No, you don't. Really, I think it helps with the condition. Some others are disillusioned after trying to place their desires above God's resulting in frustration and anger they then misdirect outwardly.


<sarcasm> No ignorant hate-filled bigotry here. Move along. </sarcasm>



Pagans... whose founders perfected the art of ritual murder and debauchery...

I'm not claiming anyone on these forums are debaucheristic ritual murderers, unlike those that bring up the witch hunts and cruisades and try to pin Christians with that tag.

again I would like to know where this information of Pagans doing those things? not the romans, egyptians aztects mayans etc but pagans........where is it?

bacca pagan just means "old religions" sometimes.

when? to who? so I can put any definition I want onto any religion I want no matter if it is true or not now? that will make everything a whole lot easier for me at least being accurate won't matter

At least that is what some of the pagans told me. Ask SC she knows. I asked her once and I believe that is what she told me. *shrugs*

I would be curious as to why you would cal me hate filled and a bigot because you disagree with me, why do you need to be commanded to not kill daily why do so many christains say I would kill and be a much worse person if it wasn't for religion , I'm responding to the christians posts, I wonder why you would be a part of such a moronic value system, now Its bash the Pagans i think the only hate is in you, People show us who they ar, and this is never more true in the religious persuasion, I have yet to see a Pagan bash another or attack because they disagree I see them saying where are yougetting your info, I have never seen a christian do that. namaste Sheri

I personally don't know a single person who would consider paganism anything like romans or mayans........perhaps some do I can not tell others what to think or believe but they are entirely separate beliefs.......it is like saying that catholicism can be called the same as buddist it just doesn't fit...........but that's just my opinion

Exactly Do you teach out of the bible Pagans???

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']
I would be curious as to why you would cal me hate filled and a bigot because you disagree with me,[/quote]
That's not the reason. Calling you short sighted would be giving you the benifit of the doubt.

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']why do you need to be commanded to not kill daily[/quote]
Again, calling you short sighted is simply giving you the benifit of the doubt.

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']why do so many christains say I would kill and be a much worse person if it wasn't for religion[/quote]
Ask the ones telling you that. Why does it bother you?


[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']I responding to the christians posts, I wonder why you would be a part of such a moronic value system[/quote]
Is that stated as fact or opinion?

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']now Its bash the Pagans i think the only hate is in you, People show us who they ar, and this is never more true in the religious persuasion[/quote]
What are you trying to say?

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']I have yet to see a Pagan bash another or attack because they disagree I see them saying where are yougetting your info, I have never seen a christian do that. namaste Sheri
[/quote]
oooook.... there's all kinds, in every group... guess yours is perfect?

Anyway to ease your curiosity, this is why I said what I did in reference to your post.

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 16 2005, 08:40 PM' post='890529']
The only ones that need commandements are the religious[/quote]
That doesn't strike you as ignorant and bigoted? (religious and christian are separate things) and the commandments are basic law in most societies with or without "religious" connotation. And yes, *some* people Need them, again, religious or not. Just because you hate the 'religious' doesn't make this not so.

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']the only ones who need to be told to do good are the religious[/quote]
Unless you're the new Jesus, everyone needs to be told to do good at some point. What's with singling out the "religious" (the "religious" can be as good or bad as any non)

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']no one is better at showing what religon is about then the religious[/quote]
No, there's plenty of non-religious that are ready willing and able to show what their twisted idea of religion is. But thanks for showing an example of closed-minded hate.

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']interseting the only ones that judge or condemn or discriminate or hate are the religious[/quote]
At this point I actually thought I'd been had and you weren't being serious as every comment above is an example of condemnation and discrimination through hate.

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']I can see that you emulate your diety very nicely vengeful, bitter mean bigotted, condemening justified in verbal abuse.[/quote]
Now isn't that nice and peaceful promoting unity and love? If you choose not to understand, that's ok, your choice, but come on... don't try to ply those with understanding with such statements like that quoted devoid of any.

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']The Pagans we have around here are the finest examples of what the new spirituality looks like. Namaste sheri[/quote]
Do we ever tire of punishing a group for it's corrupt members? It was Atheists that beat me to a pulp, wasn't a Christain or Muslim or Jew or... it was Atheists kicking me in the face.

[quote name='bacca' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:03 PM' post='891133']
when? to who? so I can put any definition I want onto any religion I want no matter if it is true or not now? that will make everything a whole lot easier for me at least being accurate won't matter
[/quote]
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pagan

When in history has the word "Pagan" not been associated with human sacrifice and/or sexual debauchery except in modern "white is black and black is white" times?

God; in his creating Satan, did indeed create evil. Satan started off good, but let his heart become envious of the worship God was getting! So, yes, God – in his all-knowing, being that he sees all things – did indeed create a entity that would turn against him, so created evil!

Please give me some references of Pagans being what you claim? And please for my own personal amusement would you define in your own words what this is supposed to mean 'sexual debauchery' I do find that one funny. I understand that the modern religions find sex as a bad thing, which in my opinion is just a way to make people feel bad about one of the most natural things a person can do. If done safely and by two (or more) consenting adults there is nothing wrong with it. Unless you make it a religious issue and again that is just you doing as you are told and bowing down to some other man's will of what they used to control the masses hundreds of years ago. You are right there are good and bad people everywhere and they call them selves by all religions or kinds of worship.....but in everything that I have learned and studied there is no accurate way for you to say that Pagans were any of the things you say since almost everything about them was secretive and or destroyed by the church.....so no one can know for sure one way or the other. So again I ask where is your information coming from that you can condem pagans they way you do? or are you using some church dogma that again is based on writings from men who wanted people to fear them so that the torture imposed on those convicted of witchcraft was no looked down upon...............

What? You're pagan I thought? Shouldn't you know about all this? "Pagan" is a pretty wide term... google has quite a bit, wikepedia... do you really not know about baccheous or the aztecs or the term "walking the fire" etc etc etc throughout history around the world...??????


I use the dictionary meaning. For a more general paraphrase, wanton gratification.



looking for an ounce of reason... hmm... nope, don't see it in your post there...
modern religions find sex as a bad thing eh? You do live on Earth don't you? Wanna know if we're coming from the same place... sex is a bad thing... rofl sheesh. I guess in the same sense you could blurt "eating is a bad thing".



or non religious and non worship



Are you trying to tell me... wait...
What's *Your* definition of Pagan? Cause it seems to me you're a subset of pagan. maybe Wiccan? Do you want me to speak to your subset or paganism as a whole? Helenic? Canaanite? What are we talking about here? I try to understand all sides, so I'd like to know what common ground we're coming from if I'm to attempt to respond appropriately. Ya'll should try that sometime.


Statements like this I like, they give me an idea of the closed mind I'm dealing with.


Condemn!? What are you on about? When did *I* condemn pagans? Anyway, my information mostly comes from pagan friends/aquaintances, books, and the internet. Funny story, I'm too "brown" to be part of one "pagan" group I came in contact with. They were Wicca subset.

Aahhh but you see... Your dear bible holds stories of God demanding children sacrifices, daughters being sold to slavery, people being stoned... So before you cry about how us evil pagans are evil for "burning babies" take a good hard look at the past of your own faith. It's not any cleaner. You do remember the Inquisition, Witch hunts, thousands killed because they wouldn't convert to christianity in verious stages in history. Even here in the US... it's happened. How many Natives were killed off by "good Christians"?

So before you call us evil... learn some founded history.

Silver , just as a few decades ago they felt the wizard of Oz should be banned becasue there children might think there are good witches, That Harry Potter is something other than a delightfyl fantasy.It wasn't to long ago that a popular tool of divinitation was to open the bible and where ever the finger fell, imagination and symbolic interpretaion would find an answer, , Isn't it just like religon take the heat off of thier heinous behavior by making up stuff about others that little practice is now called politics modern day. Namsste sheri

Well that's not how it's presented.





When did I call you evil? You think I'm calling you evil by virtue of pointing out what I perceive as ignorance and bigotry in some statements made? I'm not the one that came up with Moloch.

All I'm saying, is that we are not able to comprehend divine justice much less divine love and/or hate due to being stuck in our bodies, and I've no problem considering these things in true search, but the point is disproving/mocking God, this is beneath a base laymans way of doing it. It would make more sense to talk about how solid or gasseous blue is as truth is not the object, but confirmation of desire, exactly as stated in the reverse makeing it worse than pointless, but even inflamitory.

Yes... I know. There are christians out there I respect. I respect them because they are accually not thick headed and respect the fact that pagans are not these hidious monsteres some in this thread would portray them. In the past? Yeah... but name me one religion that came out of the middle east, europe, and the americas that didn't have blood shed in some name or another.

But to sit there and say "Pagans are evil.. they used to burn babies!" while their own religion wasn't all a bed of dethorned roses is not just hypocritical, it's asnign. Espiacialy now when there are still christian groups that resort to violence and idiocy. Marching about a play in Oregon because it was about the poor guy who was beaten to death by people because he was homosexual.

Hmm... did pagans do that? No. These were christian men who beat some kid to death. And now we had a bunch of other christians protest rather boisterously to stop a play about his life. There was nothing but hate in them.

Those christians I have nothing but contempt towards.

I can't think of one TRUE pagan these days that have marched with hate in their hearts, killed someone because they don't fit into their views, and called to ban something because it might teach their children something "harmful" like so many thing Harry Potter or whatever the hell else out there that's simulare.

I say true becuase I have seen somepeople who get to involved with things like whitewolf games.. vampires... the like... and will do things like kill parents and dogs because they think it's right. That's not being a true pagan... that's idiocy.

Your not able too comprehend divine love or justice thats where your awareness is , your reliogn tells you that you aren't worthy of communication with the part of you that is divine and if by some chance you did hear that voice it'd be in tongues according to christianity, andits your religon that tells you you are too ignorant to understand and comprehend only the preacher at your church can My comments are based on waht you guys write its kool with me whatever you want to beleive, this is a grown up section ,I must say this everyday its not personal can you ever have a converstation without it becoming oh woe is me???Pagans just aren't having that experince there Gods are responding to them in ways they understand, this sounds like a Jeaulousy issue. Namste Sheri

psst... Celumnaz I wasn't talking to you. Infact, i've been quoteing that dragon cronical guy. He's the one I've been replying to. ;P

Celumnaz
It seems all you can do is bash other religions and non believers, but when people say something you don't agree with about your god you don't even try to understand their point of view or what they are saying, you just automatically assume they don't know what they are talking about or are trying to put characteristics on god that don't belong on him
Well this leads me to the question, what exactly are you bringing to the discussion on here because answering questions with rhetorical questions and just being rude in general do nothing but offend and anger other people

It’s obvious what you believe and it's obvious that you can't and will not accept any other ideas then what you already have so why exactly are you even on a discussion board that would have you do that?

You’re doing nothing but hindering the actual discussion....

Wow you guys, thanks for replying I still need to finishing reading all these good posts.
So if God loves everyone and everything, then...
Does he love that goodyear tire on that truck across the street?
-That nail inside that tire?
-The pixels on this screen?

I guess we can only comprehend so much untill God allows us to comprehend more.

Excellent post friend Namaste sheri

thanks... just thought it was time to say it... lol

I have yet to find a good definition of Pagan. Here is the one from my Webster's Unabridged Dictionary so I guess it is official.

Pagan
1. One of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion as the ancient Romans and Greeks. 2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. 3. an irreligious or hedonistic person.....
It kind of goes on and on same kind of thing.


According to this a Buddhist would be a Pagan. I don't think they would like that.

The thing is history is written by the victors. Who knows what really went on. The ancient world was a rough place. As far as sacrificing your kids I got one name on that one Abraham. Why was he so willing to kill his son? Must have been something that had been done before not outside his scope of reason. Then there is that whole Lamb of God thing. I don't think they called Jesus that because he was cute. He was a sacrifice. The whole religion is based on a human sacrifice. God could have stopped it anytime he wanted. Jesus could have stopped by just leaving town. He knew what was going down.
I know there are some modern religions that do animal sacrifice and the animal is distributed to the poor for food. In my faith we don't do animal sacrifice. Earth Goddesses don't like that kind of thing.
Dragon Cronical you want to give me a link. I'll look at it.

Oh by the way Dragon our wickerman for our Samhain celebration was stolen would you like to volunteer.


(Sorry SC I couldn't resist).

Oy... now now... he might think you're being serious and say that we really do do human sacrifices...

I suggest VERY strongly you read your Bible in-depth!

Genesis

1)"God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." He purposefully designed a system that ensures the suffering and death of all his creatures, parasite and host, predator and prey. 1:31

2)God likes Abel's dead animals better than Cain's fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved. 4:3-5

3)Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8

4)God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

5)God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4

Exodus

24)Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12

25)God threatens to kill the Pharaoh's firstborn son. 4:23

26)God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26

27)God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4

28)"And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD." Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17

Leviticus

72)God gives detailed instructions for performing ritualistic animal sacrifices. such bloody rituals must be important to God, judging from the number of times that he repeats their instructions. Indeed the entire first nine chapters of Leviticus can be summarized as follows: Get an animal, kill it, sprinkle the blood around, cut the dead animal into pieces, and burn it for a "sweet savor unto the Lord." Chapters 1 - 9

73)"Flay the burnt offering; cut it into pieces." 1:6

74)Burn the head, fat, and entrails for "a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:8-9

75)"Kill it and sprinkle blood round about." 1:11, 3:2, 3:8, 3:13

76)"Cut it into pieces and burn it for a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:12-13

Numbers

125)God shows his hospitality with the admonition: "The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." 1:51, 3:10, 3:38>

126)Two of Aaron's sons are killed by God for "offering strange fire before the Lord." 3:4

127)Don't touch or "go in to see when the holy things are covered." God kills people who touch or look at uncovered holy things. 4:15, 4:20

128)God tells the people to expel from camp "every leper, every one that hath an issue, and whoever is defiled by the dead." So by God's instructions, the sick are abandoned and left to suffer and die alone. 5:1-4

129)"And when the people complained, it displeased the Lord: and the Lord heard it." (He had his hearing aid on.) He then burned the complainers alive. That'll teach them. 11:1

I can provide MANY MANY more! All the way to Revelation

Revelation

829)"Come ... unto the supper of the great God." An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon the flesh of dead horses and human bodies, "both free and bond, both small and great." 19:17-18

830)The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest were killed with the sword of Jesus. "And all the fowls were filled with their flesh." 19:20-21

831)God will send fire from heaven to devour people. And the devil will be tormented "day and night for ever and ever." 20:9-10

832)Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15

833)All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8

You say Pagans are evil?
It is a sad and violent religion you follow Celumnaz





I think I will put that quote in my SIG!

Celumnaz:
I forgot to tell you there is more violence in the Bible than there is the Quran!

[quote name='Celumnaz' date='Oct 17 2005, 11:48 AM' post='891016']
I'm not claiming anyone on these forums are debaucheristic ritual murderers, unlike those that bring up the witch hunts and cruisades and try to pin Christians with that tag.
[/quote]
Just goes right over ya'lls heads and all ya do is More of it!

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:20 PM' post='891162']
why do you need to be commanded to not kill daily why do so many christains say I would kill and be a much worse person if it wasn't for religion , I'm responding to the christians posts, I wonder why you would be a part of such a moronic value system, now Its bash the Pagans i think the only hate is in you, People show us who they ar, and this is never more true in the religious persuasion, I have yet to see a Pagan bash another or attack because they disagree I see them saying where are yougetting your info, I have never seen a christian do that. namaste Sheri
[/quote]
More of it...

[quote name='bacca' date='Oct 17 2005, 02:05 PM' post='891224']
some church dogma that again is based on writings from men who wanted people to fear them so that the torture imposed on those convicted of witchcraft was no looked down upon...............
[/quote]
More of it...

[quote name='SilverCougar' date='Oct 17 2005, 03:37 PM' post='891370']
Aahhh but you see... Your dear bible holds stories of God demanding children sacrifices, daughters being sold to slavery, people being stoned... So before you cry about how us evil pagans are evil for "burning babies" take a good hard look at the past of your own faith. It's not any cleaner. You do remember the Inquisition, Witch hunts, thousands killed because they wouldn't convert to christianity in verious stages in history. Even here in the US... it's happened. How many Natives were killed off by "good Christians"?

So before you call us evil... learn some founded history.
[/quote]
More of it...

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 05:24 PM' post='891526']
Silver , just as a few decades ago they felt the wizard of Oz should be banned becasue there children might think there are good witches, That Harry Potter is something other than a delightfyl fantasy.It wasn't to long ago that a popular tool of divinitation was to open the bible and where ever the finger fell, imagination and symbolic interpretaion would find an answer, , Isn't it just like religon take the heat off of thier heinous behavior by making up stuff about others that little practice is now called politics modern day. Namsste sheri
[/quote]
More of it...

[quote name='SilverCougar' date='Oct 17 2005, 05:42 PM' post='891547']
while their own religion wasn't all a bed of dethorned roses is not just hypocritical, it's asnign. Espiacialy now when there are still christian groups that resort to violence and idiocy. Marching about a play in Oregon because it was about the poor guy who was beaten to death by people because he was homosexual.

Hmm... did pagans do that? No. These were christian men who beat some kid to death. And now we had a bunch of other christians protest rather boisterously to stop a play about his life. There was nothing but hate in them.

Those christians I have nothing but contempt towards.
[/quote]
More of it...

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 05:46 PM' post='891553']
Your not able too comprehend divine love or justice thats where your awareness is , your reliogn tells you that you aren't worthy of communication with the part of you that is divine and if by some chance you did hear that voice it'd be in tongues according to christianity, andits your religon that tells you you are too ignorant to understand and comprehend only the preacher at your church can My comments are based on waht you guys write its kool with me whatever you want to beleive, this is a grown up section ,I must say this everyday its not personal can you ever have a converstation without it becoming oh woe is me???Pagans just aren't having that experince there Gods are responding to them in ways they understand, this sounds like a Jeaulousy issue. Namste Sheri
[/quote]
More of it...

[quote name='Sheri berri' date='Oct 17 2005, 07:37 PM' post='891742']
Excellent post friend Namaste sheri
[/quote]
No it wasn't, Will address it later hopefully if I have time.

[quote name='zandore' date='Oct 18 2005, 09:40 AM' post='892256']
Well that's not how it's presented.
I suggest VERY strongly you read your Bible in-depth!

Genesis

1)"God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." He purposefully designed a system that ensures the suffering and death of all his creatures, parasite and host, predator and prey. 1:31

2)God likes Abel's dead animals better than Cain's fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved. 4:3-5

3)Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8

4)God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

5)God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4

Exodus

24)Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12

25)God threatens to kill the Pharaoh's firstborn son. 4:23

26)God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26

27)God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4

28)"And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD." Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17

Leviticus

72)God gives detailed instructions for performing ritualistic animal sacrifices. such bloody rituals must be important to God, judging from the number of times that he repeats their instructions. Indeed the entire first nine chapters of Leviticus can be summarized as follows: Get an animal, kill it, sprinkle the blood around, cut the dead animal into pieces, and burn it for a "sweet savor unto the Lord." Chapters 1 - 9

73)"Flay the burnt offering; cut it into pieces." 1:6

74)Burn the head, fat, and entrails for "a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:8-9

75)"Kill it and sprinkle blood round about." 1:11, 3:2, 3:8, 3:13

76)"Cut it into pieces and burn it for a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:12-13

Numbers

125)God shows his hospitality with the admonition: "The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." 1:51, 3:10, 3:38>

126)Two of Aaron's sons are killed by God for "offering strange fire before the Lord." 3:4

127)Don't touch or "go in to see when the holy things are covered." God kills people who touch or look at uncovered holy things. 4:15, 4:20

128)God tells the people to expel from camp "every leper, every one that hath an issue, and whoever is defiled by the dead." So by God's instructions, the sick are abandoned and left to suffer and die alone. 5:1-4

129)"And when the people complained, it displeased the Lord: and the Lord heard it." (He had his hearing aid on.) He then burned the complainers alive. That'll teach them. 11:1

I can provide MANY MANY more! All the way to Revelation

Revelation

829)"Come ... unto the supper of the great God." An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon the flesh of dead horses and human bodies, "both free and bond, both small and great." 19:17-18

830)The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest were killed with the sword of Jesus. "And all the fowls were filled with their flesh." 19:20-21

831)God will send fire from heaven to devour people. And the devil will be tormented "day and night for ever and ever." 20:9-10

832)Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15

833)All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8

You say Pagans are evil?
It is a sad and violent religion you follow Celumnaz

I think I will put that quote in my SIG!
[/quote]
More of it...

[quote name='zandore' date='Oct 18 2005, 09:50 AM' post='892269']
Celumnaz:
I forgot to tell you there is more violence in the Bible than there is the Quran!
[/quote]
And.... are we done yet?

Ya'll feel better? Lotls of vitrol there.

And just in case ya'll missed the point of this off-topic portion of the discussion:
[quote name='Celumnaz' date='Oct 17 2005, 11:48 AM' post='891016']
I'm not claiming anyone on these forums are debaucheristic ritual murderers, unlike those that bring up the witch hunts and cruisades and try to pin Christians with that tag.
[/quote]
All ya'll doing is showing the passion of your hate towards Christianity... Combining Nutcases with "religious" with "Christian" true and/or claimed. MOST of your points with a "given that" type statement are flawed from the first few words, telling me what is, isn't, and what isn't, is, refusing to see another perspective.

I can talk to pagans from a pagan perspective about pagan ideas all day, I can talk to atheists from an atheist perspective about atheist ideas all day, I can see the reverse is not true coming from you guys. You have no clue or desire to Try to see from a Christian perspective about Christian ideas. It's all about disproving according to your take on life, not at all trying to understand anothers, just a mockery.

ok... before I even read your post... FIX THE TAGS!! I can't tell your post from whoever you're quoting.

That and as I said.. I was *NEVER* talking to you. I had given up talking to you about this along time ago. I was talking to the guy who brought up the conversation of all pagans evil.

I did catch that little bit about saying it's wrong to bring up the crusaids and whatnot.. well if someone's going to bring up that we pagans use to "sacrifice" people or whatever, they need to take a long hard look at their own christian past before they can condemn us to "brimstone and fire" like he has.

You are not getting it.

Plus the fact that the killings in the name of Jesus are still going on in the Balkans, Africa, etc. You can say a religion has gotten past it's butchery, but then you have such a mentioned above and the questions becomes, "Oh, Really?" Just shows what the adherents or the organized religions can do in the name of their God!

I found it hard to read also! But what I did notice was a lot of "More of it..." comments from Celumnaz.
Seems like he can not think of anything to respond with (nothing original).