For a second I almost forgot what this topic was about...
So God loves and "hates" evil? Is that what you're trying to get at?

If God hates divorce he would rather see whole families in pain,and suffering? sometimes 2 people are just not meant to be together and it's best to get a divorce,imo.

you dont understand me...
if you where pregnant, ( for guys you knew your wife/girlfriend was )
and you knew the he/she would be a drugster , or gangter, or etc.
would you abort him? or still love him, like god loves his creations no matter if they are good or evil...

Is that so, given that God has destroyed evil people? It takes a lot of love to destroy...

ok thats more complicated, he punished them... in a major way...

But isn't that similar to abortion?
Despite his love for people, he did destroyed their lives. Took them out of existence. Just like abortion takes one out of existence. But that's another topic.

That's all still putting our limited experience and condition on the unlimited. It can't be done until we're free of our physical shells.

What can be described as an act of love on one leve, can be described as an act of hate on another, and yet, on a still different level it's an act of love, and on another a simple non love/hate act of justice...

Trying to place our experience from a limited condition on the unlimited is an excorsise in futility.

Faith.

if there was no evil, everything would be good, even the devil would be good, so we need evil to know what is good... try get your head around that

There are two sides to every coin.
With no evil there can not be any good.
With no good there can not be any evil.





EDIT: Welcome LobsterMan to the UM forum.

God does love everybody. But like someone already mentioned evil was there before they partook of the Tree and they then knew of it. They then embraced evil. But God still loves us no matter what we do. He just wants us to turn to him in the long run.

I am sure I can find Bible verses that say different.

Love thy neighbor as you do yourself. That applys to everyone.

I do not know what to say?

I just know that he loves you me and others. But he may not understand why someone may hate him and do wrong.

Isn't God all knowing? If he does not understand something then he can not be all knowing.

WEll maybe he knows why they do not want to live for him but he is saddened. But didn't man write the Bible? The man wrote what God told them too. But they may have wrote it more harsh then the way we speak today. Maybe it was a time difference? And sometimes hate could mean dislike their ways. Hate is a mean word.

Then why do you say "God loves you"?

I know God loves me because of the way he prophcies thru the Brethen at my church. I have heard God talk thru men and myself and he says he loves me. He provides for me as well as other Christians. That is why I say God loves me.

But this is from the same bible that you said this about:

The verses were all from the Christian Bible.


EDIT: Do you want more Bible verses about hate

Yes Zandore I did write that. But what are youn trying to say God does not love me? I do not think you know whether he does or does not. Because what I have is a personal relationship. I know he loves me. Why would you try to implie he does not Zandore this hurts my feelings.


You can post the hate scriptures if you wish but I do not know why they would sway my opinion of God. A God with reasons and judgement. Ac God who does love his people.

What I am trying to say is.....He is not the "all loving God" people think and say he is.

But I know what your saying. I tell you all the time he is sovereign, powerful, judgemental, and loving. I know this. But I see what you are trying to show.

This is under the assumption that you understand the far reaching implications of the love/hate.

In a temporal sense for our limited state of humanity it is true that it is hate. But for the divine? We cannot comprehend the divine and it may very well be love in the grandest sense these passages of "hate".

Or, it may be neither and a simple expression of justice translated for our limited understanding of "right and wrong".

The point is, we Can't understand it. Trying to is an exercise in futility. Arguing against these little prods and jabs is a fools errand. There is no understanding from those who have their hearts heardened against God.

Just frustration, fear, confusion and hate with a perverse desire to see the faithful in the same state. Misery loves company.

Don't let them make you feel bad 101.

Celumnaz,
you just called yourself a fool.

Celumnaz, That made perfect sense to me.

I know. Nobody's perfect.

Why do people now alot accuse god for evil and call out "WHY GOD WHY?" when something bad happends in the world? Why cant they think that there is evil and people should accuse god for EVERYTHING BAD. I mean come on...the devil the bad...and im not going to look if someone replies to my post...i mostly dont do that

and I say there is no understanding from the faithful who will blindly follow a religion,that is becomeing dated and slowly going the way of the dodo.

and Fear, is it not religion that uses fear to pursue it's followers ie eternal damnation and all that crap.

Misery, I must say that religion has caused more suffering and misery than any none believer,could possible do.

I think it's time religion take a back seat to forward thinking, you would see a much more loving world if that were the case. IMO

It's all a queation of balabce.
Everything in excistence has a counterpart, Black has white, up has down, man has woman, good has evil.
There needs to be an counterpart to keep everything in balance.
If there isn't there will be chaos.
So good needs evil as evil needs good.

Well since you're not going to see this anyway...It can make people feel better to blame something that they have temporarily lost faith in as opposed to something they never had faith in. It's psychological.

Yeah he is. To me basically all messages of hate in the Bible are most likely to be that of man. Mainly for control and fear purposes- God loves all...but even the strongest love has a limit- where does he draw the line? Who is to say...

[quote]and im not going to look if someone replies to my post...i mostly dont do that/quote]
*Blazex runs from the room, holding his hands over his ears and yelling "LA LA LA LA LA" as loudly as possible to drown out that which he can't bear to face, another's opinion!*

Ramster, how can you know that the parts of hate are not of God? I mean maybe he just had reasons. Andd hate is just a bad translation or something. That is what I think.

has alot to do with the perspecive of the object of the "hate" too. It's the limited condition that makes it difficult and directs us to faith.

Exactly. It is very hard to say God did this because . Because we do not know.

Why would anyone want to put faith into something that isn't into visibitliy, has things about themselves that it can only be explained in tongues??? I would be highly suspect to a person of this sort I might go as far as to think they are of a criminal element???I don't think I'd be inviting em in and assuming their beliefs and defending them but thats just me.
Namaste Sheri

god is beyond petty human consepts like good and evil.

To have a "heart hardened against God" you have to believe in him....I don't!


No I just want all of the truth to be told.

A half truth is still a lie

Even when the Bible is supposed to be quoting God's own words?

Before this subject can be intelligently discussed one should dispense with with a great mythology on which so much of the "Evil" of God is based. This is the "Lucifer Mythos" which seems curiously absent in Judaism, and no wonder, for the character "Lucifier" never existed! Lucifer was "born" through a mistranslation of Hebrew scriptures by early Christains, dealing with a Babylonian king with no connection to "Fallen Angels". CONCLUSION: To say god willfully created the fallen Angel Lucifer, who would be responsible for "Evil" is false, BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS LUCIFER!

Next we address the "Satan Mythos". Nowhere in the Old Testament does it state Satan deceived Eve in the Garden of Eden. In fact, in complete contradiction to this, Satan is still regarded as one of the Sons of God in the book of Job, and still a trusted servant of the Almighty. And it is these scriptures of the Old Testament, which Jesus states in his ministry is the true work of God!

Satan doesn't become an Evil entity until the Zorastrian inspired dualistic cult of "Christianity" required an "evil entity" to oppose god in a never-ending struggle of good against evil just as Ahura Mazda opposed the Evil dragon Ahriman in this religion which much of Christanity was based. CONCLUSION: Satan was never created by God as an Evil entity, in fact, long after the Garden of Eden, Satan is still loyally performing tasks for God. The ficticious "Evil Satan" is simply a Christian invention to create a paganistic, dualistic, religion compatible with the other mainstream pagan religions Christianity would have to compete with to recruit members.

So you see, the very subject of this thread is ficticious. The only true practioners of a montheism in the world, did not require a dualistic religion with evil supernatural dieties. This was the invention of the pagans who could not understand a concept which remains to this day unique among the original, so called "chosen people". Every other religion in the world believes they need a balance of good and evil spiritual entities, and refuse to accept the obvious fact that humans themselves are responsible for the evil in the world. Pagans cannot comprehend or accept this notion, including the "pagans" who call themselves "Christians" but do not believe in the Jewish religion Jesus had endorsed, and invented an abomination instead.

So the answer is no, God does not love evil. Instead he established a set of 10 simple commandments, which if followed by everyone, would have made the concept of "Evil" nonexistent. But he did know only few humans would accept these concepts, and he created terrible creatures (like the seraphim-dragon Satan), to punish the evil humans. But this does not make his creatures of punishment, or himself, evil. Every now and then, wicked, evil pagans need a good "fire and brimstoning".

The only ones that need commandements are the religious the only ones who need to be told to do good are the religious, no one is better at showing what religon is about then the religious, interseting the only ones that judge or condemn or discriminate or hate are the religious, I can see that you emulate your diety very nicely vengeful, bitter mean bigotted, condemening justified in verbal abuse. The Pagans we have around here are the finest examples of what the new spirituality looks like. Namaste sheri

*is still waiting for a good fire and brimstoning*

you get mixed up, God loves everybody, but HATES sin and evil.. he don't love everything.

I think you might be a bit mixed up, God is the kingpin of an invented mythology, legend,
fairy tale, really there is no god. shh !!!!! Namaste Sheri

Now were that true, then you'd think God; being the supreme power of the Universe would have the inclinationand ability to wipe out evil in every form it takes..
This doesn't happen, as we can see on a daily basis, just by watching TV or actually walking out the door..
The fact is; "Evil" is what keeps God in business..
Without it to stand diametrically opposed to him, who would ever judge him "Good" and choose to worship him?
Then there's also this..
If God is truly all-knowing, he'd know exactly what many humans have already figured out for themselves..There's no true "Evil" at all..
There's no person so far gone that they have no good in them, and there's nobody so holy that they've never done evil themselves..
If God sees all possibilities he couldn't bring himself to truly hate anyone or anything; as he would see where it might possibly lead in the future, given the chance

Well Sherri, during the time the Hebrews were practicing the 10 commandments, pagans in the "promised land" they would gratefully conquer were sacrificing their children by the thousands to their pagan gods. Yes its true, archaeology confirms it.

I would agree that modern pagans generally do not do these things anymore. I'm even sure some of the baby-burning phoenicians were "nice" people too, if you looked beyond their religious beliefs.

And you really shouldn't differentiate pagans from christians so much, for most christian sects are filled with far more pagan doctrine than they are Jewish. Many Christians acknowledge mother goddesses (Mary), fertility celebrations (Easter), dualisim (satan), etc. etc. They are basically "pagans" that have added Jesus to their mostly pagan beliefs.

Most are certainly not practicing the relgion Jesus practiced.

huh? I thought that Lucifer is mentioned in the BIble? No?

Look at Genisis and the serpent. Etc.

How can you say these things?

Ah Yes the so called free will!
Believe in me or else I will punish you!
This is supposed to be from a "loving God"? What color is the sky in your world?

*A big tired sounding sigh*
A typical Christian comment.
Then you wonder why all of us wicked evil Pagans, Atheists, Wiccans, Non-Believers (The list is very long so I will stop here) as you put it "attack Christians". Did you ever stop to think that it might be a defense reaction from us?

That is just a few of the traits he shares.


Not to mention they are more tolerant of others beliefs

Just out of curiosity here but where exactly are you getting this information? and how is proving that pagans were killing their children? I think most of us know of religious practices that sacrificed people to sun gods etc. but those are known because of more then just archaeology........so where are you getting your info?