Really! Not saying you're wrong, but I was led to believe that it was the other way around. THe Giza pyramids predate all other pyramids, period.

At least that was my understanding.

Regards, PA

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Regarding Atlantis: There is actually an island in the Greek archipelago (spelling?) that some think is Atlantis, however I can't remember the name now. But this island suffered an eruption which sank most of the land, forming it to an "U"-shape. And when things like this (i think it's like on of the 10 worst eruption ever) happens it all gets magnified, and this could have caused the atlantic legend.

And regarding the topic: I have a hard time understanding why ppl here can't accept established sceince and history. The foremost experts on Egypt (such as Isis-999 - whom got impressive knowledge in this subject!) have clearly stated the age of the pyramids and agrees to whom build it. I'm not judging anyone at all now! But do you think you can match ppl that's been working with this their whole lifes? Can you really sit at your computer, checking the net and come up with a conclusion that aliens build the pyramids? You have not what so ever done a sceintific research... And does this mean that aliens build the mayans pyramids aswell? just a thought...

Because it's been my experience with historians and archaelogists that they are interested in only keeping the status quo. I don't have a personal opinion of where the pyramids come from. I don't say "It's definitely aliens", or "definitely an earlier culture" or what have you.

I do however, find too many anomolies within the Egyptian culture for it to be as simple as it is made out to be.

Regards, PA

This is so far away from the truth as it gets I'm afraid!
Historians now adays are trying their hardest to come up with new statements and discoveries! If one historian puplish a book and I'm doing research in the same area I'll try to find something wrong with the first text. How would I get noticed if I merely repeated what someone else said before me? No, we historians are allways trying to outmanouver eachother

*meh* maybe I've just met the wrong historians!

Because the existing ones were a b**** to build.

there is a tendency to ridicule the christian bible but we must try to remember that the christian bible is diary of events set down by witnesses struggling to convert what they saw with their eyes into a literal translation. In other words, they wrote down an impression of a physical event they could not comprehend using a language very limited in its expressive strength.
Secondly, the christian bible is only one of many bibles that record such amazing events
Thirdly, the original transcriptions fell into the hands of people who had their own agendas driven by political and economic ambitions so the original stories would have been changed and deliberately mistranslated to suit the status quo.
its an odd fact that more people in the so called developed west slavishly follow the liberal leftist driven demand for a secular society and the abandonment of the christian idea but welcome superstition in all its forms.
more people in the secular west believe in ghosts than god.
The bible tells us that god created man in his own image and we have been informed that this event took place but a few thousand years ago.
Well, our recorded history is a mere blink in time despite the fact that man has been on this planet for a million years.
One second we were eating berries off trees and scavenging dead animals and living in the most primitive of shelters. Then we suddenly walked into the light as developed thinking beings with an intellect capable of rational analysis and within just a couple of thousand years we were building pyramids and developing complex agro systems and established societies.
So when the bible tells us that god created us in his own image are we to believe that prior to this miraculous event there were no human beings on earth....or should we take another look at the original recording of the event that really says that god came to earth and took a primitive hominid and made from that creature a thinking human being....in his own image?

A team of archeologists recently calculated how long it would take a team of 20,000 builders to construct the great pyramid.
They arrived at a disturbing conclusion. The great pyramid is comprised of an estimated 2.5 million blocks of stone and it is believed to have taken the builders 20 years to complete it.
Taking in every factor they arrived at the figure of one block every three minutes.

The Island of Thera or Santorini. It erupted circa 1600bc.....which is odd because that conicides with the exodus of the jews from egypt. "the rain became blood, the seas parted etc"

That's sooooo funny!

I do agree that the bible might be a good source in history-recording, but not those that are around to day. If we want the bible to be a usefull source we have to go back the the oldest copy, or else it's just rubbish...
But the development of man is well documented and there is no "leaps" in technological knowlegde as you suggest if God would come down and teach humans... homo sapiens is around 100.000 years i think (not quite sure though) and came to Europe for like 20.000 years ago and outmanouvered the neanderthals. And eversince we have a rather good perspective of how we developed afterwards... No God did come down to us...

The people of the Middle Kingdom (I think that is what Egypt was called before Alexander the Great renamed it Egypt) built the pyramids. The question should be is who originally built the Spinx, it is much older than the pyramids!

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The Nefelins/Annunakis and their sons (the giags) created the great pyramids. The pyramids were created as artificial reference points to guide space travelers travel by the annunakis.

i would have said just the people of egypt until i read that, makes you wonder...

Evidence, please?

well ...it is kind of odd, you see many modern archaeologists believe that the ancient egyptians had embarked upon a massive project to recreate certain star systems on earth thru pyramidic symbols. They say that the three Giza pyramids were the first of these symbols and that had the project continued the entire star system of Orion would have been represented on earth by a system of pyramids laid out over Giza and the region around it. The Nile of course would have represented the Milky Way.
If you obtain a map of egypt which shows the three Giza Pyramids on it and then turn the map upside down so south is effectively north, then compare the three pyramids to the star system Orion you can clearly see the meaning.
Of course the reason the egyptians ceased this project would have been the expense and finding suitable bedrock in the exact location that would support such massive constructions. Of course there is another debate concerning the actual builders of the three great pyramids.

Hi all. The question was who or what created the pyramids. Well I think the answer to whom! The Egyptians obviously. What created the pyramids? Like thousands of other people I have a theory. This may sound nut’s but after a ton of research and a little hunch. The thing that built it, was something called a djed. It was a revolving second class lever, held in place by a crook. The Egyptian pharaohs carried a talisman called a Djed, which represented power and stability. This is the most recognizable symbol in ancient Egypt; it’s often depicted standing on a square base, some show the pillar portrayed with human arms holding the ankh and a flail. Scholars have suggested it represents a concept of creation. The ceremony of Raising the Djed was an important part of Egyptian festivals. The Djed was considered necessary to aid in the transformation of human flesh into a spiritual form, which is assumed by the deceased in eternity. To protect and transform the flesh into the spiritual form you needed a pyramid. The djed rotated in a stone pivots, they now rest at the sun temple Abusir. Copy and paste http://www.egyptarchive.co.uk/html/abu_sir/abusir_17.html more later.

The egyptians built the pyramids end of story.

[attachmentid=21434]To me the Djed is a rotating lever similar to a capstan. To operate a conventional capstan, capstan bars or long poles are inserted in holes over the wasp or waisted drum; sailors would rotate the mechanism by walking around the capstan pushing on the levers. A rope wrapped tightly around the centre of the capstan would draw the ship to the dockside or pull huge loads onboard; a capstan would provide the necessary sustained torque to haul up the anchor. So in the picture the roped spools replaced the levers, now rotating the capstan or djed is dependant on the amount of men pulling on these roped spooled or power ropes as I described and not walking around the mechanism. The crook held the djed in position at the corner of the pyramid.
Egyptian life revolved around the sea and the Nile River the use of ropes and rigging would be second nature. The Djed is an adaptation of technology, which would have been known and in common use.

If one can accept the Egyptians had the means and the know how to rotate a shaft i.e. the Egyptian bow drill. To convert this rotating shaft into a winch would only need a second rope (known as a tow rope) wrapped around the base of the revolving shaft. Control of the tow rope would be essential, if the shaft was unaltered i.e. remained straight in profile, the ability to predict the ropes course up and down the shaft whilst being drawn in on the tow would be unknown. If the tow rope travelled too far up the shaft the weight of the stone acting on the rotating lever would be too great and ultimately it would be pulled from its bearing. Too far down and it would be entangled against the base pivot stone and the shaft, again undesirable. Control was regained with the addition of the flared base; this kept the rope at a constant height. With the tow rope at a constant height, the pressure needed to keep the shaft in a vertical position would decrease and be easier to control
The Djed sits in what has been described by historians as, altar stones see previous post. This altar stone is located at each corner of the pyramid but at varying heights along the horizontal step, this would be the base described by Herodotus. A man balances the Djed with a crook, on the step above the base; this upper step could be described as rows. Egyptians built huge monuments, obelisks, statues made from stone. The natural progression for a race of people with this ability would be to use stone to build a ramp, why import sand and rubble to construct a ramp when you could use your natural talents as a mason saving time and effort. The pyramid was constructed around a series of ascending zig zag ramps on each side of the pyramid.

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It now becomes apparent that the pyramids where constructed in a zig zag fashion i.e. the stone was hauled up a ramp to the first level from the left, then hauled to the second level from the right, so up a little ramp to a rest area then up the next ramp to the next rest area. With a single ramp a gradient of 1in 10 would mean that the length of the ramp would be approximately 4,850 feet. To calculate the length of a 1 in 10 ramp in a zig zag setup you would divide 4,850 by the number of steps required to lift the stones. It is noted that this system of ramps could not be employed to the very top of the pyramid and at some point other means of placing the final courses and capstone would be used. With this in mind, measurements made by Petrie indicate the final thickness of the top courses do decrease at level 185 to 0.5 meter thick. So if we divide 4850 feet by 185 we obtain a ramp length of 26.21 feet without the flat rest area lets say 12 feet this would give a total length of 38.21 feet for each ramp. The angle of pull from the djed could vary but a ramp angle of 10 degrees is maintained.
I estimate it would take twelve djed or three sets of four and ropes positioned at angles of around 32 degrees to the center.
In some mythological accounts say the sky was divided into four parts and supported by the staffs of four gods? Coincidentally the top view of the djed previous post is similar if not the same as the hieroglyph Ra?



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yes, this is an extremely interesting idea and may be the answer to a question I have been asking established egyptology for some time: a series of ramps encircling the pyramid works fine until you come to the corners. A team of 100 men pulling a 2 ton block of limestone up a straight ramp with an incline of no more than 10 degrees is a feasible idea until you reach the corner of the pyramid and have to make a 90 degree turn.
The capstan idea may answer this question.

yes, this is an extremely interesting idea and may be the answer to a question I have been asking established egyptology for some time: a series of ramps encircling the pyramid works fine until you come to the corners. A team of 100 men pulling a 2 ton block of limestone up a straight ramp with an incline of no more than 10 degrees is a feasible idea until you reach the corner of the pyramid and have to make a 90 degree turn.
The capstan idea may answer this question.


There is supporting evidence for the zig zag ramp theory within the book of the dead
(if you interpret it in this way) This text is a translations by Faulkner 389: Mother of Unas, you Wild Cow and wife, who is on the grassy hill, who is on the hill of the zHzH-bird ! They stand fast, the two djed-pillars, the broken-off steps come down / (from where) the lights come down. 390: Unas ascends on that ladder which his father Re has made for him. I refer to the writing they stand fast, the two djed-pillars. This could represent the djed pillars positioned at either corner of the pyramid? The broken-off steps come down. This could depict the zig zag nature of the descending steps? (From where) the lights come down. This would be where the pyramid and sky meet. Unas ascends on that ladder which his father Re has made for him. Early Egyptian kings alleged descent from the sun God and sometimes added his name to their own royal titles. But most importantly the hieroglyphic sign for Re, a circle with a center dot is the top view of the djed see previous post.

fascinating stuff...keep going

Why has the pyramid remained such a mystery? All the hypothetical reconstructions over the past years have been small, scaled down versions of the pyramids actual size. There is a problem with that scenario, I know the last few courses of the uppermost portion of the pyramid did not have enough room to continue with the zigzag construction method, so trying to re-enact constructional methods using such a small proportion, would never give you the answer.
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Symbols? According to Carl G. Liungman [dictionary of symbols 1991] Any object can be called a symbol as long as a group of people agree that it means more than itself. A rose can be a symbol of love or a poppy a symbol of remembrance. But if the people who agreed that a particular artefact would represent a religious meaning are now lost to antiquity, all we can do is guess its meaning. Associating religious symbols, the crook shaped like a shepherd's staff or sceptre they may symbolise government but assuming that it is concept of a good shepherd leading his flock, this is a Christian belief; to me this is a misinterpretation. The Ankh in the shape of a mirror or a knot is recognised as a symbol of life often carried by deities in a funeral procession and offered to the king as the breath of life. The academic fraternity sees this as a religious symbolism, as seen in the Christian cross, the most familiar religious symbol of Christianity. It is significant for Christians based on the gospel accounts of the New Testament, which describe the manner of Jesus Christ's death as crucifixion. This painful method of execution was common for slaves and non-Romans convicted of serious crimes in the Roman Empire. A tangible link between the cross and Egyptian religious regalia are these tools, for example, the day before Christ died on the cross, it was a tool for killing people, an advertising board saying, and “if you do not conform you will be nailed to it”. So over time we have come to look at this tool as a symbolic concept of creation or a reminder of the pain and suffering we go through as a developing society or civilization. But for me the ankh, sceptre. Crook, flail and djed are all parts of a tool kit that built the pyramids. If they were, wouldn’t they be regarded in the same way that we regard the cross? In previous posts I have covered the crook; it keeps the djed in a stable position. The flail this was hard to fathom, a flail used today is just two sticks hinged around its center usually with a piece of leather. King tut’s flail is hinged back on itself with beads and at least three rollers? why!! To me it is a representation of a long tapered bearing or vertical rollers, held by a worker on the rising stone. He would position these rollers between the ropes wrapped around the rising stone and the pyramid wall, the flail would rotate and counteract angular friction exerted against the wall and the rising stone, with the added benefit of protecting the rope. The tapering would ensure these rollers would rotate up between the ropes. The reason the rollers where hinged at an angle to the shaft is clear, it’s another example of a lever and fulcrum, similar if not the same as a claw hammer. The worker would maintain an upward pressure on the shaft to keep the rollers in position. I have attached zip file last post I hope they work, if not email me and I will return

just the egyptian slaves,no???

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Flash demo of how they did it

What I'm saying is very vague but I heard in the years that were said to have taken to build the pyramids they would have to put a stone up every 8 minutes 24 hours a day to get it done in the number of years said they have taken to be made.

not a vague question at all!!!So could the pyramid be constructed in a twenty year time line? Let’s assume the pyramid had four djed winches on three separate levels,(see previous posts) a total of twelve winches. Each Djed could pull two stones, indeed for the machine to stay in balance raising two stones would be the norm. The numbers would equate to 4 Djed’s x 2 stones = 8. Let’s also assume the time taken to raise all 8 stones up the 1st stage of the 8 ramps would be 4 minutes.
So to the maths 2.5 million x 8 stones lifted, divide 2,500.000 by 8 to get 312,500 separate lifts. Each lift takes 4 minutes = 1,250,000 or 20,833 hours, let’s say an 8 hour working day divide that by 20,833 / 8 = 2,604 days. Raising the djed occurred on November 6th coincidentally my birthday and offerings to Ra, Wasir (Osiris), Heru, Ptah, Sokar and Atum occurred on March 15th my impression is that these dates where the building time line approximately 129 days. Finally divide 2,604 total days worked by 129 day construction period to get a final answer of 20 years.

Hmmmm.Interesting.

creating the pyramids was a marvellous acheivement but how come there are pyramids all over the world? if they were building to please their gods then the gods travelled a bit then?

No.I just think it's proves it's more than the egyptians or anyone else could make.I think it shows the pyramids are just another form of alien technology.

Why do people always look for a deeper meaning? it is obvious that the simple answer here is the right one, no extraterrestrial help only egyptian hands.

If the egyptains made it then to make it in the time said to make the pyramids you would have to put a stone up every 8 minutes for 24 hours for how ever many years.

If you had an army of workers at your disposal why is that so amazing Jesse ?

Because we can't replicate what they did with their technology.I don't think we have the technology to do it the same way and get it point to true north,south,east,west like they did with our present day technology.

I think you will find that we have in fact done small scale replicas If you do a search you will see this topic has been covered in depth No one at this point in time has the will to attempt a full scale as we already know its quite possible.



Most likely they used stars and they are still visible to this day And I can assure you our modern day technology is more than capable

Scales are one thing but doing it like they did with what they said they had is another story.When they do it tell me and then we can talk.

They used exactly the technology and resources available at the times and the good things with scales are if your using half size for example, all you need is to double the ratios and *presto* all simple maths

Yes Yes but do it and lets talk.Build it full scale exactly how they were said to have built it.Untill you or someone does it and shows me proof.I have nothing else to talk about.Thank you.

I could say the same about "alien technology" ...... got any proof ? ........ One shread of evidance? .......

Heck, I'll do it. You provide the funding, I'll provide the know-how. Nothing here that a second year engineering student couldn't figure out.

try my web site
http://www.djed.co.uk/index2.html

This is my little theory!! we are all entitled to an opinion. Good or bad your opinions would be most welcome.

so you are saying the ancient egyptians understood the value of pi and zero?

really?...then show me how you are going to cut and polish andesite granites using copper chisels and sand. Show me how you are going to build the piramids at the exact centre of the earths land masses.Show me how you are going to align the piramids perfectly with the cardinal points taking into account magnetic declination. Show me how your going to establish perfect levels without your theodolite show me how your going to build from a scale replica without a CAD software program OR understanding the value of Pi or the concept of zero. Show me how your going to shift 18 ton granite blocks up a 10 degree incline then around a 90 degree corner. Then show me how your going to place 40,000 casing stones each weighing nearly 30 tons. then show me how your going to calculate building the sides of the great piramid with a concavity right down the centre thus making the piramid eight sided.

Actually, it's entirely possible they didn't have the slightest notion of what Pi was. Remember, they used rolling drums as tape measures, and the natural property of the circular object would impart a value of Pi, with or without Egyptian knowledge of it.



Hey, like I said, you pay me for it, and I will send you the plans and blueprint. Heck, using ancient technology mixed with modern know-how, I'll get it done even faster. Time is money, though, and for a project like this, It's going to take a lot of my time and a lot of your money.

If, on the other hand, you are willing to tone down the aggression and realize that there is no mystery here, I will be more than happy to teach you how to get these things done. I simply don't have the patience to convince you of it, but I will spend the time to answer any questions you have. I will show why magnetic declination, Pi, and various other things about the pyramid are largely irrelevant. Incidentally, your weights are quite a bit exagerrated, but I will show you that too.

So, start at the beginning. Ask one question. Focus on learning rather than fighting, and you will be able to cross off another ancient mystery.

ok then. Explain baalbek. Explain how the builders managed to cut and shift 900 ton blocks of stone with such apparent little difficulty they then went on to cut blocks weighing over 1,000 tons.
Explain how the ancient egyptians could turn the hardest granite into objects such as vases without hardened steel cutting tools.
Explain how the ancient egyptians could drill through 15 feet of granite without diamond tipped drills.
Explain how the ancient egyptians could cut obelisks from granite weighing 300 tons+ and shift them by river for 200 miles and place them with apparent ease into their chosen locations.
Explain how the granite sarcophagus in the king's chamber of the great pyramid was made from a solid block.
Explain how the granite walls of the king's chamber were constructed and polished.
Explain how one can establish the value of pi by merely rolling a drum.
Explain how the ascending passage to the king's chamber was constructed and why it was constructed in that particular way.
Explain why there are no markings anywhere within or without of the great pyramid that relate to the builders or the person or persons it was intended for. Surely such a magnificent monument that had built over such a long period of time involving nearly every person in egypt would have warranted some form of written credit?
Explain why egyptian mythology tells us that the sphinx was there long before the great pyramids.
Explain how there could have been a 4 feet deep layer of sediment around the bases of the great pyramids that contained sea shells and the skeletons of marine creatures.

I think you missed the part where I said "So, start at the beginning. Ask one question. Focus on learning rather than fighting, and you will be able to cross off another ancient mystery. "

I could give you a list longer and far more confusing that this one concerning the construction of a modern high-rise, and I guarantee you that you would be hard-pressed to answer them, even with the internet at your disposal. The thing of it is, though, that none of it would be a mystery. It would simply be something that you do not know. Once you learn the mystery is gone.

Everything here has an answer. Everything from granite work, to Pi, to mythology, and even to the sediment at the base of the great pyramid. All these questions were asked decades ago, and their answers were discovered (although the written credit one is still open to speculation, due to external factors).

Like I said, I am not debating this with you, anymore than I would debate with you about how we can transport ten ton containers and load them aboard a giant ship within seconds at the rate of a ten ton container per 20 seconds. The simple fact of the matter is that it not only can be done, but it is done, and I will tell you how, but I won't waste my time arguing about whether it is done or not.

So enough with the blitkrieg tactics. They don't impress anyone, and it makes you look like you are trying to overwhelm with quantity what you cannot do with quality. Ask one question, and I will answer it (Soon, because I am going to be busy till Wednesday).