I have reasons to think your mentally ill, and by the way seeing a psychiatrist once every 20 years isn't going to qualify for a medical check up

If I doubted everything about spirits I obvisouly wouldn't believe in demons but there is nothing you can say or do Rosemary that will make me change my mind because so far you have proven no rational thought into your posts whatsoever.

No offense here but how do you propose to do that when it can be easily mistaken for mental illness? I do realize you are concerned for Rosemary but unless you experience it personally I do not think there is a way to prove it. I know that spirits can possess and even be channeled or a walk in but there is not a way for me to prove beyond a doubt. Please do tell me if you have any way of proving or evne disproving someone's claim to spirit existance or possession. I am not trying to be rude but it seems that we cannot even prove mental illness accurately either. The human mind is a true mystery that we have not yet even scratched the surface to yet.

Rosemary, I have to first say that I am very sorry for you and if I were in your place and felt like there was a battle raging inside me I would be insane by now. But I just have one question, if there was something you could do to make it stop, would you try it?

They don't make me insane at all.

What they are doing is very bothersome and I wish I could talk them into stopping what they are doing but since I haven't found a way to do that I decided to write about them telling the world everything I know about them now and when they walked the Earth hoping that they will decide at some point in time to stop.

As I said I finally found a Paranormal Group who is getting together with me in February and they are going to try to record in my home, and several psychics will try to communicate with and identify the four to their own satisfaction to prove they are there.

One is also a Demonologist and he feels that he may be able to help me get these Spirits to leave my home and stop bothering me.

But yes if you have a suggestion other than telling me to ignore them, or stop writing with or about them then I would of course like to hear what you have to say.
I have tried all those things and none of them have so far worked.

Well since you have someon coming to help in February I would do that first. But if they can not do anything or make it stop I would at least try to get a medical doctors opinion. What can it hurt? If they put you on medicine and it all goes away...wont you be thrilled to have your life back? And if it doesnt work then you know you were right all along and have proff to show the world.

Rosemary,

In the 18 months I spent allowing myself to be tormented by spirits, it was about 6 months into the battle that I developed the 'ho-hum' attitude toward their attempts. They kept trying, and I'd wake up unaffected by the attacks every day in that year's time. The severity gradually diminished until all efforts halted.

What I'm trying to say is that you need to be patient. It's going to take time for them to leave once you begin ignoring them and find more ways to love yourself. And giving them acknowledgement by addressing them or revealing their story to the public is the worst thing that you can do. The help you are trying to offer them is hurting them. They need to cut the cord and grow up. They're basically the equivalent of 40 year olds living at home with their mother, unemployed and unmotivated. You've enabled them for 20 years, so it's going to take love for yourself in addition to ignoring them. Your love may serve as inspiration for them, but them loving themselves is not going to keep them clinging to you. If they're happy and in a state of love with themselves, they'll grow up and fly from the nest.

Unfortunately, I cannot give you instructions on how to love yourself. I gave many tips on how to generate happiness last month in the "Things We Can Learn In One Day" thread, but you have to find for yourself what brings you joy and allows love back into your world. My tips are examples only. Not everyone takes immense joy in aimless ambulation as I do.

You need to focus on you, not them in any way. Find more methods to bring laughter into your life. If the friends you see on a regular basis don't bring you joy, create it for your benefit and theirs. Can I ask what types of things you do for fun, alone and/or with friends? I don't mean to put you on the spot, and you're free to send me a private message or E-mail any time.


Brian
volunteerhealer@yahoo.com

Its going to take time? A year of being tortured is a little much to ask.

I spent 16 years in grade school and college. What I endured between 1999 and 2001 was 18 months of unique education. It's only as evil as one allows it to be, and torture is a matter of perspective. This is why I suggested meditation for Rosemary.

It may not take a year in Rosemary's case. She may have more coping skills from her childhood than I did. Mine in no way prepared me for adulthood. Everyone is different.

I didn't ask Rosemary to expect one year; that was simply my story as a reference.

Well, I think I'd have to agree that a human spirit wouldn't possess a person. And if indeed they are your relatives, then they can't ask for forgiveness after death. They have lost their freewill at that point and are "doomed" to whatever resolution they chose in life.

What really annoys me are the people that post a bunch of hard to read nonsense, and cannot state an intelligent opinion, but instead feel the need to insult people they don't even know.

If you would look deeper into this matter, you would see that there are only 2 possible explinations for Rosemary and her situation.
1) Demonic Possession
2) Mental illness

The reason I say this is because I doubt very seriously if she has been digging for attention for this long. Her AOL diary posts go back to 2003, so regardless of what the truth is, it seems she firmly believes this to be true.


Edit: Removed quote as it refers to a deleted post.
-Disinterested.

Some spirits whom were not happy in life carry that over to the other side and need to learn over again once they have crossed over. If there are good and bad humans why then can't there be good and bad spirits? Bad spirits should be demonic and since bad people harm other people then is it not logical a bad spirit can harm a living person? Just a thought and a personal opinion.

[attachmentid=22650] Here is my 2 cents. This article was written by a psychiatrist who now practices Spirit Release Therapy.

I admit that is an interesting link. I have read Edith Fiore's Unquiet Dead which is referred to in this article - it was fairly well done, not quite as "out there" as most of the Warrens' work, but still makes a lot of assumptions and takes a lot of liberty with data and ignores some other doctors and scientists research - especially for a health professional. Still, it at least encourages some critical thinking.

Critical thinking is always good. I have read Dr. Fiore's book and also Spirit Releasement Therapy, by Dr. William Baldwin. When the spirits were asked if anti-psychotic medication had any effect on them they said yes, it made them much less able to influence the host. Food for thought.

That would go the same for those that do believe her story, and can you honestly say that we people that are "insulting" poor Rosemary here are commenting nonsense?

Some of "us" are medical professionals, they have heard this in many other areas as well, there is no point in stating that we are doing this for the sake of debating while Rosemary has issues that are of the medical aspect in every honest opinion of mine

That is a wonderful read thank you.

I intend to go back and read it again in the future.

I notice they are saying some of the same things I have been writing.
They said they believe many people who hear voices in many cases are possessed by Spirits and they don't realize what is happening to them.

I believe anyone who doesn't believe what I have been writing here if they would go and read that Article mentioned in Spirit Release Therapy they may change their minds about what I have been writing about my experience.

I am going to try some of the things I read in that article and see if I can do a better job of making some sort of peace with these spirits and see if they will go and rest somewhere else and see if they can't feel better.

You are welcome Rosemary. All the best and Good Luck.

Even a medical professional realizes that cannot diagnose anyone without seeing them in person. I think you have issue too but I am not calling you crazy because everyone has issues in their life. Please give it a rest Boltwave and move on.

Hi, Ancestralbone,

I like the tone of your posts, your level of compassion, and I know you and I both share a deep concern for Rosemary and others who are dealing with these phenomena. Personally, I don't enjoy the label of mental illness.

Following are a couple of rhetorical questions, and they're not specifically directed at you.

Since everyone has to work toward achieving and maintaining happiness on a daily basis, why attach such a cruel label? Isn't that the ultimate reason why people seek therapy... to regain the ability to find and sustain happiness? It's my belief that if we, as living humans, did more to help those among us who are alive, rather than calling them names and sending them to prideful academians who can't always help, those who have passed on wouldn't need to do our work for us through malevolent means.

I dislike the label of "demon" just as much as "mental illness". I think it's safe to assume that the majority of people, myself excluded, who use the word, demon, mean it in the ultimate evil, Catholic sense. That doesn't hold water from my personal experience.

To answer your question, spirits can absolutely harm the living: choking, stabbing, molestation, rape.

But it's how we react to it, and how much satisfaction we give to our teachers/bullies that determines the severity and duration. If I were to be tortured in life by another person, I could react in a variety of ways. Let's say I had a hand amputated. I could sit there in my restraints, wailing at the top of my lungs, which I would obviously do from the pain. I can't think of too many meditative states that could prepare for the unexpected shock of an event such as that.

It's the emotional reaction that's well under my control. Do I shout obscenities at my attacker and wish doom for him in this life and the next, or do I recognize the loss of a hand as an adaptable inconvenience that will affect my typing speed, ability to carry some heavy objects by conventional means, and perform other daily activities. I am legally blind, and there's nothing evil about that. Most who have full use of their eyes can't imagine life without a car, or having to ride the bus on a daily basis. It's beneficial in other ways. I'm relaxed in my commute because someone else fights the traffic instead of me. Walking is great exercise, and this keeps me healthy mentally and physically.

I learned many things as a result of how I reacted to my past, and I'm not regretful for anything that happened, including the hauntings and temporary possessions. Ultimate evil? Nope.

Just a thought on this, and I'm sure that there are a slew of of "paranormal researchers" who would be willing to back up this statement. "Bad" discorporate spirits are not demons, humans are not, and cannot be demons, even if they were bad people in life. I'm not the law on this or anythng, but the "supernatural community" as it were agrees that demons, and demonic forces are sentient malefic entities whi have never existed on our plane of existence. To credit the types of phenomenon that demonic forces exhibit to humans, I cannot make the connection. If the person, in life were capable of those types of phenomenon, then I would concede, but I don't think it's realistic. (Arguing reality on a ghost and paranormal forum, at what point did I lose my mind?) It's estimated that the average human spirit uses considerable amounts of energy to do something as simle as knock over a standing picture frame, it's unlikely, if this is true, that a human spirit would have enough energy to cause the long term, repetetive, continual phenoms that demonic forces produce. But this is all anecdotal, theoretical, arguable opinion. Believe what you want.

First of all I'd like to know what the hell you are talking about second I will comment that it is also the same for a person to assume she's possessed by her relatives who have no connection to her personally, I'm tired of hearing about ghosts and spirits of the dead, it makes no sense, demons and human spirits cannot co-exist, ghosts are just mirrors of the past, shadows that fade given time, demons are external entities who have the power to control the human body and invade your life with all sorts of horrible things, demons are the powerful beings in spiritual battles, not evil people who once had a chance to make things all well.

Word!

I responded to your comment about having medical professionals on the forum board. True about the comment this it also goes for some assuming she is possessed but as a person who feels spirits I can be opened to the possibility without going to mental illness. Negative and positive energy are always going to exist and that negative energy a person carries in life does not go away in death. Just get past Rosemary I am tired you repeating she is mentally ill. I would like to see other opinions from you for a while after all we are on a discussion forum.

I must apologize some stressful home situation cause my brain to not state myself correctly. It was not my intention to imply that human spirits became demonic enitities. I merely wanted to point out that a person who is capable of harm on this plane will not change their ways once on the other side. I feel a spirit can cause harm to a person whom is living that is all I meant. My apologies to you Edw74 for not making myself more clear.

Thank you Frankblunt.

Hi, EDW74,

How's it going? From my own personal experience, let me say that the negative emotions are food for the spirits who are suffering and want attention and/or to live again. Feed anyone enough, and he's going to get fat. Provide those negative emotions (the anger, fear, and pride) and the spirit gains strength. Throw hate into the mix, which is a state of mind that serves to destroy the victim, and possession becomes probable.

A spirit who has gained immense, victim-precipitated power could most certainly have been, and likely was, human. No proof of this, I only know that the events that have been associated as demonic influence are conquerable by oneself. Children do it all the time by discovering happiness in the world and ignoring their old, transparent buddies.

And I would like to know what the Hell you are talking about.

You say human spirits and demons cannot co-exist and you say that the Spirits of Relatives cannot inhabit my body but you are wrong, wrong, and many of these Spirit Release Spiritualists know you are wrong.

And the Priest in the Russian Exorcism Video knows you are wrong and I who have lived with and dealt with this for 20 years knows you are wrong.

And you can spew anything you want to about Religion and Demons and blah blah blah, I believe in God and pray to him everyday and while I feel I get much good advice from the Higher Realms of the spirit World so far not one of those Higher Powers has been able to get these Spirits out of my body and I have asked them now if its true they have all this power and they haven't taken these Spirits out of my body or destroyed them am I to assume that I am writing to educate others like Boltwave and the others who haven't walked in my shos and hopefully make believers out of them?

I have now said to my Relatives if its your intention to make believers out of people and no one believes me why don't you get out of my body and go teach them that what I am saying is true and see what they have to say about it.

I must say that since my three relatives and Dr. P. are too frightened to come out of my body and face a Higher power, you have little to worry about them at this point in time.

For those who don't believe my story I would like to take you through a day in the life of the Possessed.

Yesterday I went out of the house to get some fresh air and exercise having not been out of the house since last Sunday.

I told the Spirits if they don't get out of my body they cannot ever leave the house again and I lasted for one week and then it was time to get out and do things and so again they won.

I went several places including the Grocery Store, not that I needed anything but to just walk about and check things out and I was in there for almost four hours taking things off shelves and putting them back and finally I made it out of the store after spending less than 11 dollars.

What took me so long?

Well one of the good Spirits who goes shopping with me had me looking at good buys and we discussed them and why I shoud buy them then I would put them in the cart then the Evil Spirits would take voer and begin brainwashing me and I would say your right I don't need it and back onto he shelf it would go.

But then I would be listening to someone else who told me why I need it and I would take it back.

After making a few more stops it was back home at lunch time and then its the big debate as to what do I have for lunch.

Do I eat the Leftovers, do I make something new or do I use one of the frozen meals we cooked earlier and froze for quick meals.

Struggle, struggle, struggle.

At this point I say I'll take my Sugar reading and let the Reading determine whose advice I follow and that's what I normally do.

The Evil Spirits on the other hand try to force me not to do the Diabetic Reading hoping I will follow their advice and eat more than I should so by dinner time without exercise my Sugar Reading will be escalated.

When this all began I weighed 120 pounds and had kept it off for five years but with all the advice and interferrence from the Evil Spirits I gained every pound back that I had lost five years ago and Dr. P. said now I don't have to worry about anyone wanting you.
I would then lose five pounds and with there help back it would go through their forced food choices until finally I managed to take off 35 pounds and have kept it off but its not easy with the kinds of things they are doing to me.

They interferre with my house keeping chores and my cooking, when I go to bed, when I get up, what kind of soap I use and even when I take a bath, and just about everything in my everyday life.

They watch me take a bath, dress, go to the bathroom and during these things they are quite vocal on many things.

I will say that no ever accusses me of being Mental because they never see or hear me do anything out of the ordinary and others don't even know these Spirits are here except the ones I am writing to in my Journal and on these Forums.

To everyone else I seem like a quiet, nice, helpful old lady and they don't know what is going on inside my body with these Evil Spirits because in the beginning I tried to get my relatives to help me find an exorcist and they were just too terrified at believing what I am telling them and so I don't tell them anymore.

Every once in a while my Sister will make a joke and say by the way how is Dr. P. and the others do they drop in on your still.

I say remember you said we don't want to talk about that anymore.

Last night my daughter called and said she is coming to do my bathroom ceiling and said she doesn't know exactly when she will schedule it in and I said I will be happy to have your help and anytime is alright except (date deleted when Parnormal Investigators are coming) because I have other plans.

So I no longer talk about this to those close to me I do however write about it in my Journal, which they all secretly read and on Forums like this.
One of the reasons I put the Forums I am writing in into my Journal is so they can secretly read my Journal and go to those websites and read and hopefully believe what is happening to me even if we don't discuss it.

S'ok, I wasn't attacking you, I meant no trespass. Just wanted a clarification of terms, or to let you know the concensus if you weren't already aware of it.

Rosemary,

Thank you for sharing the emotional coping of your story. I know that took a great deal of courage on your part. You are not mentally ill, and any opinions based solely upon forum readings to that effect by those referring to themselves as medical professionals have less value than the paper upon which their certifications are printed. Anyone who is not blissfully ignorant must battle what is referred to as "mental illness". Whenever we fail to achieve happiness, even for a split second, we could think of ourselves as temporarily insane. But why beat ourselves up, or others for that matter?

I don't have a degree in medicine, and I am not a licensed therapist. But I have had too many corroborated spiritual encounters to discount the manner in which you have described your struggles. I shared many of your experiences with the attacks and voices years ago as some already know. I've seen some recent remarks about you only wishing to teach, and not wanting help of any kind. If it's to work, it will have to be help to help you help yourself, and I'm willing to try.

The best advice I can think to suggest at this time is to take some baby steps. When you're in the store and deciding upon groceries, or at home and wondering whether or not to eat those leftovers, go with your gut reaction and don't back down. And don't give any merit to those voices telling you that no one is going to want you. You're worthy of love no matter what, Rosemary.

I'm going to conclude with a tangent to further illustrate the amount of illness that's in the medical profession and the public's perception of health: you may have heard of the man released from prison who had foreknowledge of the Oklahoma City bombing and did nothing to prevent it. It was reported that a woman's blood pressure reached a critical stage as a result of his release. Holy crapola! Are they joking? The opening of prison doors, and inmate release, does not raise blood pressure. That woman has chosen not to accept control over her emotions, and she needs help, not fame for remaining a victim after more than 10 years. And the media was more than happy to play the oppression angle for dramatic effect.

Good job, network dudes. You've earned the title of "special" in my book.

Rosemary,

A bit more advice: be happy to teach Boltwave and others. If you feel the need to swear at them, ignore them instead. Any anger that's being expressed in response to your posts, via profanity or other harsh comments, is a sign that you're having an affect upon them. It's an unconventional compliment, and returning that form of sentiment empowers their mission, not yours.

Keep in mind what I said earlier of the "demons" not being all that they can be, sporting plastic hoop head gear. They won't seem so threatening when viewed in that light.

Why don't you give it a rest? Stop feeding her delusions. In my world people talking to unseen voices fall in the category of mental illness. Of course my world is a rational one.

I'm not sure if you caught that one TV episode on TBC the other day, it was a part of that one show "Daisy does America" crap, anyhoo I was flipping through channels just this last night and to my interest I found that the show had featured a spiritual reading from this one psychic, she said something about channeling spirits within the same room, as I watched I observed that her personality started to change (in the midst of meditation, or whatever) and from what I caught on the television screen I found that she started to change, it became a freak show actually, she started to squint her eyes and was acting really weird talking in a high pitched asian voice

I can honestly say that this talk of psychic abilities and opening a spiritual channel within yourself has really worn me out, it has most certaintly proved itself as muddled and distorted, the fact is it isn't real and the devil has deceived many people like you putting on a freak show for the entire world to see.

Now some psychics I've talked to actually have some rationality and don't take things to the ultimate extreme, for instance Farah and I have discussed here and there and she seems like a nice person let alone the fact that she is open to other opinions and ideas that may prove her theories otherwise.

We are all learning Rosemary, please, get the message that this isn't Dr. P or whatever the hell you can come up with and say or anyone out there that is passed you could possibly blame to support your story's validity, and one last question before you respond when was the last time you saw this psychiatrist or doctor? Seeing just one doctor in a total of 20 years isn't going to cut it, you need to evaluate yourself, calm down and keep an open mind.

With that said, I close my statement




BURN!

I know and thank you. It has been stressful at home lately and it showed. Glad no hard feelings there. Please do feel free to point it out anytime.

My world is a rational one too and if you want proof then you can care for my Grandmother whom is not living in a rational world. I have to be in order to care her although that still does not make me an expert to judge another's mental state. I am not a professional shrink and do not pretend to even grasp the human mind.

Boltwave ericraven2003 was not a burn because it did not even hurt a tiny bit but he and you are welcome to try again.

It wasn't meant as a burn. You can believe what you want, but so can I.

Wow, how many times does it take to tell someone that they don't need to know the fields of medical science to tell someone they have problems, it's the same for you, are you a parnanormal investigator? I think not, so why are we fighting fire with fire when clearly you are basing things when they apply to your statements as well, I'd appreciate if some people around here could stop doing that so we can get to the main issues concerning Rosemary's health, instead of who knows this and who knows that when someone is just pointing out something they've noticed, it's not that hard to grasp people

Hello, Folks,

The goal when intervening with one possessed is to lead the person back to a path of happiness. We all deviate from that path, usually on a daily basis, but some find their feet treading a persistent road of despair.

Whether or not the spiritual encounters are real or imagined, that's irrelevant in taking control of one's life, because it's essential to ignore them and love oneself to regain power over the body. In the end, if joy prevails, it's either going to be an amazing but true part of one's past, or something imaginary that makes no difference now in the humbling light of love.

I know there is truth to what's happening with Rosemary. My situation was malevolent and bothersome for 6 months, malevolent only for another 12, and completely benign for four years after that with visible, lingering spirits. I can't testify one way or the other with the specific cases of clairvoyance cited, but I know first-hand that it is possible.

However, in the event of psychiatric intervention, any therapist who is going to have the slightest impact must be open to the realism of possession. What happens if the therapist is not? The patient will likely be agitated, make desperate attempts to prove that it's legitimate, and will typically fail with a closed-minded doctor: no catharsis, no attachment, and a deeper loss of positive emotion.

Persuading the individual to focus on his/her own life, find ways to create joy, and love oneself is not an easy task when one has ignored personal needs for such a lengthy period of time. But it's something that anyone can attempt helping someone else to do, regardless of faith. So, if you're hung up on "Possession vs. Mental Illness", let it go and join me in helping Rosemary to discover joy again.


Regards,
Brian

Wow is right you are a piece of work and Rosemary's health is her issue to deal with not yours. You might as well condemn me as a crazy too because I am empath and I get know when people lose limbs before the doctors does.

I would not say you were crazy but I do not think you have any such power.

My apologies then, sorry. I did not state you could not believe what you want to believe. Forcing someone else to believe the same as you do is very wrong for me to do to someone. Every day I watch my Grandmother slowly lose her rationality so when you stated that you lived in a rational world it just hit me too close to home right now. I love her and it hurts that she cannot realize how much she is lashing out at us and hurting our feelings. So I am sorry if I offended yours.

That is fine but I did that once and it was a pleasant experience it happen with my sister and I would rather never do that again. I do not consider it a power it is a gift and I can do more with it. I cannot prove nor do I expect anyone to believe it. I think skeptism is a needed in the word too.

I lived through the same thing with my mother being shcizophrenic and she could be violent sometimes when I was growing up. I never, ever thought she was anything but mentally ill. Her believing she was possessed or talking to voices did not make so. She was crazy.

How rough that must have been for you and I am sorry that you and your Mother had to go through that. My Grandmother is not possessed she just acts worst then a child and may have dementia. She thought my late Grandfather was her guardian and that really hit us hard to hear that. It makes me feel guilty and selfish for taking away some of her independence. I know that sometimes no matter how much I want to help her I cannot she has to do it for herself. Sorry, I guess I am too emotionally this week and you do not need to hear a sob story. I will leave you alone for the rest of the day.

No problem. I was weak when I was going through it. It scarred me for life. I got through it and so will you. Pain is something that can also make you stronger. This might sound stupid, but my growing up in this situation made me more ambitious. So good things can come from a bad situation.Good luck.

You're absolutely right, Ericraven. As I recall, you mentioned that you have children. I'm sure that the pain caused by your mother's condition led to a higher standard in terms of your own parenting techniques. We do most certainly have the potential to grow during and after suffering.

In the mid 90s when I worked with the severely disabled and emotionally disturbed, I had insight in dealing with the children that many of the teachers did not. My childhood trauma had produced a strong sense of humility, whereas the bulk of the teachers possessed so much pride that they patronized the children, had no control, and ultimately no respect. Many of them had to practice wrestling maneuvers to restrain the kids. I quelled the tantrums every time without raising my voice, nor physical contact.

Had it not been for the two years of misdiagnosed asthma between '97 and '99, I may never have developed the fear and anger, leading to spiritual attacks, that allowed me to grow even further. As always, the legitimacy of what happened to me is debatable. Rosemary is seeking help whether or not people realize that, and I feel obliged to support her with my history that parallels her own, no matter what that may mean to public perception of my character.

Like Ancestralbone was saying earlier, skeptics have a place in the world. I respect your position of realism, and it's entirely up to you to what extent you want to research the material being posted. If you're not experiencing anything similar to what's being described, that's a good sign that you're recovering from what occurred earlier in life.


Take care,
Brian

Thank you!

Oh alright, again what you've just said applys for you

Feel the love! There's a lot of love here in this thread, just lie back and float in it, all the warm juicy love. Can't y'all feel it? It's just like........love, I feel the love y'all have fore eachother! All this, "This is my belief, and yours are that" and the "My POV is such and yours can't be this" Love, love, love, love, love!