called "self-working" illusions in the magic community because they require no skill to preform. The "PK Pen" is one of these. It's a great illusion, and requires no skill to preform. It involves a trick pen. You place the pen on the edge of a table with half of it sticking over the edge. Then you appear to use you mental powers to cause it to fall off. A great trick.

Other illusions are "combined" illusions, which are more like a set of instructions or banter for using skills you already have to created a fuller, longer illusion.

Slight of hand takes months if not years to fully master. mentalist routienes usually are self working however, and are accented by banter.

You'd be amazed at the stupid things that can seem magical to a person if you have strung them along in dialogue long enough. The art of illusion is 10% skills and devices, and 90% presentation and talking.



another example for you insight. I built my own computer. I know enough to keep my computer running ok, but I don't know enough to really help anyone else out. I especially can't help them out if I don't have access to their computer. I bet you can though, since you know more thatn me.

I understand what you mean. And yes, I could help someone even if I wasn't at their computer, though not nearly as much as I could if I was actually there.

By the way, here's an ice cube for your head -------> [█]

That is an Ice cube??

<--- Im better now though.

Yeah, it was supposed to be an ice cube. I would have just used the black square, but I didn't know is the ASCII code was turned on in this forum. Now that I know it is...

∞ⁿ┐ìé◙▌₧┼╩ç☺☻♥♦♣♠•◘○◙♂♀♪♫☼►◄↕‼¶§▬↨↑↓→←∟↔▲▼ ╚╔╦═╧