As a Christian I have noticed that the belivers of other faiths or the non-believers think that to be a Christian you are to possess the quality of perfection.

Are we not all human. We strive to be a more godly being each and every day. But to be oppressed or to have struggles as an everyday person is so wrong because we are Christians.

Why is it that as Christians we cannot make mistakes. But to hear a Christian curse or say derogatory things is okay. But to have an addiction to cigarettes or to drink a glass of wine is so horrible.

I profess my belief as a Christian and I struggle like everyone else does. But get a beating because I do not value my life. We all die. We all do dangerous things. To drive to a convience store to buy gas is a risk. Do we not all drive knowing that we could instantly be killed. Are we not valuing our life by driving to the store?

It boogles my mind to think a person is not as spiritual as the next because they may smoke or eat a hamburger from a fastfood joint. Is it so wrong to enjoy a night out at the McDonalds at least once a month so you don't have to cook a 5 star meal?

Perfection cannot be obtained no matter how hard we try. We all fall short from the glory of God it is true. But should we not love him and accept him? Just because the Christian God requires love and obediance and worship does it make him less appealling. To me I am glad to worshipm the creator of all things. For without him I would not be in existance. For without the grace of Jesus Christ I would not be saved. Does it seem that we are trying to become equal to God. How can we become equal to someone who created us? How is it we deny our God the glory he deserves.

I know I will get very few replies to this thread. But I really don't care because I have a headache and feel like any reference to the Christian God is less then great to the members of UM.

*Forgive me for I am in a mood*

I think dear, that the idea of 'perfection' is seeded, grown, and nutured in the minds of some christians.

I have heard christians denounce smoking, drinking, gambling, jewelry, sex, dancing, tv, etc etc etc. So when another christian states "I smoke" it sets up a dichotomy between what the very vocal christians would like to see, and the reality of being human. Especially if the christian in question has been known to denounce the actions of another.

Then there are the "sunday, Xmas, and Easter" christians who sit in the front pew so all can see them, but the rest of the time they curse, are miserly, and debauched as any other person.

And no, I'm not saying that you fit into this catagory. In fact, you are one of the few people I know who are a shining example of being a good christian.

I'll answer this one, 101 - as I'm sure others will...

I think most human beings thrive for perfection, not only Christians. I believe that some people of other beliefs say that Christians should be perfect because they some are narrow-minded and only think that the Christian God says that Christians must work towards perfection, which is absolutely not true.

God only wants us to try our best while our stay on Earth. God is forgiving of our mistakes and stays by our side when we fail in our Christian Faith. (now, I'm not saying that he forgives ALL Sins, mind you)

Btw, I didn't know that smoking was a sin.. I must ask my local Priest (who is a smoker) about this. Also, about drinking: don't Priests drink wine during Mass? I seriously don't think that those are Sins to burden ourselves with. Life is tough as it is, wouldn't you agree?

I think God would agree with "all things in Moderation", as long as one does his/her best to follow the Commandments.



PS: *wabby passes 101 some tylenols for her headache*

No where in the scripts Wabby does it say not to smoke or drink. But it does say don't harm your temple which is your body. Although eating food can hurt you just as bad. But thanks for the tylenol. I really have a bad one.

JMPD, I get what your saying. I guess we all have stereotypes. I have to tell my friends at church that Pagans are not Tree huggers and worship trees or the devil but a Goddess. Which is the Earth. They don't understand and are afraid to even speak to a pagan. I on the other hand fear no such person. Why should we be afraid of a person who may need a friend. People don't understand sometimes.

I don't understand why your friends are afraid to speak to Pagans, 101. All good Christians do not judge others for their beliefs (or lack of beliefs). In my mind, anyone who shuns others because of such things are not good Christians.

Girl I know. I guess people don't let God shine through sometimes. I never have been unable to talk to someone because of who they are or what they believe. I remember about 1 yr ago I was afraid of my mom's bf because he was wiccan and I would not talk to him. But only because I didn't know what a wiccan was. I thought they worsipped the devil. But I asked and he told me. I was then not afraid. I think people are afraid of what other religions are about and then they are scared of them.

"Humans fear what they do not understand. They destroy what they fear"

gee, this is actually right up my alley. I am not even religious, but I don't eat pork products, because, frankly, the idea is disgusting. At my job, when there is a party, they can't help but say, don't give him that, he's Jewish. after many years of this, it's not worth explaining. I eat seafood, cheeseburgers, etc., but not ham, real bacon, or pork. So I can identify, a little bit with this. I was not raised with Judiasm, or any other belief system, for that matter. I tried it many times, but I don't recommend it unless you were raised with it. I have studied most major religions, with a major exception of Islam. For christians here, I must state, that if I would ever consider christianity, my studies of the n.t. reveal that Yeshu followed the Law, promoted it, and expected his followers to maintain even the food laws, and even paul mentions not eating blood. My conclusion-if I were even to consider being a christian, I would have to become an orthodox jew first.

What was Satan/Lucifer/The Devil tossed out of heaven for?

Be careful of what you strive for.

But doesn't it say to be Christ like. And is Christ a God?

In some faiths, being an offspring of a god, makes them a Demigod. And if Jesus did half the stuff the bible says he did... He's deffinatly a godly being.

His very existence can't even be proven, so it is doubtbul he did any part of what he was supposed to have done (remember these things were written down around a century after he supposedly existed).

like the greek gods/ goddesses.

Afrodhite (spelt wrong) was my fav.

Aphrodite, 101?

Or Eros?

She is the goddess of love. That is me.

101, Many of us who have spoke up about our paths or have said there is another way besides the bible that actually is more effective have been disregarded or ignored I've been here awhile few christians have even bothered to do much more than call us names many of us can't even share our spiritual side there isn't a post going where we aren't knocking down some dogmatic view, Christians come off very righteous, and whats interesting is many Non christians lead godly lives then those who profess to, I'm sorry to be the one to have started this 101, of course you are human of course you have much to learn we all do, Why isn't religion helping you? My path has helped me immensly and so has many others along with many around here I am grateful for life and the things of it and seek not to keep the damaging aspects going, yet we are shunned and told we are not Gods children I read your posts its very clear , I have read "the Atheist's are afraid of a relationship with God when many have stated clearly why we have outgrown religon, its not part of religon to embrace all others but you could be a new type of Christian 101, I truly wouldn't judge you for smoking drinking or whatever your life is your own to do with as you choose, Everything is a sin and wrong in christianity I just found it interesting that slowly killing yourself by smoking is okay, you said I'm not hurting Mankind I'm saying you are second hand smoke is more damaging than actually smoking , your post on the pill you won't take the pill but you'll smoke which will eventually kill you and break your daughters heart, I'm tough I know I am but I beleive if you are to represent then you have to walk your talk , this is not personal but maybe we could stop with all this christian versus the non christians and learn from each other and embrace each other and honor each others path regardless of whether we agree or not, When you get to know someone it becomes easy to be tolerant but it seems so many christains don't bother Why is that ??? I apologize in advance to the mods if this is too harsh this message is meant in love. and kindness. namaste sheri

I have clearly expressed kindness and love to the members of other faiths. God forbid I get angry a little. Everyone does. But I am saying from my expierence maybe one is scared of a relationship with God. Do you not try and reason why someone isn't of your faith. I have seen you numerous times express that we must outgrow our religion. As if you want to convert us to a new path. Why is that? You are preaching to the wrong congregation here. I show love. The only times I get angry is when I am attacked personally or my beliefs are being attacked because I am naive. But my path is right for me and I belive that what I do is okay. I see only a few members who have said I am rude and mean. Why is that? Is it only because of ones insecurities? I am not saying I am perfect but to live righteous is not what goes in your mouth but what is in your heart. I never once say "Go and be like me" I am a workking progress. I am being worked in and on everyday. Just think about that.

101 I don't nessecarily have a distinctive path you might be seeing my opinions as preaching because thats the core of christianity I would not choose a "path" that claimed to be the only path nor would I pimp myself for any religon, each must walk there own path live there own lives, I can be many things at different times but insecure is not one of them lol, but thank you for sharing your insight its always appreciated. I have no issue with you at all, , I hadn't noticed that you got angry at times" I have the heart of an advocate and speak out on many things smoking and religion , abuse towards women, parenting with fear and punishment, the body is a temple you get the point this is not personal I seek a better world for all of us. Namaste sheri

Opinions are sometimes dagers in anothers heart. I am a very overly sensitive woman. I just can't help it at times.

101 I have never intended to hurt your feelings, I'm tough its just my personality, you have gotten alot more intellegent and stronger and more confident since I've been posting you should be very proud of yourself, I get a big kick out of reading your posts now they are articulate and interesting please don't take me personal okay, its only opinion. Namaste Sheri

Yes indeed. I understand.

I just wonder what would life be like if we were all the same. How dull and boring. Would we fight like children about religion and human rights? Would we even look at the skin color of our fellow men?

101I agree and I feel its impossible to be exactly the same similar but not the same , I love diversity I never have understod why it divides so many, We haven't gotten very far in the ability to get along of course I'm optimistic but its slow growth, So much is taught , as a mother I'm sure with your beautiful daughter by the way you have noticed they do not notice race or color they just are happy to be together, , if one person at a time could change something for me I'd like to see the end of discrimination, Namaste sheri

Yes my daughter loves everyone. Most of her friends are of minority. I think she gravitates to them because of what they offer. She tells me that she wants beads in her hair like Kendall and Arian. I told her they are expensive and I cannot buy them for her yet. The teacher said that she has declared her interest of these beads to her also. She said don't be mad if I get your baby some beads and put them in. I told her I wouldn't because Mackenzie thinks they are pretty and just wants to be pretty like her friends.

Are you in the public school system???Have you taken advantage of the resources available to single mothers???Often the schools don't fess up all the programs you have to ask but you can get school shoes and clothes for Mackenzie, I have friends that get help and you should too, its not easy raising a child by yourself. thats good that you are teaching her diversity 101 namaste Sheri

Mackenzie is in Headstart a county program. Free of charge. And they are awesome. They brush their teeth three times a day at school. Nap, playtime, and curriculam. I am so proud of her school. And the teachers love her and me. They offer their love to us and we accept it with no hesistation.

101 I have heard of head start it is a good program , its one of the better ones, I'm glad to hear they are kind to you and her, I'm not a fan of the public school system in general often they are cruel to children not at the age you are at but after kindergarten stay involved know her teachers , I'm part of the home school movement to create an alternative to the school system, I'm very fortunate to have a life that allows me the gift and luxury of home schooling, , my son (7) is thriving, Where I'm at lots of people home school so many places support the movement several of my clients presented such a good case for it i decided to tryand i can't belive how much fun and I adore my son anyways we get along very well and sharing his school experince is amazing for me. Namaste Sheri

I was always in Public school. But my mom stayed active in my schooling as a child and up to Middle School. I personally loved it because Life expierences are in school and you aren't sheltered from other kids. But if a child that is homeschool is ivolved with other activities and programs they will be able to be social. I guess the whole thing I have to say is Public school leaves a kid in a social enviornement and I have noticed some of my friends that were homeschooled didn't have any activities to do. But that was probably their parents faults.

I think you will start to hate God and religion if you think you have some high standard you have to live up to.

That is what happend to the college and career group I was in at church. We had all been through youth group together and had been friends for years. But the "adults" who were "over us" decided that we were not going to be allowed to make any mistakes or experience life. Now, I have to believe they did this because they didnt want us to make the same mistakes they did. They wanted us to have an easy life. But the problem was, they wanted us to have the life THEY had. Not what was best for us. But what they WANTED us to have.

So many things happend. A few girls got pregnant. Some of the guys started doing drugs. A lot were in really bad relationships. It was horrible. To see all your friends pull away and enter lives that were just horrible. But we didnt know how to deal with life!! We were kept from it for so long. We didnt know how to deal with people of the opposite sex. We didnt know that certain things, in moderation, were ok.

Now, I never went off the deep end. But I never truly conformed to their way either. I have always been sort of a rebel.

But I saw all my friends go that way. And some made it back and some didnt. These people were like brothers and sisters to me and it hurt every one of us.

Now, I go to church. But I dont let the church or their policies control me and my life. I have to do what is best for me. I drink occassionally. Got drunk for the first time this past summer. My husband and I were on an anniversary trip. He took care of me and I had a BLAST! LOL! But that is the first time that has ever happend. I was a virgin when I got married. Not because I thought I HAD to be. I have never done drugs. Never felt the need to. And I dont smoke. I have seen too many people I love suffer and die from smoking.

I dont feel like I am beat down all the time. I feel free to worship God the way I feel most comfortable. I dont feel like I am sinning every time I have a sip of something alcoholic or when a cuss word comes out of my mouth.

And I dont feel the need to judge others. If someone feels more like spending the day at the lake, whether they are worshipping God or nature, it makes no difference to me. I would be right there with them if I could.

I think that the "non-Christians" I have met on this site are some of the friendlies, most intelligent, non-judgemental, accepting people I have ever met! And I am trying to be just like them. I dont expect everyone to believe the way I do. Nor do I expect everyone to try and make me believe the way they do.

I just try and live my life doing the best I can. I know what I believe about God and how I feel I should live my life. I believe it takes more than good works to get into heaven but how do I know if that is right or not?! So I do what I feel I should do and I dont care what anyone else does. I take my son to church but I dont force it on him. I was made to go every time the doors were open. If we feel like missing every now and then...we do! The world doesnt come to an end and God still loves us.

Once you realize that the people who wrote the bible and the people who preach the bible were nothing but humans too...you begin to realize that maybe, just maybe, they didnt have it all together either. I mean, if I were to re-write the bible today it would certainly not be the same as it started to be. So I have no trouble at all believing that the bible is not what it started out to be. And I dont believe either that God is the one who came up with all the stupid rules the church has had since it's inception.

I believe that a relationship with God is a deeply personal thing and should not be based on ANY religion. If you cant find God on your own...a religion isnt going to lead you to Him. In fact, religion has done well to KEEP people from God.

Go find a nice place out in nature somewhere. Either by the lake or river or the beach. If you cant get to water than a meadow or the woods. Someplace you can be by yourself and be around trees and birds and bugs and grass and flowers. Where there are living things going on about their day without any concern for what is going on in the world around them. If you can be still and concentrate then you will find God. God doesnt live in the church like they teach you when you are little. The church might be God's house but I think He moved out a long time ago. You cant house God anyway. Get out into His creation and you will find him.

Dont let other people's hang ups control your life. God is not the condesending, judgemental being that the churchs try to make him out to be.

There is hope after all!!!!

Well said. IMLO

101 I agree I think the social aspect is an important consideration but in my state the socializing that goes on is kids learn how to hate each other for being differnet, they learn to hate the teachers, thus disrespect authority figures I wanted a truly social setting quaility socializing instead of standing in lines being yelled at these kids are not even allowed to talk to eash other except at recess they split them apart if they are friends but we have terrible schools, matt has lots of great freinds we do so much art galleries have a day of school oceanside. we are learning french so we go to french inspired field trips he's learning classical piano soon to start guitar lessons most is net worked through my job he goes to work with me also he helps out and we are just signed up to volunteer for meal on wheels once a month so he can experince humanitarism, I don't really know of any bad home school stories I know of the good ones I suppose, most kids are taking college courses at 15 and they seem to be more focused and articulate I have been amazed at the home schooled kids I wish school was a great experince like home schooling. Namaste Sheri