Just saw on the Australian News Channel 10

A big cat was caught in australia.

didnt say where or when was a very quick update

I heard it was a puma species

But definetly captured.

Prob a circus escape-e

will update u soon with pics or sumden

Heres the link for the story

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200510/s1477836.htm

Another link

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/st...255E661,00.html

[attachmentid=19440]

Pic of the engelbert fella with the shot cat

Thanks lowbro, I'm looking forward to seeing what the DNA results come up with.

Hey
I saw the story aswell on tv the guy seems real. Its a big cat thats for sure, a very big cat.
Exciting stuff!

This is interesting, I cant wait for the results.

...they find a big cat... and instead of capturing it alive and putting it somewhere safer for it and others...

he shoots it...

wtf did he shoot that poor thing with a tank? It was so big and beautiful.

Indeed, did you see the rest of the stuff on this at AYR?

Sure have, including the filmed interview with the guy that shot it. Hopefully Mike gets a result with the DNA

How come alien big cats are always black?

I think it has something to do with the genetics.

The video clip kept stopping and starting, so I didn't watch all of it. You'd think the government could have paid for the DNA test.

Im interested to see the results of that test....

But what a stupid way to take a picture..... Lets put things in the background so we can show how big it is..... He should be standing next to it..... because you can easily make fake photos by standing far behind something to make it look bigger....

On the news he's holding up the tail which he kept. You can get a better indication of size that way.

I know this place ..... i've been there ...and many others in the "victorian bush" .... these cats and the evidence have been all around Victoria (the state where i live) for the last 10-15 years .....

If the thing came at me the way it came at him ...i'd shoot it too !!

The full story says the cat had just killed a wombat (crushed it's skull , which is no easy feat ) so , if it attacked it wasn't for food ..... interesting to note the time of year ...."kitten season" !!

Any guesses as to why it attacked a human when it already had food ???

The tests will be good !!!

good, more and more cryptozoology creatures are more or less being proven real (The giant squid and now the big cats), though at the same time this will probably put to rest the rumour that the species of big cats are actually the australian lion if its proven to be totally different, but then again both could exist

I always though there were alien cats Down Under
too bad he had to shoot it...it looks like its head got blown of

if you read the second article, it did get blown off

nooooo

wow... overgrown cat... theres alot out there...

Right, you've just shot a creature who's existence is argued about.

Hands up who would put the body in the river?

I've always wanted to see such a beautiful animal up close like that... The color of it is amazing.

people in the herald sun (newspaper here in victoria) are convinced its nothing more than a feral cat, hopefully when they find out what the DNA is it won't be disputed anymore

*growls* no kiddin'...

disgraceful action.

It doesnt look like a feral domestic cat to me. That thing is huge, the question is, where was it living and how many more are there around here in Victoria....

well it was gippsland, in the bush area due to it being such a remote area, the chances of encountering them are particulary low (i mean the hunter who shot the cat says his been hunting for 50 years in the area, and this is the first time he saw one) but i also do wonder how many there are, i mean from the ammount of times sightings have gone on, we can atleast estimate theres a family of them out there

these puma's/panthers are probably the same creatures responsible for killing cattle

While it's sad this creature was shot, I don't think anyone would have done differently if charged by a big cat.

If proven to be an ABC it will be interesting to see what sort rulings the government puts in place.

That completely sucks that they shot it. Does it say what sex it is? A female will charge a human if it has kits stashed somewhere and if thats the case. It sucks worse.
If the cat actually charged him because they usually scram and that does not make sense.

Lapi'che

Out in the Sandhills in Nebraska where my mom lives. A puma will stalk an outrider or line rider to eat his dog or horse if they are desperate and there is NO food. But never, never, never a person. If you are hunting on foot they "beat feet" the other way. I do not get it.....


Lapi'che

black pumas are beautiful creatures...too bad it had to be killed...we'll at least finally that debate whether alien cats live in Australia or not will be ended soon

Yeh, it's gonna be great to see the dna results, and I've even seen one of these not to far from where he killed this one. Which was at my familys farm which is near a place called Wonnangata Station, 1 hr past a country town called dargo.

Anyways here's how it happened. Me and my friend where burning off, and we had just been walking up a small clearing in the bush lighting things on fire . On our way back through the clearing I turned around a large bush and nearly walked into the panther/puma, ( I was probaly 2 meters away), I guess it was getting out of there because of the fires we'd light, and when it saw me it took off. It was a lot bigger then your normal house cat, atleast 2-3x the size and was jet black. Now we've just gotta wait for the dna results.....

Which we may not find out....

Well Keegan, knowing the guy who actually payed for the DNA test in another forum, I can almost assure you either way the results will be made public. He is not someone who I can see hiding the result even if the come back as something normal

All I have to say is if he shoots it, he'd better eat it...

THats very good to hear 'Indeed', Im keen to hear the results as Ive been quite a followere o big cat stories. Its always nice to know mysterious things are going on within the walls of your own country.....

Is the DNa out yet?
anyone checked?

I totally agree Keegan

Ask the same question in 2/3 weeks TRM

Further News on Alien big Cats in Australia.

As I am from Country Victoria I find this very interesting...



Article from Herald Sun 16/10/05



NEW evidence of big cats roaming wild in Victoria emerged this week, fuelling debate over mystery felines.

In yet another twist to the big cat riddle, retired businessman Dale O'Sullivan unveiled a stuffed puma, which he said was shot by his father at their Woodend property in the 1960s.
The revelation came after the Sunday Herald Sun last week published a photo of a big cat shot by hunter Kurt Engel in June.

DNA from the cat, which Mr Engel said he killed in Gippsland in June, has been sent overseas for examination.

Other developments this week included:

A theory that US airmen used a compartment in Vultee Vengeance dive bombers to smuggle the cats into Australia in WWII.

Geelong woman Helen Gundry reported seeing a big cat while on holidays in Darwin in July.

Revelations of multiple sightings of big cats in the Otways.

A Gippsland hunting store owner offered a $10,000 bounty for a big cat shot with a bow and arrow.

Mr O'Sullivan, who said he was a teenager when his father shot the cat at their cattle stud, said the puma was stuffed and stored in a back room and forgotten about for nearly half a century.

"Nobody could give a damn about a big cat back then," Mr O'Sullivan said.

"He (his father) got it mounted, but it just got put in a back room and forgotten about. I can vouch for the fact it was shot here."

Big cat researchers Bernie Mace and Mike Williams examined Mr O'Sullivan's cat and said it was definitely a puma.

Mr Mace said it was a young animal and helped prove that big cats bred in the wild after WWII.

"This is a juvenile animal, possibly about 18 months old.

"I have no doubt about the veracity of Dale O'Sullivan and I consider it a definitive piece of evidence."

Meanwhile, Mr Engel rejected criticism of his photograph and questions about why he disposed of the carcass.

The Noble Park hunter said he never intended to publicise the incident.

"That's the way it happened -- I can only say what I saw," Mr Engel said.

They realy do exist http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/st...55E2862,00.html

Haven't been on the forum for a while but decided to come check this thread because the cat's tail was sent away for DNA testing at like the start of October this year. So it's been nearly 3 months and no reply from the DNA tests which were only ment to take 2/3 weeks!
If anyone knows anything more about the test results please post them!

Merry Christmas all!!

Ended up just being a domestic cat Just a really big one

Picture was a hoax but the big cats aren't their are records of huge cats being seen across austratia and most reports are being dissmissed as dogs by austrailian scientists this one show gave them samples of a lepord and the results said it was a dog

The picture wasn't a hoax.

The DNA results came back that it was a normal cat, a very large cat, but still a normal cat.

oh well it looked like a hoax

Ah HA! I'm NOT crazy!

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...topic=33912&hl=

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/st...55E2862,00.html

Thanks for posting that Indeed.

omg the poor thing, it didn't deserve to die such a horrible death. Looks like a black panther to me, poor thing.

Guys, the pic is a fake, alas.

The man shot a moggie (he's all squished and soggy/he ain't nobody's moggie no more) and strung it up on a tree. Forced perspective with a camera did the rest and voila! Instant Grampians Puma.

This is not to say that I believe they do not exist, because I certainly do. There are strange things in the Australian bush that are very rare and endangered, but are real enough for all their rarity.

I grew up in the New England Ranges ('panther country') and I've heard a lot of stories, and maybe even seen something odd once from a distance when we were up in the ranges doing some fencing work. However, while I believe in the existence of something out there, I don't want to go off half-cocked at the first clown who has discovered his camera can do a forced-perspective trick. The first question as an investigator you should always ask yourself is not 'how amazing is that?' but 'how can it be faked?' Walk this path and you will beat the skeptics.

As for the existance of such creatures, it falls to a couple of possible conclusions that I've whipped up and also my degree of belief in them.

1) US Airmen. At the end of WWII, US airmen that infested this country left it. They dumped their until-then precious squadron mascots in the bush and left for home. The mascots lived on a diet of animals that haven't had too many predators (apart from mankind) for a while, and thrived. All sightings are of them and their descendents.

-> Possible evidence: Both the 35th and 46th fighter groups, which were stationed at one time or another in Victoria used black panthers/leopards as their squadron mascots.

-> Possible evidence against: Sightings of 'black panthers' have taken place in the Australian bush since pre-WWII, and in some cases pre-WWI as far away as Inverell.

Cinquo's Conclusion: Possible, but not entirely.

2) The Circus Accident. Same as above really. A circus had an accident on the road and a breeding pair of pumas got away. They didn't report it to the police for fear of reprisal and assumed the animals would die. They also didn't try to recapture the animals.

-> Possible evidence: Accounts for the Pre-wwII phenomena, but that's about it.

-> Possible evidence against: No circus in Australia has ever been known to have 'lost' any of its Big Cats (which are star attractions down here and would certainly be missed between shows). Doesn't cover the other areas of Australia (it's a big country here, folks), and it also doesn't cover the fact that both panthers AND pumas have been seen (mostly the 'black panther' though).

Cinquo's Conclusion: Unlikely

3) Bloody Big Feral Cats: Feral Cats have been here pretty much since the First Fleet in 1788. They've been knocking off the native Quoll (tiger cat) and other marsupial predators and taking their place at the top of the food chain as the most efficient land predator apart from man ever since. Of course, Australia is a rich land, but also can be very resource-poor. As a result, Darwinism has happened to the predators. Only The Strongest Survive. And thus the biggest. And the biggest find the best mates, that make the biggest of THOSE to survive.... and so on and so forth. After all, we can breed from wolf stock all the way up to a Saint Bernard or down to a teacup poodle, why can't nature create a larger moggie?

-> Possible evidence: I've personally treed and shot feral cats that have been nearly the same size as the kelpie dogs that we used to chase them. These are bloody big cats that are running around here, and no mistake. They tend to run away pretty fast, although once the dogs are onto them they can be easily 'treed' (they run up a tree and sit up there)and shot. Moggies can be all black, or just about any other colour you can think of. Someone seeing one that might not back down may have a nasty shock and exaggerate it's size.

-> Possible evidence against: Footprint casts taken in New England around Inverell and Moombi, as well as south in Victoria around the Grampians shows that we are talking a MUCH bigger kitty than just the overgrown house cat. Pad prints are synonymous with that of a cougar, puma, or leopard/panther.

Cinquo's Conclusion: The most likely story for the 'big cat' theory, but not all questions are answered, such as the puma that was shot about 50 years ago, or the reports of 'large black cats' around Inverell and the New England Ranges.

4) Thylacoleo Carnifex: The idea of the marsupial 'lion' existing is a good one. Certainly there is almost enough evidence to suggest that it survived in Queensland after settlement and even into the early 20th century, such as descriptions of large 'tiger-cats' and stories of their savage attacks on dogs. Alas, the introduction of the Cane Toad may have killed them off as they may have mistook them for prey and found out (rather fatally) that it's a VERY bad idea to bite a cane toad (they are rather terribly poisonous).

-> Possible evidence: Reports of 'striped' cats stalking people and sightings are rare, but not uncommon. Unexplained killing and mauling of sheep could also be attributed to Carnifex's unique dentition (like being attacked by a buck-toothed possum on steriods with scissor-like shears in both cheeks. Quite ferocious.)

-> Possible evidence against: Carnifex had VERY unique teeth and footprints. It was much more of a really big psychotic possum than a cat, and probably would not have been mistaken for one. Also, all of Australia's marsupial predators are/were spotted or striped, and it is likely that Carnifex was also marked similarly. Stories of the 'queensland tiger cat' indicate that it had striped haunches and tail in a similar manner to the Thylacine (the Tasmanian Tiger).

Cinquo's Conclusion: Love it. Worth looking into. Absolutely nothing to do with big cats whatsoever and you're not about to mistake one for a leopard.

5) Something Else: Who knows? Parallel evolution of big cats? Alien teleportation? Big Cats across the land bridge from Sumatra before the oceans covered it?

-> Possible evidence: There isn't any.
-> Possible evidence against: Ditto

Cinquo's Conclusion: This is the last desperate hope grappled by the true believer. Logic put aside, some people will believe ANYTHING rather than look at possible realistic reasons.

Final conclusion? I don't really have one. I'd say that the 'feral cat' hypothesis works for most of them, but otherwise? I really just don't know. I want to see that Puma, and I want to try to find out more on the New England panther (SOMETHING big and cat-like is out there) but what it really is, I just don't know.

Photo perspective yes, fake picture no. It all comes down to wording.

There are other pictures floating about which had a few of us questioning feral as soon as we saw them.


Here's a link to a thread I had on mystery prints I found in the Blue Mountains.

Have a good look at the 3 toed ones, an expert came back that he thought they were marsupial lion.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...topic=47302&hl=

Hmmmmmm,

Fake in what regard? The researchers involved initially speculated that it must have been a large exotic cat (puma/leopard etc) due to the animal's apparent sheer size judging both from the photo AND the exceptionally long tail that was preserved from the corpse.

The aspect of the photograph may create something of an illusion of sorts, but the size of the tail (and measurements taken of the structure from where the corpse hung) authenticates the hunter's claim. Having met some of the individuals involved, I can assure you they are all men of great integrity - including the man who shot the cat.

Credit must go to those who investigated the case as they diligently pursued DNA results taken from the tail AND shared them with the media/general public: they came back felis catus - for our purposes here, a feral domestic cat. But a bloody HUGE feral cat.

The researchers showed great moral fortitude in 'wearing' the result - many others would have scuttled off, not deigning to share/acknowledge the results. They're actually quite thrilled with the result because it takes things in a new and exciting direction as far as big cat sightings go.

The surprise 'feral cat' DNA finding (I say 'surprise' because the size of this moggy is not what is accepted as 'normal' by scientists) has big implications for science regarding the rapid evolution of species.

Armchair sceptics may sneer, but there is more to this case than one photo. Those who have taken more than a passing interest in this case have delved a little deeper and been impressed with what they have been shown so far. Of course, in an ideal world we'd have had the body - but due to a human error of judgement (nothing more devious than that) we do not have anything more than photos and a tail.

By the way Capt Cinquo, a couple of other obvious alternatives for these big cat sightings/origins include: rumours of cougars/pumas brought over by US gold prospectors (possible, but highly unlikely these or any offspring would still be running around now to account for more recent sightings); escapes/releases from private ownership/zoos (highly likely for more recent sightings).

As for no circus ever having lost their big cats, that's not technically true. I have archival copies of newspaper reports dating from the 50s and 60s documenting cases in Melbourne and Adelaide where lion escapees from circuses were recovered (and some shot). And while I concur that the circus story has taken on myth-like proportions (several for every state it seems) there may be some truth in the story for some areas. It's entirely conceivable that big cats may have escaped from their handlers/cages and run amok, and nervous circus folk kept a lid on it - but these stories would have more likely occurred in the earlier part of the century.

You seem to support the feral cat hypothesis and even document shooting some large feral yourself - so why is it so hard to believe Mr Kurt Engel shot a large feral cat?

I certainly believe there are more than large feral cats out there, but a boom in the growth/size of feral domestics in the world would no doubt account for many of the more recent sightings that have popped up in the media - and the Engel cat.

Re: these ???creatures??? being 'rare and endangered' - if they're feral then they're not supposed to be there. Rare and endangered doesn't really come into it. We have enough of our own rare and endangered animals to worry about, and if monster feral cats are running around it can't be helping wildlife preservation efforts.

Of course, if a TC (Thylacoleo Carnifex) fell out of a tree tomorrow, we'd all be tap-dancing...and watching our backs on the next bushwalk!

BC