I was not going to say anything, But the fact you said the details of a crime you said you did in open form... well that just goes to show how smart you really are..Plus it tell's everyone who read it your moral stance... And you guy's say Bush did a crime on 9/11 well i find all that funny myself.. But i guess SS you now a crook when you see one uh..LOL...

Here are a few things for the official story believers to ponder:

1) All evidence of the act of hi-jacking an airplane that is already in the air would be on the plane. How did they know exactly who committed that hi-jacking. "they have passenger lists." And does that list tell you who did it, or does that list tell you who borded the plane? "they found Ids of all of the terrorists." I can imagine it now.

Hair color: brown Eyes: brown Committed hi-jacking: Yes

2) Those 4 planes where off course (Flights have set courses to follow and adjust to wind to continue on that same path) for over 2 hours. The first plane hits the WTC and is now off radar... awile later next one hits; it too is now off the radar...
Then about 30 minutes later the pentagon gets hit?? F-16s are set up near the pentagon already because unlike NY the pentagon has restricted airspace. F-16s would have taken at most 15 minutes to intercept that 3rd plane in open space. At the pentagon It would be much shorter. They did not, however shoot it down.
-The United States has the most advanced Air Force
-F-16s The worlds best interceptors

3) Don't assume that it would take 1,000 people to take out the world trade center when the official story says it was 19 guys. Compartmentalization is how you keep things secret. All the parts of your car together make it run. one part alone is just a part. The spark plug only has to make a spark, it does not have to know what that spark is for. That spark plug doesn't need to know that the front wheels are connected to the steering wheel. Only one thing in that car has to know all the parts or atleast use all the parts. That is the human driving it.

Threats work quite nicely. Threatening your future, your life, your families future and your families life. That would keep a lot of people quiet. My theory is that most of the people who knew were the higher ups and they wanted us to think it was the terrorists, so they wouldn't come out and admit what they did.

4) President Bush claims Iraq 9/11 connection.

5) Bush now jokes about not finding WMDs. I don't think it's funny at all. <--want to know a secret, I was for the war. Yep I even kept on defending the administration saying to people that just wait they'll find the WMDs you will see.
As time went by I stopped lying to myself. I feel embarrased that Bush is representing us as a nation.

6) Bin Laden is not caught, but then again who would want 50 million dollars?

7) Former Minister of Defence/Minister of technology for Germany wrote a book about the cover-up of 9/11
Minister of Defence = secretary of defence so he is germany's donald rumsfeld.
He was also the minister of technology. Just to make that clear in your minds. How is that for credibility?

8) I will not accuse anyone of being stupid, besides my quote. but thats not naming names...

I will accuse you of being misled because IF I am right then that is exactly what you are, mis-led. Mis-led by the administration that mis-led us about WMD, That mis-led us about chemical labs in Iraq, That mis-led us into the war in Iraq.


-MuddyFrog

What would bush gain from flying those planes into the towers? Oil you say? Well show me some proof of him getting money in the bank from it and I will truely be stunned. But I promise you there is none.

bravo!! excellent points! the witnesses and their testimonies are also a major force keeping the truth movement going--non-believers never comment on the multitude of video clips of witnesses all clearly describing bombs,explosions,secondary devices, detonators,pops and many more examples too numerous to list--important people with high rank and important jobs keep coming forward and telling their tale and not backing down from them either--here is an update from a protest at GROUND ZERO on 9//11/05 where many of these people reiterated their complete conviction that 9/11 was an inside job and that the towers were demolished including bldg7--on top of Morgan reynolds,who was the chief economist in the labor dept for Bush's entire first term,and Karl Schwartz who was one of the lead republicans who orchestrated the rep takeover of congress,who came forward and denounced the official story crediting his areonautical expertise in visually identifying the second aircraft that hit the towers as a 737 and confirming it based on the images of the engine taken on murray street,there were many firefighters and police personel that are steadfast in their conviction that the govt was responsible for orchestrating 9/11--update article
****************************************************************

‘BOMBS INSIDE WTC’

FIRE OFFICER SAYS FIREMEN, COPS KNOW TRUTH

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By Victor Thorn

NEW YORK CITY, N.Y.—On the morning of Sept. 11, 2005, New York City auxiliary fire lieutenant Paul Isaac Jr. asserted, yet again, that 9-11 was an inside job. “I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it’s an inside job; and the firemen know it too,” said Isaac.

The ramifications of this statement are immense: One of New York’s own firefighters says publicly that 9-11 couldn’t have been the work of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, but instead was planned, coordinated and executed by elements within our own government.

He also added, after pointing to throngs of police officers standing around us, that, “We all have to be very careful about how we handle it.”

Isaac reiterated what a 9-11 survivor told this journalist during our protest at Ground Zero on Sept. 11, 2005—that emergency radios were buzzing with information about bombs being detonated inside the World Trade
Center towers.

Also, Isaac directly addressed a gag order that has been placed on firemen and police officers in New York.

“It’s amazing how many people are afraid to talk for fear of retaliation or losing their jobs,” said Isaac, regarding the FBI gag order placed on law enforcement and fire department officials, preventing them from openly talking about any inside knowledge of 9-11. There is more information related to Isaac circulating in on-line and print reports, so here again we are hearing first-hand evidence from individuals who were on the scene, such as live witness William Rodriguez, saying that the World Trade Center towers were brought down not by the airliner’s impact or the resulting jet fuel fires, but instead by a deliberately executed controlled demolition.

Tragically, due to heavy-handed pressure from officials at the city, state and federal levels, we are still not hearing the entire story.

Researcher Vincent Sammartino, who was also at the WTC “open grave site” on the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2005, wrote the following on the on-line news web site APFN: “I just got back from Ground Zero. People know the truth. Half of the police and firemen were coming up to us and telling us that they know that 9-11 was an inside job. They were told not to talk about it. But they were supporting what we were doing. I had tears in my eyes.”
link

Bush sr as well as Bin Laden sr sit on the board of directors for the Carlyle Group who have profitted hundreds of millions in defense construction contracts as well as light armored vehicle contracts--its public record and indisputable--i wont link it though as you will not heed its importance--

They can't do that unless they use a source that has less credit then some people we know now. There was no reason for bush to do this at all. I have heard it was oil..Ok where is the oil, where is the NWo take over, where is any of the thing's these people claim to be true. The more i hear all this the less it makes sense for the simple reason that.. None of what they say has happen nor has there been any sound proof only alot of hear say and empty theory's.


Plus just let me add.. To many people died that day for us to show such disrepect by talking about this as if it was just another day.

Why is it, that when a rank-and-file worker claims that which supports these theorists, it is supposed to be accepted a 'fact', but when qualified, licensed engineers, or eyewitnesses claim the opposite, they are said to be lying?

That is the only way JP the people who believe this nosense have to explain their theory's...

you mean rank and file workers that were present and eye witnesses to the event over qualified, licensed engineers that werent there?--and please give an example of "how" another eyewitness can claim the opposite of anything--eye witnesses can only give their testimony and opinion--if you are saying there are opinions expressed by eye witnesses that credulate the govt version please by all means link to them and use them in your debate--video would be preferred--im waiting

Why is it that you guys ignore my post?

That is the real question.

Try to explain each thing I posted please

It's not too long I'm sure you guys can all read and then type to respond... Right?

And as far as I know No expert looked at actual evidence. They made theories on paper.
So Jmpd do you believe everyone then? People believe one and not the other because
they are saying the opposite thing. You cannot believe both.

Nothing came of 9/11 ya say? Try patriot act 1, Patriot act 2 (2 may or may not have passed not sure). That and Bush wanted to go to Iraq long before he actually addmitted it.
I do not however think that Bush is really behind anything. That is what a lot of people misinterpret. I think Bush is just dumb enough to believe what he is told.

For Motive Look at operation Northwoods. Just google it if you have not read it already.

For some idea of what our government can hide check out declassified docs. You can see a large collection of declassified docs at www.blackvault.com

and once again to remind you guys...

Read My Last Post And Respond To It.

-MuddyFrog

Conspiracie, I thought so
just my opinion thought it was an excuse to go to war
and for "SOMEONE" to look better when the elections came around again.
hmmm..if they can test the atomic bomb on our on soliders they can do anything
sh**, I hope the men in black don't show up at my door tonight..YIKES!!!!

"1) All evidence of the act of hi-jacking an airplane that is already in the air would be on the plane. How did they know exactly who committed that hi-jacking. "they have passenger lists." And does that list tell you who did it, or does that list tell you who boarded the plane? "they found Ids of all of the terrorists." I can imagine it now.

Hair color: brown Eyes: brown Committed hi-jacking: Yes"

I'm sure they KNEW it was them who hi-jacked the planes because of classified evidence they cannot release to the public.

"2) Those 4 planes where off course (Flights have set courses to follow and adjust to wind to continue on that same path) for over 2 hours. The first plane hits the WTC and is now off radar... awol later next one hits; it too is now off the radar...
Then about 30 minutes later the pentagon gets hit?? F-16s are set up near the pentagon already because unlike NY the pentagon has restricted airspace. F-16s would have taken at most 15 minutes to intercept that 3rd plane in open space. At the pentagon It would be much shorter. They did not, however shoot it down.
-The United States has the most advanced Air Force
-F-16s The worlds best interceptors"

They tried to shoot them down, they scrambled to do so but were too late.

"3) Don't assume that it would take 1,000 people to take out the world trade center when the official story says it was 19 guys. Compartmentalization is how you keep things secret. All the parts of your car together make it run. one part alone is just a part. The spark plug only has to make a spark, it does not have to know what that spark is for. That spark plug doesn't need to know that the front wheels are connected to the steering wheel. Only one thing in that car has to know all the parts or atleast use all the parts. That is the human driving it."

It WOULD take thousands of people to coordinate this so perfectly, all military personnel who you claim let the planes hit the towers would have to be in on it and did nothing anyway. The people they put on the planes to hi-jack them... There would have to be the people who planted the supposed bombs, and the people who told them to do so, and the people to told THEM to do so and so on. The entire Bush administration would have to be in on this to make it work, and countless of their little butlers who do their deeds would be in on it too. It would take THOUSANDS if not TEN's OF THOUSANDS to coordinate this thing.
And no in the official story it wasn't just 19 guys who made it work it was their leaders and all of the coordination within the attack to make it possible.

"4) President Bush claims Iraq 9/11 connection."

He has access to information that I promise you don't have access to.

"5) Bush now jokes about not finding WMDs. I don't think it's funny at all. <--want to know a secret, I was for the war. Yep I even kept on defending the administration saying to people that just wait they'll find the WMDs you will see.
As time went by I stopped lying to myself. I feel embarrased that Bush is representing us as a nation."

I think it is rediculous that he makes fun about that too. He is definitely a trashy president.

"6) Bin Laden is not caught, but then again who would want 50 million dollars?"

Have you ever been in the hills of the Afghanistan and Pakistan border? No, you haven't. There are caves EVERYWHERE, the mountains look like cheddar cheese, and the caves often go miles into the mountains, I am not surprised they can't find him.

"7) Former Minister of Defence/Minister of technology for Germany wrote a book about the cover-up of 9/11
Minister of Defence = secretary of defence so he is germany's donald rumsfeld.
He was also the minister of technology. Just to make that clear in your minds. How is that for credibility?"

Good for him, I wonder how many books were written by important people who SUPPORT the official story. I'm certain it is ALOT more than those who support the conspiracy theory.

"8) I will not accuse anyone of being stupid, besides my quote. but thats not naming names...

I will accuse you of being misled because IF I am right then that is exactly what you are, mis-led. Mis-led by the administration that mis-led us about WMD, That mis-led us about chemical labs in Iraq, That mis-led us into the war in Iraq."

Bush got his info from bad places that is for sure. Now I'm not saying the weapons are there but how can you possibly know %100 sure they are not there. They can bury complete jet fighters under the sand in Iraq, they've done it! Don't pretend you know for absolute sure there are no weapons labs. That dessert is endless and could hold countless secrets.

Perhaps it is YOU who have been misled by your military friends running their conpiracy theory ridden mouths off.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a video cam with me at the time.
But I'm sure that you will state that my eyewitness account of the day is biased.

surely not sir!! i will only point out that there are many "more" witnesses with better credentials who "were" recorded an video--surely you could supply just one example of an opinion that collaborates the official story

Right like janitor you mentioned before

yes of course. What kind of evidence could that be? That is what I am asking. think about this for a second. The plane is in the air. Then is hi-jacked. Everyone on the plane knows who did it. no one else could have known.



show me that one, you know evidence. Too late... Look at the cesna airplanes you know the little teenie tiny airplanes. They get 2 F-16s on their wings Real quick. If 30 minutes is not long enough then anyone can crash into the pentagon at any time.



Don't assume that. It was very far from perfect. If it was perfect I wouldn't be here right now saying it was an inside job now would I? I would say it's closer to 50 people who kind of know whats going on 10 guys with the whole picture about 250 who are less informed. So I say 310. The military was not involved in any way. They didn't scramble those jets for a reason. That reason is the drill that was going on. The pentagon says something like this: "We have a bogey heading our way. Do we have permission to take it out?"
Reply "It is only a drill don't worry about it."


Yet he expects me to just believe him? Or you expect me to just believe you?

Good Im glad you think that

NO, have you? I know what it looks like.
Ask the FBI about that one


I am certain it is not. I love how sure of everything you are.




Yes he did get bad info. It came from one of our allies by the way. Can you guess which one? ...Israel...
No my military friends DO NOT think it was an inside job. I have already said that though.
The desert is endless? uh-oh I hope are troops can get back

I would more say this... "The desert is about the size of california."

we gave them WMDs awile back but of course they no longer had those. The UN looked for around a year of so they didn't find anything. The UN said let us finish our search but we didn't we went in against the wishes of the UN and many other nations. If bush has all this info that we can't see then how come he could only convince about one useful country to go with us to Iraq?


-MuddyFrog

"no one else could have known."

Actually, there is a little invention that was available at the time called a "cellular phone" you see. The people on the plane could have, and DID call their loved ones and tell them what was going on. I have heard these calls myself.

"Don't assume that. It was very far from perfect. If it was perfect I wouldn't be here right now saying it was an inside job now would I? I would say it's closer to 50 people who kind of know whats going on 10 guys with the whole picture about 250 who are less informed. So I say 310. The military was not involved in any way. They didn't scramble those jets for a reason. That reason is the drill that was going on. The pentagon says something like this: "We have a bogey heading our way. Do we have permission to take it out?"
Reply "It is only a drill don't worry about it.""

I love how you say this was the work of the NWO or Illuminati or what have you, which you claim secretly controls THE ENTIRE WORLD, and then you can stand there and be like "oh, well not that many people knew about it."

"Ask the FBI about that one"

I would if I didn't already know their response.

"Yes he did get bad info. It came from one of our allies by the way. Can you guess which one? ...Israel...
No my military friends DO NOT think it was an inside job. I have already said that though.
The desert is endless? uh-oh I hope are troops can get back"

Your little jabs at my obvious figure of speach shows me you lack a true arguement...

"The UN looked for around a year of so they didn't find anything. The UN said let us finish our search but we didn't we went in against the wishes of the UN and many other nations. If bush has all this info that we can't see then how come he could only convince about one useful country to go with us to Iraq?"

I don't support the presidents reasons for the invasion of Iraq, but nice try at insulting me.

THANKYOU.

Would I listen to Richard Nixon give advice on ethics of course not. The credibilty of an admitted criminal is less than nothing and that is the point.

My moral stance is closer to those who rule the world. To them, their actions are based on business and morality can mean weakness, when money is the goal. They don't care about you. And that's my flaw. I think most people are idiots, but I do try my best to be nice to them.

Yes I do know a crook when I see one. I was a bad kid.

When I was a kid, I wanted to grow up to be a bank robber. Not a doctor to save lives. It wasn't until I found God, and changed my life a couple of years ago that I had absolute contempt for all of humanity. Now I try to do the opposite.

Sounds like you must have lost god and are still a bad kid if you acting as a lookout for a robbery. You have no crediblity at all. Sorry this is the truth. Whats next the banks?

Then tell me which public figure does have credibility. I could dig up the dirt.

Those who died on 9/11 were a necessary sacrifice for the greater good of the new world order. It was a business decision. You can't let your feelings get in the way. The ruthless will run right over you. That's how you get to the top. You must think everyone in the government is good like you. All it takes is one bad apple to screw the whole thing up. It's the ones at the top of the pyramid of power who are corrupt. And then the ones below them who don't know the whole situation, and just do their job. We need to start talking about the government whistle blowers who are very credible who say our own government is very likly responsible for 9/11 or intentionally let it happened. I think Sunofone is compiling a list somewhere.

If you want to go and ignore certain facts and make your own conclusions go ahead. America is being misled. Not one of the skeptics can refute anything we have presented. All they do is ignore it. Because if they didn't their whole world view is flawed, and it's easier to stay in your comfort zone. Cover your ears. Your not going to want to hear this, but 9/11 was an inside job. If you don't want to believe me, there are thousands of innocent people who know what I know, and what you don't know.

Maybe the government does lie, but now we know you do as well.

I didn't say NWO did I?

And I was not making jabs at you; the desert thing was a joke, sorry if it didn't sound like it.
I don't see me attacking you at all. Don't take it so personally please. If you read back through I insulted Bush not you silly.

-MuddyFrog

come on bright spark of course there going to be witnessess on video contradicting the official storey thats what you call news. its not a very good news story if its the same as the official one. and in ur previous post on this thread u say there was witnesses saying they heard bombs this has already been explained on a previous thread and in the same thread i've also proved that u misquote and twist statements. so lets here something new and something thats not been twisted by u or someone else, when u research u shouldn't just look up things that back up ur theory look into it a bit deeper and u will stop looking so stupid all the time

ROFLMAO .... you show me the link to footage of a plane flying into the pentagon !!


hahahahahaha ....

next thing you're gonna tell me that a 757 on-board computer allowed an inexperienced pilot to make a 4+ "G" turn ??? It's impossible.

you'll also be telling me that the interviews live on TV from that day were all set up's and the maitenece guy's and the firemen who saw and heard these explosions throughout the building were ALL lying in perfect harmony ???



Naivety indeed !!



sorry if i'm beinga bit trollish on this ..... but there is no footage or photograph available except from that CCTV at the gas station ..and all we ever saw was a big zero.

I'll believe independent eyewitness accounts over "da gubmint crap" anyday.

The biggest conspiracy theory is that a bloke sitting in a cave in Afghanistan was responsible.

Hallmarks ?? The king David hotel , The lavon affair , USS Liberty ...the list goes on ....

I've got the vid's here BTW and heaps of info ... it all say's Mossad.

G'day Muddy !!

you'll like this one



Name every country who has set up a "channel" to sell oil in "other than US$" ??

Guess what ?? They've all been silenced by the USA.

All of them , each of them ....the "~!@#$%^&" lot mate !!!

Simple really ... they were ordered to "stand down" ....check it out

no mystery there

That would be Daniel Levin ....he's the Israeli that the stewardess said was killing the passengers !!!

This came out early on in the piece IIRC

you are making some big assumptions here ...either that or it's a strawman tactic ...

why ?? cause they all thought they were on a training exercise ....an amazingly similar scenario was used on 7/7 in london


when people caught on they had another "false one" with a patsy to take everybody's mind off 7thJul bombing ...i.e. we were told we would see "CCTV Footage" of the 4 bombers together at Kings Cross station ..... all we got was a Fake "photoshopped" still from Luton station.


.... this explains why the f-16's were stood down !!!

The pieces fit quite well ... ask yourself cui bono ???

You will find that there is only one "perfect fit" and it isn't Osama ..... and he told us so .

does everyone remember the "taliban government" saying they would hand over Osama if the US could produce evidence ???


It was on all the mainstream news .... does it make you wonder .... they still cant convict anyone



Please tell me if i am wrong !!

Hey, leo_lunar_tick.
Good...
Someone else knows of the london drill on 7/7.

That was my point about the F-16s is that the only way they wouldn't make it is if they were told not to. I don't know why other people don't see that as weird.

The training exercise is london was "how will we handle a train bombing" in the exact locations the bombs blew up, At the exact same time they blew up. That is Kind of coincidental don't you think?


-MuddyFrog

you are making some big assumptions here


That line applies to the entire conspiract THEORY!

some people don't like a challenge .... they're the head in the sand crowd .


but , pragmatically speaking , this "belief" factor is the problem ...... it's a bit like arguing the bible ....some people worship the book in preference to the deity , even when presented with simple things.

the loopholes require a simple proof or "simple questions" ..... like ....... what about the eyewitness accounts ??? ....and if GW and da boyz are so happy they know who did it ...then show us .....again ...very very simple ....they've said they have "footage" of the pentagon attack ...then just us a still of "nothing" .... "NOTHING" !!!!

Does that remind you of what i said up there ^^^^^^ (previous post) ... about the 7/7 london bombing ???

The USA had an anthrax "diversion" IIRC ....... the similarities of Modus Operandi are striking to say the least .

Who was Daniel Levin ??? answer that and we're getting closer ...also don't forget that these "conspirators were themselves victims of Passport fraud ...... seen any passport fraud say ..in NZ , Canada , Thailand , Bangladesh all in the last 4 years or so ...... all Israeli Government employees it would seem ...... bet your lurker mate will dismiss this as not important ...... i say it is another hallmark .... and an easily recognised one !!!

and what have i said that was "theoretical" ??

answer ...not a thing !!!!

but , by all means , "carry on" ...... tell us the rest of your "implanted thoughts"

Either that or show me a hole a plane can fit through ..... and check the broken windows in the pic's ...... this was no plane baby !!!

Or explain how a cessna pilot disabled the flight computer , the transponder , etc etc ...and then (as all good cessna pilotsare able to do ) pull a 4+"G" turn in a boeing 757/767............

please oh please show me the ~!@#$% pictures or ~!@#$ right off OK ?? ( what i am saying is if you have anything apart from heresay then "show" me !!

again ...real simple ...real basic ....should be easy for a mental giant such as yourself !!

Actually that arguement has been done over and over and yes there are pictures of "plane" parts etc at Pentagon. Transponder "theory" already disproved. None of us know enough about plane to say turn could or couldnt be made in fact do we even know at what point terrorist took control of planes flight? The biggest factor mostly ignored by therorist is the hundred if not thousands that would have to be involved in this bizzare NWO plan and not a one had a slip and told! That is virtually impossible. we all saw plane hit WTC we all saw them fall. The entire theory makes no sense in order to use this as war plan you need not hit Pentagon WTC would be enough! If NWO exist as calimed then there would be some installed in Pentagon why attack it? If something other than plane hit Pentagon why use plane on WTc and one that crashed. Cell phone calls to loved one support hijack claim etc etc I am sorry I will NOT live in this paranoid world without reasonable evidence it exist which so far hasnt happened. Have we been told everything of course not we never have been but a few teenagers and people in there early 20's have all the answers from there jobs at burgerking no sorry cant swallow it

Tsk Tsk panther...
Don't insult peoples intelligence k?

Their
there
they're



Leo is in azerbajian by the way.
Do you guys have bugerking over there?

obfuscation ...you are a shill sir !!Stay on topic or get off , if you have to engage in ad hominem attacks to stop others getting a fair hearing , then , using your logic , you have ZERO to offer ......

we all saw it on TV ...and i've got the library ..or access to it at least .... we all saw thw size of the hole in the pentagon and the unbroken windows.

[quote name='muddyfrog' date='Sep 28 2005, 03:27 PM' post='864389']
Here are a few things for the official story believers to ponder:

1) All evidence of the act of hi-jacking an airplane that is already in the air would be on the plane. How did they know exactly who committed that hi-jacking. "they have passenger lists." And does that list tell you who did it, or does that list tell you who borded the plane? "they found Ids of all of the terrorists." I can imagine it now. [quote]




Thanx i forgot this ...... maybe our mates can write GW and ask for the video of all the people getting on the plane ....

simple huh ???

Why won't they show us the footage of these guy's ....and everyone else ( incl. Daniel Lewin) as well !!


simple simple simple .... so far all the stuff i've read here say's cover-up ....and it generally only covers the guilty.

It only says cover up if you want it to. The most simple explanation is usually the right one. Not everything is a conspiracy.

The most simple explanatoin that makes sense is usualy the correct one you mean.

The official story doesn't fit.

If it's because they have info we don't have then LET US SEE IT!

If it's because they are lying then we have to figure out what did happen.

Either way you look at it we don't have all the pieces.

Isn't it funny...

...how not long after the collapses of the towers, numerous Joe Bloggs structural engineers claimed that the towers collapsed because "the jet fuel melted the steel", and yet it was the independent investigators who pointed out the fact that burning jet fuel cannot reach the temperatures required to melt steel, putting these supposed "experts" to shame.

Isn't it funny...

...how coincidence theorists can claim that controlled demolition of the WTC towers would be impossible due to the thousands of cutting charges, man-hours and personnel required, and yet they can in the same breath, confidently state that the towers obliterated themselves all over Manhattan and collapsed down to the very pavement because of column failures at one floor. And furthermore that WTC7 collapsed in a perfect controlled demolition fashion due to a couple of relatively weak fires.

Isn't it funny...

...how NIST spent all those years and millions of dollars researching the collapses, but they never managed to reproduce the physics of the collapses by computer model, and they never addressed the explosion squibs that sprang out all over the buildings and were staring them in the face in every video of the collapses.

Isn't it funny...

...how the testimony of structural engineers and architects who never even went near the buildings is paraded about as proof that the fires caused the collapses, and yet the ones who actually designed and made the buildings, who stated that the structures were built to withstand 707 airliners crashing into them, who stated that flying a plane into a WTC tower would be like poking a pen through a mosquito net, who expressed utter disbelief that the towers collapsed the way they did - their testimony is answered with "they don't know what they're talking about".

Isn't it funny...

...how Orwellian newspeak terms like "progressive global collapse", "runaway collapse" and "pancake collapse" were never ever seen in structural engineering terminology or science before 9-11, and now suddenly the industry is infested with them. Nor has reproduction of the expected effects of the hypothesis ever been witnessed before in the history of construction, or since.

Isn't it funny...

...how Larry Silverstein, the owner of WTC1, 2 & 7, admitting on video that WTC7 was pulled is explained away with semantic arguments, and yet a grainy video of some fat guy that looks nothing Osama Bin laden claiming responsibility for the attacks, is touted by coincidence theorists as "hard evidence" and a "damning confession".

Isn't it funny...

...how after the '93 WTC bombing, FEMA in it's report stated the building survived the attack with barely a scratch because the towers were amongst the strongest buildings in the world, yet immediately after the 2001 collapses they said the buildings were extremely flawed and weak in their construction.

Isn't it funny...

...how even a bleary-eyed, backwater high-school physics teacher could tell you that there was insufficient potential gravitational energy in a WTC tower to collapse it to the ground, break all the steel welds, pulverize the concrete into nano-dust, expel debris hundreds of feet away, and cover Manhattan in such a gargantuan dust cloud - without the addition of another energy source.

Isn't it funny...

...how coincidence theorists assert that only kooks and crackpots doubt the official story, and yet the increasing number of FBI agents, firemen, police officers, former Bush cabinet members, air traffic controllers, air force colonels, and others, are all considered credible experts until the day they decide to speak out against the official lie, at which stage they instantly become "crackpots" too.


Isn't it funny...? Well, it would be positively HILARIOUS if it were not true, if it were some retarded joke, and if there were not people who were, be it wittingly or unwittingly, paid or unpaid, due to psychological denial or plain ignorance, assisting a gang of murderers in or behind the government to cover up the cold-blooded slaughter of thousands of their own countrymen. I personally don't find that funny in the slightest. In fact, I think it's a f****** tragedy for the entire human race.

LOL ...this is too easy ....brown bothers harriman ......thyssen .......carlyle

these are the companies that GW and his father and grandfather before him served .

what bush gained was power ...and people like you give it to him.

And let's not forget Laura's family either ...... or cheney's carlyle/haliburton interests.


Now ...let's deal with your obfuscation OK??

Why are you concentrating on GW and money ??

let me quiz you with a similarly veined question.....

What did Osama gain / lose from his "supposed" involvement ??

Seems to me like he only made things worse ..... and i , along with the US govt (who gave him millions$$), don't think he is so naive as to do 9/11.

Again , the taliban said if GW had any evidence they would hand him over .... there is/was no proof .....innocent !!!!! (until proven guilty)

cui bono says this was Israel/Zionists/NWO !!!

It is that simple if all you want is "a preponderence" of evidence , and , if that's the level of proof you posit against Osama , the GW is in deep doodoo's

These people were Killed , murdered !!! There's a difference


So , let me get this right , you would rather believe the "beltway experts" over the men who knew the job , had expertise AND were there when it happened .......... and the only thing you're interested is "money" ??? And only if it comes directly to GW ??And only from oil ??

So much for respecting the dead !!!

You sound like a shill ....do you perform a function that pays you to spruke the "party line" ??


No lying now dear !!!

They were murdered by Osama's men. You disrespect my country and the people who lost love ones, by spewing this conspiracy nonsense. So we sound like a shill. What do you sound like? Two nuts cracking.

if u read the previous thread on this subject this has already been explained.

DO UR RESEARCH OTHERWISE WE'RE JUST GONNA KEEP GOING ROUND IN CIRCLES

it only took one man to stop the USA defences , his name ?? Dick Cheney . he alone stood those fighters down. One person .... they even had 5 Israeli's for a cheer squad .....


......... again , this is an almost exact copy of the tactic used on 7/7 in london , if you feel that it would have taken 1000's then show em to us.

If Orson Welles can hoodwink all of New York City , then i reckon staging a "mock-up" exercise would be a great cover.

Where's the video of the passengers getting on the plane ..... surely there was "some" camera's operating , even in the carpark.

If you've got some proof , show us !!! If not then disprove what i'm saying with logic , not just "because i say so" !!!

explain?

Thats the way the United states is now.

If you disagree with cureent administration you are not a patriot.

If you critisize them they call you a terrorist or an un-american depending on the severity of your comments.

QUOTE(panther10758 @ Oct 2 2005, 01:18 AM) [snapback]869298[/snapback]

Actually that arguement has been done over and over and yes there are pictures of "plane" parts etc at Pentagon.

No Mr Simple , i want a photo that shows the plane coming in over the lawn ....and i want to see a photo of the hole it left that is bigger than the section of the aircraft ....also , if the wings went inside the building then where is the hole that reflects this ....if the wings didn't penetrate the structure ....where did they go ...they cant "dissappear" before the plane hit the building can they ???

See??? your story just don't add up ....very very simple ...no magic bulletts ...no assumptions .......




Good , point out the evidence as i have not seen anything about that .

More importantly , how did they disable the flight computer ?? (not the transponder OK??)





Yes we do , you can dig it up on the Boeing Website and prove to me that i am wrong and "the computer" would've allowed it to turn that hard ...this is "fighter pilot" type of "G" force !!!

c'mon ....prove me wrong on the flight computer , i dare you to stop shilling and put up something solid






Superfluos flowery twaddle ....again they're innocent until proven guilty.

SIMPLE !!!!






Again , it shows all the hallmarks of Mossad , they had the track record , they benefitted (Israel) and i hear the Haifa pipeline will be opening soon , just like "the conspiracy kooks" said would happen ...... looks like your losing this game buddy !!!!

In fact your can't even take a trick ...you've offered nothing .... NOTHING except speculation (regardless of whose speculation it is.)

and it's not like i've shown , said or asked for anything complicated ...just the basic's ....same as a judge would do .







It never happened !!! the laws of physics proscribe mobile calls at that speed and that elevation ..... show me some research , cause you are still in the "speculative zone here".

Notwithstanding ..the only verifiable contact was from the hostess on Daniel Levin's flight ....ask yourself why they won't release it ....it's not like it will make it any worse is it ??

yes and it people like you that arrogantly forget the first 4 words of "occams razor" and when it is pointed out you squirm too too much.

Bet you can't post 'em !!


and NO!! ..it says cover up loud and clear ..... we're are the video of these people getting on the plane ...or entering the terminal or ...getting out of the car .

PS who owned the terminal??

who was in charge od security ???

were are the pics from the CCTV at the gas station in washington ??

simple simple and simple ...yet you can't do it ..... i got all the vid's , pics right here and there is lots of holes ...so many they heven't been able to charge anyone have they ... and the US hasn't got anything to show , otherwise the taliban would've turned him over ........ instead you and your hawkish mates of the religious right just grabbed your guns and killed a 100,000 plus arabs for "nothing" !!

Oh yeah , i'm gonna take their word for it !!!