ok then. three simple questions: how come no archeologist or civil engineer has yet figured out how the pyramids were built or established exactly how old they really are or indeed, who they were even built for.

and the fact that they were built to align with the orion belt in around 10,500 BC cant really be ignored.

i think people did built it but with a little help from someone or something. i mean like how did they put the last stone on??? they did it to please the gods but have you seen what the gods look like???

its quite possible that after humanity spent about 30,000 years of gettin wasted on seriously powerful hallucenagenics chillin in the vast open exspances of desert under a stary night got bored put two and two together, and there you go, enormous monuments to personify nature and the universe in all its glory. Why not?.

At the corners of the pyramids they used square sockets, that probably sat on a rock foundation, or maybe just the earth.

Anyways, on top of the socket was a mortise, to join with the block that is placed on top, and used to set the angle at the corners. This is also called a 'key', or sometimes a 'keyway' in mechanical design.



It may be hard to see in that image, so here is a closer one.
The mortise looks like the "kite", or the lotus, or the "arrow", etc...
This is a familar pattern to some.




"And the fact that they were built to align with the orion belt in around 10,500 BC cant really be ignored."--PLO

Has anyone read anything about a possible advantage to having one structure offset, like the alignment of the pyramids?

well technically every monument given enough time will be miss-aligned sooner or later.

leaning tower of pisa, lol now that benefited from some miss-alignment troubles.

how come they stopped building them? and why the skills did not pass down they could've built better houses or other buildings?

Well, I was speaking more of how the pyramid of Menkaure is offset from the other two, the basis behind the "as above, so below".

What kind of tangible advantage would this be?

Other than just a mimic of the belt of Orion, what possible literal connection can be made?


I think it has something to do with what mouse888 said:



They have been passed down. Look at the american dollar. It's still around.

BUT....in a very very subtle, memetic form.

The term comes from Hermes Trimegistus, or Thoth, author of the Emerald Tablets. He says how the pyramids were built.

Ah yes, the stone. As much as I try to deny any kind of literal, or tangible object, the idea does attract me.


Here is the best picture I have:




Is there anywhere else on this planet where this specific alignment is being used today, for some kind of tangible output of product?

I think that if something could be proven to make some type of progress using this kind of setup, then we could ask a much bigger question...What was going on here?

nothing was going on here. just your imagination.

simple monuments to keep up the national pride and to create a tourism industry at that time. or to "wow" neighbors.

Yes, I have a vivid imagination.

Just to make this an even longer post... uhm... They where made by men, and brilliant men, just because they are great, doesn’t mean that they couldn’t do it, the Pyramids are a great and awesome accomplishment for both the Aztecs and Egyptians, Nothing but pure genius and years and years and years of hard work behind those :-) Humans are a great race, Even if we do destroy, we always rebuild. Aliens probably marvel at what we have accomplished with our own hands.

YAY!!!
( just had to throw a yay in there)

the mis-alignment was deliberate but only makes sense when you understand that the ancient egyptians saw south as up and north as down. Take a map of egypt and reverse it so south is up then compare the alignment of the great pyramids to the three stars in Orion.
They match perfectly.

I also suspect that the three great pyramids were just the first in a series that would have eventually represented the entire Orion system on earth.

"what possible literal connection can be made?"

that the orion nebula is one the most active stellar nurseries in our region, and the egyptians kept banging on about thats where we came from.

I'm somewhat confused..I don't understand why it is so hard for people to understand that the pyramind's although huge where not really that complexe..You don't have to be from another planet to lay one large stone on top of another... Your talking about people who knew how to cut and measure..Thats really all ir was to building..well that and having enough men to move the heavy stone...

its their alignments thats the question though. And as for anyone being able to do it, as probably said a hundreds times before in this thread, we cant.

And you would also have to admit if they where built in any other "alignment", that there are that many stars visible from earth that the odds of "lining up" with some are pretty good.

Don't you agree ?






Why cant we ?

its not a matter of chance that they align the way they do, its exactly measured, specificaly with orion, and ill again ill say with one of the largest and most active stellar nurseries in our region of space.

So I'll take that as a no

well u can hardly take it as yes, seeing as how you think its a matter of coincidence every astrological monument aligns the way they do becuase sooner or later if u built enough them its gonna happen. Thats just insane.

I though we where talking about the pyramids in Egypt?

Are you sure you understand the subject, Iris? The pryamids are much more complex than just laying brick on brick. The complexity of the underground chambers and those above ground alone boggle the mind for an ancient people to construct little lone the alignement of each pryamid to the stars at a perfect 90 degree angle. Maybe our construction methods spoil us to what ancient people accomplished with so little (that we know of) in terms of equipment. The ingenuity and amazement of ancient man, I say!

Hey I am a long time lurker and don't really post on boards much anymore. But I have something to throw into this whole debate. I am not sure if anyone already posted it but here it is.

The weird thing about the pyramids is that they line up with the star system of SIRIUS (not the satellite radio company)

http://aliensthetruth.com/Worldmyst.php?ID=19 check this site out. There is some door in the great pyramid that was found. It looks like the government of Egypt also prevented them from investigating it.
edit: heres the pictures. This seems like a cover-up



source: www.aliensthetruth.com

A true "Wonder of the World"

Thirty times larger than the Empire State Building, the Pyramid can be seen from the Moon.

Its base covers 13.6 acres (equal to seven midtown Manhattan city blocks), each side being greater than five acres in area.
Center of the Earth

Only a solid stone mountain could endure the Pyramid's immense weight. And indeed, a flat solid granite mountain happens to be located just beneath the surface of the ground directly under the Pyramid.

It is built to face true North.

The Pyramid is located at the exact center of the Earth's landmass. That is, its East-West axis corresponds to the longest land parallel across the Earth, passing through Africa, Asia, and America. Similarly, the longest land meridian on Earth, through Asia, Africa, Europe, and Antarctica, also passes right through the Pyramid. Since the Earth has enough land area to provide 3 billion possible building sites for the Pyramid, the odds of its having been built where it is are 1 in 3 billion.
Composition

Like 20th century bridge designs, the Pyramid's cornerstones have balls and sockets built into them. Several football fields long, the Pyramid is subject to expansion and contraction movements from heat and cold, as well as earthquakes, settling, and other such phenomena. After thousands of years it's structure would have been significantly damaged without such construction.


While the bulk of the Pyramid's core was constructed of 4,000- to 40,000-pound blocks of soft limestone, the outer layer of the Pyramid was made of a beautifully bright, protective layer of polished stone. These outer "casing stones" are missing today because about 600 years ago Arabs stole them, (This accounts for the very worn appearance of the Pyramid today, since the inner limestone blocks are not immune to attack by the elements-wind, rain, and sandstorms.) This protective covering was made up of 100-inch-thick, 20-ton block of hard, white limestone, similar to marble but superior in hardness and in durability against the elements.

The casing stones, 144,000 in all, were so brilliant that they could literally be seen from the mountains of Israel hundreds of miles away. On bright mornings and late afternoons, sunlight reflected by this vast mirrored surface of 5-1/4 acres distinguished the Pyramid as being visible from the moon.


The outside surface stones are cut within 0.01 (1/100th) inch of perfectly straight and at nearly perfect right angles for all six sides. They were placed together with an intentional gap between them of 0.02 inch. Modern technology cannot place such 20-ton stones with greater accuracy than those in the Pyramid.

Also, I saw on one site there were heiroglyphs of what appears to be grey aliens. May be they did say that aliens built the pyramids but somehow all they drew were "accidently lost"?

Aquatus1,

You have still not answered the majority of the questions, I will ask just 1 that I do not know. How were the egyptians able to cut the stone, and craft them in such designs as a giant casket, and pyramid stones ?.

Exactly. If you drop rocks onto the ground one by one, you'll eventually have a very very crude pyramid, or cone. The Egyptians just refined and stabilized that pile of rocks.

Hi, well that's my first post: And don't know if somebody will agree with me.

Well, I think humans did build the Pyramids, but not exacly the Egyptians. I think our Elder brothers, the Atlanteans and/or the Lemurians built those Pyramids, with the help of the Egyptian people maybe if not before the Egyptians actually existed.

Ever heard of "The Hollow Earth" . Thats one theory that got me thinking. Why aren't extraterrestrials that come in UFO's actually Humans that come from our own Earth. Ever taught of that. That where the Atlatians got refuge. thus an advanced civilization resides on our earth (in its hollow exacly)

I've been reading alot of things in this forum and in books and all over the web, and that's one of the major theories that may explain alot about the amazing unexplicable events that occured in history.

Look at the pyramyds made by the Incas, they are also marvelous. Remember Quetzacoalt, he was a stranger between his people, but he was human, and I read that he came in an areal vehicule( A flying saucer maybe...). And so maybe the Gods of Egypt were actually the same as Quetzacoalt.

This may open a new level of thinking and truth.
Don't forget that there is more to this World that meets the eye (I mean just look at the name of this site ) And believe that there is a huge conspiracy to hold that truth fro us.

That explains the amazing stuff said earlier by Mars (except for the grey aliens part)

(Hollow Earth theory with openings at the Poles: Marshal B. Gardner/William Reed)

why wuld there be any doubt that people built a pyramid?

Welcome to the UM forums Bog-Boss.

First of all, I have read a bit about that theory as well. My main argument is if there is indeed an advanced civilization underneath us, why do they not stop us from destroying the world ?

Nuclear Weapons , Ozone Layers , Global Warming, Meteors Hitting the World, and Ice Ages. These are just a small number of things that happen to the world that would impact them directly, why did they do nothing to stop it ?. You cannot suggest that these would not affect them under ground, because a nuclear strike does a lot of damage to the world as a whole.

Please tell me you're joking, Isis. There was nothing "simple" about building the pyramids. It was a construction of genius. Like the corbelled ceiling in the Great Pyramid. Without it, it would have collapsed by the pressure of the weight.

I don't think we give our ancestors the credit they deserve. I mean they were human beings just like us. They were probably just as intelligent as us, if not more! So I don't think it's impossible that humans & humans alone created the pyramids! If we can make all of this stuff we do today! We could have definately done it back then!

Correct, Marcus, we need to give them credit. There is no evidence that they were any less intelligent than we were. The Sumerians, for example, created the first automatic door.

As I said in my last post, I would not be available till Wednesday to response (and since it is late, I do not intend to do so now). Tomorrow, when I am a bit more awake, I will explain. In the meantine, please cease the aggressive tone. I made it clear that I had no intention of addressing the blitzkrieg you posted, so stating that I have not done so is pointless.

interesting stuff from mars! in those days people did not have the intelllect as us as their words was limited so was their tools . if they was so great in building what happened to them why didn't the romans learn from them, why didn't we learn from them since we learned from the romans???

Words and tools do not necessarily reflect intellect. Take an idiot savant for example.
The average person doesn't go around building a car from scratch. Does this mean they are lacking in intellect? No. It just means they don't know how to build a car from scratch.

idiot savant, nice.

we did learn from the egyptions though, countless middle eastern kingdoms ransakd their librarys enough. Pretty much all greek mathamatics and philosphies[not really all ok, but a lot] were stolen from Egypt.

Thanks,

Well maybe they did interfere, I mean when did the first Ufo's of modern times most appear, it was after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, this to stop the world from further atrocities that might destroy us and them. This might not be very persuasive but it's a clue. And trought history they were making appearances to help humans by teaching them culture, ethics and other things, such as architecture.

And indeed we did learn a lot from the Egyptians. and from other ancient civilisations such as the babylons (who got their libraries all burned by the Mongol invasion). But why isn't there anything speaking about the construction of the pyramids?

for as much as people say the egyptians built them, no egyptian ever took credit for it and set it down in stone that he was their builder, we simply gues-timated when they were built and who would have been the Pharoh then and attributed him with it. Pretty flimsy archaelogical reasoning if u ask me. UFO's were seen before then, in the case of Foo Fighters reported by RAF and Russian fighter pilots, to the point the brittish crown and air force sdet up official programmes to investigate, after the war it was all possibly forgotten about. But with the Nazi's having flying saucer aircraft at the end of the war, its all a bit weird.

the congregation shall await the coming of wednesday and your revelations with trembling anticipation.....

yes anybody can lay one stone block on top of another and eventually end up with a pyramid shaped edifice.
But the ancient egyptians didnt do that. They worked on an ingenious design that would result in a mathematically perfect tetrahedron built upon a solid rock base that the egyptians had taken great care to survey accurately for its ability to support the weight of the finished pyramid. They knew how to do this only because they knew the weight of the finished product. they knew exactly what they were doing, how they were going to do it and what they were doing it for.
Every block of stone that went into the construction was of a specific size for a specific reason. They knew that it would have been far easier to have built the Pyramid from square limestone blocks weighing 1,000 lbs but they chose blocks weighing over 2 tons because they knew that the larger blocks once interlocked with each other would produce a monument that would be far more resistant to earthquake and any other natural cataclysmic event like flooding. Dont forget that the great Pyramid is not only airtight but watertight and over the millenia since it was built has been largely unaffected by the numerous earthquakes in the region that destroyed the majority of the other buildings.
Nothing about the great pyramids makes any sense unless you want to believe that the egyptians were making a statement about themselves and mankind in general.
The internal passageways and chambers within the great pyramid are an engineering marvel even by today's standards. And again the egyptians didnt build them randomly. They went to enormous lengths to design the internal spaces to withstand the stresses placed on them by the mass of weight above and they knew what those stresses were.
But the egyptians were not happy to merely build an earthquake and water -proof gleaming white tetrahedron that would stand forever as a beacon of man's ability and determination. They made one final statement. A statement that boasted of their understanding of mathematics - they built an 8 sided tetrahedron! View the great pyramid normally under normal lighting conditions and you would see a 4 sided tetrahedron. View it under specific lighting conditions and you will see the concavity that the builders incorporated into the sides and you will see an 8 sided tetrahedron.

IF we do agree that aliens or highly advanced people from Atlantis/Lemuria built the pyramids then it all makes sense. They could have the ability to form a building like that. But the only problem is why would they build it? What possesses an advanced race to create a structure like that?

to teach future humanity about mathamatics and time, basicaly it contains information thatd last a very long time, so that after say certain geological disastours itll still be there so we wont forget the level of technology we had once acheived.

Ahhh, if only I had something grander to say...

As some of you know, I have many demands on my time, although I will usually try to spare a half hour in the morning and evening to post in this fantastic forum. I dislike making the sort of declarative statements I am about to make without posting sources, but I haven't had the time. I will promise this, though: if you are unwilling to take my word or accept my logic, I will happily spend some time on my weeked to find the sources that will allow you to get a second opinion on what I say.

Now that the disclaimer is out of the way, the question asked was how the ancient Egyptians worked the hard stone that makes up parts of the pyramid.

The first thing to realize is that the stonework on the pyramid is the same as the stonework on all the Egyptian temples, tombs, and other masonry. When this question is asked in context of the pyramid, the implication is that this is a problem that applies solely to the Great Pyramid, and not the the other 100+ pyramids in the area, or the thousands of buildings and temples that they built. The ancient Egyptians were a good several hundred years advanced in the art of stonemasonry, compared to the other civilizations, and working the granite, while tedious, was nothing mysterious. It was, in fact, commonplace.

Now, granite comes in various forms, of course, and the great majority of the pyramid is made from the softer sort that can be worked relatively well with the copper tools. By the great majority, what I am refering to is the 'fill-in' stone used inside the pyramid. Unlike the harder andesite granite that made up the load-bearing walls of the corridor and the outer framework of the pyramid (not to be confused with the limestone facing), this granite was generally cut into rough-hewn blocks approximately 2x2x2 feet in dimension, weighing roughly from half-a-ton to two tons. The sole purpose of these blocks was to support the weight above them, so the precision and degree that we see in the external casings was not needed here. The gaps between these blocks was filled in with rubble, most likely from the excavations that were going on simultaneously for the chambers built into the bedrock.

The question, then, isn't about the softer stones (I trust the logic of working a soft stone with a hard tool makes sense to all here?), but rather of the harder, more precisely cut stone which makes the pyramid's accuracy so famous. This granite's hardness is just below that of the copper tools the Egyptians used. To attempt to shape the hard stone with these tools would lead to rapid dulling, and a single block would require an army of coppersmithys to keep the stonemason working steadily. Fortunately, the Egyptians had better ways.

The rough-hewn blocks were made in the same way that the softer blocks where made. Instead of using the copper tools for fine work, they were instead used for basic chiseling. Deep and narrow holes were made in tight rows, and then stuffed with a dried, porous wood. A small barrier of clay was placed around the hole, and water was poured into it. Over the period of 24 hours, the water would soak into the wood, making it expand, and eventually making the large granite block split off from the original piece. Smaller blocks were made in the same way, until the block was in managable 10 ton pieces that could be maneuvered around by experienced quarrymen.

So, how do we get from a rough-hewn block of hard granite to the smooth surface that would be needed for the casing and framework? The sides of the block are pitted with bumps and hollows, and, again, using copper tools would be costly and time consuming, due to the slight difference in hardness. The Egyptians employed a different solution. They used a hard stone called dolerite, fashioned into round hammers. They quite literally 'banged' the rough surfaces of the block down, pulverising the bumps until a smooth, flat surface remained. Depending on the degree of flatness they need, they would then use an abrasive mixture of quartz sand to finish it off. It was time-consuming and labor-intensive, however it was leaps and bounds ahead of the technology employed by most other societies, who were still trying to unravel the mysteries of the mud-brick.

What has made this a mystery is viewing the past through the eyes of the present. In the modern era, we tend to view things from the brute force approach. Using hardened steels and tungsten tips, we rip out granite from the ground on our own terms. With motorized grinders and buffers, we shape and polish stone. When we hear about the ancient Egyptians employin soft copper on hard stone, we try and invision a copper blade sawing a block in half, much as our blade do. Obviously, this would be a total failure. Copper is simply not strong enough. In the ancient past, technique was the key to everything. Copper chisels dulled quickly, but were easy to sharpen, unlike copper blades. Dolerite hammers, for all intents and purposes, shaped themselves; as they wore down on one side, the stonemason merely turned the tool to a different face and continued.

I apologize for the short blurb, and I will be happy to expand on any questions that anyone might have.

For the third or more time, a pyramid is not a tetrahedron. A four-sided tetrahedron is a pyramid. It is no longer a tetrahedron of any variety. A tetrahedron refers to a structure composed entirely of triangles.

Edit: Proof of this is here: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tetrahedron

Note that it states a tetrahedron has four faces; I anticipate your misinterpretation of this and remind you that a pyramid has five faces, or in the case of the great pyramid, nine.

Eight sides!!!!!!!!!! the great pyramid Cheops is the only pyramid that turns in on its self. This concave effect is not visible from the ground. It was discovered quite by accident in 1940 by a British Air Force pilot, P. Groves, he was flying over the pyramid. He happened to notice the concavity and captured it in the now-famous photograph. The centres of the four sides are indented to an extraordinary degree of accuracy and form the only eight sided pyramid known. All pyramids in the ancient world were bespoke, one off’s to be copied and improved on. From the step pyramid at Saqqara the Meidum pyramid and the bent pyramid at Dahshur all evolved improving on their structural stability. Pyramid building was an evolving process; techniques of construction must have changed from one project to another. So why did the builders of this monument alter its shape, what advantage did this concave effect have? Many theories have been suggested, they were intended to increase the stability of the pyramid's mantle [i.e. casing stones]" (The Pyramids, 2001, p. 195).
Flinders Petrie noticed a hollowing in the core masonry in the centre of each face and wrote that he "continually observed that the courses of the core had dips of as much as ½° to 1°" (The Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh, 1883, p. 421).John Williams, author of Williams' Hydraulic Theory to Cheops' Pyramid wrote that "the only advantage that I can see - and it is a great one - for having a concave face on a structure is to contain extremely high internal pressures - the type of pressures that would result from using a hydraulic method of my description. Think of this in terms of an egg shell, arch or gabling." This explanation is also voiced by other purveyors of the "pump-theory" such as Edward J. Kunkel (author of The Pharaoh's Pump, 1962) and Richard Noone (author of 5/5/2000: Ice: The Ultimate Disaster, 1982)
It’s my contention that the flail prevented angular friction caused by the lateral force exerted on the rising stone. So the solution to counter act this lateral force, is to angle the ramp inward towards the centre of the pyramid. Now the direction of pull is parallel to the ramp (the rope A is parallel to the ramp B this is a scaled down version but I think you will get the idea), the effect of lateral friction against the rising stone will disappear compared to the previous pictures. If this is the case we can deduce that the great pyramid did in-fact have four ramp entrances. A practical zig zag ramp system was now in place, positioned on each of the four sides of the pyramid also the ability to stop and rest at each stage of the stones assent, takes the risk out of the construction. If this change in design was to prevent the persistent use of the flail and the problems associated with lateral friction. One can deduce that pyramids that don't display the eight sided design, should show evidence of the flails past use on the central wall and support this theory. This concave effect also leads one to theorise that to obtain the best possible angle horizontally and vertically the djed was positioned at the outer most edge of the pyramid ( see previous posts). If this was the case, the potential to lift a further block simultaneously on the opposite sides of the pyramid comes into play. The single ramp theory and the spiral ramp all have one entrance. The men in that scenario move the stones to the construction site and more importantly return to the quarry for their next stone. Having your men relatively stationary, just using the energy to rotate the Djed machine would take the strain out of the construction. Now four djed winches positioned at each corner of the pyramid could simultaneously lift eight blocks. The maximum angle the tow rope can comfortably work at is approximately 40 degrees (variable), whereas the ramp angle for the ascending stone is fixed at 10 degrees.(again see past posts).
Also it seems more than a coincidence that there is a Nile Delta town called Zagazig?
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It is obvious that giant Egyptian fire ants built the pyramids--they are just big anthills that have weathered into their present shapes. LOL & Happy Holidays!

here is an picture showing clearly the concavity:
http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/GpyrMM.html

I was wondering how long you would resist rising to the bait hee hee

I was wondering if you would question what aquatus1 wrote. Hee hee