Let us now consider the mind.
The mind is very elusive because it is intangable. Dictionaries define it as the seat of consciousness, and of thoughts and emotions. Scientists, philosophers and theologians are not entirely in agreement about what the mind is, but they know that the mind is not the brain. The brain is a physical organ and center of sensation contained within the skull and might be regarded as a bio-computer which is used by the mind. It can be located and measured because it is physical, the mind cannot be, since it is intangable. So whilst we may not yet fully understand what the mind is, we do know it exists.

In order to aid our understanding of the mind, we may classify the way it operates into four functioning levels. Of course, it is not really divided into compartments, for the simple reason that it has no form. In order to comprehend an abstract concept, our reason needs something to grip on to.

The aspect of the total mind with which we are most familiar is the Concious Mind, for we use it constantly during our normal, everyday activities. The Concious Mind is the seat of our intelect, it is what we "reason" with to arrive at conclusions before determining our actions. We use it to interpret and make sense of the impressions we receive from the external enviornment. The Conscious Mind is the mind of the "self" we present to the world--the egotistical "Human" Self, the "Middle" self, whose language is words and speech---the mortal and separated self.

The Subconscious Mind is that aspect of the mind that appears to act on instructions programmed into it from the Conscious Mind. These are the firm beliefs, attitudes and habits formed through early conditioning and by the enviornment, fears, phobias and complexities. It stores these along with a record of conscious happenings in its memory bank, and could be described as the "servant" mind because it serves the Conscious Mind in this way. It is the mind of what I prefer to call "The Hidden Self" because these activities are largely hidden within and communicates through imagery, symbols and feelings.

The Unconscious Mind is automative and operates unceasingly. From the moment of conception it works to build, maintain and repair the physical body, first according to instructions contained in the genetic code, and later those that are passed down from the subconscious. It is the mind of what i shall call "The Body" Self because it operates at the very foundation level of the human body. Its launguage is impulsive---chemical and electrical.

The Superconscious Mind is the highest aspect of the total mind and has superior mental powers. It is the sourse of all knowledge you might want or ever likely to need. The Superconscious Mind brings knowledge into the conscious through sudden flashes of illumination. It is the sourse of inspiration and creativity, and is the mind of the "higher self".
Its language is telepathic.
These four aspects of the total mind thus relate to aspects of the total self and exist simultaniously.

The Human Self is that aspect of the total Self that expresses itself through personality, ande is concerned with making practical decisions in everyday living. It exercises reasoning ability and analyses, categorizes, makes judgements and comparasons, and forms beliefs and opinions.

Through different states of consciousness we live.
we have a waking consciousness where we live through our conscious mind.
We have a dream consciousness, which some equate with our true level of consciousness, and we are a dream within a dream.
We have a butt consciousness (sorry I had to put this in here thanks to Hyper)
and we have a christ consciousness.

Could death just be another level of consciousness?
Could God just be another level of consciousness?
Durning my experience, I was at a consciousness level where I made the connection with all.
Everything, and everyone were connected. There was no separation. There was only a total sense of Love, which was the true word of Jesus and other prophets who attained the level of consciousness before others perverted his word.

If it is true and NDE/OOBE is a a product of the mind,--not brain--but mind, which I tend to believe, then the brain must be the bridge to the mind which is the bridge to God.
Is God the sum of all parts?
Are we worshipping separate God when there is no such thing?

Is that all you felt "love"? So how much loving did I give you


To be fair this is your experience, but if what you say is true then other NDE/OOBE's must have had the same experience. I think the mind creates whatever it wants I can't see
how everybodies mind would find the same god you saw. The Superconscious Mind do you know anybody else who have reached that level of consciousness and felt the same love as you and even would describe every thing to last detail the same way as you. Finding the same consciousness, god, etc.


Isn't god everything to almost everybody who believes in god, ifyou think so yes.


I think so!

There is no mind. It was made up a long time ago before the brain was discovered and philosophers have been dancing around an imaginary concept that they did not even create. Spirit identified as a separate entity, was created only by man and the human species' ability to invent concepts and alternate realities by using words that are defined in different ways. E.g. Einstein replaced weight with mass because wieght would change depending on where was located as in weightlessness.

So the idea is not to invent a new word or use the old word until you have come up with an invention that has some use.

OK mind and God are useful for a medeival worship of God or human superiority, but in the new millenium, we now know that words are just an invention which a large group of people have agreed to use in the same way. In science, we always have to redefine these words, or make up new words that more precisely or usefully represent the simplest form of the interpretation we had in mind

as within, so without! if you seek the inner reality, you will find god, because goe is there, too. man has certainly made cultural adaptations around the world, but that doesn't mean that god has no objective reality.

Turtle How long ago did this happen to you??? I think this is an amazing story, What interests me is how you have used this experince and who are you now!! What I'd wonder is since you mention this often are you wanting others to belive you?? Are you pinching yourself about this, Why do you feel a need to share this??? How can this benefit us?? I hope you take this in the love its posted in you have heard my story so I feel a kinship with you so these are questions i asked myself, I guess the point is in the end your experince was whatt you drew to yourself Why??? Namaste Sheri

Mon Sheri
Thank you for that reply.
You ask great questions, as are all, so I take no offense.
My experience happened 5 years ago.
To say that I have changed would be an understatement. Friends have noticed a big change in myself, and my circle of friends has gone through some interesting changes.
My parents raised me a presbyterian, but I was not really what you would call active.
God, and religion took a back seat to running a business and getting all the toys.
My life has been a rollercoaster. I have gone from starting a business at 18 and having a house and all the toys, to getting a divorce and living on a box of Kraft dinner.
Then I had my experience.
I am now no longer driven by materialism, and I have peeked at who I am, not who I wished I was, and now I live my life being who I am.
What I see is a world in turmoil, caused mainly by the division of religion.
Sense my experience, I feel the need and the urging to speak my truth.
For me that includes telling people that the only religion they need comes from within, and your gift to God is to be the person you were MEANT to be.
There are many NDE accounts showing a life revue is not some bearded guy in heaven judging you, but you judge your own actions and are shown how your actions affected another.
Happiness is not something to be found, it already is within you and your natural state.
You think yourself unhappy, and look for ways then to make you happy.
STOP!
Religion to me is a prison.
I talk about my experience like I do, because many others are afraid to. Many experiencers do not even share their experience with their family, friends and live in isolation.
I speak openly about my experience to show others it is OK to share, and talk about it.
I do not do it for any other alterer motive.
I speak openly about my experience for the only reason to make people think, to share with them what i experienced, and then I am happy for them to then follow their own path. I am not interested in converting others, for I know that we each have our own path and we all have our own learning and experiencing to do. I just hope that my words cause people to pause and reflect. If they do this then I have accomplished something.
As everyone knows, I follow shamanism and Native american spirituality because this spirituality acknowledges the connection we all share, which is what I felt during my experience.
Many people look to god through the bible, or pulpit. I look to god from within.
I also believe that the experience was a product of the mind, and to me that is the key to understanding God, and the answer lies in brain function.
Is it possible that an altered state of consciousness is heaven, and life here is but one state of consciousness?
I posted this to gain feedback, so it would make me think am I on the right path here.
I did not do it to preach, and am sorry if it was taken in that regard.
I want people to criticize this so lets have it.

Turtle thankyou for sharing, that was the most heart felt post I have ever read , I enjoy reading your posts and have learned much from you and am sure I'm not the only one You speak from the heart turtle and regardless of the way you recieved your message is of no importance to me i am interested in the message and its an honor to know you , I am sure you touch lives dear friend and all the best to you Namaste Sheri

lol. it's hilarious how many people dont seem to understand that the point of faith in God is the FAITH part. believing what you can't prove.

No we get that i think the word faith is not understood and over rated but we are all at different levels of understanding and faith is the starting place, it is transceneded at the atheist phase, religon is in the pre school phase of understanding as of now Namaste Sheri

Why do you need faith in TRUTH?
Your TRUTH----
WHO YOU ARE, not who you think we want you to be.
Are you honest with yourself? Are you living life as a spectator?
That to me is the best religion around. TRUTH
Faith in myself, and living life being in my truth, which is in each moment.

turtle

Instead of naming this thread 'is God in our minds?' it may be better to name it 'is God our mind?'.

Ultimately everything is one. Everything is made up of the same stuff, i.e. energy. And all energy is connected and affects all other energy in the entire system. But what is energy? What is it made up of??? Energy is a bit of an abstract concept, you cant really pull it apart too see waht its composed of because it is the base stuff of existence. I tend to think of energy as conciousness.How energy is always in motion and you can distinguish one type of energy from another by the rate at which it vibrates. Higher level/organized forms of energy create a highly specialized form of conciousness.There are varying degrees of conciousness. There may be 4 aspects of human conciousness, but how many other aspects migh there be? Do animals have conciousness albeit at a lower level? How about a blade of grass? Or a rock? Or an electron? How about higher dimensional conciousness?

Wonderful post Venomshocher.
This is exactly what I want to understand.
Great questions!!!
I would love to hear more about this.
One note of interest was that you posted that animals have a "lower level" of consciousness.
Could they not also have a higher one?
\There are many animals that I see, seem to be able to communicate with us and themselves. Just because we don't understand the routine, why assume it is lower?

Can you please explain in more detail what this connection was that you made, because that is sort of vague. I'm just looking for some clarification

Sounds to me like a mystical experience. Did you see fiery colors? Did you feel filled with fire? If so, it was Cosmic Consciousness. There is a book by that name by Richard Bucke, but it is explained better in UFOs, Psi and Spiritual Evolution. This book also has a concept of divinity which may agree with your experience.

Mystics are usually hesitant about talking of their experience. It is like throwing pearls before swine. You are to be congratulated for having the courage to talk of this.

respectfully, Cebrakon

I shall try, but it is very difficult to explain with mere words.
I did not sense or see my "physical form", during my experience.
I was very cognizant of my physical body, and during my experience always looked back(?) at it to make sure it was still close to me.
As I ascended higher and higher, my ability to "sense" everything around me increased.
It was not a total connection, per se, but an awareness that I "could" sense whatever I thought. If I put out a thought that I wanted to sense what a tree felt, I immediately became part of the tree. I would look at the stars and "sense" they were also "part" of the picture (?), part of who we are, and that our existence extends into the universe, and we are connected to it.
There was always a sense of "Love". It was inescapable, and the essence of all living things.
Also the sense I felt was that everything is as it is supposed to be, and there is no "set" plan. What was occurring at that particular moment, was supposed to be happening at that moment.
When I sensed the couple on the park bench kissing, I was right there watching (?) or experiencing what they were. I was separate, yet at one with their thoughts and feelings. I could feel their love for each-other, and they shared that with me. Physically, they new not I was there, but their spirits did, and they were supposed to be on that park bench.
Everything around me, from cars, to people to animals, were doing exactly what they were supposed to be doing in that moment.
I felt that connection. Nothing felt out of place, or did not have a purpose, everything action has a purpose.
The higher I went, and I was being slowly pulled upwards, the more connection I felt.
When I reached the barrier between the earth atmosphere, and space, that is when I was told to make a choice to return to my physical body, or to continue.
As you can tell, I chose to return, but if I chose to continue, my journey would (will) take me to the stars and beyond.
Don't know if I answered your question, but if you have any further comments or questions, please ask, and I will answer as honestly as my human ability will let me

Thank you for responding, Turtle. You did answer my question with more detail So you stated that you sensed or experienced a couple sitting on a bench and you could feel their love... this sense of love was all that there was, or primarily what you felt? So you would say that on a whole it was a pleasant experience? You did not sense or feel, or make a connection to any disturbing acts that might have been occuring near you at that time? Were you made aware of any unpleasant things in the world...? Or only good things? In no way am I trying to debunk you; I'm just trying to understand, as best I can, what you experienced.

Edited for spelling.

The pleasure is all mine.
I just wish I could put it in better words..
I regards to the couple on the bench, what I sensed was their connection to each other. Love was but one emotion but the basis for all the others I felt, exuberence, playfulness, discovery, knowing that deep down they were enjoying the moment.
Throughout my experience I felt a powerful sense of love, peace and love....
When my experience first started, and I had floated to a height just ofbove the trees outside my apartment, I noticed a couple walking the dog down the sidewalk.
I felt so free at that point, and excited, that I yelled out to them ( not thinking that they could have heard me) HELLO there...laughing.
To my suprise they both looked up, and then I was then aware that I could sense emotions, and theirs was terror and fear. They took off like a bolt of lightning, down the street, and I watched them run all the way home and slam the door once they got there, but my emotion at the time was laughing. I was laughing at their reaction, thinking why would they fear what I was experiencing.
I suppose there was bad happening as well, but I did not feel that at all.
What I did feel was that everything was occuring as it is supposed to be occuring. So good or bad, it was "as it is supposed to be"

Would I say it was a good experience....Hell yes!
Once I got past my own fears (of seeing my body) it was exilerating.
I did sense fear again, when I met the barrier between earth and space, when I looked back at my body and it was no longer close, but now a distant spec and I was tied to it by a very thin thread. I became fearful, thinking if this thing breaks in the wind I would be dead.
That is when I was "told" to make a decision to return or not.

I have to go to bed, but one more question before I do and I'll try to respond to it tomorrow: when you were "told" to make a choice, do you feel this was coming from within you -- one of the layers of consciousness, perhaps, as had been stated earlier -- or from somewhere else? In other words, from the title of this topic, it seems to me that it was a question that you asked yourself whether you wanted to return... does that sound correct? Because the statement "I was 'told' to make a decision" strikes of God, and thus of something external, but I believe you are saying God is in the mind, and thus the question would be from an internal source. So when you were "told," who told you, in your opinion?

Sorry for the delay in replying.
I wasn't told to make a choice, Once I reached the barrier, I started fighting to get back into my body. No fight, no option.
I was told that my mission was complete and I could return home.
I chose to stay to look after my mother, as I am the only child left in body..
I did not want to see her suffer through another death of a sibling, and be left all alone here.
I was reassured that she was surrounded by love and she will be OK, but in my heart of hearts could not leave her alone.
Once that thought was received, I was slammed back into my body, fully awake and alert, and totally covered in sweat, fighting to refill my lungs with air, gasping for breath.
I think my progress was curtailed until, I chose, out of love, what that decision would be, and stopped from experiencing more, if I chose to return.
I have no idea who "told" me, a gatekeeper, an angel,who knows.
I lothe to call it "told" because to me it was more telepathic(?)
What amazed me through all this, was that the essense of who I was, with all my quirks, was intact, yet my body was seprarate from me.
Hope this answers your question.

Great post.
Thanks.

Turtle , can you tell me more of the last sentence , the essence of who i was, was intact etc etc but my body was seperate as I'm sure you have pondered the heck out of this what is your opinion?? I'm very interested as you know I connect to alot of what you are saying I would also like to ask if that sense of peace and love is with you always now??? It is for me its as if its my or our natural state thoughts???? also the letting go of fear, its as if its a veil that covers the essence of who we truly are , that moment was very profound seeing fear as false beleifs are you afraid anymore???? Namaste Sheri

My last sentence was "Hope this answers your question"
Sorry, couldn't resist.
IMO, the essence was energy, consciousness energy.
I would love to ask what that couple saw that night, as they saw what you ask.
My body was separate as I kept looking at it, it was right beside me though, but I was not confined within it. That brought a great sense of freedom, uninhibited by the constraints imposed by the human body.
A sense of peace and love to me is a state of mind you acheive once you look past your ego.. I still emote human qualities, and freedom begins by working past your conditioned ego, and allow the fabric of life to envelop you, and go with that flow of energy.
To me, all our thoughts are energy used to create our own reality, and our actions are drawn from this thought process.
What you ask for(think), you ultimately receive, and this thought process works through the ego. When you let go of ego, your thought process works through a higher level of consciousness, and your life has to change because of it.
It is difficult to maintain such a state.
Letting go of fear, is but one process in letting go of your ego that then unveils the essense of who we truly are.IMO, the veil that covers the essense of who we truly are is ego which is rooted in materialism.

Merci Turtle I verbatim agree with you that your thoughts create your reality they become your behavior I say this often beleifs create behavior, I too see myself as creating my life with the thought process so I'm very aware of the contents of my mind and if I find an experince I don't enjoy I change my mind about it, It seems this understanding came for me also after my experience. My dear turtle as always you are joyous and inspiring to read, I so get you friend Namaste sheri

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Everything begins from an INNER PERSPECTIVE.
One can not see the inner workings of the bible, by just reading it, without the spiritual work that comes first from within oneself. This is a reflective thought as when you start to know things from the inside of oneself, other things begin to reveal themselves.
I express myself from an inner knowing of my NDE, and includes a duality of sight, perceiving and perception of what I am perceiving which is what you do when you go inside yourself.
It is more or less in having an experience of NDE, and their are many different experiences, but all NDE's are reflected from within each experiencer.

I know a fellow NDE'r whom I only know as manandmachine and would like to share his thoughts as it relates to what I am trying to say.

[quote]" Its in seeing the perception of perceiving and the perceiving of perception, its a duality of sight used at the same time, double relectiviness, which leads to conclusions of understandings where one understanding open new doors to other understandings, at the end of the hall way is another door that leads to the next hall way, opening the door needs understanding of all the door in that hallway first, which is what you do inside of your self, understanding all the doors gives one a conclusion and the door opens, the passage you fisrt read will take on a deeper richer meaning and spins into different directions as other hall ways perviously ventured into, become concluded all of those doors open up to other rich deeper meaning hallways and all of the hall ways are joined at some point.
that is the simplist example I can give of it, of its workings.
no different than reading the bible or reading my posts, that is where some of the people are speaking from, you have a hint of what their saying in its unerlined way, its not until one adventures
inside of one's self, do you know what they are talking about, in its deeper rich meaning of perceiving of perception. [quote/]

Wow Turtle I can really tell you truly experienced this and have changed so much for the better. My life experience is similiar to yours where I had it all and lost it. I didnt have a NDE experience but I dont think that is really necessary to come to this realization. Reading your words gave me a very positive vibration.. i dont think others will get that but i have a feeling you will. i dont think my level of change is as high as yours but I'm still working on it. Its difficult getting rid of the conditioning our Ego has been put through. its hard to keep it in check. The world becomes alot better place when you come to this realization that we are all one. its impossible to feel violent for any reason, impossible to do harm to any human being or animal. You are able to experience life in a truly different aspect. My change wasnt caused by a NDE I started feeling a difference when I started questioning who I really was. Reading spiritual books really helped me alot but you really need to know how to seperate the truth from the BS.

I noticed you said you study shaminism and native american beliefs which to me resonate with the most truth. have you read any of Castenadas books? I havent yet but they are on my reading list i have heard they are excellent books.


PS. Dont let any of the negative people on this board influence your wonderful positive attitude some people just like talking trash becuase they dont understand.

I agree you don't need an NDE to come to the realization.
Thanks for your post.

Thanks for the tip on the books. I have not yet read them but I will get around to it.

What was your take on "self-help" books?
For me it was the first thing I ran to after my experience.
I began to look to others to explain my wexperience, and I spent many a day reading others ideas on God, life. I was looking to others to teach me what I thought I needed to know.

One night though that all changed.
I had a vision of being in a prison, where I lost my glasses and could not see.
Through gaping around, I found another pair and tried them on, but my vision was cloudy.
I kept that pair because I felt naked and scared without at least something to look through.
I groped around some more still looking for my pair of glasses, and turned a corner and in the courtyard saw hundreds of different pairs of glasses strewn in the courtyard.
Since I was fearful of being blind, I kept trying on others. Some were to blurry, some were correct, but made my eyes look like coke bottles, others left me worse off. But each time I kept looking into the reflection of the window to see how they looked on me, even the ones that I could not see properly through.
In fear and panic, I kept searching, hoping to find something close, for I felt a need to see the world through a "prescription".
Once I tried on the last pauir, and they too were the wrong style, or shape or correct prescription, I gave up, resigned to the fact that I will never see again.
After I came to that realization, I( noticed that I was no longer in prison, but outside the fence, looking in. At first I was scared that they would noticed that I was not where I was supposed to be, but the guards just walked passed me without a second glance.
It was then that I noticed that I could see clearly, without the aid of glasses.

It was then and there that I came to the realization that I too trying to look at the world through the "vision" if others and then and there stopped looking to self-help books, because you are viewing life through anothers "prescription"
I hope that makes sense to you, and I think it does.

Blessings

It does make sense turtle and I agree with your views. Each one of us needs to find our own path. I read the books mostly just to get information about whats out there. While searching within is the best method for spiritual development alot of those books have very good insight on how you can go about making yourself a better person from many different aspects. You just need to be careful to not fall into any particular belief system.

Wow, what a beautiful topic. You can feel the love that you described just from reading your posts. It leaves you feeling light and at peace.

Thank you for you sharing your story with us. I too beleive that we do not have to go through the same experience as an NDE but you have given us insight and understanding to know if we are making the right decisions on our own paths.

Love and light

There are many books out there that have touched me.
Kahlil Gibran's book The Prophet was the first book that was "placed" into my hands.
Through his book, I began an understanding about the nature of nature.
When you read a book, you will know if it aids you in your progress.
I shouldn't say that I no longer turn to books, but I do use them only to form a basis for study.
Not much into philosophy though suprisingly, but I do have a mild interest in Sysphius, as you can tell by my avatar.
One book that I am almost totally aganst the bible, a book IMLO that keeps peoples souls imprisoned.
Like all books they are meant as a guide, not a way of life.

For me inner perspective is the way to God.
As Jesus understood, but unfortunatly his message has been slaughtered by people who misrepresented his message for power and money.

Your point about the bible makes me associate it with one of jesus's saying. I think the church uses it as a tool to keep the masses in line.

Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

Thanks for the book info i'll put it on my list

Let me know what you think of the book.
I wonder how much money the catholic church actually brings in every year, let alone, organized religion in general.
Like they say in the movies....follow the money.

Sorry it took me so long to respond; I had, of all things, a funeral to attend.

I find the experiences of other people really amazing, especially one such as yours, Turtle, because eventually it will happen to me (in that I will someday be near death) but not likely in the method and process by which it happened to you. What I mean to say is, eveyone, at some point, will have that moment of being "near death", but how will they really know how close they are when it happens? You were able to come back with a greater "awareness", or attained knowledge of that experience. Now I wonder: if you have come to your realization -- all the things that have been discussed in the past few pages -- do feel as though your capacity to percieve the entirety of everything has hit its peak because of your experience, or do you feel that there is still room for you to learn and become more aware? Do you actually have to die to understand if God is in our minds? To put it bluntly, has your NDE put a limit on your ability to attain knowledge...

In no way is this meant to be negative. This is simply an experience that is truly profound and I find fascinating. Feel free to respond at your will. Thank you in advance.