Now I am no authority on religions. I just have some questions that I think I might get some answers to if I ask them here.

What I wanna know is where did God come from? Did he just appear one day and decide he was bored and wanted some humans to play with? And if he is all knowing like the Bible says he is, why, then, would he even create Lucifer if he knew that he would fall from grace. Or why would he create humans and the Tree of Knowledge. If he were all loving and forgiving why would he kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden and not forgive them of their mistakes? There's just so much that doesn't make sense to me about the Bible and God. Why would we all have to suffer so much if all he wanted for us was to live in the Garden and be happy with all other creatures. There should be no AIDS or starvation or murder and rape. Not one person should have to steal to feed their families. Drugs would not be needed.

If God really is up there. I think he has a little bit of power. He created us but has no control over what we do or how we do it. We are a soap opera for God. He just sits back and watches us destroy ourselves. I know thats depressing to think about but really I think thats about the truth. Im not so sure I believe that he exsists anyway.

Anyone got any answers besides the typical "God works in mysterious ways" and "God is everywhere and everything and he always has been" bull crap?

Our finite minds cannot understand God. If we did we would be a god? No? But why ask all these questions? Well maybe because you are just like everyone who has questioned God it is normal. But to answer God does know. I mean we have free will that allows us to choose to serve God. We also may have had the tree of knowledge and Adam and Eve sin so Jesus could save us by grace. But because of the sin there is Aids and starvation. If we did not have these things it would be like the Garden of Eden before Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit. You should go to the Spirituality sections and search and find answers you seek.

Shouldn't this be moved to the spiritual forum?

Maybe? This one's different:

You're tiny little mind cannot comprehend, and imposing your pitiful perspective and ignorant dogma on a being (real or not) such as God is grossly futile and rather pathetic.

What!? It's a different answer...

Shouldn't this go in those other forums? The skeptics sewer or something?

In the end we are all asking the same questions as you. Nobody has definative answers, and those that say they do should be looked at with skeptacism. Once someone thinks they have an answer it blocks their mind to any further knowledge. It is healthy to question. We are all putting forth our ideas to try to answer these questions.

I agree with 101, check out the spirituality section and read other peoples thoughts and then put your own in too.

sorry everyone, I did post this in the wrong forum.

We can only philosophise on how this being we call "God" works.

I myself am a Christian. However, I believe that there is much the Bible (as we see it today, anyway) can't tell us.



Consider this:

What are the basic constants of the universe? Laws.

And what are two of the dominant ones? Cause and Effect: beginning and end. But somehow, God has found a way around these.

My belief is that God is a being outside of our universe that, in some way, he/she/it was able to manipulate this one, to give it beginning and end-cause and effect. And inside this other universe, consider that the laws of this one are meaningless. Beginning and End...Cause and Effect...they can't exist. At least not in our minds.

Try this as a great example:

Can something literally exist, but not exist?-the mind cannot comprehend it.

But perhaps in another universe...

Mod should move this.....

A very astute observation.

We are all seekers on the path. Each individuals path is their own.





good journey

Welcome Kilala to the UM forum!


What God or Gods are you asking about?

Do you think "God" is perfect?

Who Kilala or me?

Well, now that you mention it, how about both of you answer (if you don't mind that is)

If I may answer as well, Yelekiah, I don't believe God is perfect in the sense we know perfection. We were created in His image, therefore since we are imperfect, He must be as well. Additionally, having created everything, He created sin, thereby He is not perfect. I do, however, believe that God is at least the closest approximation to our definition of perfect as possible, since by nature He is above His own commandments.

And to the original topic poster, Lucifer wasn't created to be evil. It's generally accepted that he was once an angel or even an archangel, it's just that he 'fell'.

I agree with you. And even if he was perfect, it would imply that there had to be a previous imperfection. We can look at the universe, even at the quantum level, there are too many irregularities. Unless God likes imperfections, I don't see a reason for it to be perfect.

God is perfect and he didn't create sin satan did we did come from his image because we to were created perfect until satan came along and tricked us to eat from the tree of knowledge ( or as I call it the tree of hell/sin ) so he didn't create sin, second he did create everything except sin because ( I can say oh so many time ) satan created sin not God


and his true name was christopher the archangel and was as perfect as God but one day he thought to himself " I am as perfect as God and more powerful than him so maybe I should be God " ( he couldn't be more wrong ) and so christopher attack God with his angles of hell and God fought back " christopher you have betraied the lord and because of this I sentence you to enternal torture in the Underworld but because you served me in heaven I shall make you the ruler of hell but you can never ever attack heaven
and you shall never be as powerful as the lord" and so christopher ( now called Lucifer or satan ) was banished to hell to rule it and wage a war against God only though God's servants ( humans )

And that the story of Lucifer and sin and his war againist God

God makes imperfection so the story of Lucifer never happens again

I think it's just logically acceptable that God is not perfect, or at least doesn't choose to be all powerful in the most literal sense.

Banished to Hell? Doesn't that mean that God created Hell as a place for sinners, and therefore God had already created the concept of sin? By very nature God is all knowing; Wouldn't He have known that Lucifer (Or Christopher or whatever) would invent sin? Wouldn't that knowledge still make God the creator of sin? Angels can't create; Only God can.

most accurately, "gods" and other such creatures can only do what believers allow them to do. (humans create, and attribute creations to their favorite apparitions).

Nonetheless, this is about Christianity. Believing angels could create would lead to the worship of these angels, which could be construed as having other gods before God Himself. It does also mention at one or two points in the bible that people had fallen in worship before angels and the angels had told them that they were not to be worshipped, that they were just servants of God like us (One instance of this is in Revelations; Something about John falling before an angel).

This reminds me of something a bit off topic but its on the subject of Lucifer's rebellion. If he knew God was omnipotent,why did he rebel? Didn't he know he would lose? Was he just trying to prove a point? Or maybe God isn't omnipotent and Lucifer actually had a chance of conquering heaven? Who knows.

God is not perfect. If he was, there wouldn't be any questions here....

To be honast, those answers do seem a little too easy, but on the other hand, it IS TRUE that if a being could do anything...ANYTHING, and he created the universe, there would be no way to understand the things he does, or understand other things that seem to be hard to understand. So, it really isn't a bad answer to say, "but he can do anything".



How would we know that it's impossible for something to exist that not even science can explain? Or something can exist without us being able to use any of our senses on? See, feel, hear, etc... There's no way to be sure. So you can't say that God can't exist just because we can't see, hear of feel him.

Personally, I don't believe in God. I went to church every Sunday until I was fourteen when I realized that if I hadn't felt any divine presence yet, when? There's no way to prove or disprove his existence through science or religion. Now if there was a God it would be kind of cruel to have created set so many rules and standards to live by wouldn't it (with the exception of things like murder and theft of course)? It's as though we were given life to do nothing but serve and worship. So my point is, why should I have to follow rules set by a parental figure who hasn't given us any hard evidence as to his existence in the past 2000 years? And that's assuming you believe in the whole "Jesus" thing. I've been told that quote, "That's what faith means, believing in something with no true explanations." I responded with, "That's not faith, that's idiocy." Now perhaps I was a little harsh. This was a very dear, and very pious friend of mine. But it's how I feel.

I really don't like church. Every time I go it actually reduces my faith because the pastor just says 'The Bible says this and this and this, so believe it.', which is ridiculous. Christianity is supposed to be about having your own spiritual connection with God. How are you supposed have that when your pastor and everyone at church tells you to think in one way and only one way? Must we all be mindless drones in the name of serving God? He wouldn't want that.

Sorry, OutFoxed, that was nothing against you, I just wanted to throw that in when I saw church mentioned.

I can answer most of those annoying questions though it will be lengthy trying to explain it all. The easiest way to do this if you consider that God and this Universe we live in are in fact the same thing. I believe that the universe itself is an intelligence at work and it is that to which we call God. So how did God come into being? is like asking how the universe came into being and we have theories on how that happened. When Mankind further understands the universe we may one day find God for real

Have a read of Quantum mechanics and the relationship to the human mind. It is literally mind blowing

Does anyone believe that God was always here?
If so, he waited several billions of years to create us in his own image.

It is. We cannot observe certain paritcles without our minds effecting it.

physics can answer that one. It takes that long for the elements to be made for life. At the beginning of the big bang, hydrogen formed into suns these suns didnt have the neccessary elements to produce life. It is only when these suns go nova and scatter their remains do we then have the elements for life; these then over time form to produce new suns like our own and planets and yes it does take a long time for all those particles hurling through space near the speed of light to form together under gravity to produce galaxies.

lol, how did that answer the question? I asked if anyone believed God was always here.

misread However I can still answer that the universe isnt linear with regard to time. At the very heart of quantum physics the building blocks of this universe, time dosent exist. So yes he has always been here

Cool.
Do you believe God is omnipotent?
(This is related to physics just so you know)

Of course he is.
sorry for being short but I couldnt think of anything else to write.

Well, in accordance to physics, the paradigm of the omnipotent Christian God cannot exist. However, that doesn't mean that God doesn't exist at all. Physics may seem heretical if nothing can exist above space-time. Therefore, God cannot be everywhere if he is somewhere.

Not true the only thing that seperates you from me ,the trees, and other states of matter is spacetime. Without spacetime everthing will be as one. At the heart of quantum spacetime does not exist. Information can be passed from other particles regardless of distance and time. Theres a few scientists out there like Stuart Hammeroff and Penrose who believe and have credible evidence that quantum physics is what makes us conscious to be able to think like we do.
Now if it is true then if we are conscious due to the quantum processes going in the brain then it is as very possible that the quantum processes that govern the universe is conscious!

I said above space-time. You can google it. Nothing can exist above space-time. But this can easily become a metaphysical discussion.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/relativ.htm
There you go.

I should have siad but I was referring to your last sentence that God cannot be everywhere if he is somewhere.

All right. It doesn't mean God does not exist, but now we have to get back to the origins.
Particles in quantum physics have been known to "destroy" then "recreate" themselves. So if God was always here from the beginning, isn't it plausible to consider that perhaps God has recreated itself many times over to become a greater consciousness?

Most definetly. If you consider that that when we make a decision to go lets say left instead of right. We cannot undo thar decision once its done so the other choice has gone. You cannot have that other choice. However if you consider the multiuniverse and combine all those choices as well. The possibilities are endless and therfore would become a greater consciousness

I think you misunderstood me because you are talking about universes now. But that too is an interesting topic. Now for this original universe to have been created, supposedly a hidden dimension hit another dimension, etc. Is God these dimensions, or is he the one controlling them?

You don't have to answer that, lol.

^ Idiot!!! People like you really piss me off!

THank you

And really i mean all of them.

Well that puts a whole new spin on things.

how is that possible there is only one God there may be loads of different religions each with their own beliefs as to what God is but they are all based on just the one God.

Not all religions are based on the same God. In fact, some religions are based on MANY DIFFERENT Gods.

yes and if you look carefully at those other gods they are borm from another more superior God. Besides just because people believe in say a pantheon of Gods those Gods represent a human attribute ie love war science etc. Because these Gods exist in the minds of those who believe in them dosent actually mean there is more than one God it is just their way of expressing their culture.

Very true. Other cultures steal gods in other words.

So, you could say the same thing about 'God' in general ...

Because God exists in the mind of those who believe in him/it(?), doesn't actually mean there is a God. It is just their way of expressing their culture.