Well thank you, I really appriciate you saying that and hearing that NME said that, I highly respect his opinion as well and when I had my own questionable photos, he is the only one I trusted to look at them and give me an honest, objective opinion. I like your posts and the way you question things and I am glad you are a member here.

Thank you.

What would make the dust particles fly around so fast? Was the video sped up?

yeah, it could have been sped up a little just so you could see the dark apparition better.

YEah that's cool . Did You see the one where they are in the lighthouse attic and the chair moves across the room?

that was awsome

Ah, the TAPS video is not sped up, they even state that in their analysis. The figure like... floating backwards really fast, then RUNS forwards, the caped figure is 4 feet tall and the orbs... I dunno, I was watching the video for about and hour trying to reason if an air current would do that. But you can see the whole figure if you look closly.

it is a very drafty building, it could have been a breeze and I believe it is just a lot of dust

What would the dust reflect off of? It's not like the place was lighted, it was a nightvision camera. Also the cloth hanging in the backround would probably move too.

I don't know then. but dust can be moved around much easier than a cloth, it would take only a very light breeze, but then there is still the reflection issue.

True, but the blast is so powerful and quick...

true. I just don't know what else to suggest.

I didnt get to see this episode, however I was thinking of a way it could be duplicated.

Just have a person walk backwards in the robes, and then take off running forward like it appears to in the video.
Just a thought though.

Having looked at the video I feel confident in stating that it is a fake.

What you see is first a rewind of the scene and then it moves forward. The video starts at the end, is cranked backwards and then moves forwards to the end again. The shadow moves (in backwards motion) first towards the camera and then moves (in normal motion) away from it. It is someone in black, monk's-habit type clothing, add a bit of doctoring to the film itself, and you seemingly have a ghost video.

It really annoys me that these fools get either so bored or desperate to be sensational. Once you see the calf and shoe of the individual dressed up, you realise the sadness of the attempt to bamboozle people. It is a fake!

Regards

Elysiumfire

P.S.
The dust motes are flying at some speed toward the camera lens and then away from it, also at the point where the figure moves forward, you will see it causes a draught that moves the brighter looking cloth hanging to the left.

Um... no TAPS is an offical organization, they dismiss all paranormal ideas until there is no other explanation. It couldn't be duplicated under the condtions. Someone must have been hiding out of sight for hours, known where the camera was, and know how to get close enough so their figure is not completely shown. And know how to run fast backwards and forwards over a distance in under 3 seconds.

Sorry eva, I enlarged the video like by 300% the cloth is moving So the dust is moving from the wind, but the reflection it strange...

And it can't be a rewind/fastforward, the flying debris the camera catches does not follow its original track. Also, in the second half of the video... The figure is running forward at first, and there is no way to explain this, but switches direction without even rotating and runs away from the camera, they are two different accounts if you havent noticed.

In the first half, the figure like dissapears in a slightly noticable physical whirlpool, it's not big from the camer's view, but it's there.

The particles move after the body moves away from the camera\as a direct result of the body's motion. If you watch the dust before the body comes into play the actual area is seemingly calm. the strucure itself is a prison complex, so it was built with thick load bearing walls, high vaulting ceilings and rarely would you see materials besides concrete and steel.
during the day (if you see daylight pics),,,look at the website or other postings, the hallway is long and the only other way the area would be affected is by an outside source, another body, a possible strong wind, elements of the earth.
My intensions behind the construction is to eliminate outside sources that could cause the movement and why the area around it was so influenced by the intrusion of the figure.
The actual being stayed outside the view of the camera so it would not be seen, i doubt after thinking about it that a real ghost would be scared of being seen on camera. I still think that its a couple of kids, or somebody playing with the group.
i'm still bothered by the quickness the body took to move; and how could anything alive move so fast in opposite directions. i would like to see anybody on the board do that and play us the video.
I personally think TAPS is a reputable organization, but with all outside sources i approach with caution for when capitalism comes into play anybody could be the deciever.

If you really want to get in detail about the wind effect, read robert venturi's study on wind effects of the city.
When wind hits an object, it does not slow down, it speeds up. Hence the particles reaction to the body.

What I really find troublesome, is that if you look near the bottom of the apparition, especially as it turns, you can see what looks like the bottom of a robe swishing, and for a second (as already mentioned) a solid looking leg.

Architecture

There is still a question that has not been answered that is bothering me. If this is just a person dressed up, then why does it first come into view as a mist and it is actually transparant, if you look closely, you can see the metal railing through the figure as it approaches.

Hi, long time reader first time poster

i first saw this video a few days ago when i officialy joined the site and was no longer a lurker. when i first saw it i was impressed by it, it did seem to be genuine footage.

perhaps im getting ahead of myself, first off i do believe in ghosts and as someone else on this site so wisely put it no footage will ever prove beyond doubt etc etc because its either too bad...or too good. so im not gonna complain about the quality of the tape. also im new to this country...i had never heard of TAPS...but i shall be checking it out. i would say i am a believer who isnt stupid enough to believe everything i read or am told, ill make my own mind up, but there is far more to suggest they do exist than not.

i dont believe any paranormal investigator would ever dare to fake anything. its hard enough in that type of field to be believed to risk being discovered a fraud. so the question of if they personally faked it seems to be nul and void. it may get them more ratings now but if it came out next week...they would never work again. one more final note of the its a fake issue, if you really going to fake the video for tv ratings, and practised the moves and etc etc etc and were staking your entire career on the line.......would you wear WHITE SHOES??????? i wouldnt think so. and as the shoe shape or what ever is so obvious as it flares up so bright, i refuse to believe they wouldnt notice it when watching it back before airing it if they were in anyway shape or form in on a scam.

i do not see the "mist", i do not see the bar thru the "person" but i do think i see a person turn around instantly, now we all went to gym class and did that really annoying back and forth running thing...and you cant turn that fast, or in that tight a confine THAT fast. one thing that does bother me is this. you clearly see a foot as the thing runs away, what you dont see is the turning foot. bear with me, when you did that running back and forth at school you always had to stick a foot out in front of you to stop yourself and provide a push off point for you to take off in the other direction right? i dont see it here. so logically i assume that it is a editing trick, but as stated here, the dust doesnt go back to where it started. so i discount that possibly. if it was a person mearly walking backwards then running forwards again your gonna need to push off to achieve that speed, and that means extending you foot out from below the cloak, unless of course the person had one white sock on and one black sock..... only if the thing had no mass and therefore no weight would it be able to switch directions that fast...that quickly.

one other thing i would like to question is, the video at this link shows three seperate clips on one file. and the first two seem to be from the same incident, however the third doesnt seem to be. anyone know for sure? the dust doesnt seem to be the same pattern and the "shoe" etc isnt the same. if this happened twice or more then i would assume its not a fake as it would be more mysterious if it was a "what was that?!?" then..there it is again....... the file is here in the audio video section, its the black mist hovering back and forth. im having trouble viewing the videos here now for some reason..but im working on it.

now i do definelty see a shape in the form of the body of the object just before it "turns" it takes on other charectoristics(im a great speller ) it does seem to me as if its a shadow then a person. and i do agreed it does seem to move too fast for a person who would be hunched over if as you all say the roof is only 4 foot tall.

i do agree and wonder why a ghost would object to being seen on camera particulary as it does seem to turn and run so obviously. one thought i have had which i would like to share is this. we all agree it was a prison so assuming that the "ghost" is a prisoner...what where they doing in said tight confined space?.... my point being guards wouldnt have transported prisoners thru there and no prisoner would be there with permission at any time. so two conclusions arise, number one.....the person wasnt suppose to be there so got freaked by "being seen" and they wouldnt have been wearing shoes anyway because shoes make noise. (assuming they had shoes anyway...if its a old prison they wouldnt have had shoes and there bare feet would show up bright white like sneakers on a night vision camera anyway, because back in the olden days prisons werent very nice places so you didnt wear shoes etc, they were not provided for you) i think its reasonable to assume that the person was trying to escape from the prison and took off his shoes/didnt have any shoes and had broke out of his cell and was crawling thru the crawl space (hunched over if you will ) trying to reach the next part of his escape. i say he because back in those days all prisons were male only, as is my understanding. women went to reformatories and became nuns etc (correct me if im wrong)

now.......heres a thoery. the guy was killed in his escape and if he had only went back to his cell....he would have been alright. it is possible that the ghost running away is actually the emotional imprint pf what he wished hard enough for as he was being beaten to death by the guards for trying to escape. thats a possibly but its a bit concuidental (theres that spelling again) for it to have happened right there infront of the camera etc. but then again almost all ghost footage is.

incidently you ever wonder if its not a accident and that the dead are actually trying to communicate there message to us so they can get over it?. the old adage "talking helps" etc all ghosts etc appear to come from emotional torment and anyone who has ever experienced any im sure has always felt a heck of alot better after sharing the pain......so why would ghosts, who are inherently human...not do what humans do? what i mean is are they aware the camera is right there...right then........unable to talk with us directly they play out a eloborate game of charades with thier souls. desperatly trying to ease thier burden by being human again. you also notice how people that listen to spirits and talk with them as equals or as higher beings always get results?...but the guys who run screaming get nowhere.........think about it

anyway..back to topic.........just realised that they are camcordered off of the tv, you can see the tv on the last two parts. that explains the dodgy pic quality on the very last one. its the angle on the TV causing the contrast to shoot way up. anyway....

my official ruling for what it is worth........ i dunno i personally believe its real. something abnormal was captured on camera. i do not believe it was a fake. theres simply too much at stake for the fakers. if however the tape was sent in to them?...... then maybe. i never put too much stock into, just because it cant be recreated it couldnt have happened arguement, simply because its a different day. different people. i mean come on have you ever watched a remake of a movie. take pshyco. exact same script. exact same camera angles. exact same set lay out. exact same movie?.....hardly. one works the other dont.

so any recreation is doomed to fail. even if you tried to do one thing....just walking accross a room, it would take a fair few goes before you matched up frame for frame with yourself. and if it was faked im damn sure they would have made the effort not to see a plain as day shoe/foot. they would have done it time and again to get it perfect. and if it was some kids running around.....im sure they would be fairly advanced and disaplined kids not to do it again elsewhere, have fun with the cameras, remain in a supposely haunted prison all night......not be noticed by any one in or around the building during the set up of the cameras and the removal etc when these people are there to notice any little thing.

i say its real.......something that was abnormal certainly was captured on camera that night. there is plenty there to show its a fake but there plenty of counter arguments to say its not. and cos im new here...im right



in conclusion, everyone has thier own beliefs and thoughts, otherwise ...


why the hell would this be called a "discussion" forum.


RogueActOfVengence aka Tyler

That was an excellent post RogueActOfVengence, and welcome to UM. It is so nice to have a new member who thinks things through like that. Your post has reminded me of a couple things that I forgot to add, so I will do it now. It is a very old prison, just used for historical tours now, but back in the day of that prison, inmates never came out of there cells, ever. They ate in their cells and there was no outside time like there is now. That is why the walk way is so narrow, because only the guard on duty would be on that walk way. And if I recall properly, that prison only gives guided tours and it is kept locked at night, so they always know if there is anybody in the building. But lets say that somebody else did get into the building, well they had cameras set up all over the prison and were able to determine that not only was everybody from the group in the same area eating dinner at the time, but nobody else was roaming around. And if some kids or something were in there trying to play a prank with the cameras, then they would have to know where all of the cameras were located to be able to get around all of them with out being seen, which is impossible for somebody who was not setting the cameras up. Further more, every light in the prison, with the exception of where the computers and staff were, was off, it was pitch black in there, all of the team members were using flash lights to walk around, I don't see how somebody out side of the group could have gotten around that prison with no flash light, and if they had one you would have seen the light.

Um, looks fake to me. Looks like he was taping one of his buddies running back and forth

Good post RogueActOfVengeance and welcome:

I think one thing a lot of us may have over-looked here is that T.A.P.S. could very well be the victims of a scam as well. They themselves even brought that up. We have to remember, they are invited to these places. For whatever reason, the person doing the inviting could want publicity, seeing if they could pull off a hoax, etc. Weirder things have happened and you have to remember, the people who invited them are going to know their way around the place a lot better than any member of T.A.P.S.

To me, it looks fake for the fact that you can clearly see someone turning around and running as well as seeing the guy's shoes. But who knows? I have been know to be wrong - alot!

have you by chance read any of the posts in this topic at all?


And again to the arguement of seeing the leg and shoe, ghosts are appartions of people, do people not wear shoes?

But good point amy about T.A.P.S. themselves being the victims of fraud.

I saw TAPS a few times, and I couldn't stand the obvious exaggeration on everything! Someone always ends up getting sick from going in a room. I'm astonished at this vid though...

Btw, there's not a chance this could be a setup if it was a real person and filmed in real time, that's just too quick for anyone. What did look possible is a robe on a 'clothesline', which with a jerk could change the things direction that fast.

one member of T.A.P.S. that had a habbit of getting a bit carried away with the "feelings" and such has left the team.

Nah...just a black curtain. I've seen scarier frauds.

I dont think it's meant to be scary.

Let's assume that it is a spirit, demon, ghost, what have you. Why would this spirit be acting this way? I can't pressume to know how spirits behave but it doesn't seem logical for one to run franctically around like this and when he/she/it sees the camera, it bolts. If you're dead, why would you care? I can't understand why the spirit would be behaving this way. That's not a reason to discredit this video but it's something to think about.

It would be interesting to know how many hours of tape was shot and if there was anything else on any of the tapes. It would be good to see another tape shot the same night to see if the other tapes appear to have been altered. The speed of this tape appears to be altered.

I know many of you have indicated a trust for this group called TAPS. I am not familiar with that name but I believe I have seen them on TV before. Keep in mind that regardless of how fair they present themselves, none of you have been there with them and they are not personal friends. You can't trust anyone when it comes to this sort of thing. That said, it's probably more likely that this was a set up planned prior to their arrival by the person or organization who invited them to this prison. I certainly am not saying TAPS is guilty but I am not going to say I trust them simply because they come at it with a skeptical point of view instead of a believer perspective.

mariposa26, maybe the spirit is camera shy and when he saw the camera he turned and ran very quickly. It's possible for people to be camera shy, why not spirits? haha. I'm retarted.

l only seen one show because l never know when they are on where l'm from .
but anyway about the tape l can't tell if its fake or not because it seems questionable but it's true that maybe someone(like the one who invited them ) pulled a fast one on them .

If you get a professional video analaysis, he would tell you that it's physically impossible to pull off a stunt like that. If you englarge the video, save it to your computer, look at it frame by frame like I have, you can clearly see that you cannot do that. You can't be facing one direction, then without any warning, with out rotating your body AT ALL, change direction and run the other way.

Sorry it took me so long to come back...... Yeah, I agree that this is not a hoax. Once again I wonder why some people just cant believe things for a moment. I dont see any reason to fake this. Like people in other replies have said, TAPS would be the first team to prove something false. I see it on the show all the time. You see some crazy video, and they go back to the house and prove that its highly possible it was not paranormal. But this? Lets say that some guy did want to play a prank on TAPS. How could he (or she) run like that in the dark? As for the whole "Shoe" think. If the ghost could have a cape, why not a shoe? You know, I'll take the other side for a moment and say "Yeah, that could have been hoaxed!". Mabe it was on an intricate "String and Pulley" system.... Whats the point of that? Why would some SICK $*&# try to pull a prank like that. Why would someone waste a whole night hiding in an abondoned jail to fake a ghost on a night-vision camera that they didnt even know was going to be there before they planned it. A person would have no way of getting through there without night vision themselves, and unless they are an "Alien" with some advanced Night Vision technology that we dont know about yet, it was paranormal. Say it with me PARANORMAL.

Hmm beating the dead horse here, but i'm bored so here goes..

The first photo is a frame that looks like someone in a hooded outfit doing the moving. The first photo is traced, along with a few other 'tricks of the eye'. All the things i circled could be said to resemble faces? Pretty dusty and gritty footage so who knows. The next photo is the same image without the tracing and circling. The last three are of what could be ecto, maybe? floating across from the bottom left corner to the top right. Exciting encounter with the paranormal? Hoax? Sad thing is we may never know.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/IchiOni/para/hoax.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/Ich.../ESPhq_0002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/Ich.../para/ecto1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/Ich.../ESPhq_0004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/Ich.../ESPhq_0005.jpg

Sorry i tried to tag so the photos just show up, but couldnt figure it out.

Nice picks, but still... Proove to me this is a possible human feat, the camera isn't sped up because the cloth in the backround if moving at a normal pace. Proove to me this video is a fake and a hoax.

i have seen the video before. My stance is 50:50

I'll try to be more clearer in my explanation of what is occurring in this video.

Firstly, the scene was filmed twice. The original scene, probably with the figure starting his run from the camera, and then running past the bright hanging cloth, and along the gantry. The second part of the filming, is to film the first original scene in re-wind mode. The two were then spliced together, using the bright cloth as the synchronizing point. This is why the figure seems to make an impossible turn, but in fact the figure never makes a turn; the figure's back is always facing the camera lens.

So, at the start, the scene is running in reverse, giving the impression of something approaching the camera. The figure always has its back facing the camera, and at no point does it do a 180 degree turn. The scene starts to go in normal forward motion at the juncture where the figure (moving in backwards motion towards the camera) just passes the bright hanging cloth. At this point, the scene then reverses to normal forward mode. You see the left calf and foot (with shoe attached) as the person in the robe starts to run forward (ie, running away from the camera), causing a draught to move the bright cloth. Due to the splice, the first 10 - 15 feet of the figure's run has been edited out, and thus it looks as if the figure makes the anatomically impossible 180 degree turn (which in fact it does not do). This is a fake, a manufactured attempt!

Regards

Elysiumfire

P.S.
Just as a matter of interest, I am not being purposefully negative to this video. I too, would love to see a genuine capture on film of an apparition or ghost, but so far, none exist. A genuine capture would not be in a murky scene, it would not be out of focus, there would be no vagueness to it at all.
I remember seeing an alleged security camera capture of an apparition walking down a corridor in a building in Salford, Manchester, UK, not too far from where I live. This image you might all have seen, as it was used in the opening credits of the X-Files. This is the only capture that I have looked at that truly denies me any means to analyze it. I will see if I can find some information about it and if possible I will post the video of it.
If I remember rightly, the security guard went to investigate as soon as he saw the image on his screen, but all the doors were locked (he had to unlock them in order to enter the building) and he was the only one with the keys to the premises. He found nothing, but heard noises and footsteps, and although the heating had been on all day at the building, the corridor was icy cold, colder than it was outside. What is shown on the opening credits of the X-Files is not the whole tape. I have been told by someone in the know that the tape clearly shows the apparition forming and walking towards the camera, but I myself cannot confirm this.
There is also another capture of similar integrity caught on another security camera outside a manor hall here in England, I'll see if I can dig them up.

is it a fact that the film has been manipulated?...or is this your opinion?. if it is has been edited etc then its a bit rediculous for anyone to watch it without being told that and then been expected to form a opinion on what can be seen. wheres the raw footage?

if it is edited footage and rewound and played back etc etc then its pointless to even ask for a opinion on it without sharing the facts of the manipulated video. no-one could possibly study the video without being confused on what is folward and whats backs etc.

i am now confused asto what is actually worth watching on the video at all if it has been "workshopped" to assist you see what it is, or not.

isnt the point of footage like that to be presented the raw video and then pick it apart and then possibly workshop the video to enhance the images to clarify opinions......?

See, everyone pays attention to the figure when the backround and the movement in the backround is moving, how it moves, and how clear it is. This is a very very very clear video anyways, especially for a night vision. What you are not paying attention to is the figure's legs, study them for hours, maybe you will think again. They make a motion that cannot by so perfectly manipulated by video editing.

And Second of all, this is the only aparitition video T.A.P.S has, and they don't make a big fuss about how they got it on tape. It's never been on a TV show besides their own and on their website. They would have no reason to make a fake video. Just because countless other videos are fake doesn't mean one in the sea of hoaxes are. This is no rewind either, if you can pay attention to detail, you would know it's not.

**Quote** " A genuine capture would not be in a murky scene, it would not be out of focus, there would be no vagueness to it at all." -Elysiumfire


So what you are saying is that the only video you would believe is something as high quality as hollywood special effects? Think about it. It will never happen. Even if some guy did come up to you and give you a tape of a ghost that you could see perfectly, I bet you would still say "that is totally fake. That is CGI". What I am saying is...its better to believe and risk disappointment, then to not believe at all.

^

Sorry to disappoint you guys, but this is a fake! You are seeing what you seek to see, I am seeing what is there! I didn't in a moment's notice decide to think it was a fake, I analyzed it logically and objectively, I gave it 'real' attention and drew my conclusions, and presented them. If that upsets a few of you then so be it, we will have to agree to disagree, but as that video tape stands, so does my opinion of it, and thus I lean towards a doubt on it. You all can hold your own opinion of it, and that is fine, but I will hold mine until something else crops up that makes me view it differently.

No! I am not saying that I would only accept high quality filming as that would make me suspect it, and CGI technology is not that far advanced that you cannot tell the difference between computer generated imagery and celluoid captured scenery, but it is good, I'll grant you that.
Instead of using night-vision or infra-red cameras, it might be better to use thermal cameras, or perhaps use them in conjunction with each other? However, because of the 'countless other video hoaxes', that is the reason why it is better to first suspect rather than to blithely accept, and it is from that angle I will always approach these video segments. I have already given two examples which I err on the genuine side, and one reason out of a few is because the captures were not a premeditated hunt for a ghost on film. They were caught by consequence of the presence of security cameras that are in place to capture the living form, not the dead, nor are they murky, out of focus, or bad images. One is grainy, yes, but that is after being enlarged, but the other is quite clear in the evening dark. When I have time I will seek them out and put them up for your perusal.

Regards

Elysiumfire

Keep in mind that the guy who recorded this basically took a hand held camcorder and stuck it against the tv, so quality wont be as good as the actual footage.

By the way, the white stuff that appears to be the things legs and lower half, is actually just dust, on frame-by-frame inspection you can see it clearly doesnt move with the Thing.

So basically, you won't accept anything from a ghost hunt because it's too convienient? Wow... kinda ignorant if you ask me. There are only about 2 ghost videos I believe are true, this one, and the one of a shadow figure appearing in a room someone died in.

If you were to look at this video and not ignore the facts eva, I, and two others have provided, you would see this video is legit.

Never seen that before... Do you happen to have that clip on hand? I'm curious