The dark side of faith
By ROSA BROOKS
IT'S OFFICIAL: Too much religion may be a dangerous thing.

This is the implication of a study reported in the current issue of the Journal of Religion and Society, a publication of Creighton University's Center for the Study of Religion. The study, by evolutionary scientist Gregory S. Paul, looks at the correlation between levels of "popular religiosity" and various "quantifiable societal health" indicators in 18 prosperous democracies, including the United States.

Paul ranked societies based on the percentage of their population expressing absolute belief in God, the frequency of prayer reported by their citizens and their frequency of attendance at religious services. He then correlated this with data on rates of homicide, sexually transmitted disease, teen pregnancy, abortion and child mortality.

He found that the most religious democracies exhibited substantially higher degrees of social dysfunction than societies with larger percentages of atheists and agnostics. Of the nations studied, the U.S. — which has by far the largest percentage of people who take the Bible literally and express absolute belief in God (and the lowest percentage of atheists and agnostics) — also has by far the highest levels of homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

This conclusion will come as no surprise to those who have long gnashed their teeth in frustration while listening to right-wing evangelical claims that secular liberals are weak on "values." Paul's study confirms globally what is already evident in the U.S.: When it comes to "values," if you look at facts rather than mere rhetoric, the substantially more secular blue states routinely leave the Bible Belt red states in the dust.

Murder rates? Six of the seven states with the highest 2003 homicide rates were "red" in the 2004 elections (Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, South Carolina), while the deep blue Northeastern states had murder rates well below the national average. Infant mortality rates? Highest in the South and Southwest; lowest in New England. Divorce rates? Marriages break up far more in red states than in blue. Teen pregnancy rates? The same.

Of course, the red/blue divide is only an imperfect proxy for levels of religiosity. And while Paul's study found that the correlation between high degrees of religiosity and high degrees of social dysfunction appears robust, it could be that high levels of social dysfunction fuel religiosity, rather than the other way around.

Although correlation is not causation, Paul's study offers much food for thought. At a minimum, his findings suggest that contrary to popular belief, lack of religiosity does societies no particular harm. This should offer ammunition to those who maintain that religious belief is a purely private matter and that government should remain neutral, not only among religions but also between religion and lack of religion. It should also give a boost to critics of "faith-based" social services and abstinence-only disease and pregnancy prevention programs.

We shouldn't shy away from the possibility that too much religiosity may be socially dangerous. Secular, rationalist approaches to problem-solving emphasize uncertainty, evidence and perpetual reevaluation. Religious faith is inherently nonrational.

This in itself does not make religion worthless or dangerous. All humans hold nonrational beliefs, and some of these may have both individual and societal value. But historically, societies run into trouble when powerful religions become imperial and absolutist.

The claim that religion can have a dark side should not be news. Does anyone doubt that Islamic extremism is linked to the recent rise in international terrorism? And since the history of Christianity is every bit as blood-drenched as the history of Islam, why should we doubt that extremist forms of modern American Christianity have their own pernicious and measurable effects on national health and well-being?

Arguably, Paul's study invites us to conclude that the most serious threat humanity faces today is religious extremism: nonrational, absolutist belief systems that refuse to tolerate difference and dissent.

My prediction is that right-wing evangelicals will do their best to discredit Paul's substantive findings. But when they fail, they'll just shrug: So what if highly religious societies have more murders and disease than less religious societies? Remember the trials of Job? God likes to test the faithful.

To the truly nonrational, even evidence that on its face undermines your beliefs can be twisted to support them. Absolutism means never having to say you're sorry.

And that, of course, is what makes it so very dangerous

Oh Gosh! We've had like THREE of these things pop up in the last week how "Too much religion is bad for you" Err...Hello! Too much of ANYTHING is bad for you. So get over these silly studies which prove absolutely nothing. Also make sure to check up recent posts so you dont make this board sooooo repetative...Fresh ideas anyone?

According to your savior, you are supposed to put him before EVERYTHING! That is an awful lot of religion, even to the point of too much religion! This is the very teaching of Christianity and now it is being pointed out that too much is bad for you and for society!

These studies are just so pointless. What you said above means absolutely nothing. The very teaching of Christianity isn't to put Jesus before everything- maybe spiritually...but theres so much more to it. It's about being a good person, helping others, loving your family and neighbors , being generous and much more. How could too much of any mentioned be too much? You can always be a better person, you can always help others more, you can always love people more, you can always be more generous. This isn't dangerous at all. Your mainstream Christians are civil, friendly and kind. Oh and NEWSFLASH too much chocolate is bad for you!! :

Why do I have the feeling that if this study had said the opposite, you would be singing it's praises for the next decade? But by not saying good about religion, it is pointless with no meaning. The meaning is, religion can be detrimental to man the individual and society, the point is religion is dangerous at times!

If this study said too much "Athiesm" is bad for you- i would actually laugh at it. I tend to judge people individually and not "gather" an entire group (believers) and state that their beliefs are potentially dangerous. Many choices, ideas and influences on our lives are dangerous- then they should make a million studies based on how "too much (insert anything here) is dangerous for you. It reminds me of those annoying current affair programs that say "this is good for you" then 5 episodes later the exact same thing is "bad for you" - Either way of the end the study is pointless in my eyes.

Religion by definition to me is a structured form of belief and actions that is shared and practiced by others.
If you agree with the above statement than politics’ and philosophy are also forms of religious expression. And begs the answer do we have way too much of them as well?
Our believes, encompass religion, politics, philosophy and art and if you take away even one you impose restriction on free will itself.

All the Best
Irish

Too much of anything is bad for you. Too much food = fat, too much computer = eyes ache and lack of sleep, too much sleeping = not awake enough to do alot. You get the point.

ramster83, you should know by now that if mako has any reason what so ever, no matter how trivial, he'll run with it if it puts Christianity down.
I'm not a Christian myself, but its just something I've noticed since I've joined this forum. Oh, and for the all knowing smug nod at the end of my message coz i KNOW I'm right

They should really do a worldwide study, because I'm sure this doesn't apply with everyone.

And any other "holier than thou' religion - oh, wait, there isn't any other except for the Moslems and I don't notice them doing a lot of posting here!

Shucks, busted....Of course I'm going say I'm right (unless I am wrong), just as you are going to say you are right (just as you did!). : Whatever Incidentally, that smiley is my "trademark" I use it whether I am right or wrong or just joking! Or have you not noticed that?

Mako my friend they will never understand. The reason is school systems no longer teach classical teachings: No logic, no ethics, no philosophy. They no longer know how to reason or think. I looked up the original study and I can see the logic behind this. Unfortunately, they have been taught to reject what they don't understand, because it might be to hard for them. Those in power do not want the children to learn to actually think, then they will know they are being lied too. We are doomed.

This was already posted in the UM news.
Here is the original study. I dought they will read it. It might be to hard for them to understand.

Click Here

I think the greatest danger is mixing religion and government. That as been born out in the lessons of history and in current politics. I am actually a very religous person, but I would never want my government based on my religion.

hehe, I aint gunna argue. I just posted on something I picked up on. I'm sure you're a nice enough person, I just get tired of ppl putting things down every chance they get coz they don't like it.

As for the , it just comes across to me as being a bit patronising. But obviously you didn't mean it to come across that way and for that I'm sorry for the little flame.

Back to topic: The main teaching behind Christianity is love for people and God. If the followers went by this, I can't see how the above findings are true. IMO, you get alot of 'religious' people or people who label themselves as religious that don't live like this, and it ends up doing them more harm than good for one reason or another. Hence the above findings.

Wooo, I just read your source DW, it really lays it on the line. No matter how good the followers are or how well they practice their religion, seems that too much religion is not good for a society!

I think that the job of a skeptic is to point out any illogic in a subject and that looks to be all Mako did. This is afterall the Spirituality vs Skepticism forum.

The above is not too surprising. If you want an example of truly extremist religion, look at some of the Islamic fundamentalists, or the people of Operation Rescue (who bombed abortion clinics). These kinds of folk often are fantasy-prone and delusional, with the more extreme among them even occasionally schizophrenic. Obviously not the kind of people to make up a healthy society.

Religion by construction is dysfunctional, the ideas of religon are dangerous and have caused lots of harm no study is needed that is obvious, It turns people into victims it teaches that being a martyr is noble it sets the eample of discrimination, it divides people, it teaches if you are different you are evil it judges it labels it uses fear as its sole means of teaching i agree anything in excess is dangerous , nothing saddens me more than to see a child terrified of the devil because a parent told them its real i see from personal observation the devastation of relgion alot of the major religions will shun a family member for choosing another path , to me the mentality that says "show me a study is the same mentality that says smoking is not harmful or eating animal products won't hurt you or soda or alittle sugar never hurt anyone this is the way its always been even though it doesn't work we'll stick with it schools do the same thing their teaching is not working yet they blame everything except there system It doesn't take much to be enlightened simply see things as they are and do what works for all, those who cling to ineffective ideas have not learned how to think for themselves the majority except passed down knowledge no questions asked and will fight to the death to just be right not much else matters absolutley religion is a major problem in the growth of society. Namaste Sheri

If you want proof of fundies run amuk in everyday people then you need to check out a book by author Kimberly Blaker called " The Fundamentals of Extremism, The Christian Right in America" it exposes the nasty truth about how fundies control a lot more than you think.