Wisdom and Love are the two main pillars of every true civilization.

On one pan of the scales of Cosmic Justice we should place Wisdom; on the other we should place Love.

Wisdom and Love should balance each other mutually.

Wisdom without Love is a destructive element.

Love without Wisdom can lead us into error, "Love is Law but Cognizant Love".

It is necessary to study much and acquire knowledge but it is also urgent to develop the Spiritual Being within us.

Knowledge without the Spiritual Being well developed within us in a harmonious way becomes the cause of that which is called knavery.

The Being well developed within us but without intellectual knowledge of any kind gives rise to stupid Saints.

A stupid Saint possesses very developed Spiritual Being but since he does not have intellectual knowledge, he cannot do anything because he does not know how to.

A stupid Saint has the power of doing but he can not do because he does not know how to.

Intellectual knowledge without the Spiritual Being well developed produces intellectual confusion, perversity, pride, arrogant Atheism etc.

During the Second World War thousands of scientists devoid of any spiritual elements in the name of science and humanity committed terrible crimes with the purpose of carrying out scientific experiments.

We need to form a powerful intellectual culture; however, very well balanced with a true Cognizant Spirituality.

It is urgent to arrive at an Intellectual and Spiritual SYNTHESIS if we really want a balanced mind.

Loge, I'm sure you believe everything you wrote. However this is your, (what is that called again), oh yah OPINION. Some of us NB's do just fine without a spirit being as you call it. Saints are people the religious want to idolize.
I know a lot of religious people that are intellectually confused. Almost all of the perverts in the world worship your god. There is nothing wrong with being proud. Arrogant atheists, aren't they the same as the arrogantly religious. Arrogance is arrogance no matter how you believe. Although narcisism is usually practiced by the religious.
The scientists you are refering to during WWII were conducting these horrific experiments on the orders of their governments. The experiments you speak of were also being conducted in the US and many other countries around the world. Some of these scientists were religious but they were doing the job they were ordered to do in fear for their lives. Today the drug companies are experimenting on us and they have many backers and contributers within the religious community. A lot of these drugs are harmful to humans more than they help.

Loge how do you go about developing the Spiritual Being and how do you know when you have it and enough of it?

The Being is an amalgam of all the qualities that constitute one psychological existence based on the essence of one's basic or essential nature and that expresses through the personality.



Several people on this planet have developed a serious injury or shock in their minds due to religious violence or an event or situation that caused them great distress and disruption during some period of their life.

This is also an emotional wound or shock that creates substantial, lasting damage to the psychological development of his/her Individual Personality, often leading to neurosis.

They feel safe and sound when pronouncing themselves against anything they cannot understand as: God, Spirit, Soul, etc. Even when they reject these words nonetheless (based on a hidden pscyhological fear) they utilize them as psychological buffers that protect them by intercepting or moderating adverse emotional pressures or intellectual influences!

Loge, sounds to me like you're a practicing psychology student!

A great sage stated:

"The subtlest arrow that nature throws us, induces us to perform illicit acts with the pretext that they are beneficial and necessary. Oh, how many essences have been coerced and have lost their Being because of this golden snare. They will never taste from the silent Manna. QUOD NEMO NOCET NIST QUI ACCIPIT.

"If you do not defeat (your animal ego) with perfection by dying within yourself, then you are the one who does not attempt to die in his passions and is not well disposed for receiving the power of understanding. Without this infusion it is impossible for the introversion to occur and for the Being to be altered. Thus, this is how those who identify with their mind live without HIM.

"Resign and deny yourself in everything feeble. However, the real denying is difficult in the beginning, easier in the middle, and very placid in the end. You will know that you are very far from perfection if you do not find your Being within everything. You will know that pure, perfect and essential love consists of the perfect balance of your mind, in voluntary denying and resignation, in perfect humbleness (poverty of the Spirit) and abhorrence of your weaknesses.

"It is important to enter and remain in the innermost part of your psychological centre, while in times of strong temptation, despair and desolation, in order to see and contemplate only your Being who has his throne and quietude in the depth of your own essence...You will discover that impatience and bitterness of the heart are born from the bottom of the sensitive, empty and less mortified love. When the self is profoundly humble and is truly mortifying and despising all weaknesses, then, one knows true love and its effects." Michael de Molinos

yes, people do create psychological barriers. However, it is more true that people adopt beliefs in "gods", "souls", "spirits" and other man-constructs as shields.

Can you give me an example of "poverty of the spirits" and common "weaknesses" us humans share.

god help me, i'm about to defend loge. here goes. taoism and kabalah have been teaching all this for thousands of years. and i hate to admit it, but the only true "atheist" civilisation, communism, failed miserably everywhere it has taken over. this puts it right up there with christianity as far as causing destruction and mass murder. naziiism was not atheist, hitler and his pals worshipped the darker powers. the millions of jews were, it is now widely know, a sacrifice to satan, who, i guess, was not pleased.

the failings of communism do not lie in atheism, they lie in creating an environment not reflective of the inhabitants!

There are Communist states that still exist example People's Republic of China, which in 50 or so years will be economically the strongest nation in the world. also the Socialist Republic of Vietnam still a small nation but there economic interest is still growing. I admit there are some stinkers Cuba, N.Korea, but they suffer from lack of resources and foreign relationship issues.

Most communist countries failed either because of corruption or lack of resources to sustain their power.


Thats true also communist nations don't really mean the people are Atheist.

Poverty of the spirit is experienced when one understand one’s indignation or ill will against a real or imagined criticism.

Common weaknesses us humans share: Lust, Anger, Greed, Pride, Envy, Laziness, Gluttony, Fear, Vanity, etc.!

If not then I think you are very close!

the point was, that the system was atheist, and that they rank right up there with christianity in destruction, massacres, and hatred. there are only what-
4 communist countries left, i think. it is not doing well. and the suppression of religion has been a continuing factor in its failure to thrive.

Gideon
I think what Hyper is trying to say is yes communism is atheist in nature, but that has nothing to do with the fact that communism is failing and that it treated the people badly (To put it mildly). The fact that it did treat people in a bad way is contributing greatly to it's down fall. Four countries out of how many?

Hyper if I am wrong sorry.

or practicing at manipulating psychological concepts to fit his argument!

(no insult meant loge. if you are in a psych program i would be interested in knowing what your specialization is. i will share as well )

I hope it is as a member of the staff and not as a resident.

Why are you both frightened of? Maybe it is because you wander how it is possible that I have discovered your thoughts?

Let me tell you, your thoughts one can never discover, unless one discover them within one’s own Being!

The more you seek to go into my psyche and Being, the more vigorously my roots will go into your minds, downwardly, into the most gloomy and dismal of your thoughts.

This is how, psychologically, the wise grow as the Tree of Life always alone. This is why there are not too many sages because solitude makes cowards tremble.

But if you want to know the source of my knowledge and my understanding, behold they increase together; the most I enquire about me and not about you; and the more I despise myself the more I know you!

Thus, let it be known that only through the Being you can go into my heights!

oh loge, you are too much.

fear you? nonsense! understand you, yes. I only asked because we have similar views on many things once we strip off the "superficial terminology". You would be interesting to have a discussion with on various subjective concepts. (that is of course if you don't have something personally against ......... well your smart enough to figure it out )

Maybe I am too little!



I meant you are scared of your self because you ignore many things about your Being when you think you know about your mind!

Yes, there is something personally against you and this is you and not me!

Well if you are smart enough you will figure it out!

"the mind" is just more masterbation!

you think i ignore? you would be very incorrect in that assumption. such an oversight would prove deadly in mortal combat!

Your mind of your Being is in starvation!



I am only aware of my own ignorance and you should be of your own;
this is not an incorrect assumption but just proof of an upright insight already dead in combat!

the "mind" does not exist! it is a creation to explain the unknown by philosophers!

thus you freely show what you don't know (and i admit to what i don't know).

arrogance is not a virtue, so it is said.

That's Wicked! What am I thinking right now?

I know I'm vain and all,

I think I'm starting to get little bits and pieces now Loge, but I have some questions still. I don't know if I understood correctly but to learn about spirit we need to learn to dispise ourselves. Is this correct?

And also a soul in poverty is a good thing? Not being smart or anything, just trying to clear things up a bit.

This isn't even philosophical...please...in the future take all of your medication exactly as prescribed!

Right now you shouldn’t be thinking!



I said: We must not return and run in the presence of the moment; otherwise we will be eternally returning and running from the truth!

The truth is everywhere at any moment, however it cannot be seize by a liar (the Mind) but by the consciousness (the soul)! It is written:

“You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” John 8: 44, 45

Therefore, whosoever wants to know the truth has to deny or despise him/her Mind!
(Up right thinking)



Blessed are those with up right thinking because they will discover the motives of their mind, thus they will acquire the poverty (humbleness) in their souls: thus they will abide in the truth (the kingdom of heaven)!

Yea, some people only take the dead letter as it is exactly as prescribed; because they just worry about their gluttony: bank accounts, fashion, gossip, drugs or lewdness! They do not have the least intention of ever reflecting on themselves!


“Let us eat and drink, because tomorrow we will die”

Call the hospital and tell them we a patient of theirs running round in here.

Some people have bottled up their minds in abominable communism: others have bottled up it in heartless capitalism.

There are some who have bottled their mind in jealousy, hate, desire to be rich and have a good social status, attachments to certain people, or attachment to their own suffering and family problems, etc.

People love bottling up their mind. Few are those who decide to truly smash the bottle to pieces.

We need to free the mind, but people love slavery, and it is very rare to find someone in life that does not have the mind totally bottled up in some stupid religious belief or nonsensical atheistic theory.


The Being is the only thing truly worthy of commanding our minds, but we prefer to be trapped within a golden cage made of bars of beliefs and theories and singing like birds beautiful songs about Freedom or about the Being, God, Matter, Evolution and so on and so forth!

and some see others in a small golden cage and see themselves as uninhibited because they are outside that golden cage when all they have done is fail to see the cage they themselves are in.

People's views are also like their views on houses. They feel free when they upgrade their house to something bigger when in fact all they have done is make room to accumulate more meaningless garbage.

Red breasted robin in a cage perhaps?

Maybe Loge is talking about what is supposed to bring you to true spiritual enlightenment. With love we recieve love, with hate we get hate. If we all were to percieve one another as something most of us would be percieved as rude( rudweness to me is percieved as hatred) so why would you want to hate and not love?

Your spirit within can be brittle and withered if you hate.

To water your soul is to love and to love makes your flower bloom.

I loved your post Loge. I always do. And you are not crazy just eccentric.

it is because love, hate, soul, mind, spirit are all next to meaningless except in the efforts of the little and like thinking.

It is all about the illusion one generates for oneself. In talking of being free of the cage you put yourself in a cage. Outside is as much a cage as inside.

The only restraints that we have on our mind are the ones that we impose on ourself. We limited by our own thinking.

We all walk on a thin grey cord stretched between light and dark. If we fall too far into the dark we will not be able to see the light; to far into the light we can't see the dark. Balance between the two, as we need both. We need hate to know love; we need death to know life. It is the spin of the Circle that knows no beginning or no end.

There is darkness in each of us; it is what gives us our drive to survive. The old ancestor hunter running game under a full moon, he is still there in our minds a part of us.

The light is the Higher Self, the shaman who seeks the Divine Self to heal a child. That part who shares food with a hungry stranger.

To find balance we must stay between the two, in the grey.

Oh Yea!

Freedom is only for rebellious eagles whose wings do not fit among the parochial rabble.
The fire of eternity burns within their heart and from their rebel eagle’s nest they scream with rebellion always shaking heavens and earth ...

Communism has failed because communism simply can't work. Consider the basic philosophy of it: "From each according to his means, and to each according to his need." So who determines what an individual's means or needs are? Why, some ruling person or council. Just another form of tyranny, no matter how prettily described. A tyranny by any other name is still a tyranny.

loge, do all doors swing freely for you?

based on your posts i would guess not! in such case, being locked out of certian "cages" denies you full experience. arbitrary and artificial division is only a form of denial.

even in rebellion, there must be something to rebel against. it is a shallow "for show" rebellion if it is only based on assumption and not on experience.

Freedom, freedom, freedom from the known in order to know the unknowable divine!

I have heard that one if they draw a house they wil understand you. Is this true. The different details tell about who you are. No?

I believe we do give ourselves a cage because of fear of being eaten alive or squashed.

people very much cage themselves.

people seek comfort, familiarity. you are most comfortable with what you know, and thus gravitate to it. Now, the more you focus on that which reaffirms and supports, the more the alien becomes threatening. It is self-feeding system.

There is nothing wrong with desiring reduced stress. It is only a real issue when people become so comfortable they forget about everything outside their comfort zones.

The most extreme behaviours and thoughts begin in a very benign way.

The definition of a closed mine.

intellect and spirituality are the two outer pillars of kabbalah, zen, solomons temple, and so on. the middle ground is best.

Well if one seeks comfort in only one thing they will never expierence what may be. It is a scenerio many of us play parts in. For instance religion. What if their were no religion for a person to base their lives on. We would be basing it on our instincts. But carnal instincts rear ugly heads often. Do we just supress our natural instincts to be what is true. But if so we would be denying our true self. Leaving us a unexplored heart mind and body. But if we use our instincts with judgement we could accomplish much. Fearing change-leaving religion as a whole would be like plucking your gallbladder out. You don't necessarliy need a gabladder to survive but it is a part of you. But eventually if you fill your life with garbage the gallbladder fills up with stones leaving you with ache. So you have to get rid of this by surgical removal a cutting away of the flesh making your spirit press on and move forward.

Yes, the middle path is the best, but only those who comprehend the mysteries of DAATH (Gnosis) can walk on it!

All religions are one. Religion is as inherent to life as humidity is to water.

The Great Cosmic Universal Religion becomes modified into thousands of religious forms!

Loge It's a great concept but I think it should read "the great cosmic universal spirituality becomes modified into thousands of forms of belief". IMO

Zandore we are on the same page , Namaste sheri

Thank you but No! because all forms of belief are related to the Mind!

And Religion is related to the Consciousness!

All types of beliefs exist everywhere, they are like forms of air pollution (smog) produced by all type of minds, these beliefs mix with the visible body of the consciousness and are suspended in the human atmosphere as clouds of ignorance!

Therefore, all religious or atheistic beliefs are related to the five physical senses of the learned mind!

True Religion has nothing to do with beliefs but with direct vivid experiences of the consciousness! These experiences occur beyond the Mind!

So, Religion is the apprehension of the Spirit through the superior senses of the Consciousness, here and now!

I have always thought of religion as an instituionalized system of religious attitudes and perceptions.

Philosophy of Loge and pigs fly too (wink wink)Namaste Sheri