Are we missing the total point here? What if we did become exactly like God. Eve did eat the fruit after all. Was God a man then? And were our eyes opened to Knowledge which could be used for both 'good' and 'evil' ? I see that man has surely not died as a species, so was Satan right, was the fruit indeed only Knowledge? And was the 'fruit' indeed a book?

I will let Azalin answer that one!

*steps off toes*

haha, you were doing so well though Amy. First off, Im not sure what God is, and I don't think anyone knows. He/She/It is the holy spirit, he/she/it can assume any size, shape or form he/she/it wishes.

The fruit was not a book, it was indeed fruit. Upon eating it, it did enlighten them, they immediately knew they were naked and dis-obeyed god. For them to suddenly realize they were naked brings great free will. Fear, shame, embarrassment, happiness, all these were gained through the knowledge of the tree, and granted them the ability to feel these emotions.

And like I have said in previous posts, this is precisely what God wanted. They felt all of these emotions at once, the fear of being naked, the betraying of their creator, the tempt of evil, and the shame at eachother. These are the emotions god brought to them, that they un-locked themselves, emotions that could not be taught unless those certain circumstances were met. Man and Women now know these, and can continue a path of righteousness towards God, or continue to be tempted and follow Satan once more.

Azalin the metaphorical story of first woman and man speaks of the original blessing not original sin, we should be grateful for them because of them we have choice and the realm of the relative with which we enjoy many experiences , On one hand your saying you don't know what God is yet on the other hand you are saying you know exactly what God wants and doesn't want The bible is the calling card of the church need I say more??? you don't actually think these stories are real do you?? Namaste Sheri

That is why the gods created the satan story to frighten mankind into their arms.god and satan is the same-god is both good and evil.

Actually in the bible I have it states:

Genesis 3: 1-5. The serpent...said to the woman...of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden...you would not die, for God knows that on the day you eat thereof, your eyes will be opened and you shall be as gods.

Genesis 3: 22. Now that man has become one of us, thanks to science...Now we must ensure that he does not put out his hand to take from the "tree of life", eat and live forever.

Ezekiel 2: 7-8. Then I saw a hand stretched out to me holding a scroll...it was written over both sides. So I ate it, and it tasted as sweet as honey.

What do you think of this with regards to whom God is and what the fruit of the 'forbidden tree' could have been?

Its a funny thing, Azalin, that there is no mention of these "Greek" demons in the Bible until the Greeks inundated their culture on the Jews, and we should remember most early Christians were recruited from the pagan Greeks. The same applies for Hell. There is a clear evolution in the Biblical scripture. Originally Sheol is a precinct in Heaven, a dreary resting place for the good as well as bad. When the Greeks arrived, we see in the later Apophrypal books the place called "Gehenna", a place of fiery torment like some descriptions of Greek Hades, but it was reserved only for gentiles. All Jews still went to Sheol. In the New Testament the Christians created a fiery "Hell" for everyone, interchanged freely with Greek Hades, but even this probably is a misunderstanding of Jesus actual description, which was convertered into the pagan greek Hades-Hell. Curiously, Jesus mentions that the wicked would be tormented by a "worm that does not die", which hardly seems much of a problem if you are already boiling in a fiery hell. What he certainly meant, and what was misinterpreted, is that the word "worm" in Hebrew can be translated to be a "dragon" as well, just as the Medieval "wyrme" which can mean a dragon. There are a number of Biblical references to heavenly dragons (seraphim) who consume the souls of the wicked, and the idea goes back to ancient Egyptian theology (like many Hebrew ideas), of the crocodile headed dragon-like creature that consumes the heart/soul/spirit of the wicked. The Apocolypse of Baruch specifically states these "Dragons" reside in Heaven, devour the wicked and their belly/body is literally "hell" as an Angel explains to Baruch.

So what is more real? Pagan Greek Hades copied by the pagan Greek converts to Christianity that lies somewhere under the Earth? Or the Old Testament quiet resting place of Sheol for most souls, and soul-devouring heavenly dragons for the wicked which Jesus probably alluded to? Perhaps it is all fake, but given a choice, I think the original Hebrew ideas have more credence than those copied directly from the pagan Greeks who molded their own version of Christianity filled with their pagan beliefs, demons and demigods, which is the Christianity we know today.

Fallen angels/demons are just so much pagan Greek false doctrine, but it might be easy for someone to believe the fearsome dragon-seraphim creatures of the Bible, Satan among therm, where actually something to be feared, and therefore given an evil connotation, and identified with the mythological Greek demons taken into the Christian theology.

You are correct. I think it is what we do with the knowledge. It all depends on the interpretation of those passages. Did you know that education was looked down upon because people thought it had relations to the devil?
And speaking of the devil (pun intended), I see that you mentioned it being a beautiful entity. My thoughts on the devil are like my thoughts on God. He existed before the Creation. And creation is associated with gender and sex, therefore God and the devil would be genderless entities. The horn and the tail image is false. But those are just my thoughts...The devil does not waste it's time with murderers, rapists like you said, Amy. But actually those that are close to "enlightenment" in my opinion.

Thank you for your lovely post. I think it is a state of mind as well. People create their own hell. Now this "evil" you speak of, do you think of it as being splinters of a greater evil?

Actually you're wrong. It was not a fruit. It is a metaphor and so is the tree. The same applies to the Tree of Life and not just the Tree of Knowledge.
edit: thank you, Rowan for your post. It makes a lot of sense and I hope people see that relation.

The whole story is metaphorically speaking and a parable, it could very well of been a fruit, and it could very well of been a book. The bible is full of riddles, it's just how you yourself interpret it.

True, but read it carefully. It definitely was not a fruit as you said.

1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.


what makes you think otherwise ?

Why did God say that they would die if they touched it? They gained knowledge. What fruit has the ability to do that? "Eat" is obviously a metaphor. It isn't a literal fruit, there are metaphors throughout the entire Bible. And this is just another one, Azalin.

Genesis 3: 1-5. The serpent...said to the woman...of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden...you would not die, for God knows that on the day you EAT thereof, your eyes will be opened and you shall be as gods.

All right. Substitute the word "read" instead of "eat". Doesn't it make a a LOT more sense?

Not in the slightest. Your saying that a magical fruit could not enlighten them ?. Not much different then taking the eucharist, the body and blood of Jesus christ.

Says in the next passage that she saw that the fruit was good for food. I doubt she thought a book was edible.

Food for thought, lol.

But it's just an example. It was not a literal fruit. The same applies with the Tree of Life.

Yelakiah, as to your description of Satan being beautiful, the "highest" heavenly creatures in the Bible are the Seraphim, which in Hebrew means a "flying and fiery serpent", whcih does coincide with Satan being called a "dragon" in the New Testament. But the Bible, and related Hebrew texts are filled with references to these heavenly "dragons". So the bit about Satan having a tail is essentially correct, as well as wings, though none of the human-like angels in the Bible have wings. Seraphim are always referred to as "creatures" unlike angels. Many people might say that dragons are beatutiful things, but you must dismiss the "lucifer" connection with Satan as this is now known to be a clear mistranlation of Biblical scripture. Jesus warning that Satan sought to "devour" his followers also suggests a more dragon-like, than angelic-human countenance. There is also the clear dualistic connection between the Christian dragon Satan and the Zorastrian dragon Ahriman. The christians even copied the same fate for "their" dragon from the earlier Zorastrian writings.

TIME OUT
I never said the devil was beautiful.
And I already know that Satan, Lucifer, and the serpent are three different entities. I was talking about gender.

Yes It definitely does make FOOD for thought...

Thank you for posting that info BTW, it's true that the Bible stems from many stories. Egyptian mysteries, Babylonian stories, etc.

I just honestly believe it was real fruit lol. Better then assuming they got to Chapter 3 and it told them being naked is shameful, and chapter 4 says they dis-obeyed god in large letters taking up the page.

I like the idea that they ate the fruit, and it instantly enlightened them, as it was God's sacred fruit. Like I said with regards to the breaking of the bread and the drinking of the wine for enlightenment and repenting of our sins. There are many historical beliefs for eating or drinking specific foods or drinks that have magical properties.

Magical fruit that would like...dilate the arteries of the brain?
^Ignore that.
I don't believe it was a fruit. Why would they die if they touched it?
And if it were a fruit, my quotes in the post wouldn't make sense. The one with Enoch and the Christian Bible. What kind of fruit do you think it was??? And I'll tell you if it had magic properties or not.

Lol. Well obviously no-one died because they actually ate the fruit. The became like God instead, filled with knowledge. Who really cares if it was a fruit or a scroll, in the end the same thing happened. They understood the knowledge, and became like 'gods'.

So does that mean that there is more than one god now??

It's obviously not a piece of fruit that we have still on earth. It was from a specific tree that grew it, but there was just one, and I would assume the tree no longer exists if the parable were true.

There are many poisonous foods, that kill you after consumption. God more or less told them this to keep them away from the food, in which, it would cause Satan to have to urge them to do it. Causing death upon eating it could of had many metaphorical meanings when god explained it too them. Perhaps death was meaning they were kicked out of paradise, and would have to search for food and water, and shelter on their own.

Thank you for your input. I believe that everyone is their own god, and what it all boils down to is "accepting" that godhood. That is what the serpent was trying to do. The serpent wanted Adam and Eve to be god-like in the sense that they were both knowledgeable and immortal.
I think eventually, the serpent would have tempted Adam and Eve to eat of the Tree of Life as well.

Actually, let's say it is a fruit for a minute. I think you're wrong. Enoch described it as looking like grapes. However, Adam and Eve then covered themselves with fig leaves. So this "fruit" could have easily been a fig.

So, the serpent and the tree of life are metaphores for something else? What could that be I wonder?

A serpent that speaks, and knows the will of God too... so he was a God too?

And about immortality, we haven't got that yet, so that obviously pertains to the Tree of Life, so that is DNA then? DNA currently has a life span to create aging. So tweak that DNA with the knowledge of the Tree of Life and voila! boom you have immortality! Amen to that!

She just said it all. People that study the Tree of Life and Kabbalah, think that it is a secret to DNA. To alter it to become "immortal".
Remember some people of the Bible lived a long time. Several hundred years in fact, and then the numbers got lower and lower. It all ties into the Tree of Life.

The Kabbalah tree of life diagram does look funny with all of it's circles and lines. Wonder if that has much to do with the knowledge involved?

Is there some 'lost' knowledge that we have misplaced? Where are we to find it again now?

It also makes me wonder about other mythical trees. I think that if we look inside ourselves, that knowledge is there.

Also, I heard that the Tree of Life inverted meant "Daath". Which looks like death, lol. It's weird, but has anybody heard of that before???

True, which I why I think that the original knowledge might have been scientifically based. If we are beginning to understand the human genome and DNA now, through science, then they must have understood it long ago when they lived to 700 years...

Look at this link for more info:

http://visit.elysiumgates.com/daath.html

hahaha! great minds think alike...well, except I'm not sure about that genderless thing...

Anyway, it was a fruit. God did not mean if you eat the fruit you will drop dead, more in the terms of it gave us mortality....

That's deep. But what is the Tree of Life inverted?
I'll google it and post it as an edit.
edit: Ignore this post, lol. The inverted tree represents the nervous system.
edit: Daath is "knowledge," which comes from experience and conscious realization of the experience. That is what we are attempting to do within the Sephira of Malkuth. The tree of "good and evil" that represents the paradox of Malkuth experience and consciousness is resolved through the tree of "knowledge." Each of the other six Sephira, of necessity, will be filtered through our experience of Malkuth and therefore eventually transformed when realized as Daath.
edit: sooo....if "daath" were the Tree of Life inverted (for example), it would be mortality, or death, which is the Tree of Knowledge. And the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge are opposites.

(Thinking)
So if the Tree of Knowledge gave us "mortality" (is that what you meant or was it "morality???), and the Tree of Life gave us immortality, then in a way they would be opposites. And incidentally, they were at opposite sides of the Garden.

Their time system was diffferent then ours. Moses was said to live into 300 years, in our time I believe it was figured to be in his 70's.

Let's get back to Adam and Eve, who lived 900 years I believe. That's old as dirt either way you look at it.

LOL dust to dust!!

lol, I'm just now getting that. So lost for a minute there, like that food for thought. My, my, puns are everywhere in here.

Yele you probably know this my wise friend but the Daath is used in tarot reading its placed to the left of the reader and symbolizes knowledge of that which is unseen the Daath is the path way (metaphorically) In my youth i was a reader of the tarot and i read from many decks the Thoth deck which uses the Daath concept. Just felt like sharing that namaste Sheri

I just had a thought, an acorn was described by the Celts to contain knowledge. Hense the saying "In a nutshell". These trees and their fruits just keep coming up everywhere!(excuse another pun)

Wow, thank you sheri. That is really amazing.

It supports the ideas of you and Rainbow Rowan very interesting posts I wish more were like this sharing ideas and ponderings instead of insisting because some book says something it must be, I love how you two are thinkers its refreshing to read your posts I've learned alot. namste sheri

Wow, what a beautiful compliment. And thank you too for your wisdom!

Rainbow and yele please don't change after all you are our future, the hope of mankind. namaste Sheri

Speaking for us both: We do our best!

Thank you for your kind heart

Love and light to you

No, I don't think I do Yelekiah; that is, if you mean a force of evil of...shall we say...a supernatural kind. I believe that it is a combination of things ranging from physiological to nurture and environment.

One psychopath's DNA recipe may differ from another psychopath's ingredients, but the outcome is the same...pot-roast! Medical Science does'nt yet have the answer for these souls, but I am certain that they will find the cause, and cure, for these cataclysmic anomalies; probably not in our lifetime, but we live in hope.

There are other types of evil in humans, sometimes just as deadly; and a lot of these lost souls have come into the world...shall we say...'a day late, and a dollar short!' Almost from conception they have seen, and heard things that no developing psyche should. Some of them are hampered even further by malignant environmental guidance, and/or ignorance. The only education available for them is the infamous 'University Of Life!'

At this moment in time, there is no hope for the psychopath; but we can, and MUST do something for those others.

Sometimes I just think it's all so hopeless...

Not to be offensive here, but the Victim mentality creates the Victim reality.
We all have excuses for our plight, but the only one you need to digest is your own.
Take responsibility for your own life!
Quit allowing others to blame the cat, or their mother, or God.
There are many people whom have had it difficult, and they are loving, blessed people.
You alone create your own life.

To quote Walt Whitman in the poem To YOU:


"Old or young, male or female, rude, low, rejected by the rest,
whatever you are promulges itself;
Through birth, life, death, burial, the means are provided, nothing
is scanted;
Through angers, losses, ambition, ignorance, ennui, what you are
picks its way."