Full Version: life on mars?
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Extraterrestrial Life & The UFO Phenomenon
something tells me that there is some form of bacteria or something around here.
Lol.
Theres all kinds of unintelligent life in the universe.
Theres all kinds of unintelligent life in the universe.
we're talking solar system, like mars or that moon jupiter has...
I would say that there probably is life on mars. It may not be an intelligent form, but it is there. If there was an intelligent form, I do not believe that we would ever know...
I think the life is either dead or frozen...
Mars easily at one point in the creation of the galaxy in the same conditions as Earth is now allowing life to form and then moved farther from the sun killing whatever thrived...
Mars easily at one point in the creation of the galaxy in the same conditions as Earth is now allowing life to form and then moved farther from the sun killing whatever thrived...
on mars a probe found a fossilized plant once...
It didn't.
could have sworn something like that happened...
| QUOTE |
on mars a probe found a fossilized plant once... |
As Aslan said, no Mars probe has found a fossilized plant on Mars. Even if life did develop on Mars in it's infancy, it would have never progressed to the point of plants and trees. The best we can hope for are fossilized micro-organisms, certainly not plants or foliage.
so we're talking dead bacteria, right? but jupiter has a moon (europa or something) that scientist say may have a liquid ocean beneath the surface, caused by jupiter's gravitational pull.
What about the "microbe" fossils in the martian meteorite? Did they turn out to be something else? I had'nt heard anything about them for awhile. Anyhow, I remember reading in my good ol' World Book Encyclopedias that some of the first Mars landers detected chemical reactions consistent with life. I know I'm dangerously close to entering ShadyLady territory, but I thought I remembered reading about bacteria on Mars somewhere.
| QUOTE (snuffypuffer @ Jul 31 2003, 12:49 AM) |
| I know I'm dangerously close to entering ShadyLady territory, |
. . .?
| QUOTE |
What about the "microbe" fossils in the martian meteorite? Did they turn out to be something else? |
There still seems to be some uncertainty over the martian meteorite, essentially every few years there is another claim that it really does contain microbes, and shortly afterwards somebody else says something that casts doubt again and it's soon forgotten about. At the moment I'd say it's pretty inconclusive.
| QUOTE |
Anyhow, I remember reading in my good ol' World Book Encyclopedias that some of the first Mars landers detected chemical reactions consistent with life. |
Viking did this experiment, and the first time, the results did indeed indicate the prescence of microbes in the soil. However, they repeated the experiment dozens of times and were never able to get the same results. They concluded that the first result had been due to something other than what they originally thought, and the experiment was regarded as not having found conclusive evidence of life on Mars.
my science teacher said once that there may be carbon dioxide on mars, except the atmosphere is so thin that humans could not live there... at the moment.
this webpage tells you all the factual data about mars:
Mars Fact Sheet from NASA
And as for Europa:
Ice on Europa, NASA
Mars Fact Sheet from NASA
And as for Europa:
Ice on Europa, NASA
what's that factsheet mean, anyway??? 
Thanks for clearing that up, SaRuMaN and Althalus.
*sigh* 
of course there is life in our solar system - earth for god sakes! 
I was thinking that aliens would be ameboa like.
| QUOTE |
| As Aslan said, no Mars probe has found a fossilized plant on Mars. Even if life did develop on Mars in it's infancy, it would have never progressed to the point of plants and trees. The best we can hope for are fossilized micro-organisms, certainly not plants or foliage. |
"No Mars Probe has found a fossilized plant on Mars". This is a statement based on an assumption that they are telling you the truth. So many probes seem to either malfunction or get lost while going to or surveying Mars and we are supposed to believe everything they tell us. How convenient for them. Let me make a prediction shall I?
"Engineers carrying out routine checks on Europe`s first Mars space craft, Mars Express, have found it is down to 70% power as it speeds through space. A faulty connection between the craft`s solar wings and a unit that distributes the electricity generated by the arrays is to blame. The power shortage is EXPECTED to have NO impact on the state of the space craft or the MISSION OBJECTIVES, one of which is to land Beagle 2 on Mars on CHRISTMAS DAY.(when we are all doing christmas and nobody will notice) European Space Agency {Esa} officials are confident about the mission. "In fact," says Rudolf Schmidt, Mars Express Project Manager, "overall, the spacecraft is in good shape. We are simply getting to know its personality."
What odds you give me that the Mars Express will suddenly malfunction while approaching the planet? If im wrong im wrong but I will not be surprised if they suddenly say "We have lost power with the spacecraft", just as it wastaking those nice pictures of the martian city
Oh just because because they say they lost the probe does not mean they actually did, could be they classified it while they discovered some things they would rather we did not know. Just a thought.
The national institute for discovery science has survey results which may interest you on peoples opinions of extraterrestrials existing etc
available as pdf file here:
http://216.128.67.116/pdf/nids_dayaftersurvey.pdf
and here:
http://216.128.67.116/pdf/internet_vs_roper.pdf
or directly from there site here:
http://www.nidsci.org/researchnews.html
available as pdf file here:
http://216.128.67.116/pdf/nids_dayaftersurvey.pdf
and here:
http://216.128.67.116/pdf/internet_vs_roper.pdf
or directly from there site here:
http://www.nidsci.org/researchnews.html
| QUOTE |
This is a statement based on an assumption that they are telling you the truth. |
No, this is a statement based on the fact that the conditions on Mars make it impossible for plant life to have ever evolved there.
| QUOTE (uranium101 @ Jul 29 2003, 10:56 PM) |
| something tells me that there is some form of bacteria or something around here. |
I smell it too... must be Uranus...
You assume its a fact. If they are lying about the data then it is a lie.
Dictionary definition of the word "FACT"
1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
2
A/ Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
B/ A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
C/ Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
3/ A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
4/ Law. The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.
DISPUTE= To question the truth or validity of; doubt
SUBTERFUGE= Something intended to misrepresent the true nature of an activity;
Its is a fact if you can prove it. Do you have any reasons to believe they would tell you the truth about life on Mars? Have you been on mars? I assume the world is round because they tell me it is and i guess there is a lot of evidence to support it but Mars is a long way away and all i see is what they want me to see.
Dictionary definition of the word "FACT"
1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
2
A/ Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
B/ A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
C/ Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
3/ A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
4/ Law. The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.
DISPUTE= To question the truth or validity of; doubt
SUBTERFUGE= Something intended to misrepresent the true nature of an activity;
Its is a fact if you can prove it. Do you have any reasons to believe they would tell you the truth about life on Mars? Have you been on mars? I assume the world is round because they tell me it is and i guess there is a lot of evidence to support it but Mars is a long way away and all i see is what they want me to see.
There is one major flaw with conspiracy theories based around governments. If they were so good at keeping secrets don't you think all the scandals, disgressions and failures that rock governments would be kept even closer?
If life has already been found on mars we would already know about it - too many people are involved. It wouldn't just be a collection of websites, homepages and individuals saying this it would be in the mainstream media before too long.
If life has already been found on mars we would already know about it - too many people are involved. It wouldn't just be a collection of websites, homepages and individuals saying this it would be in the mainstream media before too long.
| QUOTE |
| Its is a fact if you can prove it |
Can you prove that Chaucer existed? Or are you just relying on what people tell you? As you point out, your belief in the shape of the world is based purely on things that you as an individual can't prove or disprove one way or another. Nearly everything beyond what our immeadiate senses perceive is basically taken on as a matter of trust. I can't even prove that the capitol of Sri Lanka is Columbo, to pick an example - I'm just trusting that there isn't a massive conspiracy to convince me that it is.
The fact that I myself haven't been to Mars and searched under every rock doesn't dissuade me from the opinion that there is no life there.
| QUOTE |
Its is a fact if you can prove it. Do you have any reasons to believe they would tell you the truth about life on Mars? Have you been on mars? |
By that same logic, you could argue that Mars itself doesn't exist, or that polar bears don't exist, or anything else that you haven't seen first hand.
By 'they' do you mean NASA in particular ?
The research into Mars and the assoiated science is something shared by academic and scientific institutes all over the world, it is not NASA alone who are of the opinion that plant life could not have evolved on Mars. In order for this to be a conspiracy, then just about every University and scientific establishment in the world must be in on it.
| QUOTE |
Do you have any reasons to believe they would tell you the truth about life on Mars? |
I'd like to turn this question around a bit, what reason would NASA have to not tell the truth about something like evidence for life on Mars ? With Mars Express on it's way, why would they sit quietly with that knowledge and let Mars Express get all the credit for being the first to find that evidence instead ? It would surely look mighty strange if they suddenly came forward later and said, 'oh but we knew about that anyway.'
Once again Aslan already posted what I was going to say.
Overview
NASA is participating in a mission planned by the European Space Agency and the Italian space agency called Mars Express, which will explore the atmosphere and surface of Mars from polar orbit. The spacecraft will carry a science payload with some heritage from European instruments lost on the ill-fated Russian Mars '96 mission, as well as a communications relay to support lander missions. Mars Express will itself carry a small lander as well.
The mission's main objective is to search for sub-surface water from orbit and deliver a lander to the Martian surface. Seven scientific instruments onboard the orbiting spacecraft will study the Martian atmosphere, the planet's structure and geology.
The lander is called Beagle 2 after the ship in which Charles Darwin set sail to explore unchartered areas of the Earth in 1831. After coming to rest on the surface, Beagle 2 will perform exobiology and geochemistry research.
NASA's involvement with the mission includes joint development of the radar instrument with the Italian space agency; SUPPORT OF U.S. SCIENCE CO-INVESTIGATORS; coordination of radio relay systems to make sure that different spacecraft will operate with each other; a hardware contribution to the energetic neutral atoms analyzer instrument; and the PROVISION OF BACKUP TRACKING SUPPORT during critical mission phases by NASA's Deep Space Network."
Source N.A.S.A
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/future/express.html
So every reason because they are as i suspected very firmly keeping a close eye and hardware input on things, backup tracking support? interesting when the backup fails then won`t it? and i guess they could even control it themselves without the European space agency knowing about it but myConspiracy theory because that is what it is, is that the ESA might also be apart to it. The Face on Mars photographs is a good reason for many of these suspicions that N.A.S.A are covering up and the suspicions when they issued new photos that appear to be doctored.
You are ofcourse right, i could argue that YOU do not exist but that was not my point, My point way merely to emphasise that just because it is a FACT does not make it necessarily true in all cases, especially when there is suspicion surrounding the people making it an established fact. Need i mention the ufo cover up and the military denial? Of course they can keep a secret its just sometimes they are not very good at it
NASA is participating in a mission planned by the European Space Agency and the Italian space agency called Mars Express, which will explore the atmosphere and surface of Mars from polar orbit. The spacecraft will carry a science payload with some heritage from European instruments lost on the ill-fated Russian Mars '96 mission, as well as a communications relay to support lander missions. Mars Express will itself carry a small lander as well.
The mission's main objective is to search for sub-surface water from orbit and deliver a lander to the Martian surface. Seven scientific instruments onboard the orbiting spacecraft will study the Martian atmosphere, the planet's structure and geology.
The lander is called Beagle 2 after the ship in which Charles Darwin set sail to explore unchartered areas of the Earth in 1831. After coming to rest on the surface, Beagle 2 will perform exobiology and geochemistry research.
NASA's involvement with the mission includes joint development of the radar instrument with the Italian space agency; SUPPORT OF U.S. SCIENCE CO-INVESTIGATORS; coordination of radio relay systems to make sure that different spacecraft will operate with each other; a hardware contribution to the energetic neutral atoms analyzer instrument; and the PROVISION OF BACKUP TRACKING SUPPORT during critical mission phases by NASA's Deep Space Network."
Source N.A.S.A
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/future/express.html
So every reason because they are as i suspected very firmly keeping a close eye and hardware input on things, backup tracking support? interesting when the backup fails then won`t it? and i guess they could even control it themselves without the European space agency knowing about it but myConspiracy theory because that is what it is, is that the ESA might also be apart to it. The Face on Mars photographs is a good reason for many of these suspicions that N.A.S.A are covering up and the suspicions when they issued new photos that appear to be doctored.
You are ofcourse right, i could argue that YOU do not exist but that was not my point, My point way merely to emphasise that just because it is a FACT does not make it necessarily true in all cases, especially when there is suspicion surrounding the people making it an established fact. Need i mention the ufo cover up and the military denial? Of course they can keep a secret its just sometimes they are not very good at it
Talking of N.A.S.A secrets
John C. "Jack" Kasher, PhD, is an authority on UFOs and a professor of physics and astronomy at the U of Nebraska at Omaha (UNO). One of his research projects has been to analyze the UFOs appearing on video footage taken by NASA during Discovery Space Shuttle Mission STS-48
He is now disclosing information to the disclosure project.
John C. "Jack" Kasher, PhD, is an authority on UFOs and a professor of physics and astronomy at the U of Nebraska at Omaha (UNO). One of his research projects has been to analyze the UFOs appearing on video footage taken by NASA during Discovery Space Shuttle Mission STS-48
He is now disclosing information to the disclosure project.
| QUOTE (s*t*a*r*m*a*n @ Aug 4 2003, 02:17 AM) |
| He is now disclosing information to the disclosure project. |
and about living on Mars ... I think it might be possible .. not now .. but in the far future .. Humans are developing every minute .. who knows what great people might discover tomorrow ... or after tomorrow ...
and if it happend I would love to go to live there ... I might have my free space ..
| QUOTE |
| just because it is a FACT does not make it necessarily true in all cases, especially when there is suspicion surrounding the people making it an established fact |
there is only one word i can say that can adequetly answer this ridiculous phrase and that is "Bling?"
There is very little point in discussing this with you as you have a very 'interesting' grasp on the truth. I really suggest you check a dictionary about the use of the word 'fact'. I usually have a lot of patience with people but when people start redefining the english language to support their propositions i have to draw a line.
| QUOTE |
| Need i mention the ufo cover up and the military denial? |
My point is there is no UFO cover up.
| QUOTE |
| Of course they can keep a secret its just sometimes they are not very good at it |
So what you are saying is that they can keep secrets when it envolves UFOs but not when it could effect their careers. In exactly which world does this make sense?
| QUOTE |
| I really suggest you check a dictionary about the use of the word 'fact'. I usually have a lot of patience with people but when people start redefining the english language to support their propositions i have to draw a line. |
I did quote a dictionary.
| QUOTE |
| My point is there is no UFO cover up. |
How do you figure that one out?
| QUOTE |
| So what you are saying is that they can keep secrets when it envolves UFOs but not when it could effect their careers. In exactly which world does this make sense? |
You fail to grasp the reasoning behind this. They were successful in keeping the secret of ufo and extra terrestrial presence partly because it WOULD effect there careers. Using Fear is one of there tactics. These numerous recorded witnesses constitute only a small portion of a vast pool of identified present or former military, intelligence, corporate, aviator, flight control, law enforcement officers, scientists and other witnesses, who will come forward when subpoenaed to testify at Congressional hearings. Without a grant of immunity releasing them from their security oaths, many such unimpeachable witnesses fear to speak out.
A US Presidential Executive Order is needed to protect these military, government, and other witnesses, and to declassify secret projects and their related technologies.
| QUOTE |
| I did quote a dictionary |
you may have done, but you then ignored the meaning of the word. The meaning of the word 'fact' is it is true in all cases, not as you said:
| QUOTE |
| just because it is a FACT does not make it necessarily true in all cases |
| QUOTE |
| How do you figure that one out? |
Quickly and easily, thank you. As i mentioned above governments are completely unable to cover up all their dirty laundry. I think my previous explaination is pretty straightforward and doesn't need to be repeated.
| QUOTE |
| You fail to grasp the reasoning behind this |
You're damn right, your reasoning is a mite puzzling
| QUOTE |
| They were successful in keeping the secret of ufo and extra terrestrial presence partly because it WOULD effect there careers |
Yeah, right. So what you are saying is that a politician is fearfull of admitting to the existance of Aliens, but is quite happy to let bribery and coruptian allegations getting leaked out as they wouldn't be so damaging. Reality check please.
| QUOTE |
| These numerous recorded witnesses constitute only a small portion of a vast pool of identified present or former military, intelligence, corporate, aviator, flight control, law enforcement officers, scientists and other witnesses, who will come forward when subpoenaed to testify at Congressional hearings |
And you are privy to this 'vast pool' of identified yet unrecorded witnesses then?
| QUOTE |
| Without a grant of immunity releasing them from their security oaths, many such unimpeachable witnesses fear to speak out. |
That is quite understandable. But if they haven't spoken out, how is it exactly that you know about them? What you are saying is pure speculation i'm afraid.
| QUOTE (SaRuMaN @ Jul 30 2003, 07:26 PM) | ||
As Aslan said, no Mars probe has found a fossilized plant on Mars. Even if life did develop on Mars in it's infancy, it would have never progressed to the point of plants and trees. The best we can hope for are fossilized micro-organisms, certainly not plants or foliage. |
I totally agree with Saruman, The best we can hope for are fossilized micro-organisms. Also if NASA did find something more then bacteria etc, (Plants or similar amazing organisims, i seriously doubt they would share the information with the general public....
All right PS, tearing starman's posts apart to expose his innacuracies 
Am I the only one willing to say there is unintelligent life here on Earth? And not all is single-cell???? o.k.....now that I've been a wise-girl,yes, I believe there is life everywhere. Wasn't there a news story about MIR being attacked from outside the ship, in space, by a virus. Does anyone remember reading something about this?
| QUOTE |
| So what you are saying is that a politician is fearfull of admitting to the existance of Aliens, but is quite happy to let bribery and coruptian allegations getting leaked out as they wouldn't be so damaging. Reality check please. |
No that is not what I am saying. I did not mention politicians I am talking about military personel.
| QUOTE |
| And you are privy to this 'vast pool' of identified yet unrecorded witnesses then? |
| QUOTE |
| But if they haven't spoken out, how is it exactly that you know about them? What you are saying is pure speculation i'm afraid. |
Just a few of these witnesses comments to round off
Sgt. Clifford Stone: US Army
| QUOTE |
| "During the discussion of UFOs, the question, ultimately, is going to come up, can any government keep secrets, let alone the U.S. Government? And the answer to that is unequivocally yes |
"During the discussion of UFOs, the question, ultimately, is going to come up, can any government keep secrets, let alone the U.S. Government? And the answer to that is unequivocally yes. But one of the greatest weapons the intelligence community has at their disposal is a predisposition by the American people, the American politicians and the debunkers — people who wish to try to debunk UFO information. They immediately come out and say, oh, we can’t keep secrets, we can’t keep secrets. Well, the truth is, yes, we can.
"The National Reconnaissance Office remained secret for many, many years. The mere existence of the NSA remained secret. The development of the atomic weapon remained secret until once you exploded one you eventually had to tell some people what was going on.
"And we are conditioned by our own paradigms not to accept the possibility or probability of a highly advanced intelligent civilization coming here to visit us. You have evidence in the form of highly credible reports of objects being seen, of the entities inside these objects being seen. Yet, we look for a prosaic explanation and we throw out the bits and pieces of the evidence that doesn't meet our paradigm. So it is a self-keeping secret. You can conceal it in plain sight. It is political suicide to go and start hitting up intelligence agencies to get this information released. So, most of your members of Congress, and I know I’ve worked with a lot of them along that line, will balk and try not to do it. I can name you three members of Congress that were point blank asked to have a congressional inquiry on what happened here at Roswell…
"We have got to get the documentation as it exists in the Government files. We have got to get it released before it ultimately is destroyed. A good example is the Blue Fly and Moon Dust files. I had classified documents the Air Force acknowledged. When I got members of Congress to help me open up more files, they were immediately destroyed and I can prove this.
"Somewhere along the line, they may see that material and realize there is some very highly sensitive information that would have a damning effect upon the national security of United States should it become compromised. It needs to be further protected, to insure that there is only a limited access to that information to a small number of people. So small you can put them on a list of paper, on a piece of paper, and list them by name. Thus, you have the special access programs. The controls that were supposed to be put on the special access programs are not there. When Congress did their review of the way we protect documents, and the way we go ahead and implement our secrecy programs, they found that you had special access programs within special access programs — that is was essentially impossible to keep control of them all by Congress. And, I’m telling you right now; it is essentially impossible to keep control of them all.
"When it comes to UFOs, the same criteria applies. Therefore, only a small nucleus within the intelligence community, numbering less than a hundred — no, I’d suggest less than 50 — control all that information. It is not subject to congressional review or oversight at all. So, Congress needs to go ahead and ask the hard questions and convene a hearing."
or perhaps this man:
Admiral Lord Hill-Norton: Five-Star Admiral, Former Head of the British Ministry of Defense, July 2000
Lord Hill-Norton is a five-star Admiral and the former Head of the British Ministry of Defense who was kept in the dark about the UFO subject during his official capacities. In this short interview, he states that this subject has great significance and should no longer be denied and kept secret. He emphatically states, "…that there is a serious possibility that we are being visited — and have been visited for many years — by people from outer space, from other civilizations; that it behooves us to find out who they are, where they come from, and what they want. This should be the subject of rigorous scientific investigation, and not the subject of rubbishing by tabloid newspapers."
info:
The Disclosure Project is a non-profit research effort that has, since 1993, been identifying top-secret military, government and other witnesses to UFO and Extraterrestrial events.
To date, several hundred such witnesses have been identified throughout the world and spanning every branch of the armed services, the NRO, DIA, CIA, NASA, the former USSR, and other agencies and countries. Over 100 have been videotaped, thus far; 70 have been transcribed into edited testimony. A four hour videotape summary of testimony and an over 500 page briefing document is available that contains excerpts of this historic testimony.
The weight of this testimony, along with supporting government documents and other evidence, establishes beyond any doubt the reality of extraterrestrial life forms, UFOs, or extraterrestrial vehicles, and advanced energy and propulsion technologies resulting from the study of these vehicles.
source= http://www.disclosureproject.org/briefingpoints.htm
NO WITNESSES
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAWhat about these guys for starters...
Testimony that Explains the Secrecy
Brigadier General Stephen Lovekin: Army National Guard Reserves
Merle Shane McDow: US Navy Atlantic Command
Lt. Col. Charles Brown: US Air Force (Ret.)
"Dr. B"
Lance Corporal Jonathan Weygandt: US Marine Corps
Maj. George A. Filer, III: US Air Force (Ret.)
Nick Pope: British Ministry of Defense Official
Larry Warren: US Air Force, Security Officer
Sgt. Clifford Stone: US Army
Master Sgt. Dan Morris: US Air Force, NRO Operative
A.H.: Boeing Aerospace Employee
Officer Alan Godfrey: British Police
Sgt. Karl Wolf: US Air Force
Ms. Donna Hare: NASA Employee
Mr. John Maynard: DIA Official
Dr. Robert Wood: McDonnell Douglas Aerospace Engineer
Glen Dennis: NM UFO Crash Witness
Sgt. Leonard Pretko: US Air Force
Dr. Roberto Pinotti: Italian UFO expert
Dr. Paul Czysz: McDonnell Douglas Career Engineer
Astronaut Edgar Mitchell
John Callhan: FAA Head of Accidents and Investigations
Michael Smith: US Air Force Radar Controller
Franklin Carter: US Navy Radar Technician
Neil Daniels: United Airlines Pilot
Lt. Frederick Fox: US Navy Pilot
Captain Robert Salas: US Air Force, SAC Launch Controller
Prof. Robert Jacobs: US Air Force
Harry Allen Jordan: US Navy
James Kopf: US Navy Crypto Communications
Witness Testimony
Overview
Astronaut Edgar Mitchell: May 1998
Monsignor Corrado Balducci: September 2000
Radar and Pilot Cases
Introduction
FAA Division Chief John Callahan
Sgt. Chuck Sorrells: US Air Force (ret.)
Mr. Michael W. Smith: US Air Force
Commander Graham Bethune: US Navy (ret.)
Mr. Enrique Kolbeck: Senior Air Traffic Controller,
Dr. Richard Haines
Mr. Franklin Carter: US Navy
Neil Daniels: Airline Pilot
Sgt. Robert Blazina (ret.)
Lieutenant Frederick Marshall Fox: US Navy (ret.)
Captain Massimo Poggi
Lt. Bob Walker: US Army
Mr. Don Bockelman: US Army
SAC/Nuke
Introduction
Captain Robert Salas
Professor Robert Jacobs: Lt. US Air Force
Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson: US Air Force (ret.)
Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/AEC (ret.)
Harry Allen Jordan: US Navy
Mr. James Kopf: US Navy/ National Security Agency
Lieutenant Colonel Joe Wojtecki, US Air Force
Staff Sergeant Stoney Campbell: US Air Force
Government Insiders/ NASA/ Deep Insiders
Astronaut Gordon Cooper
Brigadier General Steven Lovekin, Esq.: Army National Guard Reserve
Merle Shane McDow: US Navy Atlantic Command
Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown: US Air Force (ret.), October
Dr. Carol Rosin
“Dr. B.”
Lance Corporal John Weygandt: U.S. Marine Corps,
Major A. Filer III: U.S. Air Force
Mr. Nick Pope: British Ministry Of Defense
Admiral Lord Hill-Norton: Five-Star Admiral, Former Head of the British Ministry of Defense
Security Officer Larry Warren: United States Air Force,
Captain Lori Rehfeldt
Sergeant Clifford Stone: United States Army
Major-General Vasily Alexeyev: Russian Air Force,
Master Sergeant Dan Morris: US Air Force/NRO Operative (ret.)
Mr. Don Phillips: Lockheed Skunkworks, USAF, and CIA Contractor
Captain Bill Uhouse: US Marine Corps (ret.)
Lieutenant Colonel John Williams: US Air Force (ret.)
Mr. Don Johnson
A.H.: Boeing Aerospace, December 2000
British Police Officer Alan Godfrey
Mr. Gordon Creighton: Former British Foreign Service Official
Sergeant Karl Wolfe: US Air Force
Donna Hare: Former NASA Employee
Mr. John Maynard: Defense Intelligence Agency (ret.)
Mr. Harland Bentley: US Army
Dr. Robert Wood: McDonnell Douglas Aerospace Engineer,
Dr. Alfred Webre: Senior Policy Analyst Stanford Research Institute
Denise McKenzie: Former SAIC employee
Mr. Paul H. Utz
Colonel Phillip J. Corso, Sr.: US Army (ret.)
Mr. Glen Dennis
Lieutenant Walter Haut: US Navy
Buck Sergeant Leonard Pretko: US Air Force
Mr. Dan Willis: US Navy
Dr. Roberto Pinotti
Technology/Science
Introduction
Mr. Mark McCandlish: US Air Force
Professor Paul Czysz
Dr. Hal Puthoff
David Hamilton: Department of Energy
Lieutenant Colonel Thomas E. Bearden: US Army (ret)
Dr. Eugene Mallove
Dr. Paul La Violette
Mr. Fred Threlfall: Royal Canadian Air Force
Dr. Ted Loder
Give me a break
do your homework before you make ignorant comments. You sound very much like a debunker. There is a fine line between a sceptic and a debunker but you sound like a debunker.You can talk amongst yourselves. just to close this thread for me anyway, here is a link to some of these people that you appear to have a problem believing exist. Enjoy
thttp://www.topsecrettestimony.com
Just click on the part that says "If you want to see a partial list of the witnesses, click here"
It seems this thread has changed course a little. It started with a scientifically based discussion on the existence of unintelligent life in our solar system, and with starman's input, turned toward a conspiracy theory over the existence of aliens and government coverups.
The names and references starman posted does not give any more credibility to his belief. The Disclosure Project and other sites dedicated to their biased ideals only reinforces my opinion that they are controlled by anti-government fanatics. I wish Magik was here, as he is the best at debunking theories like this.
Either way, this argument is based on emotion and not science.
The names and references starman posted does not give any more credibility to his belief. The Disclosure Project and other sites dedicated to their biased ideals only reinforces my opinion that they are controlled by anti-government fanatics. I wish Magik was here, as he is the best at debunking theories like this.
Either way, this argument is based on emotion and not science.
Okay, Starman, take a deep breath. Okay? You feel better? I have a suggestion, I know I may sound crazy, but you need to GO OUTSIDE for a bit. Get some air, meet some people, it's okay, they're not all out to get you. I think your paranoia is a bit extreme, man.
Starman, thankyou for your interesting, but completely unnecassary list of witnesses. Please go back and read my posts and please point out where i exactly stated that there were no witnesses to UFO phenomina. My question to you was how you were privy to unreported events. My point was that if they were unreported how on earth do you know about them? The only explaination is that you have developed telepathy.
Indeed by producing such a long list of witnesses you have quite adequetely proved my point - if there were such a conspiracy i doubt very much that the list you just compiled for us would be so long.
Your quote from Lord Hill-Norton is particuliarly telling: He admits to not knowing of any reports of a cover up. He then quite fairly states his belief that aliens could have visited us and if so should be investigated
This is the Head of the MOD from '71-'73 we are talking about here, and just because he doesn't know about any conspiracy doesn't make it a conspiracy!
Remember the lack of proof, doesn't necassary mean there is a conspiracy, it may just mean there isn't any proof.
I also find it worrying that whilst talking about government conspiracies, you say we aren't refering to politicians - are you under the impression we are living under a military Junta? But hang on The MOD are incharge of the military, and hasn't Lord Hill-Norton (a believer in the possibility of Aliens) just said there was no conspiracy? So if it isn't Politicians or the Military who are in charge of this government conspiracy, who is it? the cleaners?
You mention some secrets that were kept - but for how long? One of the examples you gave, The Manhattan Project, was kept secret for 3yrs. The NSA are so soo secret they have a website at www.nsa.gov. The NRO were kept secret for 31-32 yrs which isn't bad as secrets go, but they are just one agency, and they were only kept secret for 30 years... in a few years it'll be 60yrs ago Roswell supposedly took place and UFOs date from many years before that - your suggesting that a government who couldn't keep one agency secret for much more than 30yrs can keep a worldwide phenomina with thousands of witnesses secret for double that if not far far longer?
As i said before - reality check please
Do my homework? thats a trifle rich coming from someone who doesn't know the meaning of the word 'Fact'
Indeed by producing such a long list of witnesses you have quite adequetely proved my point - if there were such a conspiracy i doubt very much that the list you just compiled for us would be so long.
Your quote from Lord Hill-Norton is particuliarly telling: He admits to not knowing of any reports of a cover up. He then quite fairly states his belief that aliens could have visited us and if so should be investigated
This is the Head of the MOD from '71-'73 we are talking about here, and just because he doesn't know about any conspiracy doesn't make it a conspiracy!
Remember the lack of proof, doesn't necassary mean there is a conspiracy, it may just mean there isn't any proof.
I also find it worrying that whilst talking about government conspiracies, you say we aren't refering to politicians - are you under the impression we are living under a military Junta? But hang on The MOD are incharge of the military, and hasn't Lord Hill-Norton (a believer in the possibility of Aliens) just said there was no conspiracy? So if it isn't Politicians or the Military who are in charge of this government conspiracy, who is it? the cleaners?
You mention some secrets that were kept - but for how long? One of the examples you gave, The Manhattan Project, was kept secret for 3yrs. The NSA are so soo secret they have a website at www.nsa.gov. The NRO were kept secret for 31-32 yrs which isn't bad as secrets go, but they are just one agency, and they were only kept secret for 30 years... in a few years it'll be 60yrs ago Roswell supposedly took place and UFOs date from many years before that - your suggesting that a government who couldn't keep one agency secret for much more than 30yrs can keep a worldwide phenomina with thousands of witnesses secret for double that if not far far longer?
As i said before - reality check please
Do my homework? thats a trifle rich coming from someone who doesn't know the meaning of the word 'Fact'
they found some dead microbes on the earth's moon i believe.
"Instrument on NASA Rover Malfunctions
Thu Aug 7,12:37 AM ET Add Science - AP to My Yahoo!
By ANDREW BRIDGES, AP Science Writer
LOS ANGELES - An instrument aboard one of the two NASA (news - web sites) rovers en route to Mars has malfunctioned, prompting worries it could harm the robot's information-gathering ability, a scientist said Wednesday.
If left unfixed, the instrument could still determine the presence of iron-bearing minerals in the rocks and soil on the Martian surface, but not their relative abundance, said Steve Squyres, of Cornell University. Some of that information could be derived from the rover's other instruments, however.
Scientists hope that testing the minerals will help solve the riddle of whether Mars was ever a warmer, wetter place capable of sustaining life.
"We would be able to extract some science from the data — not everything, but some," said Squyres, lead scientist on the package of instruments carried on the rover, Spirit, and its twin, Opportunity.
Scientists do not understand the cause of the glitch, but have five months to come up with a remedy before the rover lands, Squyres said. Spirit is expected to make a Jan. 3 landing on Mars, followed by Opportunity on Jan. 24.
The instrument, called a Mossbauer spectrometer, malfunctioned during tests last week.
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration will continue to work on a long-distance fix to Spirit's instrument during the balance of its cruise to Mars.
"We will do the best we can to adjust the instrument so it delivers the maximum science," Squyres said.
The $800 million pair of rovers otherwise remain in excellent health, according to NASA."
First it was down to 70% power and now an instrument that could harm the robot's information-gathering ability, I wonder what will happen next?
I look forward to the next instalment especially near the time when it approaches the planet.
Thu Aug 7,12:37 AM ET Add Science - AP to My Yahoo!
By ANDREW BRIDGES, AP Science Writer
LOS ANGELES - An instrument aboard one of the two NASA (news - web sites) rovers en route to Mars has malfunctioned, prompting worries it could harm the robot's information-gathering ability, a scientist said Wednesday.
If left unfixed, the instrument could still determine the presence of iron-bearing minerals in the rocks and soil on the Martian surface, but not their relative abundance, said Steve Squyres, of Cornell University. Some of that information could be derived from the rover's other instruments, however.
Scientists hope that testing the minerals will help solve the riddle of whether Mars was ever a warmer, wetter place capable of sustaining life.
"We would be able to extract some science from the data — not everything, but some," said Squyres, lead scientist on the package of instruments carried on the rover, Spirit, and its twin, Opportunity.
Scientists do not understand the cause of the glitch, but have five months to come up with a remedy before the rover lands, Squyres said. Spirit is expected to make a Jan. 3 landing on Mars, followed by Opportunity on Jan. 24.
The instrument, called a Mossbauer spectrometer, malfunctioned during tests last week.
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration will continue to work on a long-distance fix to Spirit's instrument during the balance of its cruise to Mars.
"We will do the best we can to adjust the instrument so it delivers the maximum science," Squyres said.
The $800 million pair of rovers otherwise remain in excellent health, according to NASA."
First it was down to 70% power and now an instrument that could harm the robot's information-gathering ability, I wonder what will happen next?
I look forward to the next instalment especially near the time when it approaches the planet.
okay we are getting nowhere again and all i wanted to do is see what you think about the possibility of life on mars... i shall no longer post on this ever confusing subject.
I would have thought that the part about the "Scientists hope that testing the minerals will help solve the riddle of whether Mars was ever a warmer, wetter place capable of sustaining life." was a relevent point in coming to the conclusion of the answer that you seek?
My assumption on answering the question of "whether there is life on Mars" is to be based on what criteria? Ignoring the data loss due to malfunctioning mars probes? Only analysisng the data that is available ?Hence not being able to rule out certain environmental reasoning or base it on the data that is currently available but is not the final supposition?
My assumption on answering the question of "whether there is life on Mars" is to be based on what criteria? Ignoring the data loss due to malfunctioning mars probes? Only analysisng the data that is available ?Hence not being able to rule out certain environmental reasoning or base it on the data that is currently available but is not the final supposition?
you lost me.
Not saying that there isn't more data to be retrieved, and if something comes up to change our perspective, then our perspective will change. I'm just saying that based on current information, that's what I believe.
you really lost me.
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