So there is no way to place the stone on a series of logs and carry it up the side using animals and human laborers?

If you place the stones on a series of logs, you'll still have to lift them. There is no way of getting around that.

You can use a wedge. But you will most certainly not have to left the entire apperatus 400 ft into the air. There is more than one way to skin a cat my friend.

You have to lift something that is almost 500 feet in the air. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

No you don't. By 'lift' I assume you mean picking up the apperatus. But by wedging it up on a series of logs and then carrying it up a series of ramps you can reach 500 ft or however high it needs to be. This techinique is not lifting. Much different and much easier.

(sighs and shakes head)
"Carrying it up" or lifting, whichever technique you'd like to use-wedge or not, you are still essentially "lifting" the stones up almost 500 ft. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

No, you are saying that the stones can't be lifted and that means that some form of higher technology is needed because we cannot duplicate the pyramids today. I am saying that ancient techniques could easily duplicate the pyramids if it were desired to do so.

You are thinking along the lines of saying that we cannot lift these stones with a conventional crane or hydraulic device, I am saying that these stones can be moved up a series of ramps which is an ancient technique. Two very different techniques.

The pyramid was very easily built with men who had the means to move the earth around from point a to point b and construct a series of ramps.

No, Frosty, reread my posts very carefully. I never say we can't use a more "primitive" technology, and it's obvious people have tried this. I say that we cannot use it with the technology we have, us who are so advanced. You don't really even know what I was talking about if you arrived at this conclusion. And back to "lifting" the stones...You understand what I was trying to say now??

So what you are telling me is we cannot move earth around and that it is impossible to build ramps. I could use a bulldozer much more effeciently and effective then men digging up the earth and I could use more structural sound materials to build the ramps. I can use diesel machines rather than men to pull the stones up the series of ramps.

But wait, according to you none of this can be achieved?

READ my post. I never said that we couldn't build ramps. READ my post. All I said that our technology cannot lift the heaviest of stones.
READ my post. (<They say repetition helps people to remember)
What is so hard to understand about this??

Ok, I agreed our technology cannot lift these stones hundreds of feet into the air. I then said why would you want to do this? There are better ways of getting a stone to such heights. And then you said we cannot do this with our technology. Sure we can, I just explained it. It is no longer unexplained mystery.

You also went on to say there is no difference between lift and carry and that either way it has to be lifted up.

(shakes head)
The mystery is that it was practically perfect. A smaller scale was to be used, and its dimensions were way off. And their is no guarantee unless we make an actual duplicate (same size) and see if we successfully use align it. Are you going to use logs? Clay to support a 200 ton limestone block?
If so, it is apt to break. And using this method I'm afraid, is likely to be disastrous. Are we going to use "primitive" tools to cut the stone as well?

Look at your statement in bold. You say we cannot 'use it', 'use it' meaning building ramps and moving earth which was you prior statement. In terms of grammar 'it' is a pronoun which refers to a prior subject you were talking about which was 'primitive technology'.



This is were you try and make the call that 'lifting' and 'carrying' are essential the same technique. I tried to correct you.

These are your own words.

Yelekiah, how exactly do you think the pyramids were built?

BTW, I said nothing about using clay to make ramps. When can use the earth to do that, it works quite well as it is the earth that supports the pyramids.

When I say it Frosty, I mean to build the pyramids. That's just me being careless, and I'm sorry if that confused you. I did not say they were the same technique. Read it again. I say that either way you are "lifting" the stones. Apparently, I've confused you. But do you understand what I'm saying now?

You haven't read this entire thread have you? If not, please do so. And read it carefully on how everyone has their speculations. I state my thoughts as well. There are several links on here.
I'll see you then.

No I don't understand you. What I think you are trying to say is that either way the stones must reach the 500 ft mark but I am not sure why you use the word 'lift' to mean 'carry'. If a man walks up a hill 500 ft he was not lifted himself up, vice-versa if he walks down he has not dropped himself.

I don't want to read the entire thread, I just want to find out how you think they are built. Is there a page number you could direct me to?

Finally! That's it!

Everyone uses the English language differently. Some are more anal than others.

Honestly, for me to find the page, I'd have to sift through this entire thread. And I'm not going to do that, because I'm trying to have a discussion in two other threads at the moment.

There was no earth, only sand. The only logs they had were either imported cyprus or palms. The ramps could not really have been angled to place the stones at decreasing incriments. So the question still remains: how did they build the pyramids??

^Thank you, Rowan.

First off, sand is earth. There is a possiblity of digging away the earth, sand, under the stones to place logs. This is what I refered to when I said wedge technique. You could also flip the stone over and lower it onto a series of logs. Assuming that using a ramp as you say will not work which I doubt it wouldn't. As I said before, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I think she meant earth as in stable earth, as opposed to the kind that slips through your fingers.

Is there any engineers around here? If so, can you answer this: what is the weight wood can bear (pounds per square inch)? If it is 200 tons I'd be truly amazed.

Even better, a lot of the stones were 300 tons.

You mean cubic inch?

What you need to ask is what is the loading bearing capacity of x amount of cyprus or palm logs, y long and z wide over b area. X will refer to the number of logs, y the length, z the diameter(all average) and b the desired side of the stone and its area whether it be the width, length or height.

Do you know the exact dimensions of these 200 ton stones? This could make it much easier to find out.

Another question, could the Egyptians have carved out canals to float the wood to the construction site?

There is no evidence that they did that. There would have been an effect on the granite near the pyramid if water were around for that long. Supposedly, if people used ramps, etc, right? It would have taken perhaps over 15 years to build one pyramid. And there is no evidence of this system being used, and a lot of Egyptologists doubt that.

So how do the egyptologist think they were built? Alien technology?

lol, read the entire thread, then we'll discuss that.

the design and construction would not be very complicated why would the wooden scaffolds ect leave traces, just because there are not signs of the construction does not mean aliens came down and magically zapped the stones into place, im sure if such beings ect were involved they would not have built a simple pyramid that the likes of which can be found throughout the ancient world, even in larger forms then the great prymids of egypt, i believe there is one in south american covered in dense rain forest thats larger.

We're talking about *water* leaving a trace, and no one here believes aliens built the pyramids, so what are you getting at?

Dude, this thread is over 200 post long I am not going to read all of this mess.

My best guess as to how these pyramids were built were a series of ramps reinforced by earth, stone, and logs. These ramps then had a series of logs placed upon to carry the stones to the desired heights. I suppose they also built retaining walls around the base and filled these encasings with sand and lined with a layer of stone or tree. Then they could continued this process as the stones were layed in place.

I don't know what the exact specs would be such as angles of inlcination of ramps, amount of sand, etc. But this paints a pretty general picture of how such a task could be accomplished.

How can I have a discussion with you on this topic if we're not even on the same page? You should read the entire thread as to prevent asking the same questions that people in the past have asked. This is all getting very redundant.

I like your thinking on it, Frost, but Yelekiah is right. We have explored heaps on this topic that now you are asking the same questions. Although I often steer clear of huge strands, so I understand you not wanting to read the whole lot!

So far, I can't find anybody that tried to mention to Yelekiah that lifting the stones isn't the only way of constructing a pyramid. I have given an example of how such a feat can be accomplished and haven't seen others like it.

So clearly reading the entire thread isn't necessary, and there are numerous post, one by Yelekiah on string theory, that are completly off topic. So what would be the point in reading the entire thread?

Actually, it was not off-topic because somebody asked me about it in relation to the Egyptian Zep Tepi. But if you read that Frosty, you would know that. Please, read the entire thread to prevent yourself from looking like an idiot.

Also, some of the ideas were discussed in a chatroom, but for the most part, everything is on here.

We were discussing the Zep Tepi as a "weaving" in and out of the Void, other dimensions, and Egyptian technology, etc. Do you see the relation?

You even state you were being offtopic. Please stop perpetuating your ignorance here Yekeliah.

I apologized because I was mentioning a book for someone in that sense. However, when we were talking about string theory and Zep Tepi, it was related. If you read that, it is obvious. You amuse me on how you like to take things I say out of context.

Have you read the entire thread yet? On Zep Tepi?
And you never answered my question...Do you see the relationship??

So you think Zep Tepi helped build the pyramids with his/her understanding of string theory?

Actually, that's what some people believe, when it comes to matter and antimatter, and changing atomic structures of the pyramids...You see how that's related?
And please, stop taking my words out of context, and read the entire thread so that we can be on the same page.
Thank you.

Bah, what do you have to prove string theory? You are using imiginary gods with knowledge not yet proven to build pyramids which you say could not be built by a ramp system. Led Zeppelin Piti also an alien or just a god?

Once again, if you read the thread Zep Tepi is neither an alien or a god. It is a concept. It means first time, weaving in and out of the Void and dimensions, etc. See what I mean??
Read the entire thread to prevent yourself from looking like an idiot. It's a friendly warning, I'm not being rude.

My, my, you're quote is very fitting-"swamped in ignorance"....

I've always been fascinated about the Great Pyramid of Giza. Not only how it was built, but all the knowledge the builders possessed regarding mathematics, astronomy, etc. Don't know if this was all covered before, but...

One of the biggest puzzlers to me:

The Egyptians kept very careful records about everything they ever did; every king they had, every war they fought, and every other structure they built - but they never recorded building the pyramid of Giza. Think about it - the only one still existing of the Seven Wonders of the World, mankind's most glorious achievement....and not a single hieroglyph on the walls, to describe how it was built. They should have been trumpeting the feat by scribing it everywhere on the pyramid walls.

The Pharaohs that built pyramids after the Giza pyramids were, by comparison, shoddy, crumbling renditions. If the Egyptians built the Giza pyramids, why did they become much worse at building them?

How did they know the value of pi? The builders of Great Pyramid obviously did, but not the Egyptians of the time. The pyramid was built at the exact center of the Earth's land mass, by latitude and longtitude. And it is facing nearly perfect to direct north, east, west and south. But compasses weren't invented until thousands of years later.

A little bit was covered, but it is good that you pointed that out.
Pi, which was supposedly a Greek invention, was being used obviously by the Egyptians beforehand. It's pretty impressive.

Yes, you would think that the Egyptians would have put 'that' achievement in their records as an achievement for the 'gods' to judge in the afterlife. That was why they used mummification as a means to preserve cells for immortality. Also why sometimes faces and names are scrubbed off tombs so they can never become unrecognisable and not become immortal.

The other thing is that the greek civilisation was developed by the egyptians so I suppose they knew about pi first?

They weren't credited, since pi is a Greek word. If only the Egyptians had recorded more, this just might be different world. Who knows?

I thought I heard that somewhere based on, beleive it or not, circumcision which was an Egyptian invention. That ritual can be traced and attributed to Egyptians conquering or settling in different areas.

Rather unusual, considering that Australian Aboriginals also used circumcision but that is a whole other thread which could cover trade and the dingo coming from India...

For some reason I remembered that the Egyptians settled Greece through a river from the Mediterranean. Perhaps I am wrong....

Don't mind me, just musing!!