Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Trying to understand Atheists

mako

Sep 16 2005, 05:50 PM

You guys know that I am an eclectic reader, that I visit myriad and varied websites (I have even been to Pastor Visser”s). I found this on another website (atheist) and thought that it would be good for us all to try to understand their belief set:

Note: This is taken from a Blog (The Libertarian Defender). That explains the conversational writing style. Also note, on the blog itself, a photo is included. However, in case the size of the photo poses a problem, I will omit it here.

The True Face of Atheism

Today's topic has to do with the malicious way religious activists try to define atheists. If you listen to small-minded Christians, atheists are hateful people, in denial about God, with "father issues," who are a danger to society and who should be marginalized.

Some salient quotes:

"Atheists are not fit to be parents; they are not fit to be employed in any portion of any society; they are not fit to be any kind of leaders in any society, nor are they fit to serve in any area of public trust. Atheism makes every person who embraces it unfit for any good work."

"Atheists are not even fit to live. They have forfeited the right to life by virtue of being unfit for any good thing."

"Every atheist should be regarded as high criminals by all governments who have no right to live on the earth."

On the same site, a headline screams: "ATHEISTS ARE SLAVES OF SATAN"

"So now you realize that it is atheists (and other nonbelievers) who are in favor of putting their "terminally ill" parents to death; who are in favor of murdering innocent human embryos and fetuses; who are perpetuating homosexuality, lesbianism, bestiality, pornography, pedophilia and etc; who are responsible for all the violence in the movie industry; who are responsible for all the smut on the web; who bear false witness against the existence of God; who bear the false testimony that the earth came into being by a cataclysmic explosion; who bear the false testimony of evolution; who bear the false testimony that man descended from the ape; who worship the creature rather than the Creator; who are responsible for all the moral decline in America and the world community."

I'm tired of letting people like this define me, and my fellows in rationality. I'm 22 years old. I've never smoked. I've never taken any illicit drug. In high school, I never so much as had a detention. I am a Summa Cum Laude college graduate. I was associated with my university's Honors College. At present, I have a full time job and support myself. I have a wonderful relationship with my family: parents, brother, extended relatives and cousins. I'm an animal lover, and though I am not a vegetarian, I would never hunt for sport, as I oppose the recreational activity of killing. I've maintained friendships for many years, including with my best friend (with who's dog I appear) for around 14 years. I've never been on the wrong side of the law and have never done harm to anybody.

And I'm not alone.

The above description probably fits, or comes close to fitting, tens of thousands of atheists all over the world. People like those quoted earlier damn us because we reject their fictitious God and his arbitrary moral strictures, ignoring the fact that we live happy, productive and socially-responsible lives. By and large, the secular community is a force of good in the world. That cannot really be said for the religious community.

Pat Robertson:

"If I could just get a nuclear device inside Foggy Bottom, I think that's the answer"

"If [Hugo Chavez] thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war."

Jerry Falwell (on the 9/11 attacks):

"And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'."

Now, I know that not all religious people are scumbags (though Robertson and Falwell are indeed scumbags of the lowest order), but I do believe religion nurtures views such as those. As such, it is RELIGION, not atheism, that is a pernicious influence on human societies. We should fear the religious, not the secular, among us.

Never again should we allow religious activists to negatively define us. It's time to take a stand, proudly admit who we are and try to make the world a better place in spite of religion.

I, for one, am ready to put forth the effort.

~TLD

Taken from: The Libertarian Defender.

I would like to point out that he seems to be a little more prejudiced against “Theists” than our crop of Atheists, but it is a good look at how the group as a whole feels.

zandore

Sep 16 2005, 06:02 PM

That Mako was a bit of an EYE OPENER!
Can you PM the web site to me?

Guardsman Bass

Sep 16 2005, 06:10 PM

Although the truly fundamentalist christians who say this kind of stuff are not the majority of Americans, I do agree (as an atheist) that our culture looks down upon us, sort of as like a weird minority group.

101

Sep 16 2005, 06:22 PM

that is mean That atheists can't be parents. Very very mean! (the qoutes)

But that young man is right atheists still are people and have morals but they are based on real life and not necessarly the Bible. Morals come from both the real world and the Bible. You can correlate the two and have a mixture. It is way of growing and changing.

I hope Christians did not say those mean things because that is not nice.

GreyWeather

Sep 16 2005, 06:52 PM

I don't agree with that at all. many people who commit those crimes are also religious believers, not only atheists - but they obvisually didn't decide to include that did they

i could understand this if it was written 200 years ago when 99.9% of the people were christian. but in a society where a large popularity of people have chosen to reject religion which there are many reasons to why said popularity don't believe in religion, this kind of talk is ridicules.

people who chose to follow religion chose to.
people who chose not to follow religion chose to.

but how this/or they stated that atheists should die, not have children, be punished ect is exceedingly disgusting . I haven't come across atheists who protest agains't religious people saying these things. this guy should re-read his holy book, he clearly doesn't understand it

stillcrazy

Sep 16 2005, 07:09 PM

Great post mako!

I detest 'religion' in all it's forms and rituals. With that said, I feel that a person's beliefs and faith or lack of either are a private matter. It is neither to be used as an excuse or a justification for actions against others.

I personally don't see atheist as evil or different than anyone else. But that's just me.

101

Sep 16 2005, 07:13 PM

Yes they should read the Bible. We shouldn't be mean to others even if we disagrere with them. I am duisgusted by this info. I can't believe anyone would treat others and say only atheists like porno. Okay then why does a christian man have porno? It is all the same we are all humans,.

hyperactive

Sep 16 2005, 07:37 PM

i have heard of these types of comments before. I have never encountered anything like that in canada though. It is sad and ironic to watch the "holier than thou" act just like that which they claim to be the opposite of. I rolled on the floor laughing when i was in california at a public radio broadcast that stated similar views (although not as aggressively).

zandore

Sep 16 2005, 09:40 PM

QUOTE(101)

I hope Christians did not say those mean things because that is not nice.

I know you are not like that 101 but do you realise that it is some of your Christian leaders that are saying this stuff?

jpalz

Sep 17 2005, 04:45 AM

Let's see...

QUOTE

Atheists are not fit to be parents; they are not fit to be employed in any portion of any society; they are not fit to be any kind of leaders in any society, nor are they fit to serve in any area of public trust. Atheism makes every person who embraces it unfit for any good work

You gotta be kidding me. Actually this one made me kinda laugh. How can they say such bull****? Where I'm going to is, what would Jesus done when finding an Atheist: would he have called him unfit for any good work, or regarded them as high criminals, or say "they are not fit to live"? Nope. Actually he would have done the opposite. So stating that is just hypocrisy (or whatever you write it, never been good at Grammar

).

The guy is right when he says that Atheists live just like the guy next door, but I don't agree with everything he states. Although that should be discussed in another thread wouldn't it?

Tangerine Sheri

Sep 17 2005, 06:16 AM

QUOTE(mako @ Sep 16 2005, 10:50 AM)

You guys know that I am an eclectic reader, that I visit myriad and varied websites (I have even been to Pastor Visser”s). I found this on another website (atheist) and thought that it would be good for us all to try to understand their belief set:

Note: This is taken from a Blog (The Libertarian Defender). That explains the conversational writing style. Also note, on the blog itself, a photo is included. However, in case the size of the photo poses a problem, I will omit it here.

The True Face of Atheism

Today's topic has to do with the malicious way religious activists try to define atheists. If you listen to small-minded Christians, atheists are hateful people, in denial about God, with "father issues," who are a danger to society and who should be marginalized.

Some salient quotes:

"Atheists are not fit to be parents; they are not fit to be employed in any portion of any society; they are not fit to be any kind of leaders in any society, nor are they fit to serve in any area of public trust. Atheism makes every person who embraces it unfit for any good work."

"Atheists are not even fit to live. They have forfeited the right to life by virtue of being unfit for any good thing."

"Every atheist should be regarded as high criminals by all governments who have no right to live on the earth."

On the same site, a headline screams: "ATHEISTS ARE SLAVES OF SATAN"

"So now you realize that it is atheists (and other nonbelievers) who are in favor of putting their "terminally ill" parents to death; who are in favor of murdering innocent human embryos and fetuses; who are perpetuating homosexuality, lesbianism, bestiality, pornography, pedophilia and etc; who are responsible for all the violence in the movie industry; who are responsible for all the smut on the web; who bear false witness against the existence of God; who bear the false testimony that the earth came into being by a cataclysmic explosion; who bear the false testimony of evolution; who bear the false testimony that man descended from the ape; who worship the creature rather than the Creator; who are responsible for all the moral decline in America and the world community."

I'm tired of letting people like this define me, and my fellows in rationality. I'm 22 years old. I've never smoked. I've never taken any illicit drug. In high school, I never so much as had a detention. I am a Summa Cum Laude college graduate. I was associated with my university's Honors College. At present, I have a full time job and support myself. I have a wonderful relationship with my family: parents, brother, extended relatives and cousins. I'm an animal lover, and though I am not a vegetarian, I would never hunt for sport, as I oppose the recreational activity of killing. I've maintained friendships for many years, including with my best friend (with who's dog I appear) for around 14 years. I've never been on the wrong side of the law and have never done harm to anybody.

And I'm not alone.

The above description probably fits, or comes close to fitting, tens of thousands of atheists all over the world. People like those quoted earlier damn us because we reject their fictitious God and his arbitrary moral strictures, ignoring the fact that we live happy, productive and socially-responsible lives. By and large, the secular community is a force of good in the world. That cannot really be said for the religious community.

Pat Robertson:

"If I could just get a nuclear device inside Foggy Bottom, I think that's the answer"

"If [Hugo Chavez] thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war."

Jerry Falwell (on the 9/11 attacks):

"And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'."

Now, I know that not all religious people are scumbags (though Robertson and Falwell are indeed scumbags of the lowest order), but I do believe religion nurtures views such as those. As such, it is RELIGION, not atheism, that is a pernicious influence on human societies. We should fear the religious, not the secular, among us.

Never again should we allow religious activists to negatively define us. It's time to take a stand, proudly admit who we are and try to make the world a better place in spite of religion.

I, for one, am ready to put forth the effort.

~TLD

Taken from: The Libertarian Defender.

I would like to point out that he seems to be a little more prejudiced against “Theists” than our crop of Atheists, but it is a good look at how the group as a whole feels.

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Mako who would beleive stuff like that?? Humanity is changing and rapidly gone are the dogmas that religion has put into place, the mentality that has created these stupid beleifs are nearing the last legs of there days Farwell is facing the white light so is Pat Robertson he said some years back that the purple teletubbie Tinkie winkie was Gay and therefor subliminially going to create gay children, I mean come on are people actually listening to these guys??? who was it that Larry flint said was having sex with his mother do you think his comments have anything to do with that???I can't remeber if it was Robertson or Farweell I think Farwell does anyone remember??? Namaste sheri

Paranoid Android

Sep 17 2005, 07:11 AM

Interesting read. Great. Though the stereotype works both ways.

I go to the pub for a drink, and in the middle of chatting with a guy while waiting for a drink, religion comes up (they ask what I'm doing tomorrow - Sunday - and I tell them I go to church on Sunday's. Then comes the standard "what are you doing drinking at a pub - you're not a REAL Christian are you. Christians don't go to pubs. They read the Bible all the time, they are stuffy, they are self-righteous, pompous asses who condemn others for their beliefs. You can't be a Christian if you're here".

So yeah, I guess there are stereotypes which aren't correct in all walks of life.

On a similar note, the poster's correct about Pat Robertson and the others he mentioned. Hateful creatures they are. Thank God they don't represent all Christians.

Regards, PA

saucy

Sep 17 2005, 03:03 PM

Hmmm, interesting article. It is true that both sides judge each other and we shouldn't. I hate religion as well. I view religion as the man-made garbage that came after the bible was written.

LarryOldtimer

Sep 17 2005, 11:52 PM

Wow! I would seem, according to that writer, that one might just as well have been a Jew in medieval times (and in some places in the world today) as an atheist today. Or for that matter, a Christian, in countries run by Islamo-whackos. What is it that was said? "Whatever you do unto the least of these, you do unto me," I do believe. It is sort of like when Bush the Elder stated that an atheist couldn't be a patriot. What nonsense that was and is. Perhaps these "Christians" should go back and read their own New Testament . . . it seems that they didn't learn much of what Jesus taught the first time, if ever, they read it.

So, if these people find themselves injured and lying in a ditch somewhere, are they going to refuse the aid of a "good Samaritan" (Samaritans were despised by the Jews of the time as much as are atheists by the writers of this nonsense) who is an atheist and wait for a "good Christian" to come along and help them? Betcha not!

EmpressV

Sep 18 2005, 12:33 AM

This reminds me of the rural community where I live. I don't know if some of you remember awhile ago I told a story about a separation of church & state issue where I defened an atheist woman. Well, I had been involved in my community for many years and knew everyone and I knew them. I was pretty well liked and respected. When I became involved with the separation of church & state issue is when I announced that I was a nonbeliever. You would have thought that one of these narrow minded fools would have written that garbage in the OP. I couldn't believe the way people treated me. The local catholic priest was telling his parishioners that "satan had come to our town" in his sermons every week. I had a youth club through the parks & rec and some of the parents pulled their kids out of the club. I have to admit though most people were great. They had no issue with my nonbelief. Eventually some of the others learned a valuable lesson about judging and we are back on good terms but believe me it was a difficult patch to mend. Some of the parishioners quit going to church because they found it to be so ridiculous. With respect to the prest he is about 80+ yrs old and should have retired a long time ago.
It goes to show you though just how indoctrinated and opinionated some people still are even in the 21st century.

Thanato

Sep 18 2005, 03:16 AM

ATHIESM (spelling) WOOOOOOT!!!!

Ok, you might not of guesd but im an athiest, well sorta i have my own personal belifes but i dont belive in a god etc. Anywho thoughs comments are funny, i mean honestly is that all Conservitive America has to offer (i know not all conservatives are like that its just they fall into that)

Anyway i see organised religion as backwards. I think christianity, well finatical christianity, is more like a cult but hey thats just me. I have good friends who are very religus, one of my friends very bright guy went to the national science fair in Vancuver, who belives the world is 6000 years old.

I say everyone should belive what they belive in as long as it dosnt boarder or cross the line as a hate crime. BURN THE CHRISTIANS err did i say that out loud lol j/k

~Thanato

Potholer

Sep 18 2005, 03:57 AM

I don't think there is much wrong with religion - it's just the extremists that mess it up. You've got extreme religious people (and specifically of christian denominations - most other religions have a tolerant policy on other religions) denouncing the values of other people. At the same time extreme athiests who are ridiculing the beliefs of others. Everyone seems to be missing the point that religion is about a personal belief that has nothing to do with anyone else and however they perceive it. There's more to say but I can't think how to put it into words right now.

QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Sep 17 2005, 06:16 AM)

Mako who would beleive stuff like that?? Humanity is changing and rapidly gone are the dogmas that religion has put into place, the mentality that has created these stupid beleifs are nearing the last legs of there days
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Many people would believe it. I don't think we've changed at all, really - there are still people convinced of how right they are and how wrong everyone else is. It's exactly how it has been all through history. The Persians thought the Greeks were wrong and the Greeks thought the Persians were wrong. Queen Elizabeth I thought moderate protestantism was the way to go in medieval England but the Gaelic, the Pope, the Puritans and a fair few others thought she was wrong. Bush thinks he's right and terrorists sure as hell think they're right.

Nothing has changed. We may be more aware of our surroundings but we are just as stubborn and that is not likely to change because it is human nature.

Paranoid Android

Sep 18 2005, 06:25 AM

Potholer - in my my experience, there's no such thing as a tolerant extremist. That's why they're called extremists!

stillcrazy

Sep 18 2005, 08:11 AM

QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Sep 17 2005, 10:25 PM)

Potholer - in my my experience, there's no such thing as a tolerant extremist. That's why they're called extremists!
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That comment is an oxy-moron. But very true.

In the many years I have been on this revolving rock, I have seen the "Religious" folks quote the bible like it was their family history. In fact they more than likely knew more bible verses than family history. But never do they understand that taking a single passage or two and use it to condemn others, that they are in fact going against their own faith. That wacko hack preacher that likes to demonstrate at funerals of dead gays is a very good example. His Church, mostly his family have bastardized a teaching to suit their concept of a religion.

I cannot speak with any knowledge of the Islamic Koran as I am still studying it, but I feel that there are those in Islam that do the same.

As for those godless heathen Atheist (JOKE FOLKS) Let them believe on not believe what they will. What skin is it of any ones nose if they choose to say there is no god. Not having a belief in something does not matter, it's who the person is that's important.

Now for a parting shot at some who go ballistic when folks talk about religion or faith here at UM.

YO! The Name of the Forum IS Unexplained Mysteries. Religion in all its forms and faiths qualify as an unexplained mystery. I find it interesting that some can accept a persons belief in ghost and aliens (which may or may not exist) yet slam and attack those who believe in a god or gods. If you don't want to talk about faith, ignore it, go to the jokes and humor pages. If you don't want to be ridiculed for your beliefs or lack of beliefs, don't do it to others.

Rant over.

(OMG I'm starting to sound like a Mod

)

Potholer

Sep 18 2005, 08:45 AM

QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Sep 18 2005, 06:25 AM)

Potholer - in my my experience, there's no such thing as a tolerant extremist. That's why they're called extremists!
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Whoops, sorry, I think my mind was trying to write out two different things that came out as one.

I meant to say that most religions are fairly tolerant. I know for a fact (from my muslim friend and from history classes), for example, that the Muslim religion accepts various aspects of Christianity and Judaism whereas Christianity seems to be denoucing others all over the place and is The One True Religion with no leeway.

Then again, extremist Muslims promote the abuse of women and dying/killing others so who's to say is the 'better' one? At least the extreme Christians are just vocal and a bit annoying rather than killers.

Of course, I may be exaggerating and speaking in sweepign generalisations. I have some lovely Christian friends who couldn't care less what religions the rest of us follow, though wouldn't mind if we took an interest. And my Muslim friend has a rant every so often about how the extremists of her religion give it a horribly horribly bad name.

Purplos

Sep 18 2005, 12:39 PM

Reflections on the article: An athiest saying that religious people are dangerous fanatics that spread fear and hate is just as bad as a Christian saying that an athiest should not be a parent and has no morals. The athiest is doing what he is acusing the Christian of doing!

How can a person complain that "They judge us and call us evil," and then turn around and judge 'them' and call them evil? A ridiculous argument.

EmpressV

Sep 18 2005, 12:52 PM

For some reason the christians seem to be much more hostile toward atheists. Atheists usually speak up when the religious world interferes with the world at large. The religious dictating their ideologies and expecting everyone to go along with them. I don't know any atheists that kill people for not believing like they do or taking away the human rights of people who live a different lifestyle. I think the bulk of the intollerance lays squarely on the shoulders of the religious community.

Paranoid Android

Sep 18 2005, 12:56 PM

QUOTE(curiousity @ Sep 18 2005, 10:52 PM)

I don't know any atheists that kill people for not believing like they do or taking away the human rights of people who live a different lifestyle. I think the bulk of the intollerance lays squarely on the shoulders of the religious community.
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Is that so? I think you'll find it just the same within the atheist community. Though intolerant atheists are usually simply labeled as "intolerant" and not associated with their worldview, whereas an intolerant Christian is labled a "fundamental extremist".

Regards, PA

EmpressV

Sep 18 2005, 01:07 PM

So PA you don't think that fundies are a lot more intollerent than a nonbeliever. I beg to differ. The religious community is a lot more vocal about their opinions and much more brutal when expressing it.

Paranoid Android

Sep 18 2005, 01:31 PM

If I walk down to the local pub I'm likely to see people in their mid-30's with mullet cuts, footy shorts, singlets, drinking VB, saying F***ing Poofta's to anyone who happens to look a little different.

The only difference between these people and religious fundies is that the man at the pub won't be associated as being "atheist".

The intolerance level is just the same - indeed if the person is a big enough poofta (in other words, more "different" that most), he's likely to be jumped in the alley outside the pub (that's unless something worse happens).

If you can tell me where the difference is, I'll gladly apologize.

Regards, PA

Oh, sorry for the derogatory use of the word "poofta". It was an example of what someone else might say and is in no way a reflection of my own beliefs towards the gay community.

Super Pancake

Sep 18 2005, 01:54 PM

Hold up the man in the pub is an atheist! People in pubs are atheist and they call others poofta!

How did you know the guy was an atheist and is coming after poofta's because their not atheist or something else?

Down under what is the stats of people who believe in God and those who don't.

In America 98% of the population believes in a God or a force, so 2% have no god so if we used that example here most likely it would be one believer in a pub beating up another believer because he a poofta.

EmpressV

Sep 18 2005, 02:11 PM

pancake I think your stats are a little off. The percentage of believers is more likely to be 70% and NB's are 30%. The gap is closing rapidly.

hyperactive

Sep 18 2005, 02:28 PM

QUOTE

As for those godless heathen Atheist (JOKE FOLKS) Let them believe on not believe what they will. What skin is it of any ones nose if they choose to say there is no god. Not having a belief in something does not matter, it's who the person is that's important.

not believing in "gods" does not mean one is bereft of beliefs.

a mistake of many "followers of a faith" is do exactly what the OP was showing: a great lack of understanding of the world/universe, their own beliefs, and the beliefs of others.

Super Pancake

Sep 18 2005, 02:51 PM

QUOTE(curiousity @ Sep 18 2005, 09:11 AM)

pancake I think your stats are a little off. The percentage of believers is more likely to be 70% and NB's are 30%. The gap is closing rapidly.
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The stat I posted is almost a 2 years old. When you say NB, you mean Atheist or people who are not religious.

whoa182

Sep 18 2005, 03:03 PM

How many people or christians are getting saved by technology or drugs that athiest scientists created?

One could say MILLIONS or BILLIONS of people.

I am what someone would call an athiest... Yet I am the total opposite of what was said on by that person.

- I want to be a doctor and save lives
- I donate to charities such as Cancer research UK and Donating $25,000 to Mprize to help people live longer and healthier lives.
- I've never been on the wrong side of the law
- I do whatever I can to help family and friends
- I look out for the young ones in my family when I see people intoxicating them in smoke ( they believe in god )

and more !

I don't need some belief in a god to know what is good. I don't have to be told by a book to do good things in life.

We all know that the type of thinking from people like the person that did that blog is bs.

I appreciate life.

EmpressV

Sep 18 2005, 03:08 PM

QUOTE(Super Pancake @ Sep 18 2005, 10:51 AM)

QUOTE(curiousity @ Sep 18 2005, 09:11 AM)

pancake I think your stats are a little off. The percentage of believers is more likely to be 70% and NB's are 30%. The gap is closing rapidly.
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The stat I posted is almost a 2 years old. When you say NB, you mean Atheist or people who are not religious.
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Atheists, agnostics, nonbelievers.
But if you add them to the nonreligious the numbers are staggering. You can always tell when the world starts leaning away from religion the religious begin to hang on for dear life by their claws. The prostletizing starts and the religious leaders begin to assert more pressure on society. The only thing is that now people are wise to them and their ideas are out of touch with the real world. They can't be taken seriously these days because they are fanatics with an agenda. The religious leaders of today are a dying group because they are killing themselves in the eyes of society with their ridiculous statements.

zandore

Sep 18 2005, 04:11 PM

QUOTE(stillcrazy @ Sep 18 2005, 04:11 AM)

QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Sep 17 2005, 10:25 PM)

Potholer - in my my experience, there's no such thing as a tolerant extremist. That's why they're called extremists!
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That comment is an oxy-moron. But very true.

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If that is true what do you call the Amish.....Militant?

Paranoid Android

Sep 19 2005, 03:07 AM

QUOTE(Super Pancake @ Sep 18 2005, 11:54 PM)

Hold up the man in the pub is an atheist! People in pubs are atheist and they call others poofta!

How did you know the guy was an atheist and is coming after poofta's because their not atheist or something else?

I was using this as an example. Note my earlier post in this topic and how I was at a pub and someone said I can't be a Christian and sit at a pub. So what were they then? Obviously not Christian. Probably not Muslim, Mormon, Buddhist. Maybe they weren't Atheist. Perhaps simply Agnostic. So in that case we have the case of the Agnostic beating up someone simply because they are different (not necessarily because they are gay - out in the Western Suburbs of Sydney, anyone who looks/acts differently is automatically a "poofta")

QUOTE(Super Pancake @ Sep 18 2005, 11:54 PM)

Down under what is the stats of people who believe in God and those who don't.

In America 98% of the population believes in a God or a force, so 2% have no god so if we used that example here most likely it would be one believer in a pub beating up another believer because he a poofta.
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The point was it's someone beating up someone else because they are different from what they are. Sometimes a Christian in a pub is classified as "different".

But if it makes you feel better or safer to ignore the fact that there are extremists all over and it's not just in religion, then who am I to shatter that belief.

Regards, PA

LarryOldtimer

Sep 19 2005, 04:38 AM

It matters not what is written in any "Holy Book". The only thing which really defines a religion is how it is practiced by those who claim to be of that religion. The only time I get intolerant is when others try to shove their beliefs down my throat, and that I won't put up with at all.

Super Pancake

Sep 19 2005, 09:46 AM

QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Sep 18 2005, 10:07 PM)

The point was it's someone beating up someone else because they are different from what they are. Sometimes a Christian in a pub is classified as "different".
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O.K.

QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Sep 18 2005, 10:07 PM)

But if it makes you feel better or safer to ignore the fact that there are extremists all over and it's not just in religion, then who am I to shatter that belief.
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I think everybody has tolerance issues, I just wanted to know where you were going with that pub thing, it kind of sucks some christians can't get a beer at a bar.

EmpressV

Sep 19 2005, 01:48 PM

All of this boils down to a sterotype. The guy in the pub was probably just classifying you the way he was taught. You should have asked him if he was a believer. Then you wouldn't be sitting here speculating on what he was, you'd know for sure. Besides there are extremists within every group but don't assume everyone in a pub or people that commit hate crimes are automatically atheist.

zandore

Sep 19 2005, 02:20 PM

QUOTE(LarryOldtimer @ Sep 19 2005, 12:38 AM)

It matters not what is written in any "Holy Book". The only thing which really defines a religion is how it is practiced by those who claim to be of that religion. The only time I get intolerant is when others try to shove their beliefs down my throat, and that I won't put up with at all.

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Add to that: and when they act like it is the only religion.

Paranoid Android

Sep 20 2005, 12:00 AM

QUOTE(curiousity @ Sep 19 2005, 11:48 PM)

All of this boils down to a sterotype. The guy in the pub was probably just classifying you the way he was taught. You should have asked him if he was a believer. Then you wouldn't be sitting here speculating on what he was, you'd know for sure. Besides there are extremists within every group but don't assume everyone in a pub or people that commit hate crimes are automatically atheist.
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I never claimed everyone in a pub WERE atheists. I go to the pub too you know. I never claimed people who commit hate crimes WERE atheist either. My point was that these hate crimes are committed because people believe their way is the right way and being different is being wrong. Now - how is this different to a religious extremist? It's not - that's the long and short of it. It's just that those who commit this act are not classified by their religious belief.

If it's in the newspaper, you won't see "Agnostic fanatic moves against minority group", but make this hate crime done by a religious person, the headline might read "Religious fanatics move against minority group".

Am I making myself clear?

Regards, PA

eveningsky339

Sep 20 2005, 12:08 AM

QUOTE

On the same site, a headline screams: "ATHEISTS ARE SLAVES OF "

That made me laugh for five minutes straight.

LarryOldtimer

Sep 20 2005, 03:36 AM

QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Sep 19 2005, 05:00 PM)

QUOTE(curiousity @ Sep 19 2005, 11:48 PM)

All of this boils down to a sterotype. The guy in the pub was probably just classifying you the way he was taught. You should have asked him if he was a believer. Then you wouldn't be sitting here speculating on what he was, you'd know for sure. Besides there are extremists within every group but don't assume everyone in a pub or people that commit hate crimes are automatically atheist.
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I never claimed everyone in a pub WERE atheists. I go to the pub too you know. I never claimed people who commit hate crimes WERE atheist either. My point was that these hate crimes are committed because people believe their way is the right way and being different is being wrong. Now - how is this different to a religious extremist? It's not - that's the long and short of it. It's just that those who commit this act are not classified by their religious belief.

If it's in the newspaper, you won't see "Agnostic fanatic moves against minority group", but make this hate crime done by a religious person, the headline might read "Religious fanatics move against minority group".

Am I making myself clear?

Regards, PA
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I don't recall when a bunch of atheists got together in a group to harass or lynch others who thought differently than they did or were perceived as different. I don't recall when atheists got together to drive others out of a neighborhood either. The fact is, atheists don't get together all that much anyway, for anything. I have never received a single flyer, or seen a single advertisement of any meetings of atheists. Can't say the same of any religion, though.

Paranoid Android

Sep 20 2005, 09:39 AM

You're missing my point Larry. The fact is, an extremist is an extremist, no matter under what guise they go, or even if they have a guise.

As I said, if it makes you feel safer to believe that only religious fundamentalists commit hate crimes, then feel free to do so.

Regards, PA

mako

Sep 20 2005, 11:58 AM

QUOTE

My point was that these hate crimes are committed because people believe their way is the right way and being different is being wrong. Now - how is this different to a religious extremist?

I have to agree with you on this! *Arggh, my heart, my heart! - clutches chest staggers to phone to call EMTs- that's what I get for agreeing with PA*

QUOTE

As I said, if it makes you feel safer to believe that only religious fundamentalists commit hate crimes, then feel free to do so.

I can see Larry's point, Atheists, Agnostics, etc are generally a laid back group and seldom tend to produce extremists. Howerer, when we look at someone like Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma City bombing), a man who did not seem to act from a religious perspective, it seems that there can be non-religious fanatics. There is the fact that he was a "lapsed" Catholic and the folks that he interacted with were "Christian" militia (notice PA that I put Christian in quotes, this shows that I don't blame the religion for this particular group of loonies), does bring to question if there were religious reasons buried deeply behind his actions, so deeply that even he wasn't aware of them. Still, I can accept the concept of non-religious fanatics - Communism bred quite a few in it's heyday!

night shade

Sep 20 2005, 12:32 PM

QUOTE(101 @ Sep 16 2005, 06:22 PM)

that is mean That atheists can't be parents. Very very mean! (the qoutes)

But that young man is right atheists still are people and have morals but they are based on real life and not necessarly the Bible. Morals come from both the real world and the Bible. You can correlate the two and have a mixture. It is way of growing and changing.

I hope Christians did not say those mean things because that is not nice.
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totally agreed, im an atheist and i have my reason, just because i dont believe in an imaginary thing doesnt make me a cant-be-parent, what kinda s**t is that? did you get that from a cristian website or what?

zandore

Sep 20 2005, 01:41 PM

QUOTE

did you get that from a cristian website or what?

Those are quote's of Christian's from a atheist (I believe) web site.

I can PM the web site to you.

Baku

Sep 20 2005, 01:49 PM

QUOTE(mako @ Sep 16 2005, 09:50 PM)

However, in case the size of the photo poses a problem, I will omit it here.

The True Face of Atheism

Today's topic has to do with the malicious way religious activists try to define atheists. If you listen to small-minded Christians, atheists are hateful people, in denial about God, with "father issues," who are a danger to society and who should be marginalized.

Some salient quotes:

"Atheists are not fit to be parents; they are not fit to be employed in any portion of any society; they are not fit to be any kind of leaders in any society, nor are they fit to serve in any area of public trust. Atheism makes every person who embraces it unfit for any good work."

"Atheists are not even fit to live. They have forfeited the right to life by virtue of being unfit for any good thing."

"Every atheist should be regarded as high criminals by all governments who have no right to live on the earth."

On the same site, a headline screams: "ATHEISTS ARE SLAVES OF SATAN"

And they say atheists are agressive, yeah right. This is all nonsense!

zandore

Sep 20 2005, 01:54 PM

QUOTE(Baku)

And they say atheists are agressive, yeah right.

All you have to do is look at history and see just who is agressive.

In the name of religion.

Paranoid Android

Sep 21 2005, 02:13 AM

QUOTE(zandore @ Sep 20 2005, 11:54 PM)

QUOTE(Baku)

And they say atheists are agressive, yeah right.

All you have to do is look at history and see just who is agressive.

In the name of religion.

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And you believe if there was no religion this wouldn't have happened?

I'd imagine if there was no such thing as religion people would use something else to further their own, selfish goals and ambitions. That's human nature I'm afraid.

Regards, PA

GIDEON MAGE

Sep 21 2005, 04:13 AM

"imagine no religion" doesn't mean no god.

zandore

Sep 21 2005, 02:15 PM

QUOTE(PA)

And you believe if there was no religion this wouldn't have happened?

The fact that a religion professing to having a loving God

is one of the most agressive religions to date.

QUOTE

I'd imagine if there was no such thing as religion people would use something else to further their own, selfish goals and ambitions. That's human nature I'm afraid.

So is it in human nature to worship what ever deity that is handy.

QUOTE(GIDEON)

"imagine no religion" doesn't mean no god.

????

GIDEON MAGE

Sep 22 2005, 04:49 AM

i just thought a quote from john lennon was needed.