I need to debate the falicies created long ago and ever since feared through a few truths twisted to control the masses to this day. Though can 1 billion catholics be wrong?



http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

what do other religions say about lucifer real or not?

because high freemasons say to open the hands of lucifer...why ?

http://bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/masonapollo.html

Of the above, one article displays a christian concern over freemasonry...is this a vatican concern/ because the royal families are freemasonic, the majority of european churches and cathedrals are also freemasoinc...I really see more of a colusion between vatican and masons, do you?

here is some stuff on Albert Pike, well his entire book that sparked off so many articles over the dark side of the force within freemasonry...the author actually states that there is no rival to the most high who has been known with many names like osiris, lucifer, allah, yahweh etc...

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/apikefr.html]

i have also found little reference to lucifer with the hebrews and nothing with buddhism...he must be popular if so evil.. hasanyone seen anything within other religions

in response to your concerns over the catholic church - http://www.remnantofgod.org/blackpope.htm

very long interview, WELL WORTH YOUR TIME!

p.s. very important!!

Well, to start with, different interpretations of the Bible is what makes for so very many franchises of Christianity. Visiting a Christian bookstore you see MANY different versions, and the difference between one word or another may change the outlook on an entire sect.

Your first link to Freemasonry/Lucifer links has so many inaccuracies that I can't even begin to address them. They even cite people that have been debunked as making stuff up to make their case (Baigent, Leigh) and take stuff WAY out of context.

Sorry, try to make a more coherent argument and I will try again.

The word Lucifer originates from Latin, or maybe Greek. I think Latin though.

It was a god who used to pull up the sun, I think.
It is in the Aeneid anyway.

If it isn't serialist, then it's just plain normal...
i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'





That sure made me laugh, though the argument was really intended to compare, to eventually decern concepts unbiasly, because in reality, no proof of Lucifer has yet to be shown even as jesus was by idol. Pike was most responsible for this forum section being here. As he places Lucifer as one of the many `godforms' or `dieties` depicting the most high
With much said within the pages of his book (linked above) and this link below I assume there must be a way to compare and be close to assuming any validity?




http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike2.htm

to be honest, i am fishing around for public opinion on Lucifer's relevancy as a real entity. i have no real opinion on him except for why the catholics would make him evil what he really is?

As he seems central to the whole conspiracy arguement where my spider senses are telling me that there must be a reason for the unreliable evidence that any bible explains the facts around him or jesus the sun.

If the accused co-starter of the KKK and author of the above ebook, was guesting or lying to say, dissinform the masses, then there really is no conspiracy, or a conspiracy behind a smokescreen of a conspiracy. But he also believes in the entity Lucifer ...so how real is this NWO as a unit of seperate conspiracies. Or If the NWO is real, so is Lucifer?

The christian bible arguments within the first link were exactly for as you stated... Yet unbiased, but ultimately, they all will be weak arguments...as for the literal proof of the existence of Satan or Lucifer...So I really do not accept yes or no...just asking around,,,

Was the god who used to pull up the sun every day or was it only during certain solar/galactic cycles.?....Most of these gods seem to me to be just the sun or if appearing in cycles then as the sun passes again through the photon belt (as our sun seems possibly to be reacting to) perhaps is an oportune time for the return of whoever they are that the Illuminati tune when channeling...the extreme that i heard was a merging of dimensions going on, but not yet with any significant proof...





'I'm off to a BP garage for a mushroom slice.'- Alan Partridge

Ahh, http://www.mt.net/~watcher/new.html, that is a great website. it is one of the first websites to really give me alot of information about certain things. it's a shame it hasn't been updated lately though. it only gets updated whenever there something big happens like 9/11, and things of that nature... but i have noticed that in spite of their absence they have made a forum which keeps the fire alive.

Zeus, now THAT'S a good post. I can deal with that one!

Backstory first: for nearly 1500 years, there was only one main Christian Church... the Catholic Church. According to the original Catholic tradition which is the basis for nearly all Christian franchises today, Lucifer was indeed the "light bringer". He had the job of singing the praises of God like an announcer. The story continues that he began to see himself as set above the other angels - and began acting as such. He did gain a following of quite a few fellow angels...

God gave him the choice of repenting and continuing in his duties - or "something else". He basically flipped off God, saying basically that since he was above the other angels, he was a god unto himself.

For his impudence and pride, God threw him into the Lake of Fire... and this is supposedly where he sits today... upon the "white throne".

In the Book of the Revelation of John, after the Second Coming and the four horsemen are defeated, Jesus will descend into hell and sit upon that very same White Throne of Judgement and judge all souls according to their worth.

BUT - this is tradition according to the Catholic church - with some bible thrown in at the end. Some makes sense - some doesn't - like why Jesus is supposed to go to hell and sit on the throne that Lucifer sits on now. There is no mention of beating up Lucifer - just the four horsemen - so where did Lucifer go? Are they one and the same? Of that, I have no clue... but my basis in Christianity keeps telling me that there is no way.

Now, regarding your last section about the relevance and "truth" to Lucifer... I have to use just guesswork here. To have good, you must have evil. To have "God" you HAVE to have something that is "ANTI-God"... so there is a rational basis for having an Big Evil Bad Guy... someone to fight against. You will find that there are just as many people that believe "Satan" is real as there are that say that "God" is real.

Real proof? There is none. It all comes down to faith. The faith that there is something that goes bump in the night, that does its best to keep us from getting where we want/need to go.

Howzat? Did I come closer to answering anything?

Regarding your quote, the seeds of Communism are much older than just the late 1800s, so - without proof - I doubt the authenticity of the people that supposedly made that quote, it isn't "period". I it like reading a quote that said that Eisenhower said, "Kruschev is dissing the US." Sorry, but "dis" is a 1980's word, not 1950s. This is why I doubt the quote is real.

The word "Nazi" didn't even exist in 1871 when the letter was supposedly written...

And the Great War of 1915 wasn't called a World War until the 1940s when we started where it all left off.

The linky is quoting something that was "copied" by an American during the height of the Anti-Masonic Movement in the US - copying something that cannot be verified that actually ever existed - and the only "proof" that it existed are numerous places that discuss the copy - and NOT the original. To me, that steps over the bounds of acceptable proof.

Freemasons are not a secret society, they are a society with secrets. Most of their secrets are fallacious and not worth knowing. If you read enough, and live long enough you will discover their secrets without any help from them. "To open Lucifer" is to create a nuclear war. Lucifer is also known as Azazel in oldest literature was cast down and sealed in stone. (The world was destroyed 25,000 ago by a nuclear holocaust). To open/free Azazel is to crack the stone of uranium. "And an angel went down and lifted the stone"that kept Satan/Lucifer/Azazel in the burning pit.
Uranium is also the stone in the King Arthur legend that he pulled the sword out of. Uranium is used for making nucleatr weapons; and the destruction that marks the reign of Satan is nuclear war.
The Bible codes (original) predicts a nuclear holocaust in 2006. This original bible code has been very accurate so far. I suspect that the mark of the beast ; 666; in the bible is for 6/6/2006.
Sorry I can't be more optimistic, but as someone once said, "We are the authors of our own demise".

So jjtss, do youhave any cites regarding Azazel and the nuclear holocaust that supposedly happened that there doesn't seem to be any evidence of? Where did you get the quote regarding the burning pit?

Uranium is only one of four or five things that can be used to make nuclear fissile material... so that section is a bit off. Please, King Arthur? There is no verifiable proof that there ever WAS a King Arthur!

Bible codes? Come on, it has been shown repeatedly that there is any number of "codes" that can be manufactured out of thin air regarding ANY book. Who's calendar are you using to come up with 6/6/06?? We are using a different one that was used when the Book of Revelation was written, so perhaps your date has already passed... or perhaps we are supposed to use the kabbalaic calendar...

Oh, and don't forget that there most probably were alarmists back in 1006 as well. (6/6/06 is the END TIMES!!)

Please try again.

Holocaust evidence is in the middle east and nothing could have caused it unless the force of high heat. read the Vedas, which is a poetic transulation from sanscrit, the whole rendition of the war. The story of that war and Lucifer being thrown from his seat in heaven seems wrong, especially if he is cast in stone and our society still loves the bathing in blood sports. As if god now in control from the end of that war decides to treat earth with a few thousand years of lies and tears as leadership. After all lucifer is out of the picture. God must have at least done good things to everyone like finish poverty or teach us how to love. NO WE STILL HAVE ANOTHER TO BLAME FOR HUMANITIES LOSS OF CONTACT WITH god. Satan. Where I am confused is whether Lucifer is really an angel or not. If he did exist, as the vidence proves wrong, then really he is the light. In terms of the freemasonic perspective. Lucifer Horus Baal or whoever he is is the top dog because of the power of the light. To know what light is is not easy for many. Imagine a healer who heals everyone the time he walks through the room. I mean cancer cells and brain hemprage etc. Light is a radiation that allows the body to revert to the dna imprint despite fat, emotional bagage and etc. There is a deep science in light from the chinese sages. It is a real physical energy. fOR LUCIFER TO STAND IN A CONCERT HALL, EVERYONE WOULD BY DEFAULT. bE HEALED AS LUCIFER STANDS ON THE STAGE. We are talking about a body of so much light, Freemasons refer to him as a sun god. a MORNING STAR seems a little too high an expression for lucifer. Unless the light he carried was that important. So for god to banish him and the world still remains as hell so long afterwards, what is god up to. The story I read once was that greed too some angels against the flock a war existed and the victors were the ones who were the darker group of angels who took over the planet from the ruler lucifer and proceeded telling lies about him and humanity in general. Though this alternative story to the bible is as probable, i certainly dont believe it. but it ties closer to why the freemasons, the illuminati and all of this solar system are waiting for lucifer to rise again. And defeat god? How could he ever defeat god unless god was only another angel?



Skull and bones, does that not mean enlightenment through the light and bones?
Just guessing. I totally refute tha bible's claims by grounds of there being a continual brutal existence on earth. Either god is having fun with us or he is an inpersonator within the books.


The alchemists in the Illuminati are waiting for the return of the light by their very doctrine and perhaps that's what skull and bones really means. The researchers around the light indicates changes in our dna have already become as well as changes in the magnetic fields of this solar system. As the new agers may have been calling it `christ consciousness`.


All this hints to the fact that Lucifer may be for real. This is the only hard evidence of his existence. people actually walking in the light and changing as we all are. Physicly and psychicly and mentally and emotionally. I have been monitoring for signs for years and noticed just recently that we are on a current high of activity on earth right now. Because of the waves creating the sun to bathe us with higher vibrations of it's radiation.

Knowing how the ancients used idols as dieties for the planets and their cycles (later to be made into real people by the bible regergitation of the then pagan cultures and fables), i see the freemason's in their studies. symbols of real events occuring and perhaps a planet X return. But they are waiting for something to happen, despite the failed prophecies. So either that is lucifer the man or lucifer the new star in the sky as we read in the bible and his arrival on earth, or periodic solar changes that have caused floods and plagues in the past. I am not sure, but i would prefer to understand the tag names and what they represent in reality. http://www.mt.net/~watcher/stones.html shows me the possibility of the result of solar system changes that we have these names. Do some satanists call satan saturn, or the god saturn or from saturn?

the vast majority of this post is based on experience. The exisitence of the electromagnetic energy LIGHT is so easy for me to pick up. I can even see it and have experienced many of it's effect on my body and the world. So the stuff about something happening is as real as i walk it. Maybe if we knew the freemasonic and illuminati purpose with linking to lucifer...Obviously it is not to see him fail again against god. They know that much of history, they probably interfered with the book in the first place. So if they know Lucifer is going to be defeated (like the satanists) why have they not worked it out that they are playing the looser's side. Jesus raigned suoreme, so why are the masons cheering for Lucifer, unless the book is no way accurate to the story of Lucifer and god. Why wait for a NWO, are they expecting change ahead of us? How is Lucifer really and physically involved wirth our future? or is he a myth. the biblical referencing is as useful as using fictional novels for proof. Thanks anyway.

It is actually the Latin name for Venus as the planet appears in the morning, the "morning star". The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light, as the morning star heralds the coming of the sun, brightness announcing or bringing even more brightness. More at: http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

A very small look into 666 and revelations. Have you seen Star Wars revelations. About the Sith lord who pretended to be jedi. A free download of 217mb of this 40minute geek spent movie will be found Here And i am concerned on the transulations in http://www.mt.net/~watcher/stones.html . The first question is on the identity of source of the scriptures as satan must have influenced them no?
Secondly i prefer it more preductive if we were focusing on the bibles of the freemasons and Illuminati and not on a refuted inaccurate book that still leaves the mind to ponder for truths. The truths are probably to remain secret under our noses. I hope your link makes for better reading larry. Especially when the Illuminati and the new religion are right here with us and are avaliable to research?

Zeus, can I set something straight? The Freemasons don't have a bible.

We keep a copy of the standard King James Version on the Altar in Lodges that are predomenantly Christian. We have the Talmud in Jewish Lodges, a Quran in Islamic Lodges, and I have heard that the Eddas and other works can be used for other faiths. Then, to muddy the waters further, in Lodges with multiple faiths there are possibly several Volumes of Sacred Law on the Altar... I've been at Lodge with a Bible, Quran and Talmud all sitting next to each other on the Altar.

Sorry if I get personal here, but that is pretty cool if you ask me.

Um, please remember that Star Wars is a fictional movie and millieu.

The link you just provided was full of a WHOLE lot of conjecture... sure, there are lots of biblical "quotes" from various sources, but to jump to the conclusion that a race of angels was destroyed in a cataclysmic explosion of a planet is a bit of a stretch. No, let me correct that... it is totally illogical. There is an unbelievable dearth of supporting info for this. Sure, there are asteroid belts and planetary moons, but an explosion large enough to obliterate an entire planet between the fourth and sixth (fifth) in our solar system would have destroyed planets on both sides... which it didn't... which throws the entire theory into doubt.
High altitude photos of the Earth with crappy cameras will produce (have produced) similar photos to those of Mars that seem to show "pyramids". That is what a mountain looks like... a pyramid.

Recent info from Europa shows liquid and ice methane - NOT water or "ice"... This does not support the theory that it was inhabitable and that there is "water".

Your idea and questions about the origin of Satan/Lucifer is still valid, I just think you are reaching a little too far into the "woo-woo" category to find answers.

Being able to sift for answers through the bible is like learning in addition what the grand masters of freemasonry have kept hidden from the lower initiates. I already have been given proof of lucifer's and am writing this post to clarify a way of personal proof which seems impossible.. I have many unusual experiences but of lucifer, they are the highest and most serious experiences of my life. I am that much a skeptic that I was hoping for responses diverted from the catholic sources. i suppose it would be good to know what I know is fact. but i have had changes made to my life and am offline mre permanently from tonight. i was told that i would know of his presence through the acts he will make to move earth into the future with the mosy amount of souls surviving as possible. Quakes should continue this year to prove his existence. i only wait that reality to show. Good luck

I would like to suggest that PETA take action against your gun toting kitten visual. To the subject at hand, I myself know much of the entity Lucifer, if that is what his correct biblical name is. He is to be respected and abhord in the same gasp. His intelect is without challenge yet does him little good due to his insanity. The less spoken aloud regarding this father of all opressed and forgoten by the riteous the better, tis worse than one could ever comprehend. Be afraid, be very afraid.

The only verse in the bible(any version) that states the name lucifer is ISEAE 14:12 which is written in hebrew. you are correct mr ed, lucifer is a latin word which means bringer of light or light brearer. now the actual hebrew name in isaea is Haylayl-bayn-shachar ~meaning:morning-star - son of - the dawn. true hebrew. in revelation 22:16 jesus refers to himself as the morning star, in greek the word is phosphorus. no joke. matches were called lucifers in recent years, some matches now contain both phosphorus, and sulfer, which of course is another diabolical symbol. now i dont remember the verse but jesus says there is neither male nor female, rich nor poor, bond nor free, greek nor jew but there is only one.
What do you think your sopposed to exclude from such a bold statement. only one. God is refered to as the omnipotent and omnipresent, meaning I am here in front of you. I am.
I exist. all is a part of me. there is only one. put down the apple. there is no division there is only one.the truth of life is that without opposites nothing can exist. but only when opposites are harmonious and joined together as one. now by any name one may worship me iam still the only god as the many gods i am, who are you to place limitations on my power, how can there be an all powerful deity if there are any limitations whatsoever on that power?

Interesting thread...

So Lucifer is the bringer of light. Assuming light means knowledge, one could say, you would become illuminated. But I thought God represented light. Regarding the story of the garded of eden, wasn't it the devil (lucifer) who made Adam and Eve realize they were naked.

Maybe lucifer emphasizes self awareness, as well as self indulgence. Living for yourself instead of living for God

my two cents...

Lucifer was originally a God of a civilization that used to... Bring up the sun in the mornings. I believe it was greek or latin.. Though Im no professor of this subject.

I find it interesting that christianity has used the construct of Lucifer/satan/the devil, more than christ as a way of keeping its flock in line. To me that says they use this figure as a boogeyman. I think as far as Freemasons go, as a group they enjoy having power, however limited and use whatever figure be it Christ or Lucifer as a figurehead to get it.
I hear a lot about how many secret societies use devil worship etc. Skull and Bones, Masons, whatever. I still think its boys (men) wanting power and using ritualized "weirdness" as a way of having some connection and can use that connection later in life for a what is really a good ole boys network. People do evil because they choose to not from some influence by demons or satan, whatever.

Can ask you. Is it possible that history of the past may have been corrupted by controlling leaders ?

Could history be also suppressed by benevelandt leaders who prefer humanity to move forwards wmore in grace, e.g. teaching our children today of Moloch and the past worshippings and child sacrifices by a great many cultures ?

silly me, i was hoping to shed light on an old problem humanity remains with. the flexibility to understand a truth, but with the flexibility to also accept that somewhere in history, falsities are fgreatly probable.

GENETICS, OR GENESIS. or whatever. So hard to see another story.

The serpents exist and run this earth, but are you sure it was not the serpents who also adopted and rewrote the bible /

how probable is it that the serpents also whispered in the ears of the prophets and misslead humanity away from what they prefer kept secret.

what if the real history had creatures of light protecting the growth of the new humanity, against the serpents, but lost. The return of the Light is familiar to any ear. So we are in darkness, controlled by the dark serpents or dark light. No way am i going to convince you, but.

Perhaps the now rulers of humanity control every aspect of information. Including what goes on with the internet, mobile phones, bank reciepts etc. they own you. Perhaps, jus perhaps they also own the bible. The many times it has been changed indicates they might have. All organisations that began pure, always are infiltrated by these creatures.

perhaps REVELATIONS is a great secret in reverse.

believe me. a creature of light can kill, but by default Light outpouring from their body heals anything around it. changes matter, bends reality. Who the bad guys are is by no way a far gone conclusion. It is more prudent to identify that there was never any good and evil outside humanity and it's moral codes. But as for Luke, I think he is the evolved symbol that holds many people walking to the light nomatter if he is evil or not....

Seek the darker elements within you that you blame Lucifer for.

hen understand the corrupted leaders, lost from the word, yet still expecting Lucifer to bring them paradise. They are in for a nasty shock. this year will begin this. i promise.