Well, my post on dowsing hasn't appeared, so far to have given me the info I wanted.  However, patience is a virtue that I am trying to achieve.

Does this subject create any more interest:

If I told you that secret wards exist in hospitals, laboratories exist where the strangest human births (some perhaps not so human if one saw the film Rosemary's Baby) are kept (God only knows why) and these strange births are some of the most hideous imaginable (two heads, serious deformities etc, etc).

The secret is as well kept as the formula of Coca Cola but they exist and as for human cloning  - it's  case of been there, seen it , wrote the book, refused the play and am negotiating the film rights etc.


What would you say?

[blue]
I would say: "could you please complete your 'If...' sentence in paragraph 3 as it does not have a main clause...?"
:sg
[/blue]

Loonboy, shhh..it's a secret, remember?

What proof do you have Gizzie, tell us more...

This should prove to be more than interesting!  I'm interested, I am looking forward to more info. if anything should arise...

Farv Michael Larion   :sj

Well, I can't in all honesty, say that I have personal proof but.............if you  have ever visited any medical museums, you will have seen all sorts of gruesome items in their "pickle jars" such as 2 headed foetuses, babies with cloven feet etc, etc , and what about the "wolf children", Siamese twins, the poor old Elephant Man....................?!

I remember reading (and I apologise for not being able to give you the title, it was many years ago) a book concerning Modern Coverups and the part I refer to was called Ward X.  If you go look at the pictures of Chinese Alien on the site, you may well think, as I do, that this is not an alien at all, but a poor deformed oriental baby (for me, it's the eyes) that someone has decided to make money out of.

What is the URL for this site with the picture of this alien?

Oh, Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese!!!

it's on this site under photos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(sorry, I don't mean to be rude but........................this site is great - don't you ever look at it?

Please LB, DON'T tell me off

What do the pictures on this site have to do with laboratories and hospitals and secret, strange births and the like. Unless you mean Chupacabras, Bigfoot and aliens are really some kind of medical experiment :-/

[glow=blue,2,300]Homer :sj

Who mentionned anything about Big Foot, etc. Not moi
I merely said that if you look at the Chinese Alien and Alien in a bodybag, they look (only my opinion) like they could be what  I'm trying to get feed back on.

As for Big Foot, I'm quite prepared to believe it exists - it's just a shame that  the photos that I have seen so far, appear to be of a man dressed up in a gorilla suit - similar to the Loch Ness monster (not that it's in a gorilla suit, I just mean, rather obvious hoaxes).

At the end of the day, I think the average person will believe in what they want to believe and what is fed to them. I'm glad to be able to participate in a Forum where peopleappear to be non average and have inquisitive minds and loads of imagination.

I know you didn't specifically mention Bigfoot. In fact you didn't mention anything specific in the photograph section, merely implied it's what you were referring to when you started this thread. The things I previously mentioned is what I saw when looking into the photograph section, and couldn't understand what you were referring to. Now I get it    Some of those alien photos look as though they could be some kind of medical experiment...interesting...

[glow=blue,2,300]Homer :sj

Oh Pleeeeeeese yourself - i obviously hadn't seen it otherwise i wouldn't of asked, i'm not in the habit of asking questions that i already have the answers for. Your post said "the site" not "this site" so thats what caused the confusion, though i'm sure SaRuMaN will be pleased to hear that he runs 'The Website'.  :D

That said i will go find and have a lookysee

WARNING!!!!! VERY GRAPHIC!!!!!!!




Gizzie,
       were you looking for these type of pictures.......Actually i think i'll just give you the link instead :s2 http://vatican.rotten.com/formaldehyde/
enter at your own risk

Hmmm mixed with yeuk! :o



Yes, that is the sort of thing I was referring to.

Rather sad and certainly grotesque, but a perfect "tool" for creating aliens.  I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but it seems to me that all the alien photos, certainly the ones I've seen, all look the same.

Most, if not all, of those babies are the result of radiation (like the baby with 2 heads) but i think you could be right about some of them (being medical experiments) because some of the pictures, in perticular the baby with only a foot below it's waist, had stitch marks on it's body like it was part of an experiment or something

Dowdy, i'm not sure whether those effects were caused by radiation, if what that website states is true and it's a 19th century collection. Well definately not medical experiments with radiation as Roentgen only discovered X-Rays in 1895/96.

Indeed, you are right about the deformities not being due to radiation; deformed births have been "birthing" throughout the ages.
With regard to the authenticity of the site, I would vote for yes.  I live in Montpellier (SOF) where there is a medical museum (I  haven't had the courage to go) and you are warned before you enter that you will see some very grotesque "things".  My sister is a doctor who replied when asked if she wanted to visit the museum that she had seen enough deformities and weird "things"  whilst training and she didn't particularly want to go and see a collection of formaldehyde soaked specimens.
What about the medical experiments the Nazis performed?  I'm sure the most terrible atrocities were committed and covered up

To go back to the original question, yes I believe in the secret ward theory.
Two of my sisters were nurses in hospitals here in Sheffield and they both told me there was a particular floor in one hospital where special clearance was needed to enter.
One rumour I heard (from multiple scources) told of a child who was born a "blob" with only an orifice for a mouth and the internal organs of a female. She was fed intravenously and nad to be kept alive by law because she was not on life support machines and she had some brain activity.
The hospital in question has now closed down and I wonder what they have done with the "patients" from that ward.
By the way, not too far from this question, is the one about- Would you be a parent to a genetically altered child if that child could save the lfe of your present child who has a life threatening disease??

                SP,

         I remember when that couple, who were in the news,  because they had a second daughter so their first born could have a bone marrow transplant.  After thinking about it,  I realized that they now have two healthy daughters,  where they eventually wouldn't have had any.  
          I don't know about 'genetically altered', though.  What does that mean?  Would that be a dangerous thing to do?  How do you know,  after giving permission,  what they might do in secret?  :s01

               

I'm so glad that someone else has also heard about this and has had it "confirmed" by family members in the medical world.

As for your question, Well.......................considering that it would take 9 months or so for the child to be born, the other child may well have died, After birth, I have no idea how long it would take before the genetically altered child would be able to help the other child.
How would you genetically alter it?  Why not just keep the new and healthy child instead of the old and unhealthy one?!  Sorry for having written such a "sick" thing - no offence meant to anyone, I promise. I have a horrible feeling that that is exactly what could happen in the future though.  Having just read an article about a man who wanted people to pay him money to watch him cut off his feet with a homemade guillotine, I fear for the future of mankind!
I honestly don't know would be my answer - it's as bad as Sophie's Choice and a dilemma I would not like to find myself in.

Don't fear for mankind - it's always been that way, just the mediums on offer have changed.

As for Genetically altered Children - "Gattaga" anybody...

QUOTE

Two of my sisters were nurses in hospitals here in Sheffield and they both told me there was a particular floor in one hospital where special clearance was needed to enter.

 What you seem to be referring to is an isolation ward. Most major hospitals have them, primarily to protect others from becoming exposed to highly contagious diseases, thus the need for 'special' clearance, or protecting the seriously ill from exposure to outside contamination.

 There have always been human mutations, deformities can result when giving life. Human abnormalities are caused by a wide range of genetic and chemical defects, as well as exposure to radiation. They may be 'hidden' from us so as not to infringe on our 'delicate' sensibilities, not because they happen to be the result of some horrendous 'experiment' gone wrong.

 The idea that any hospital or medical institution is conducting 'secret' human cloning experiments is both absurd and ludicrous. There are way too many people involved in the operation of both facilities, and the risk of discovery to great for secrecy to succeed. Not to mention the consequences any institution would face if exposed. Look to what happened to the 'Raelien" researchers who were discovered, if you want an example. It is still a possibility, however, only in a more remote and highly secretive location. Greed is a very tempting carrot to dangle, morality and decency be damned. Something tells me we would never be privy to that research, not for a long while, anyway.

Magikman  :sh

Magikman - I wasn't inferring the use of experimentation at all. I was just stating what I've heard, without comment, for eveyone to draw thier own conclusions.

Sheff,

 Neither was I implying that you were, that's why I copied your quote, just to suggest that it may have been an isolation ward that they were describing. The reference made to the 'experimentation' is in a seperate paragraph and was meant as a response to the original post.

Magikman  :)

MY ORIGINAL POST DOESN'T MENTION EXPERIMENTATION OF ANY KIND: It simply talks about secret wards in hospitals/laboratories where extreme deformities are kept.
Of course, experiments are carried out (they don't necessarily have to horrendous ones).   Horrendous medical experiments were carried out by the Nazis, there is documented proof about this and whilst they didn't perhaps manage cloning or genetically altered infants, they were experts at "breeding the Master Race, referred to as Ayrans.  This was the race that Hitler dreamt of for his world domination plan.

I am quite sure that a human clone exists somewhere -if govt secrets, top secret places exist, then I see no reason why a clone shouldn't have already been cloned.

GIZZIE,
Magik never stated that you said experiments in your original post. What he said was that his reference to experiments was a response to the original post.

You specifically brought up secret wards in hospitals and laboratories, along with strange births with hideous deformities and brought up cloning as well, then asked us what we think. Responding with something regarding experiments is a perfectly reasonable response, and one that I myself had already brought up in this topic as well.

[glow=blue,2,300]Homer :sj

Well, yes of course - I didn't mean to sound as though I was criticising/aggressive (I've already hand my knuckles rapped). I'm extremely junior to this site and, as I have to get used to you all, I guess it goes for you getting used to me - I will endeavour to adoucir my future replies and posts.

Put it down to over enthusiasm mixed with spontaneous (combustion?) reply, add a dash of "must send this immediately", blend with haven't got much of a clue how all the technical stuff works, mix well and lo and behold - a little gremlin by the name of Gizzie!!

By the way, am seriously tired after being glued (an awful fascination, I think it's called. I don't like to think I'm morbid) until 05h00, checking out conspiracy theories and the like: Rotten.com (I think) and famous morgue pictures (morgue.com maybe). Maybe you've all seen these................? Not for the faint hearted, that's for sure.
The sun is shining, the wind's coming in from the sea bringing a lovely smell of iodine, my plants are beginning to grow, my pineapple and mango are almost ready to eat.....................It's a good feeling day today!

Hi Guys,

I know I am a little late in joining this little discussion, but Magikman, you need to pray that if you have a child that it isn't damaged by the MMR vaccine.  You are all talking about medical conspiracies (I think Gizzie has been reading too many Robin Cook (?) novels though).  

The MMR controversy is a classic example of a medical conspiracy created by two very powerful pharmaceutical companies and aided and abetted by some very greedy politicians in the 1980s (you can work out which Government that was!)

In 1997, my son developed a strange "measles-like rash" (as diagnosed by the local GP) which by the end of the year had left him completely faecally incontinent, with a bloated, distended bowel, and in constant pain.  Prior to this, my son had had a bad reaction to the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccine (MMR) at 15 months which knocked back his development to that of a 9 month old.  After my son's measles virus in 1997, I began badgering doctors in earnest, I engaged a solicitor, and it was through them that I found out that although my GP practice had denied it (twice), my son had had the MMR at 15 months (1989) and the MR booster at 4 1/2 (1994).  He had had measles every year since then which has left him in crippling pain every day of his life - he is now 12.

My badgering of doctors, however, was not a good move, as because the government were by this time denying that the MMR vaccine caused any difficulties in children (Dr Wakefield's papers were published in 1998), my son had a mystery illness noone could account for.  Despite being in receipt of benefit, I ploughed thousands of pounds into private assessments and my son was finally diagosed (privately) as autistic in 1999.

However, because the local GP denied that my son had this problem as a result of the MMR, he also refused to diagnose my son as autistic.  This refusal was reinforced by the paediatrician and Child Guidance Psychiatrist (all NHS).  Because I had a wealth of independent psychiatrists, psychologists, occuaptional therapist, speech and language therapist etc., saying that my son had autism, the NHS specialists strengthened their stance against the diagnosis of autism and autistic enterocolitis caused by MMR.  

Finally, they accused me of having Munchausen's Syndrome by proxy.  This is a nefarious psychiatric condition, often levelled at the parents of autistic kids, which is a form of abuse by a carer towards another whereby they induce the symptoms of illness. (How can you induce autism?)  Faced with threats of my son being taken away, I was forced to place him in a specialist observation hospital in Southampton.  He was there for 3 weeks without me, and caused him great distress and anxiety which the staff ignored.  This special hospital, Bursledon House  is a separate building over 1/2 mile away from the main hospital.  Its main purpose is the diagnosis and assessment of abused and autistic children.  In every room there are cameras (including a camera behind the bedroom television screen - I was informed by a nurse).  However, if you try to gain access to the hospital or telephone (as I did upon my son's release) they will deny the hospital's existence.  

There are other issues too, which I won't go into, but needless to say the result of the 3 weeks was that I wasn't abusing my son, but neither would they confirm the autism and discarged my son at the age of 10 with no further treatment with a diagnosis of clinical depression, motor skill problems, severe (unnamed bowel problems) and severely dyslexic.  He nearly died 2 weeks after release.

Now he is under the Royal Free, which is going through its own major cover-up as the Hospital is owned by the Univeristy College, London, who receive a major proportion of their funding from these two major pharmaceutical companies I mentioned at the start of my rant!

In November 2001, Dr Wakefield, pioneer in the research of the MMR autism problem was forced to resign after the hospital threatened to sack over 20 members of his staff a few weeks before christmas.  Rather than see these people and their families loose their income at that time, Dr Andrew Wakefield chose to go first.  A few weeks later, the Queen announced in the New Years Honours list that (I forget his name) the Doctor who led the harrowing Bristol Infirmary Enquiry (The Organs Scandal) and found the hospital wanting in its procedures was to receive a knighthood for his work.  The same day, the Royal Free sacked him for being a whistle-blower.

Is there a conspiracy? you bet!

It's not in mutant babies or cloned infants or radiation experiments, but in our every day lives.  

Be afraid, be very afraid. 8)

The trouble with the Government, is that they tend to keep back information that they don't want anyone to know about, even if they are obligated to release the information in question.

Remember during the Foot & Mouth outbreak, it was  believed that the Government had actually known about cases of the disease before it had become public. This is another example of the Government covering up information to their own advantage. Perhaps they thought they would be able to get it under control without anyone knowing about it, and decided not to mention it until they absolutely had to.

Denying that medical institutes exist and refusing to confirm the diagnosis of an illness sounds like typical government cover-up behaviour.

I can't say for certain whether they really are covering up all of these things, but it certainly sounds as though they're hiding something.

:sk

         It certainly is one thing for our governments(or whatever powers that be) to perform experiments,  etc.,  for whatever political or monetary gains,  or even in the name of science;  but quite another,  to jeopardize the health and well-being of our children.  I'm sure it's far easier to deal with a few cases like NessyK's,  than to 'own up' to their mistakes,  and rectify them.  
           I have been lucky  (so far) with my family's health (i.e. vaccinations) - and I think that's so pathetic to have to use the word lucky,  instead of confident in the health care system.

            You can't just be afraid,  you have to fight (and that is pathetic too).

Maybe it's because I've watched too many X-files episodes. But, although like Nora, I seem to be 'lucky' as well with my family, I still can't help but think about the possibilities. What with the government having the capability through the pharmaceutical companies, and the motives being controlling the population...but nothing has happened in my life, or anyone that I know of, that would support that theory. But don't confuse that with trust, because I definately do not trust the government.

[glow=blue,2,300]Homer :sj

NessyK - The way you have been treated is scandalous beyond words. Good luck for the future.  

NessyK,

 Excuse me, but what exactly have I said to deserve your admonishment? No doubt what you have had to endure is reprehensible, how does anything I mentioned relate to your situation? You do not know anything about me or my life, so why would you single me out for such a scurrilous and inappropriate comment? I know I may hold unpopular opinions on some subjects, but I will be damned if I let someone falsely suggest I am unsympathetic or uncaring about the well-being of anyones children. I would appreciate some type of response from you, or at the very least, a retraction of your comment.

Magikman

I agree with you - I too, feel a bit "miffed" at having been accused of reading too many Robin Cook novels - ok, I haven't lived in the UK for the last 10 years but the only Robin Cook I know was/is a politician! If he did write novels and I had read them - so what?!!!!!!!!!!!

I can only refer to my original post which was about secret wards and laboratories- anything else is not of my doing.

I don't agree with "be afraid, be very afraid". We should unite to bring this scandal to the attention of the world.  having this vaccination is a personal choice obviously, but............considering the tragic consequences that can result - It should be made public.  There are govt health warnings on cigarette packets - there should be govt health warnings with regard to this vaccine;  Incidentally, forgive my ignorance, but is this a new vaccine for babies? I remember being vaccinated for rubella but not for measles and mumps (I assume MMR is for the latter).  I met a man (ex "high up" in a UK govt dept) last year, who had 2 stumps for arms with a finger and thumb on one hand.  He told one of my colleagues that his mother had contracted rubella when pregnant and his deformation was due to this.
How can you win?  One obviously wants to do the best for one's siblings but it seems as though it's potential minefield.
As for govt coverups, secrets, etc;  It seems as though we are at least in agreement or getting there. Even if we are not- we are provoking interesting thoughts, opinions and ideas

The idea that any hospital or medical institution is conducting 'secret' human cloning experiments is both absurd and ludicrous.

Magikman - This was the quote that I was referring to, although I apologise because obviously you were specifically referring to human cloning whereas I was referring to the fact that cover-ups in the medical fraternity are happening as we speak.  Sorry.

Gizzy - I am sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities too!  The author I was referring to wrote the medical pulp-fiction novels such as "coma", (I think he co-wrote ER too)  I can't remember his name so I put my hands up to that one!

I thought you might be interested in this piece from this week's Private Eye magazine taken from this week's FEAT News (FEAT is an autistic charity internet news letter): (posted in 2 parts to fit in)


MMR: Scare-Mongering?

     [In Private Eye. Not yet available online. Thanks to John Fletcher.]

     When, 16 months ago, an "incalculably small risk" was identified in apolio vaccine derived from potentially "mad" British cows, the government
withdrew it from the market. At the time chief medical officer Sir Liam Donaldson said: "Public confidence in medicine safety is paramount. We have to approach this from a precautionary principle..."
     With public confidence in the MMR triple vaccine now at a critical low and with new research showing there might be a risk, one might have expected similar caution to apply. Even if the government didn't bow to pressure to withdraw the triple jab, it might have been sympathetic to the overwhelming wish of parents to be offered the choice of single vaccines instead. But no.
Donaldson, along with ministers and other government health advisers, went on a bullyboy offensive instead, accusing those who express doubt or concern
of "scare-mongering" and "playing Russian roulette" with children's lives.  In fact it is the latest research in the MMR-autism controversy - a study that shows the unexplained presence of the measles virus in the guts
of vaccinated children who have both serious gut and bowel disease and autism - which has alarmed parents.
     The study comes from Dublin-based Prof John O'Leary, and a team including Andrew Wakefield, the gastro-enterologist at the centre of the MMR-autism furore. Again, it does not prove a link and the scientists behind the paper are not claiming that it does. But it does raise serious questions.
     What is the virus doing in children who have received either the MMR vaccine or another vaccine containing measles? Everyone knows how
potentially damaging measles can be, so is it responsible for the rare gut disease from which they all suffer? Could that in turn trigger autism? Or is it a case of children who are prone to develop autism and gut disease have immune systems which render their bodies unable to properly deal with the measles virus, either from the vaccine or the wild?
     

post part 2

These questions need serious investigation. But Sir Liam's response was to say the paper is "riddled with flaws". Really? The paper has been fully peer-reviewed and the researchers offered their raw data for scrutiny.
     One criticism has been that the team did not do DNA sequencing to find out if the measles virus came from vaccine or the wild. But it would be an amazing coincidence if all the children from different parts of the country had contracted wild measles, when we have relatively few outbreaks. That in any case would raise questions about the efficacy of the jab - something the
government might also want to investigate.
     Instead, Tony Blair and Co tell parents there is nothing to worry about and the vaccine is safe. But there are hundreds of intelligent and resourceful parents, many of whom have read far more scientific papers on vaccines than any politician, who are convinced their children have been horrifically damaged by the triple vaccine.
     They have access to the web and circulate critiques of the latest research almost as soon as it is published. They are not scare-mongering zealots who want to "see a return to the dark ages", but their children do
share a rare combination of conditions that they appeared to develop after receiving MMR. That may eventually prove to be coincidental; but so far
nothing the government has said - and none of the studies it has cited as proof that there is no link - has changed their minds. (Indeed, the Institute of Medicine in the US has already conceded that in rare cases
there just might be a link.)
     Nor did an epidemiological study released last week - the latest from Prof Brent Taylor, head of child health at the Royal Free Hospital in London, and described by Dr David Salisbury, government head of immunology, as a "clean and elegant piece of work" - reassure parents. This study looked at the case papers of 473 children with autism born between 1979 and 1998 and found that the percentage of children who developed regressional autism was no higher before the introduction of MMR in 1988 than it was afterwards.
Nor was there any difference in the frequency of autistic or bowel problems in children who had MMR before their parents became concerned about their development and those who had MMR afterwards or did not have it.
     This paper - unlike the O'Leary paper - shows little raw data. It does not show the distribution of the children by year of birth and deals only in percentages, which makes it difficult to interpret because no idea is given of how many children are being dealt with in each year. On the face of it the research shows a straight line for autism and bowel disease across the
20-year period - but we know both have risen dramatically. It is most likely that Taylor has very few children in the early year groups and many more
later.
     Neither does the paper reveal how many in each group had MMR or what criteria Taylor has used to decide "regressional" autism as against "classic" autism (when the oldest children in his group were diagnosed as autistic, it was a good 15 years before a new variant regressive type had even been identified).
     Prof Taylor claimed last week that this paper "should be close to the end game" for the MMR-autism hypothesis, and that MMR has the safest profile
of any vaccine. Yet MMR accounts for the largest claims in the US for
vaccine damage compensation. Interestingly, to fund this relatively generous scheme (compensation bill to date: US$1.3billion) the vaccine manufacturers
pay a tax per vaccine into the communal pot on a sliding scale of risk. MMR was assessed in second place to DPT (diphtheria, whooping cough and tetanus), attracting a tax of US$4.44 per dose compared to just 29 cents for
polio, for example. One recognised category for compensation is vaccine-induced measles.
     It is no longer enough simply to say that millions of doses have been used in 90 countries as evidence of safety. As Eye readers will recall, early MMR had to be withdrawn after it caused mumps-related meningitis
around the world. Other countries, including Finland, Sweden and in particular the US, have recorded unexplained hikes in autism rates. On the other side of the coin, Japan does not use MMR and does experience high rates of measles-related deaths. 17 last year. It, unfortunately, does not record autism rates.
     No one in Britain wants to see a re-emergence of measles. But people do want to know why autism rates are growing; and for faith to be restored in our vaccination programme, MMR has to be ruled in or out - or at least an honest assessment has to be made of the relative risks. That requires open research and debate and the choice of single vaccines for parents.
* * *
I concur.
NessyK

NessyK,

   Thank you. I figured that was the statement you had misread and based your comment on. Mind you, I have no problem debating issues with others as a quick perusal of my past posts will attest, but the points attributed to me must be valid ones. I took offense because of assumptions based on a subject I hadn't even given an opinion on. Medical conspiracies encompass a broader range of subjects and possible scenario's, some of which I regard as credible. I am not so gullible or naïve as to not understand that medical ineptitude and nefarious agenda's exist within the health care industry. Not surprisingly, the MMR controversy also happens to be a hot topic in the States and has garnered much notoriety. What is glaringly obvious is that the medical profession needs to undergo closer scrutiny, or many more people will suffer as terribly as you have. The greater tragedy is people's unwillingness to become involved unless something affects them directly. We become a little more aware everyday, however, and knowledge can effect change.

Magikman