Let’s face it. 99.9% of skeptics on these forums are skeptics not necessarily because they believe in the ideology they apparently support but merely because they enjoy being skeptical. They enjoy sarcastically putting down believers.

There was a time on these forums when skeptics were respectable in enforcing the ideas they went by. They called themselves scientific rationalists and endeavoured to defeat superstition and ignorance.

Well, what, you might ask, has changed since?

The sceptics on these forums still call themselves ‘scientific rationalists’, but something is different.

In recent times, on this forum and elsewhere, the word 'skeptic' has assumed a different meaning.

It has come to mean the adoption of an attitude of scorn and derision towards any kind of anomalous data that contradicts current scientific beliefs; the taking on of an air of arrogance and superiority towards those who venture to investigate or write about anomalous phenomena – the paranormal.

The 'skeptics' who censor and ridicule in the name of science, whether they know it or not, are the agents not of knowledge but of pseudoscience.

Science does not need vigilantes to guard its gates. Science has been successful because good science drives out bad and because an ounce of experiment is worth any amount of scientific authority.

So, to those abusing skeptics out there, (you know who you are), perhaps you need to rethink your principles and the way that you enforce them?

Just a thought. If skepticism was returned to its former competence I know for sure this forum would be a much better place.

a men

Well, that was quite a large generalistation Socrates.
And you couldn't tell a lot of that unless you could read minds.
Chances are, you think I'm one of these people you described. But no, I don't wish to put down others. I want to learn, and help others learn.
And I'm sure most of the other skeptics would say the same thing.

Anyway, I think this as abuse in the form of an accusation. So man, you shouldn't have bothered to post it. We may have to come back to the fact, that it takes two to tango. So whatever you say about 'abusive skeptics' also involves 'abusive believers'.

You're making quite an accusation yourself in assuming you come under my 'generalisation'.

Decide whether or not you fit the criteria. How long have you been on these forums? You should know by now that there are dozens of abusive skeptics around here. Hence the post. Don't get me wrong; there are respectable skeptics too, but their numbers seem to be in decline.

You must realize this concept is not restricted to these forums. Skepticism has been taking a different role globally and the scientific community acknowledges this.

Saying I 'shouldn't have bothered posting this' is a typical modern-day skeptic thing to say and significantly weakened your argument.

Socrates, the guys here are just minor players don't let them bother you. I use to feel the same until I came up against some big guns....

Look at it as a learning experience.

There is nothing wrong with being a sceptic. But, I also have noticed a trend where people become abusive for no reason. I have read some threads where people were asking for help, and quite a few people just put them down, were mean, and cruel. That was a trend I saw in a lot of threads. There were those "sceptics" that were kind and as helpful as they could be, but there are others that seemed to jump at the chance to be abusive. (And yes, seemed to enjoy, I was starting to wonder if this was a high school forum) If I'm reading a thread and I don't have anything to contribute, then I don't. Everyone is entitled to there opinion, but there is no need to put others down. I thought this was a place where people were open minded. I love a good debate, but that consists of an intelligent conversation, not childish flaming. Frankly, some of these people who only flame and put people down have yet to say anything that resembles intelligence. Yes, some of the things people post may not be believable to some, then why not skip it and move on to somewhere else where your post would be of value? Unless these people just don't have anything of value and intelligence to contribute and feel the need to put down others so that they can feel superior. And there have been some people who were nice and respectful whether or not they were sceptics didn't matter; what mattered was they treat people like human beings, equals. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, because frankly I'm new here and haven't had the pleasure to interact with most of you, I'm just simply pointing out a fact and trends that I have noticed in the short period of time that I have been here. Why can't we have different views and still get along.

You said 99.9% of skeptics are poopooheads, PLUS the fact that we don't get along ALL that well (you tried to show me up before... ).
And the fact that you bothered to argue with me, instead of saying "Oh no, you're not one of them" makes me think otherwise.
But hey, if you're willing to be friends, then I won't pass up on the opportunity

Now, I think that 99.9% is a very harsh number. I would say that 85% of all skeptics are actually very good people. It's just a handful of idiots that indeed DO spoil the name.

Now, the fact that I did say 'you souldn't have bothered to post..' was because
1) This is light flaming, as it does insult people.
2) It is designed to get a reaction (trolling).

So it kinda defies the rules a little.

And just because it's designed to get my attention and a reaction, I'm not going to give it any more of either...

Hehe...

Now look who's making the assumptions!

I'd love to be your friend, Replacement. But please don't be a hypocrite.

No need to pick my words apart. I think you get the gist of what I said; an obviously estimated, and purposefully exaggerated (for effect) statistic is not going to hurt you. Just waste your time.

Exactly. I get the feeling some people are contrary just for the sake of it.

Dang... that was hypocritical Whoops.
My mistake..

I'm proud that this topic is about me and some other guys. As I read we are "idiots, poopooheads, minor players and the like". Is that an insult?

Anyway thanks for the topic, I'd love to see what other words should be used with my kind of thinking.

Take care and grow up..

Another hollier than though topic.

Socrates, do not pretent you understand what sceptisism is or why people do it . You dont know 99.9% of the sceptics nor you have any grounds to set the standards here. If you think that opposing someone on this forum with topics like "I can start bonfires with my mind and I can control the weather" as being contrary for no good reason then you need therapy.

PS: using a greek philosophers name does not give you credibility

Take out poopooheads, I didn't mean that.... (if you read it )

Bio, nice to see you again

Nice to see you too Replacement...long time...

You mean theres anomalous data supporting psi and contradicting current scientific beliefs? Where?

People like me have come online.

I don't think he ever mentioned psi. He was only talking about the paranormal in general.
And I think the fact that you brought this up, just proves his point.

My guess is he is making a direct reference to psi, pk, tk, and the like...as he posted it in the Metaphysics section. If it was meant towards everyone, it would have been put in the off topic sections.

What has changed, you ask? We've opened our eyes, and chose not to have a blind faith, but to question everything in a methodical manner. I've looked at, studied, and tried to understand the world of "psi". There where things I truly couldn't explain. I now am sceptical towards most of it...not for the sake of being an idiot, but because I don't see any chance in it.

Also, the way it's put out to many of us sets people up for attacks. People claiming they can move things with there minds, yet refuse to but forward evidence are helping fuel the fire that is stubborn scepticism.

I know he never mentionned psi, but he put it in the psi section of the forum.

This forum is called Metaphysics, Astrology & Psychic. The psi-subforum is further north

So you basically and automatically assume that everyone non-blieving are idiots whose only arguments are hollow? And that the sceptics live for making the believer's lives annoying by being sceptic because it's "cool" to oppose? That's a strange way of seeing things.

Just because 99% of the people here believe in God or whatever doesn't make God or an ideology or anything more credible one puny bit.

I'm a "sceptic", though I wouldn't call me that. Scepticism is neither an ideology nor something being watered out. It's no overall term that you can apply everywhere.
The world cannot be seen in black and white. I believe some things, because they apply to me, and I oppose other things.
So simple is that.

Well, that means you're an "old-school" skeptic. If you have a look at this forum and the spirituality forum, and a few others, you will know what he means with hard-core skeptics.

Also, the way it's put out to many of us sets people up for attacks. People claiming they can move things with there minds, yet refuse to but forward evidence are helping fuel the fire that is stubborn scepticism.

That just means you're as insecure as the people you oppose. If you can't control yourself in a manner that allows intelligent debating and arguing, you really aren't much better than the hard-core believers.

Oki.

It's very simple to explain really.

People only have so much patience for 12 year olds coming on here saying they have super powers. It was okay at first, we would explain and make sense of everything they said, we still do this, but it seems people are gradually losing patience for such ignorance.

It has nothing to do with a trend or a joy for sarcasm - well, okay, partly a joy of sarcasm- , people can only take so much of something. It seems to me that people are finally fed up with it all, and I don't very much blame them.

If I'm not much mistaken, all that is needed to shut us "skeptics" up is a bit of actual evidence to back up someones claim. Is that really so much to ask for?

If I'm not much mistaken, all that is needed to shut us "skeptics" up is a bit of actual evidence to back up someones claim. Is that really so much to ask for?


No. Is it really too much to ask for skeptics do it in a less offensive manner?

Don't you realize it aren't the believers that are hindering the "search for thruth" as some may call it, but the skeptics? The BELIEVERS are the ones who must provide the evidence, you said it yourself. A few over-imaginative kids on their side don't do any harm, they can be simply ignored. The skeptics however are the ones, who can't be ignored, as they are the ones that keep interfering with possibly valuable debates, arguements , etc.

Your "we can't take it anymore" argument is ridiculous, it just shows a lack of discipline on your side.

As for the joy of sarcasm, I think that's really the only reason those skeptics keep coming back to such threads.

How do I know this? There are other skeptics( the old-school skeptics that Socrates mentioned(some of them)) don't seem to have a problem with stating their opinion once in a while and then leave it at that.

Even so, it's very true, whether you think it ridiculous or not.
Also, is that not too your argument? "We can't take it anymore." ?

If you notice, the kids who actually present themselves in a mature manner are treated with a certain degree of respect. But there are those, and the majority consists of these, who just plain say they have these powers and demand that everyone believe them. If some people can't take it anymore, I don't blame them.

Just out of curiousity, what do you plan to accomplish with this thread? It sounds as if people are just complaining, and you must know it will hardly accomplish anything. No one is horribly insulting any one, if this were happening the Mods would take care of it. Though it's easy to see a few people are offended. Do you want an apology maybe?

Also, is that not too your argument?

No, my argument stands right there. It might be hard to see at first, but have a close look at my last post.


Just out of curiousity, what do you plan to accomplish with this thread? It sounds as if people are just complaining, and you must know it will hardly accomplish anything.

No, I don't think this thread will accomplish anything. No one will change their mind because of the opinions of others, at least not in this forum.

No one is horribly insulting any one, if this were happening the Mods would take care of it. Though it's easy to see a few people are offended. Do you want an apology maybe?

Apology? No, it isn't me that is insulted, how could I? I'm not a believer in the first place. Furthermore, I don't think an apology is necessary, as I said, I don't think this thread will accomplish that much,anyway.


I do have an idea that could improve the situation in this section, but it would take a few mature skeptics AND believers to be succesful.

Yes its called metaphysics (a general term), astrology (which relates to the next, and is not really talked about much) and psychic penomena (psi)

But metaphysics isn't limited to psi, as you said, it's a general term. I'd compare it with philosophy rather than psi, at least that's my understanding of the term metaphysics.

This section does include psi, it wasn't exactly strange for him to mention it.

No, not really, this forum has the highest concentration of hard-core skeptics if you ask me( I might be wrong, I haven't been in the spirituality section for a LONG time), so it's not really surprising. This doesn't mean, however, that it is only limited to the topic of psi.

Oh I agree, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise.

I have noticed some skeptics have decided they fit the criteria I mentioned, and have proceeded to winge. It's rather amusing.

*whinge

If you at all knew the definition you'd know that that is exactly what you did.

After that excellent display of genius, it's easy to see why you're so easily amused.

We're getting famous, bro. Look! A whole topic for us
I'll change my signature!!!

jayman, quit being so bitter! All you seem to do is come up with sarcastic, and rather second-rate, I might add, remarks which don't contribute to the thread.

we must discuss the changing trends of skepticism, not whinging. That can wait for another rainy day.

And the most popular part of metaphysics is psi.

Oh I rather enjoy my sarcasm.

Also, for someone who doesn't like whinging you're certainly doing alot of it.

Why don't we all a have a nice cup of Shut Up.

I'm not on either side.. because well, I have friends on both sides, and I don't want to upset anyone

The point is, this is a silly topic, which only has the purpose of getting skeptics in, to flame the believers, and then the believers to get involved.
To put it bluntly, it's to create a war between everyone in this board.
(sorry for the assumptions if they are incorrect.. but it's certainly doing what I'm saying )

And I don't think anyone wants that.
So, I think we should just let this topic die.

Sorry if I've caused any grief. All I wanted to do was give the skeptics a taste of a current issue in the scientific community, not just this forum.

In the battle of skepticism, there can be no winner.

Ack! I said no posting!
Nah just kidding

No problemo man

I second this statement.

However:



Silly topic indeed.

I don't have a problem with either Skeptics or Believers. I do have a problem with groups of people who seem to enjoy tag team sarcasm, purely for the sake of ego.

I often wonder what on earth is it these people really wish to achieve.

Is there a point to it or is it all just a huge dopamine addiction.

Of course science says it's just the dopamine, and we are addicted to being right. Dosen't really matter if we are or not, what's important is we get our hit.



and now as usual if any-one has any questions about this closure they can feel free to p.m. me