if one chooses not to believe i nthe bible and what it says but do believe that there was a jesus there is a god.. just not the ones depicted in the bible.. whats that make me .??

im not a devil worshiper and never would be.. i just have no faith in the bible ..

whast that make me if i have no faith in such a thing.. again i believe theres a god a but not the one we are taught to believe in..

am i an athiest ???

Hell, I guess that makes you some kind of Christian sectarian.
Church of Christian Scientists, or something like that. You might wanna read around it though, I'm hardly an authority on religion

I think agnostic.

Um you're me a christian who has no faith in the bible.... That's all you're a Christian... Says no where about having to believe in the bible...

yea but if you lable me anostic then that leaves peopl to think " oh this guy doesnt believe in god nor jesus so he has to be satans disciple." which is not true at all. i belive there is a god.. a god we have to deal with in the after life i guess .. but not a god so strong to have faith in during our lives.. if a god cant help us in the matter of our own sake during our life then why do we have su much faith in one we dont know of..

and the same for jesus.. i believe there was a guy named jesus who said i am gods son .. bu a person with supreme powers.. wheres the proof.??

im confused. im a strong catholic and have no problem and had no problem learning .. but im just tryin to figure out where i stand in beliefs and all .

catholic/ christian.?? or jus christian.?? i have no christian in my family.. nor people who study christian beliefs.. i have no experience in christian beliefs.. how do i manage to be a christian if so .?? or is it because of my current beliefs now that lables me as to what a christian believes...

Damn! I'd hate to hear what they'd say about an atheist like myself

U don't believe the Bible but believe in Jesus why. Do u have proof. What do you want to be labeled. I mean who cares a label is a label. I am Christian I have faith in Christ and proof of him thru the Bible. Why would you believe in Christ and not the Bible?

Maybe your a deist?

I agree, how can you have any belief in Jesus if you don't believe what is written in the bible. The only source of knowledge of Jesus is what was written there. So, if you do believe in Jesus, you must have some faith in the bible. Now if your saying that you don't take the bible 100% literal, than that'd make you equal to many, many Christians, including many Catholics, it simply means your not a fundamentalist. If you truly don't believe anything written in the bible, and by extension, believe in Jesus, than, yes, your agnostic. I've never ever heard anyone compare an agnostic to a devil worshipper. Remember where your posting man!

Agreed HMM. I just think he is an agnostic myself. Especislly since he said he didn't belive in the Bible. It just doesn't make sense to me. Please Clarify Chris.

Not true. An agnostic is someone who doesn't blindly believe in god, to put it simply. If people don't understand that then what does it matter? Do you care that much what people think?

ok so i dont believe in the bible.. then yea that would mean idont believe in jesus.. and jesus yes the only proof of him is through the bible....

BUT..

isnt it true that the Roman Historian Tacitus does depict jesus as a real person more less than a son of god.. Tacitus was a Roman historian who also mentioned the existence of the crucifixion of Jesus in his writings. In turn, the writings of Tacitus are viewed by historians as crucial to not only understanding early Middle Eastern history but also what we know of early Germanic tribes in Europe.In essence, while the divinity of Jesus is not something that can be proven historically, the historical community is quite sure that a person named Jesus did live in the Middle East two thousand years ago... thus giving this my reason to believe there was a guy named jesus but i think its not so quite like the jesus depicted towards waht the bible makes him out to be. ..

I'm in a similar situation, except less extreme. I believe in God and Jesus, and I read the Bible, but I don't think the Bible should be blindly followed as the exact truth because it's so old and it's been translated, edited, re-edited, translated again, etc. for thousands of years. Much of the Old Testament 'Stories', I believe, are lessons put in the way of stories. To me, the point of the parting of the Red Sea in the Bible wasn't to show that God can part water, it was to show that He can do anything. The New Testament, however, I believe is a little bit less garbled, but it's been nearly proven that it was heavily edited by the various churches; again, I don't read the New Testament looking for exact history, I read it for the lessons it can give me.

There's nothing wrong with questioning, though. I'm taking a Christianity course as an extra subject in school, and at the begining of the course they said something that I found remarkably open-minded:

(Paraphrased)"There are blind believers, and then there are questioning believers. Sadly, most people are blind believers; they just go through life regurgitating what they read in the Bible and praying formulaic prayers to God, but they never stop and actually look at what they're reading and saying, or question the validity of it. A questioning believer, however, because they ask questions and look for the hidden meanings of the Bible, will always have a better understanding of God and what He wants, and in the end will be the better for it."

Just my two cents.

very interesting..

Welcome Chris Palko To the UM forum.

Chris have you looked at Deism?

www.deism.com

A link for you.

Thanks Zandore. Desim.. never looked into it but as reading a definition on it maybe it can do me some good learning about it.. relates to how i believe in..

by reading this i found what im apart of now..


i shall learn more on Deism.. again.., thnx zadore.

Yes, Tacitus spoke of Christus, believed to be Christ. You are right. Josephus, Pliny the Younger, Lucian and the Babylonian Talmud also are non biblical references to Jesus the man. I was speaking of Jesus the Christ.



Edit: nm, you found your answer

To believe in Christ means to believe really that he is able to protect his word.And God knows he is able.However if you dont believe in the Bible really means that you have little faith in the power are in whom Christ said he is,THE SON OF GOD. Are you willing to at least give the Word of GOD a chance?WHICH means applying it to your life in order to develop the faith you need. Are you under the power of Reason?
Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

Act 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

I'd say you're intelligent.

There is a sect that many of my tribe are members of called "Society of Friends" or Quakers. They do not have spiritual leaders ( Priests, Ministers, etc.) but sit in silence and meditate on Christ and his light. They each have their own personal beliefs and sometimes even stand up during their services (Meeting) and state their own opinions. They never argue individual beliefs because they vary to greatly but respect all peoples opinions. Now these are the traditional Quakers on the East Coast. I have heard on the West Coast they act more like Pentecostals or Baptists and are one the more radical denominations there. Maybe you should look into the traditional Quakers.

Lapi'che

The whole objective of relgion is to get you to agree to the Bible as a valid and vialble philosophy, yet the evidence is in if really applyed it doesn't work it actually generates alot of serious problems, the story of Jesus has translated out into how to be a Martyr, The majority of people beleive themselves to not only be seperate from each other but the nature that supports them hence enters a disregard for nature and a serious abuse of it, I could go on and on, but this is the gentler side of spirituality Also Faith is hoping what you beleive is true the evidence of boiblical faith is lots of blood shed and discrimination and anger of this Diety. Namaste sheri

Because i dont believe whom christ said he is in the bible.. makes me a person with no FAITH.???

and yes i am under the power of Reason.. i believe everything has reasoning.. not just assumption.

I suppose you are like the guy at this website:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0001/0001_01.asp
allow page to load.

This is your Life!

SO what did people before the time 30 AD believe in ?? just curious.

maybe omeone post this already but i know hteres a word for someone who doenst belive in hevean nor hell , nor satan or god....forgot it >_<


EDIT:
Hey down there kool, i forgot where i got this one but i didnt made it ...

( didnt want ot post jsut for that... would seem pointless )

^^^^^^ wow i have the same avatar in a different forum .

Wow, in 30 AD, there were a plethora of different beliefs, most of which has died out. Gnostics are an example, (except a small sect still living in Iraq).

Wasn't Judaism around at that time as well?

I can't believe someone is using a Chich Tract to try to make a point. Okay, here are some for you:
http://www.weirdcrap.com/chick/intro.html

http://bellend.strtok.net/~tyler/cthulhu/

http://www.jhuger.com/tract/tyd/

Lol yea, and was around for millennia before. At that time there were 2 main types of Judaism, and many smaller sects.

You are welcome Chris.
9 Minutes does not seem very long of a time to choose a religion to be a part of. Take a longer time to study Deism to make sure it is what you want.

BTW: Chris there are some Deist's here on this forum that might be able to answer questions that you might have that you can not find an answer for.

If you are wanting references that speak of Jesus the man a.k.a. “Jesus the Christ”, then you chose the wrong ones. Only Josephus (pretty well accepted as a 4th century insertion by Bishop Eusebius, since no one prior to that quotes it) even mentions Jesus, Tacitus mentions a Christus, but this too is suspected to be an insertion (in this case by one Sulpicius Serverus), since it wasn’t quoted prior to the early 5th century; all the others only mention Christians, not Jesus. Even then, none of these references are contemporary, meaning that the information reported by the various authors is from second-hand sources and can only prove the existence of a group known as Christians in the late first and early second centuries CE (something we already knew). There are no non-biblical references to Jesus that are contemporary.

Actually, Judaism came along with the return from the Exile....Prior to that YHWH was not the only god worshipped by the Hebrews, he was only the supreme god of the pantheon. After the return from exile, the YHWHist priests became supreme and Judaism was born. Judaism has been around only 2600 years.

intersting to me.

I didn't quite understand your opening statement. You don't believe in the Bible, but you do believe in Jesus? How? As a historical figure? A divine being?

The former makes you an atheist towards traditional christianity, and the latter simply makes you an unconventional christian.

oh yes i havent decided yet but its more understanding to me to learn about deism. thnx.. i will read abouthis for awhile to understand more.

yes i do believe there was a historical figure.. jesus.. but i question whether or not he was this true supreme being wth almighty powers and i question god in the same way ..

ive had people say i was a bad person for questioning god and that i should never question about god.. but i do..

people say i will go to hell for my beliefs.. but im not hutinganyone nor trying to offend.. im questioning looking for reason.

This is how certain religions keep their members in line (even though they vehemently deny it), just ignore them, they have no more knowledge of who or what the supreme being is and what happens after death than you do. It is only their fear of the unknown speaking when they say such to you! As I say ignore them and keep searching.

yea i still research but i tend to keep my muth shut after grief builds and people get offended. i dont wan to offend anyone nor make an enemy nor be called a guy who betrays god.. im just curious.

That’s why I stated they referred to Jesus the man, not the Christ.



It depends on what you define as Judaism, if you believe that Judaism is the worship of YAHWEH, then regardless of other beliefs (pantheon) they had been around much longer. At the time of Christ though there were the Sadducees and the Pharisees, as well as the Zealots, which were actually many different Jewish cults, (some of which still believed in the pantheon).

Well, here is the definition of Judaism as shown by three different dictionaries:

a religion developed among the ancient Hebrews and characterized by belief in one transcendent God who has revealed himself to Abraham, Moses, and the Hebrew prophets and by a religious life in accordance with Scriptures and rabbinic traditions

The monotheistic religion of the Jews, tracing its origins to Abraham and having its spiritual and ethical principles embodied chiefly in the Hebrew Scriptures and the Talmud.

the religion of the Jewish people, based on belief in one God and on the laws contained in the Torah and Talmud

Anything before the return from exile and the implementation of the monotheistic worship of YHWH was not Judaism, but simply the practice of the ancient Semite polytheistic religion. Judaism is only 2600 years old.

ok.

But Abraham was the father of the Jews, and he lived, what, about 4000 years ago? Didn't he promote the monotheism of the religion? Isn't a Jew a Jew by following the teachings of Abraham?

im just going to go in a slight different direction with this debate....

Again in my questiong on jesus and god..

Back in school. , in my science/art history classes.

i studied that ... There possibly was an Evolving possible fact behind Jesus.. jews and christians Using Apollo the Sun God to create the Jesus Christ you now believe in.

During the 2nd and 3rd centuries Greek sage and Jewish scribe, pagan

hierophant and Egyptian priest, all contributed to the fabulous 'Christian' legend. The

common hope was for an afterlife, no longer just for the elite but for all and sundry. To

Constantine the superstition was useful.

In the early 4th century, the worship of Jesus Christ became a State sponsored cult

throughout the Roman Empire – and was particularly successful in Egypt.

any thoughts on this .??

When your 18 yrs. old you have the legal right to not worship anyone. So being that if your spiritual, there is a question of faith in yourself and what you know of as 'spirit' in you that makes you still 'Christian' if you understand Jesus Christ enough non-religiously. Without some worries that if you do not worship God, you would simply 'legally' have to go to Hell for it. Thats my take on it.

My direction anyway.....I am still *baffeled*....although...

WOW... So if i dont WORSHIP GOD ! i will go to Hell.??? interesting.

By all evidence, Abraham was nothing more than a myth, formulated along with Issac, Moses, Joshua and others by the YHWHist scribes that wrote the first five books of the OT (no, Moses didn't write them) around 563 BCE. Therefore, the Jews did not practice what Abraham taught until 563 BCE when he was "invented"

Depends on who God really is. If he is the blood-thirsty god of the Jews and Christians, then yes you will. However, there are many other religions that are just as likely to be the true religion as Abrahams 3 bloody children are, than don't believe in a Hell, only an afterlife. You probably won't go to hell, we Deists don't believe a loving God would punish eternally for such finite sins as man can commit.

Depends on who God really is. If he is the blood-thirsty god of the Jews and Christians, then yes you will. However, there are many other religions that are just as likely to be the true religion as Abrahams 3 bloody children are, than don't believe in a Hell, only an afterlife. You probably won't go to hell, we Deists don't believe a loving God would punish eternally for such finite sins as man can commit.

That might be what your real problem is, YOU CAN'T BELIEVE!.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Joshua were all real people and servants of God.

Spock on Star Trek is a myth.