Its amazing we all still debate this. I think the popular mechanics article did a great job of debuking the whole thing. I really think that it does not matter what proof is shown. The conspiracy people will always believe that our evil government is the cause. It is pretty sad to believe your own government would do such a thing. Bush is not the best president, but he is not the devil.

No wonder you think the way you do. You are not even American! I can understand why you are not as willing to really search for the facts. You really don't even care.

And it's not just anti-bush. Bush just happens to be president, and a puppet. This is bigger then that.

This is an American event, but it has consequence that go across the world.

What do you think of big brother, do you love him? Because he loves the control he has over you, and your people. It's for your own good, didn't you know that? You can't be trusted in your own survival, so they have to take away your freedoms in order to garuntee, your continued existance, into the next generations. Big brother is always correct, and questioning him is treason. He wouldn't lie to you would he? Power never corrupts, and absolute power will make you honest as can be.

Is this the best you can do. Presenting evidence that was written by the cousin of homeland security. Family sticks together, don't you know that. It's called nepotism.

My side is winning. More and more people wake up everyday. Pretty soon you will be the minority. You may still think you are right, but that's your decision.

this coming from the same person who made these posts on this forum


I'm a criminal. IN fact just last night, my friend and I conspired to steal some money from his ex-girlfrinds car. That's right, it was a real conspiracy! I was on the look out, while he broke into her car, and stole over $100. He even stole her CD's to make it look like a true burglery so she wouldn't blame him or me. People at the top are evil and greedy. They wouldn't be in power if they weren't ruthless.

I don't use LSD, but have used it twice before, back when I was in college. I've only done it twice, and not since then. No I don't use drugs, besides the ones prescribed to me from my doctor for acid reflux. It would have been explained but the mods censored it out. If you want to learn what tripping on acid is like you can PM me. I'm not allowed to talk about it on the forum, because kids are on here.

Acid was the coolest thing I have ever experienced to this day. I seriously recommend everyone trying it once. It might freak you out but it is really cool.

Whats your point? You think I have no crediblity, then talk to the government whistle blowers, who have more crediblity and anyone on this forum combined, especially you, and your women. Oh thats right, once a whistleblower goes agaisnt Bush the coke head, they are no longer credible. You put your faith in the wrong person.

You forgot the one where he said he hates life.

post removed

You just wished my wife and children get taken out. Your sick. Get help.

Scoobysnack........please read the pm I'm sending you VERY carefully.

You should hjave saved it I said I watch all news FOX included and that THE TRUTH laid somewhere in the middle.

lol, didn't someone bring that up in the last thread?

hey , since the message is frightening and we don't wanna listen to it, let's just discredit the messanger, rather than scrutinize the message.

the real conspiracy theory here is, that 19 islamic terrorists ; hell-bent on striking an unforgettable blow to the american infidels, hijacked 4 airplanes, and crashed 2 of them into the WTC and one into the pentagon

also that little demonstration of the pentagon wreckage is laughable to be nice about it.

you tryin to tell me that a 757 punched a nice 8ft hole through 5 layers of reinforced concrete, lol. also plane crashes f*** UP THE GROUND

really you guys need to wake up, and investigate the FACTS

oh yeah did you know some of those suicidal hijackers are still alive? http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html

interesting

now was this the terrorists that created this blast? or is it just some camera glitch?





wow, you better becareful. that's the exact philosophical world view that is prevelant in these goons. why do you think the IMF withholds money unless the country sterilizes a significant portion of their women. listen you better be careful thinking like that, it's dangerous, this is the basic beleif hitler had with his eugenics program.. certain undesirables shouldn't be allowed to "breed". that kind of ideology will get you in trouble

Investigation did occur and and posted the theorist chose to ignore like anything brought up as evidence it written off by theorist as part of the conspiracy. No attack was made the information given was posted by the person himself freely. this was information he wanted UM aware of it is credible to posts as it tends to discredit the opinions and theorius of the posters and therefore relevant to arguement.

Just stop the senseless flaming. Few and far between are those who will change their minds just because someone asserts that they should. The debate can continue on ad infinitum and only those who are open and receptive to change will do so. You can't force them.

I still believe TWA 800 was not an accident. I still believe Flight 93 was shot down. I still believe there was another person aboard the Nellie in Conrad's Heart of Darkness.

So, how does it happen? Why do we ‘buy the myths?’ Why are we often not entirely dissuaded by evidence pointing to the contrary? Because the evidence pointing to the contrary is not entirely dissuasive. We simply do not trust the evidence.

PM consulted more than 300 experts and organizations in its investigation into 9/11 conspiracy theories. Ill take their word over a bunch of Bush hateing pseudo scientists every day of the week.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/de...html?page=9&c=y

the PM article is nothing more than the opinion of benjamin chertoff the cousin of the dept of homeland security michael certoff--read it carefully they consulted others yet drew their own conclusions--why do you think you cant quote from it? because there are no quotes worthy of recognition just a bunch inuendos and psuedo science based on a paper hypothesis'--thats all the govt's version can and will ever be--the real evidence is the video of the collapses and the recorded eye witness testimony of the firefighters and wtc employees as well as the mountains of indirect or circumstantial evidence that could,can and hopefully will be used in a court of law someday!

And that is nothing more than the opinion of sunofone.

Oh, as for your 'unchallenged' evidence, didn't I debunk all that in a thread a couple months back?

Now for a little bit of truth of my own. If I piss anyone off, tough sh**. I don't care. After seeing a certain deleted post on this thread, I am not holding back any more.

This is the kind of tactic that the conspiracy theorists use. I have seen all of this crap time and again and it is all the same. Take this crap about sunofone's building collapses. He posted this some time ago, and it got the sh** torn out of it. So he drops it and only to bring it up months later, when he assumes everyone has forgotten about it. I haven't.

Also, whenever they run out of material, they resort to personal attacks and name calling. Certain debunkers are guilty of this too, but the CTs are the worst. Whenever their thin hypothesis are blown away, they basically start insulting everyone's intelligence and getting generally belligerent. I thought this was supposed to be intelligent conversation.

Keep repeating the same lies and you eventually come to believe them. Look back through these threads. At their core, every 9/11 thread on this and every other forum are identical, spewing forth the same debunked bullshit, over and over and over again. It is tiring, it is sickening, and I am done with it.

I will leave you conspiracy theorist vultures to pick the bones of the dead clean for your own amusement. I am washing my hands of all this 9/11 sh** and going home.

Goodbye.

there are no quotes worthy of recognition just a bunch inuendos

which is what us "realist" have been saying about your posts. Although I dont recall such a overwhelming agreement (300 or more) in your posts. This is EXACTLY what was said when post was first made that because it didnt follow your "theory" it wasnt worthy of looking at. We "realist" have said same of your (cough) sources and the lack of REAL evidence they supply. The PM post states FACTS with evidence and offers NO THEORY

Here here. You speak the truth and I know the post your talking about.

I have to agree with you here!..I feel like alot of what these's people say is only based on the fact they dislike Bush.. I have read alot of the stuff they have posted and it is a bunch of BS if you ask me...It's ok to dislike him thats there right, But to keep disrepecting the dead is just plan wrong.. I hope they can understand that... It's a shame some of the lie's they post... Or maybe the real shame lies in the fact they might believe some of this stuff...... Ok.. I am gone again..this thread up-set's me to much to play nice in it.....

This thread is full of more crap than a New York City trash barge.



No, the big difference is that the people supporting the official theory are published in peer-reviewed academic journals and industry publications, while your ... ahem ... "experts" are usually published on Joe Blow's Conspiracy Web Page.



That's because they have better things to do than dealing with this crap.

I have little doubt that people heard loud noises and explosions of some kind, I just don’t think that they were bombs. A burning, half-million ton building probably makes a lot of noise when it starts to come down.



It has nothing to do with whether it looks like a demolition. Progressive collapse is usually defined as a collapse of all/a large part of a structure caused by a failure in a relatively small part of it. The collapse of the WTC buildings fits that definition.



The photos are of buildings with different construction than WTC1/2/7 and subjected to different loads.



You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.



See below.



“Mentally deficient,” huh? Let’s look at some of these fools who believe building 7 collapsed due to the fire.

They include Ian Burgess, a structural engineer at Sheffield University, who has been developing numerical models to predict the behavior of steel in fire since the 1980’s. In the article Fire Resistance of Framed Buildings, published in the Volume 37, Number 5, September 2002 edition of Physics Journal, this obviously unqualified individual wrote the following about WTC7:

“The collapse of this building seven hours after that of WTC 1 seems to have been due to complex causes and still needs considerable forensic engineering work. However, it seems significant that the building was constructed over a major existing electricity supply sub-station using massive long-span trusses known as “transfer trusses” to span over and around the existing building between the 5th and 7th floor levels."

He then describes photographs of the building during its collapse. Continuing:

"It seems likely that the transfer structures failed in fire, allowing the supported columns to fail, pulling the rest of the building structure inwards.”

Clearly he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Another dimwit who thinks that the fire caused the collapse of the entire building is W. Gene Corely, Ph.D., P.E.(professional engineer.) On page 72 of the May 2004 issue of Journal of Performance of Constructed Facilities, published by the American Society of Civil Engineers, he writes about WTC7:

“If the collapse began at these transfer trusses, it would explain why the building imploded, producing a limited debris field as the exterior walls were pulled downward. The collapse then may have spread to the west side. At that point, the building would likely have had extensive interior structural failures that led to its overall collapse.”

Arrayed against these blind fools are such titans of the academic community as muddyfrog, scoobysnack, turbonium, and of course suneofone, whose towering intellect gives him the almost superhuman ability to cut and paste vast tracts of text for days on end, often the same tracts in the same thread. Surely the NWO’s days are numbered.

I should add that both these articles I quoted deal primarily with the collapse of the twin towers, not building 7. The firm known as Arup along with Edinburgh University are cooperating to study the performance of building 7. As of right now their findings are confidential and not published. NIST’s full report on the building is not yet released either, and information about this building is somewhat hard to find, providing fertile ground for woo-woo fantasies.



As a matter of fact people in the fire protection industry have learned from the Windsor fire, and it doesn’t support your BS theory at all.

First of all, the Windsor tower had a concrete core. Concrete can resist fire better than bare steel, though it isn’t invulnerable(at very high temperatures it is subject to explosive spalling.) Secondly, you write that the Windsor tower didn’t suffer a collapse when in fact it did. It suffered a partial collapse of the perimeter frame and floor system above the 17th floor. That would be a steel perimeter frame, by the way.

Here’s the hotel before the fire:



Here’s the building after:





That cylindrical structure on the left is a special escape stairwell. As you can see, parts of the upper building collapsed. So what’s so special about the 17th floor? At the time of the fire the Windsor building was undergoing renovation, including the application of fireproofing material that had so far not progressed above floor 17. Some unprotected perimeter columns below the 17th floor also suffered buckling. The unprotected steel columns above 17 collapsed, along with the floor system.

The collapses occurred in steel frames with unprotected beams/columns. No collapses occurred where columns were protected, and the concrete core didn't collapse.

So here’s what we’ve learned from 9-11, Windsor and other major building fires:

Steel is vulnerable to fire. Concrete is often less vulnerable. Unique construction and the presence of large amounts of diesel fuel probably account for the failure of WTC7. Concrete core columns and robust fire protection applied to the steel supports probably account for the survival of the Windsor building.

So, in conclusion: structural engineering and fire engineering are evolving disciplines. We didn’t know everything there is to know about how buildings behave in fire on 9-11-2001, and we don’t know it all today, either. Events like these help us learn more. Most of us, anyway.




Thou shalt not use the name of Fire Engineering Magazine in vain.

Bill Manning’s article, which I read long before you misused it here, was quite rightly concerned that there would not be enough steel left over for investigation. He’s talking about the preliminary FEMA/ASCE investigation. As it turns out, the later NIST investigators found plenty of steel to test. They’ve even got a gallery of it on their web page.

Not only that, but Mr. Manning states in the very article you posted that he believes the fire brought down the world trade center towers.

And not only that, but the technical editor of this magazine went on national television and specifically said there was no evidence for this conspiracy theory.





You don’t have to be John Glenn to hit the upper floors of the biggest building in New York with a 767 on a bright, clear day.

Not only did some of the hijackers have engineering training, but Usama bin Laden(whose family’s fortune was made in the construction business) spent years building fortifications in Afghanistan and working with explosives. Do you think maybe they know a thing or two about engineering?


ETA: The title of the Corley article I cited above is Lessons Learned on Improving Resistance of Buildings to Terrorist Attacks.

Well if the plane had “wasted” its fuel that would be one thing, but its fuel exploded inside and just outside the building in a massive fireball, igniting a multi-floor fire. You must have missed that.

The buildings were designed with the impact of a 707, a slightly smaller plane, in mind, but not the resulting fire. And since such collisions are rare and there’s not a lot of information about how structures will react under such extreme events, it’s rather difficult to design against them.




That Scientific American[i] article was written less than a month after the attacks. More recent assessments have downgraded the estimated temperature of the fire.

Aluminum melts at 660 C. That’s within the range of the revised temperature estimates. And bear in mind that at 593 degrees C steel retains only about half of the strength and stiffness that it has in ambient conditions.

QUOTE

hmm.. so all of the buildings weight was at the very top?

WTF are you talking about? Nobody said that.

QUOTE

and all the 120 odd floors below don't really exist? ie.

Nobody said that, either.

QUOTE

The stuff at the bottom has zero potential energy. and up from there. Who are these people trying to kid? Average height ahem... as in half the energy they are saying... Not all potential is kenetic either; You have friction and of course these people are using "pancake theory" so resistence of lower floors...

Now saying half the height is assuming something. It is assuming that the weight is equally distributed from floor 1 to floor 126. As some of you may know the lower floors have thicker, heavier, supports than those at the top. Just like they say:

Do you seriously think that a MIT civil engineering professor doesn’t know that the support members in the lower portion of a building are thicker than members at higher stories?

The bottom line is that there was enough potential energy in the floors above the impacted areas in both towers to initiate an unstoppable collapse.

QUOTE

dont forget that the towers had already been bombed in 93 by the fbi and were practically condemned due to the structural comprimises and the asbestos-

Oh, so now the towers were condemned by structural compromises. I thought you believed that they were too strong to have been brought down by fire and impact of jet airliners. But hey, that was yesterday.

QUOTE

Theologian Says Controlled Demolition
is Now a Fact, Not a Theory

Oh, a [i]theologian said that? Do you get your medical advice from a witch doctor, too?

Typical “expert.” But hey, bring on more “experts” like engineer … oops, I mean architect … oops, wrong again! I mean economist Morgan Reynolds who think they’re suddenly qualified to dissect the collapse of the twin towers from an engineering perspective.




This “free fall” spiel is a total load of crap unsupported by anyone in the civil/structural engineering community and the person responsible for initiating it has recanted his statements. The only thing in free-fall here is your credibility.



Since you’re so big on logical fallacies, I’m sure you’re familiar with argumentum ad Populum.

Ten thousand people saying the moon is made of green cheese doesn’t make it true. If all those people polled thought that Saddam Hussein had a connection to Usama bin Laden you’d blow them off in a heartbeat.

There was a conspiracy!

The Arabs snuck operatives on planes, and crashed them in the Trade Center Buildings and the Pentagon, because they hate America, and think their way of life is better.


Oh wait, that's the truth, therefore it is un-interesting. My apologies!

One reason why many believe there was (and still is) a conspiracy by our (US) government is because our government has a well-documented history of lies and manipulations.

Another reason is that it's easier to believe that in a conspiracy than it is to believe that there was a complete failure by so many involved (ATC, FAA, UA, AA, FBI, NORAD, airport security, CIA, NSA, et al...) whom we trust to do the best at what they're trained to do.

And another reason is that many find it problematic to reconcile the changes in the "official story" that occurred beginning in the afternoon of 9/11/01 and continuing (evolving as new and better information accumulated) to the 9/11 Commission Hearings--and it still continues to evolve.

Even members of the government (one, in particular, is the senator from Minnesota) have questioned the evidence and timeline of events.

(This is not to say there is/was a conspiracy, just that it is understandable why so many believe in the possibility.)

Like I've stated in previous posts, no one is going to change anyone else's mind regardless of whatever is presented as fact. Conspiracy, like religion, is about belief.

Redneck, they were talking about a theory in which molten aluminum could have caused the metal joints to oxidize or something, I can't remember. They said that molten aluminum is at 1800 degrees celcius.
"that was a month after 9/11 ... The experts now have changed their minds" So after one month they got new data? New data from the metal that was shipped out? New data from what? OR are they just switching their paper guesses?

It is only a mater of time till those experts change their minds again.

I didn't say they did say that. I said their equation is off and I'm saying that they had to do it on purpose, as it is basic physics.

same as above

Im saying they did know that, but didn't use that info in their equation to find potential energy.

mabey mabey not. If I knew how much *each* upper floor weighed and how much weight they could *each* hold and how much force they could withstand then yes I could figure out the potential energy of that segment that fell into the lower floors ,and then figure out if it would create an unstopable collapse.

You're not using your head though. Look at their equation and you will see they didn't calculate potential energy corectly. They used the "simple" equation which only works for balls and other objects of uniform weight distribution and small size. When you're talking about a building the whole building is not at 1350 feet. The bottom is at 0, the middle is at 675 and the top is at 1350. In their equation the math showed that they put the entire building's mass at 1350. Most of the buildings weight (lower levels have thicker supports) is under 675. So they should not have used 1350 in their equation.

-They used 500,000 tones (the entire buildings weight)
-They used 1350 feet (the entire buildings height)
The entire buildings weight or mass (Weight is just mass x accerleration) is not at 1350!
-They used 9.80 which is right. Here in chapel hill it's 9.81. as tall as that building is and depending on NY's height above sea level it could actually be 9.79 meters per second squared.

I don't know why they used this flawed math. I know for sure they knew they did.

On a side note: They were calculating total potential energy of the entire structure. If you wanted to find the potential energy of the part that "broke off" and fell into the rest you would have to know it's mass alone plus it's height and the height of what it crashed into some floors lower. Once I knew that I could give you it's potential energy and then I would need what I said above and I could tell if it was possible.

If I found that could have caused the collapse then I would switch sides. I do not see that happening.

-MuddyFrog

typical --if this statement were true you could easily link to it--but of cousre there will be no link as your idea of debunking is posting the exact phrase from above--

what? oh please this is ridiculous non-sense--not the resulting fire?!?!?? HUH? let me clarify this for you redneck--there is a reason for it! first its important to note that the 707 has a "larger"fuel capacity as well as having a higher top speed rendering its potential energy greater than that of a 747--secondly the reason they did not figure the resulting fire into the equation is because it is completely UNNECESSARY --NO steel framed skyscraper in history has ever collapsed as a result of fire--not because fires have never happened but because it defies physics--no amount of hydrocarbon based fire is enough to comprimise the integrity of steel PERIOD!! please comb through your engineers vast amount of data concerning fires and steel structures and list one event where fire CAUSED the collapse of a steel framed structure --please honor us with the data --although im not holding my breath

Umm you must have missed the part where I was mocking your experts.

"Hey guys."
"what?"
"this building was designed to be bomb safe."
"Oh, so we're fine."
"well, we're safe from the bomb, but not the resulting explosion."
"Then what is the point?"
"I guess there isn't one.. unless of course the bomb is an empty shell"
"what's the chance of that?"
"0"

^^ an example to give you the idea.

-MuddyFrog

Whats the point,sense your not reading any of the information,and even if you do,your obviously not capable of understanding any of the info posted,the PM report explaines all the conspiracy theorys as total nonsense.
Who in their right mind takes the pseudo version over the real experts?
You would rather die,than edmit to yourself that you have been wrong all this time.

Silly question: if you're going to bring the Twin Towers down with invisible explosives, why bother crashing a plane into them in the first case? Why involve hundreds more people in your conspiracy? Any one of whom might one day reveal the truth? Why not just set off the explosives and frame Bin Laden for the bombs? Much simpler, much less to go wrong, and the same end result.

Exactly and the theorist have been unable or unwilling to answer here are some questions they dont answer


Why planes why not just blow it up and blame OBL?

Why implode? Why not just blow it up? Its easier and since no one cared how many died why not less effort is involved.

Why blame OBL if goal was Iraq why not from Hussien?

If it wasnt a plane that hit Pentagon why say it was plane? Why not either plant plane parts or use other explanation?

These are just logical questions anyone could ask. This doesnt include the detailed post of HUNDREDS that debunks entire theory in PM. Not a few radicals who use assumption for evidence

fbi tried and got caught

the initial goal was not ubl or sh it was the natural gas pipeline completed as a result of the invasion--nothing has been debunked --i have never seen a shred of evidence come from the bush administration--they cant even prosecute zarqawi(or whatever his name is)--paper dragon hypotheticals and inuendos is all the official story can rely upon--in case you didnt know there is some one waiting to dole out a million dollars to the first engineer to submit a comprehensive analysis of the physics involved with the collapse FROM FIRE--again nothing has ever been debunked--fema put out the most comprehensive report available as they were actually there a day in advance(check for yourself )--fema had access to bldg 7 before it collapsed and reported "relatively light damage" yet nist comes along with access to only a pile of rubble and they report "new" damage and phantom fires--unfortunately common sense is obviously NOT one of americas strong points right now

More fantasy from our favorite woo woo.

All the CT and pseudo scientists are doing the same thing as Sunofone ,It goes like this...Dig out one reference that supports your position. Complain when someone presents a reference that refutes yours. Say that this means they can't think for themselves and your reference proves it.
Ignore all queries on why you hold this hypocritical position.

When debating, remember that the best technique to "proving" your hypothesis is to start with a supposition, and when you get to the third point, refer to the supposition as a "fact". This may cause just enough initial confusion to let you escape with a momentary triumph.

Ok, this is to all of the people who still believe 9/11 was the work of 19 Arabic Hijackers and an operation entirely masterminded by Osama Bin Laden, mainly because he hates our freedom’s and disagrees with American Liberalism. Despite all of their hard work, the United States Government simply could not see the attack coming.

When one considers all of the hardcore facts, there is no way this excuse holds even a grain of truth in it. The official story is impossible and simply does not stand up to scrutiny. Even more laughable is the excuse given by government officials that it was simply a "failure of intelligence" and the attack could not be averted. Politicians should not even form their mouths to even use an incompetence excuse. Warnings were received by the US by at least 18 other countries, and agents in the CIA, and the FBI were warned. The FAA got warnings too. In fact,

Prior Knowledge:

CIA had high-jacker details
Taliban warned the US of huge attack
FBI warned of plot to high-jack planes in 1995
FBI warned of Suspicious flight student last yearCIA ignorned warnings of Al-Queda
US knew of Suicide highjack threat in 1995
The airlift of evil
Threat of US attacks passed Taliban weeks before the attacks
US clamps secrecy on attacks before 911


It seems that there were so many warnings, that


"The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defence of incompetence." Micheal Meacher, Tony Blairs former environmental advisor until 2003. London Guardian

In addition to these Government officials and other people received individuals warnings as well. Mayor Willie Brown of San Francisco was warned a full eight hours before the attack not to fly on 911, author Salmon Rushdie was publicly banned from flying before 911, and John Ashcroft former Attorney General stopped flying commercially six months before 911. Even some people working inside of the towers got instant messages, telling them to evacuate the WTC.

We must ask ourselves, where did all this prior knowledge come from, and why was it all ignored? Is it possible for that this much information of this magnitude of importance to get tangled up in a beaurecratic web of telephone lines? The answer is NO, people in side of the Trade Towers got INSTANT MESSAGES telling them the buildings were going to be destroyed two hours before it happened. You’re going to tell me someone can get an INSTANT MESSAGE to someone inside the World Trade Center two hours before the attack, but no one can get the message to the President of the United States? Impossible, this is the equivalent to saying people who work in the WTC has access to better intelligence than the president does. Someone calls up calls Mayor Willie Brown eight hours before the attack, and tells him not to fly, BUT THEY CAN'T CONTACT THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLERS AND WARN THEM AHEAD OF TIME?!??!

Sources:

Odigo Says Workers Were Warned of the Attack
San Francisco Chronicle - Mayor Willie Brown got Low-Key Warning about Air Travel
The Truth Seeker-Condi Lisa Rice Warned Willie Brown and Told him not to fly on 911
CBS News - Ashcroft Flying High


In addition there are over 600 smoking gun holes and unanswered questions in the official story of 911; I'm only going to scratch the surface, w/ some of the main ones.

First thing is the NORAD stand down order.

"The first hijacking was suspected at not later than 8.20am, and the last hijacked aircraft crashed in Pennsylvania at 10.06 am. Not a single fighter plane was scrambled to investigate from the US Andrews air force base, just 10 miles from Washington DC, until after the third plane had hit the Pentagon at 9.38 am. Why not? There were standard FAA intercept procedures for hijacked aircraft before 9/11. Between September 2000 and June 2001 the US military launched fighter aircraft on 67 occasions to chase suspicious aircraft" (AP, August 13 2002)
guardian, once again

NORAD completely stood down, this is a clear violation of FAA flight regulations, and NORAD could have probably stopped the attack, at least partially. The morning of 911 NORAD was training in a war game of flying hijacked aircrafts into buildings ON the Morning of 911. On the Morning of 911??!?! Yep, the drill stopped just 50 minutes before the Hi-Jacking began. No wonder there was no Military Response, NORAD was told that the planes being Hijacked were just part of a drill. That's why they stood down.

What are the chances of this happening? It's just a coincidence that they were running a war-game drill, mirroring the same monumental event to be documented in history books for centuries? Of course it’s possible, but very unlikely.

This is so weird to have happened, and even weirder is the fact that this type of a war-game is going on the morning of 911. This type of event would be similar to seeing Oswald and the CIA training how to kill Kennedy in Dealy Plaza an hour before it happened.

Yahoo News - Agency planned exercise on Sept. 11 built around a plane crashing into a building
USA Today - NORAD has drills to use jets as weapons
Associated Press - Exercise built around crashing planes into buildings



In addition, the list of the 19 hijackers and their picture identification was assembled and aired just hours after the attack. How do we jump to the accusations that 19 suspects are guilty of 3,000 American murders when most, if not all of the evidence, is twisted metal and degenerated ashes that used to be people? Actually by the time the hijackers had their mug shots aired on TV, all of the crime scenes had been destroyed. Buildings one and two collapsed, as well as the mysterious building seven collapsing on its own, the plane that hit the pentagon disintegrated, and flight 93 was likely shot down, hours later we miraculously post all of their mug shots on the news? Damn, we must be good.

So how exactly did the United States leap to their allegations of guilt?

A travel bag belonging to one of the 911 hijackers was found at the airport after the attacks, absolutely ruling beyond any doubt, that this was the work of Al-Queda.

Question: Why would a hijacker, planning to commit suicide, even BRING A BAG? Let alone pack it w/ incriminating evidence sure to unleash a fire storm of military hell on all of his fellow Mid Eastern people? The bag contained enough evidences to precisely tie the perpetrators to the Taliban and Al-Queda justifies the assault in Afghanistan.


Answer: this is MANUFACTURED EVIDENCE


Now BBC has began running stories that many of these men have shown up as being still alive. The 911 Hijackers steal our planes to suicide attack us because were apparently not in sync with what the Qu'ran says, and then they show up still being alive. So that means that at least five of the men on the hijackers list cannot be the same men who were on the plane. But the government has stuck to their official story on this, and no one in the mainstream media has ever brought this up, or challenged them on it. Many of the hijackers are now appearing on television in their countries and professing their innocence. A lot of information like this has been circulating around other parts of the world, and it is likely part of the reason why America's image has dropped from negative to terrible. Most people in other countries know this is going on, but Americans are sleeping.


The Truth is unleashed in other parts of the world but it’s concealed from American eyes as a way to demonize Americans to the rest of the world, while American media demonizes the rest of the world (particularly Arabs) to America, this is a way of polarizing both side to inspire conflict on both sides.

Sources:


High JAck Suspects alive and well
High Jack Suspects Alive in Morroco


Bombs in the Towers




___ This next part is important, because it's hardcore visual evidence of government involvement in 9/11 and is nearly impossible to deny.

Building seven, first of all, was the third building to collapse within the World Trade Center Complex. According to the government’s official story, building seven was destroyed from fire, along with buildings one and two.

Videos Show Building 7's 6.5 second symmetrical collapse



First of all it’s important to say that fire has never once brought a steel structure down. Out of 100 uncontrolled fires in the last 50 years NEVER has fire collapsed a steel building, only earthquakes and explosives have been able to flatten these modern structures.

So, why is building seven so significant? It’s important because building seven collapsed without being struck by an airplane or anything else, almost as if it were the wind that knocked it over.

Several videos have been salvaged which show building seven's collapse and shocking evidence has surfaced from scrutiny.

CBS Broadcast of Buildinding Seven's fall - Dan Rather admits it looks like Explosives
Building Seven's Collapase from a mile away
Building Seven's Colapse from 1000 feet away, this is very obvious

You see, building seven DECENTEGRATED INTO RUBBLE in a vertical symmetrical fashion in 6.5 seconds. If building seven was taken down by an aircraft impact (even though it was not) it would have thrown back horizontally, transferring the energy away from the airplane impacts. And if it was fire, even though the flames would have had to have burnt exponentially hotter for a much longer time, we would have seen the structure reduced into liquid metal, and the streets would be a river of flame. But this building simply fell straight to the ground and crumbled.

I need to explain something about controlled demolition. First of all, when buildings are demolished the explosives are placed in the central column, so the structure falls inwards and does not damage other surrounding buildings. So they only way the building can fall like this or fall period is through the use of explosives.

THE FEMA REPORT ON WORLD TRADE CENTER 7 COLLAPSE IS A TOTAL JOKE.



“Each of the following videos shows the entire visible portion of the building falling with a vertical precision otherwise seen only in controlled demolition. Moreover, they show that the collapse took only about 6.5 seconds from start to finish. That rate of fall is within a second of the time it would take an object to fall from the building's roof with no air resistance”





BUT, building seven is even more important because the official story of building seven collapse is because it was damaged from fire, HOWEVER, Larry Silverstine the owner of buildings one, two, and seven, got on television on America Rebuilds on PBS, and slipped up, ADMITTING, THAT HE BLEW UP BUILDING SEVEN, He Said "WE PULLED THE BUILDING!" Here's the video from the PBS documentary.

http://infowars.com/Video/911/wtc7_pbs.WMV

Here's another clip where a demolitions expert describes "PULL IT" As a controlled demolition.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/pullit2.mp3

NOW, it's extremely important to mention that rigging buildings with explosives is a tiresome and very time consuming process, and to properly plant explosives in mathematically harmonious fashion to create a smooth symmetrical drop. Actually it would take weeks to prepare for the demolition. So not only does Larry Silverstone, the owner of the complex admit to blowing up building seven, But building seven COULD NOT have been demolished on such short notice. Weeks of demolitions planning does not jive well with Osama's surprise attack. In fact it's impossible.

Another particularly important part of this is to note that Towers one, two, and seven have all of the 10 characteristics of a controlled demolition, a building collapsing from fire and plane impact damage having one of the characteristics of controlled demolition is astronomically rare, the chances of this damage having all 10 characteristics of a controlled demolition and not being a controlled demolition is next to nil. These characteristics are.

1. Each collapse occurred at virtually free fall speed;
2. Each building collapsed straight down, for the most part onto its own footprint;
3. Virtually all the concrete was turned into very fine dust;
4. In the case of the Twin Towers, the dust was blown out horizontally for 200 feet or more;
5. The collapses were total, leaving no steel columns sticking up hundreds of feet into the air;
6. Videos of the collapses reveal "demolition waves", meaning "confluent rows of small explosions";
7. Most of the steel beams and columns came down in sections that were no more than 30 feet long;
8. According to many witnesses, explosions occurred within the buildings;
9. Each collapse was associated with detectable seismic vibrations (suggestive of underground explosions);
10.Each collapse produced molten steel (which would be produced by explosives), resulting in "hot spots" that remained for months.?

Source:

Professor David Ray Griffin
http://www.rbnlive.com/absentia_trial.html

Good lookin to Dem Bruce Lee Stylez, and his MIGHTY nine eleven thread right here

Historical Comparison



----The Burning of the Reichstag



In 1933 Adolph Hitler wanted to seize dictatorial powers and turn Germany into a police state. So he set the massive governmental building on fire that is known as the Reichstag (German Parliament) the blazing infernos sent the population into a state of petrified fear. Adolph Hitler and his party won by a landslide in the election just weeks later and later on was able to merge the Chancellor’s powers with that of the Presidents, and this is the origin of where his dictatorial power came from. Hitler also blamed the terrorist attack on the communists, and received a pretext, or a reason, to attack them.


The real Pretext

Hitler’s conspiratorial tactic of burning the Reichstag to receive dictatorial power, and a pretext to attack his enemies is a method that is known as the Hegelian Dialectic, which is translated simply as problem, reaction, solution. The Hegelian Dialectic is a tactic that was developed by the 19th century German philosopher George Wilhelm Fredric Hegel. The way this works is, you create a crisis, the population is thrown into fear, and then you, the creator of the crisis, step in with a pre-organized solution, and pose as the savior. As soon as 911 occurred, literally while the smoke was still streaming from the building, politicians began targeting us with Doublethink approaches to get us to give up our freedom for security.

I don't want to digress too much, but this is important.

Doublethink is the practice of misrepresenting something bad as something good, such as pushing identity theft propaganda in order to get the people wanting a national ID card. This was the phrase coined in George Orwell's book 1984, which psychologically persuaded the population to relinquish there freedom unto big brother and simultaneously be happy about it. We see doublethink utilized daily by politicians.

The Hegelian Dialectic fused with the double think approach has given ruthless men an unbelievably effective tactic of power consolidation. But this time it's bigger,




PNAC(Project For a New American Centeury

The Project for a New American Century (PNAC) was founded by Dick Chenney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Lewis Libby and others in 2000. This is a pro-globalization neo-con think tank. On his website Dick Cheney lays out a Blueprint for America to invade many of it's neighbors and construct a "global command and control system" Cheney sites Syria, Libya, and North Korea as terrorist regimes, and uses their existence to justify invasions and restructuring there powers under a Pax America. It's strange, earlier in the year; Rumsfeld was selling Nuclear Reactors to North Korea. Now he's sitting in meetings at PNAC calling them a dangerous regime. HaHa, who made them more dangerous, Mr. Rumsfeld?
This document also mentions that public support would be very difficult to rally for these upcoming wars, and that a "Pearl Harbor Like Attack" would be very helpful. Now this is a public document, saying we need helpful Pearl Harbor attacks, that's motive, and practically admittance.

Sources:

PNAC offical site read the documents.
Meacher talks about PNAC too
Guardian UK - The Two Faces of Rumseld

Not only this, but


"the US and the UK, are running dangerously low on hydrocarbon energy supplies. And by 2010 the Muslim world will control as much as 60% of the worlds oil production, and 95% of the remaining exportable oil. "

Protecting oil supplies in a crisis
Taliban to Texas for Oil Talks
Bottom of the Barrel, the world is runnin out of oil, why do Politicans refuse to talk about it?
Threats of US to strike Taliban weeks before the attacks



Cui Bono(Who Benefits?)

Three Corporations involved in the war on terror/The World effort. They are the
Carlyle Group, Unocal, and Halliburton,

Carlyle group: Bush and the Bin Laden family are BOTH investors in this company, that is headed almost exclusively by former government officials. They developed missile targeting systems, and have exponentially increased their profits since 911.


Unocal: Bush just hired the former CEO, I believe to his administration, others inside the camp are investors as well. This is the company building the pipeline through Afghanistan, to route the oil out, they are poised to make a killing off of oil deals directly resulting from 911 after math.

Halliburton: I don't even half to say it. Well incase I do, Halliburton is a construction company raking in billions of dollars from rebuilding the spots on the map, after America destroys them.

And to top all that off,

"No serious attempt has ever been made to catch Bin Laden. In late September and early October 2001, leaders of Pakistan's two Islamist parties negotiated Bin Laden's extradition to Pakistan to stand trial for 9/11. However, a US official said, significantly, that "casting our objectives too narrowly" risked "a premature collapse of the international effort if by some lucky chance Mr. Bin Laden was captured". The US chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, General Myers, went so far as to say that "the goal has never been to get Bin Laden" (AP, April 5 2002). The whistle blowing FBI agent Robert Wright told ABC News (December 19 2002) that FBI headquarters wanted no arrests. And in November 2001 the US air force complained it had had al-Qaida and Taliban leaders in its sights as many as 10 times over the previous six weeks, but had been unable to attack because they did not receive permission quickly enough (Time Magazine, May 13 2002). None of this assembled evidence, all of which comes from sources already in the public domain, is compatible with the idea of a real, determined war on terrorism"
Micheal Meacher

The War on terror is not the war on terror, it's putting the PNAC agenda into action.

Not only have they blatantly avoided chances to catch Bin Laden, but many reporters have written articles about top government officials holding the investigation in the dark, delaying them, and in some cases even protecting the terrorists. I'd post the actual document but I'm out of picture slots so you have to settle for the article, or research the rest yourself.

Bush restricts 911 probesTop Taladan leader freed by US
911 study hindered
Bush trying to hide 911 information
911 documents to sensitive for realse
Bush discourages 911 investagations
Times of India - Bush took FBI agents off the Trail of Bin Ladens
Guardian UK - Agent Blasts FBI over 11 Sept 'cover up'


Goes on and on


ILLUMINATI NEW WORLD ORDER, THE CARD GAME

Not only has PNAC directly stated that they want "helpful Pearl Harbor Attacks" in their official documents, but a card game entitled Illuminati New World Order, surfaced in 1995, which described the events of 911 with a shocking level of accuracy. The game INWO contained cards that said the words "Terrorist Nuke" at the top with an illustration of the Twin Towers being destroyed clearly shows tower one being demolished first.



-This amazingly means, that this card predicted almost exactly what happened in New York City, six years before the actual event. It also identifies the villains as "Terrorist" at the top, which was not a term used nearly as much before 911, I don't know about the nuke part, although explosives were definitely in use on September 11th.

-The explosion on the card is very close to the actual planes entry point.

-Another interesting thing to note, is the illuminati pyramid to the left of tower two.



This card is chilling. We know that the plane or the missile or whatever hit the pentagon, pierce through several walls puncturing holes through several of the steel reinforced concrete walls at the Pentagon, and actually exploded somewhere in the middle, Although it took out a wing, the rest of the pentagon was unscathed.

Here is a flash of the Pentagon which accurately shows the damage very similar to this card.

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryho...ntagon.php#Main

Funny how they got both of these elements of the attacks right and didn't make any mistakes six years before the attack, perhaps someone had advanced knowledge of it.

On March 1st 1990 the Secret Service and Austin Police raided Steve Jackson, the maker of the games, office and confiscated four of his computers. Steve Jackson games fought back in court, but nearly suffered bankruptcy in the process. The charges were so bogus on the affavid that the judge awarded $50,000 as well as attorneys fees to SJG. It's strange the secret service would bother the manufacture of a role playing game, perhaps it was to stop them from releasing Illuminati New World Order. This is definitely not the strongest piece of evidence in this expose, but it does show prior knowledge, and is quite interesting.

Here is the website of the game maker.
http://www.sjgames.com/inwo/

And props to the Cutting Edge for bringing this to my attention, most of what I have articulated is paraphrased from their article on INWO. Although theirs gets a bit too weird for me, here is the original article and props to them once again.


http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1753.cfm

The really scary thing is,


Home Land security = Police State Mechanism

New Laws in the Works, are...

Patriot Act: Old school now, Police and government officials do not need warrants to enter homes now, and can seize anything in your house, and not tell you they were there for 60 days. Also ambiguous language could allow for secret juryless trials and even executions for supposed "Terrorists". The definition of a terrorist as shown in the Patriot Act is one who commits "Any act that endangers human life, IN VIOLATION WITH ANY FEDERAL OR STATE LAW" So Jay walkers and pot dealers are terroist too. The Patriot Act has been used on many "domestic terrorists" for crimes such as being a gang member to writing a story here are some of the many examples, of new laws designateing all American citizens as enemeis of the state.




Pot dealears are terrorists now.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/loca...uggling29m.html
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/349/creep.shtml
http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/V...patriot20040805
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/007442.html

People who write storries about Zombies, are terrorists too,
http://www.lex18.com/Global/story.asp?S=2989614&nav=EQlpWjof
http://www.paxtonland.com/archives/2005/03/002907.php
http://minorkey.deviantart.com/journal/4729752/


Gang members are terrorists too
http://www.newstarget.com/003554.html
http://www.terroranalysis.com/story/107777.html
http://www.mydd.com/story/2004/12/30/23170/828

Who else?
People who own Toy Stores are being visited by Home Land Security, why would they do that?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=206591
http://www.stupidsecurity.com/article.pl?s...238&mode=thread
http://www.stupidsecurity.com/article.pl?s...238&mode=thread

Photographers have been arrested under the Patriot Act
http://grep.law.harvard.edu/article.pl?sid...247&mode=thread

FBI says Patriot Act used in Vegas strip club corruption probe
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/200...s/22521283.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/p...ptionprobe.html
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/.../515818511.html
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3540572/
http://news.neilrogers.com/news/articles/2003111407.html



Anti-terror laws increasingly used against common criminals
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...1259EDT0480.DTL

Shopkeeper deported from South Carolina under PATRIOT Act killed in Pakistan
http://www.unknownnews.net/030929dead.html

And there's even more examples of this here, I don't feel the need to post
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/octob...4patriotact.htm


National ID cards, are also on the agenda which contain name, address the usual things, but also a finger and a retinal print, also rumors are circulating about a possible tracking chip inside of them. Homeland security had a fetish w/ RFID technology, and may use it to track us all w/ it through are cards.

We have the National all Prescriptions reporting act, which makes all of your medical drug information accessible by Federal agencies, all of them in fact since their all allowed sharing information now.

And the possible enactment of mandatory psychological testing for children and prescribing drugs without the parents consent.
There are also talks of extending the program to the entire population. (Note: The Forced psychological testing bill has already been passed, search “new freedom initiative” for more info)

AND the mother of them all of course, the Patriot Act II, while the first Patriot Act is just a destruction first, third, fourth and fifth amendments, Patriot Act II is a carbon copy of the powers that Hitler and Julius Caesar gave themselves
Patriot Act II creates an expanded definition for domestic terrorism, And it allows any terrorism act to result in the death penalty, allows federal access to your bank, educational, and financial records, and makes conspiracy to commit terror a crime with out endangering any life what so ever. And amazingly makes information gathering illegal, in fact this post right here would go under the heading of "Info Terrorism"

Patriot act II is enormously unpopular, and received massive amounts of bad press, so it's being passed in smaller increments, 10% of it has already been passed as HR2417, which allows for the pulling of all Financial and Medical transcripts.

"Strengthening Patriot Act I is code for passing Patriot Act 2."
There trying to do this now.

Prominent 911 whistle blowers

One might wonder, if all of this evidence which literally Swiss chesses the official story being in existence, why has there not been more of an outcry about it? Well, there has, famous people all over the world have been questioning and exposing the 911 cover-up.

Micheal Meacher MP, former environmental advisor in the British Government - This War on Terrorism is Bogus
former UK Government Minister speaks out about the standdown of NORAD on September 11th, PNAC and the pre-planned wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,...1036571,00.html
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/070204meacher.htm

Andre Van Buelow
Von Buelow is the former German Defense Minister and Minister of Technology. Von Buelow went public to say the US government carried out 9/11. His book is one of the bestsellers across Europe.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/021104vonbuelow.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/020804vonbuelow.html

Robert Wright, FBI special Agent,
http://www.prisonplanet.com/FBI_agent_I_wa...error_probe.htm

Cynthia Mckinney (Representative D-GA) Grills Rumsfeld on wargames going on the morning of 9/11, he does not deny
http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinn...ls_rumsfeld.htm

Morgan Reynolds, (former chief economist for the Department of Labor during President George W. Bush's first term) says 911 Offical story is a fruad
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20...02755-6408r.htm
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds7.html
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44787


AND, Jimmy Walters the billionaire activist has gone so far as to, run commericals on televission, showing the evidence behinde building seven, and has also offered a $100,000 reward to any enginner who can proove that the towers fell the way they were said to have fallen in the offical story.

http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/new...hp?storyid=1013
September 11 conspiracy theorist offers prize - Reuters






Summary:


911 was such a cataclysmic event, it galvanized both the idiots and the intellectuals of America into a flag waving frenzy for nearly five years. 911 has become a never ending excuse to fight any war over seas, and implement any authoritarian rule domestically. Politicians were so quick to exploit this event, jumping into there tanks and battle suits while rushing 1000 page bills through the Senate and House. One has to wonder, why the knee jerk reaction of this attack was to shift into throwing a doublethink deception at the people, telling them to give up freedom for liberty before the smoke had yet to even clear from the air.

Giving up freedom for Liberty is a False Paradigm. No Liberty = Tyranny.

The freedom for security trade off is a sham, because a population enslaved to their government is not safe, it’s is doubly unsafe, and incapable of defending itself from any outside threat. And even if we had an ethically loving government, (which I don’t believe we do) we’re paving the way for tyranny if an evil leader ever got into power. Most politicians and leaders know this, the fact that they instantaneously jumped into this deceptive and seemingly well planned out strategy is suspicious.

As the Roman judges used to say when a crime was committed, “key bono?”, or who benefits? The extremely powerful globalists who masterminded this attack want to put America in a permanent state of emergency to place authoritarian our nation, and so we will allow the invasions of uncontrolled Arab states, (Perhaps others too) to create a global climate in which people will beg them for a one world government. A government ruled by them. It’s Order out of chaos.

I've developed quite a case here, and I think my arguments are supported extremely well, even without all of my information on the towers; this is very strong evidence that we are being lied too, almost on a daily basis. Most of this literally proves the official story is a fraud and there's a lot of things I chose not to talk about, like 100s of Al-Queda and Taliban being flown out after 911, Insider trading right before 911, or Bush pulling FBI agents off of the Trail of the Bin Laden right before 911 (Edit: I did touch on that) and signing documents to protect them. However I've come to the conclusion that in this instance, the problem is there is actually TOO MUCH evidence here, so I won't even bother with the links for my last claims.

If you think I've made a compelling case, than I urge you learn more about this, because if I'm even remotely correct, and this New World Order a.k.a. the "Global Union" is created, by the same creatures who carried out this attack, I don't think your going to want to live under the tyranny grids they've constructed for you. I'm not charging the government with carrying this out, but these Rogue elements with tentacles into our government, who live in families who are worth five times as much as our countries annual budget. If you look more into this, I know you'll see that what I'm saying is true, this is what has happened with me. So please spread this thread around as much as you can, watch some of these movies I post at the bottom, PLEASE look into this more. I know when you find out what I'm saying is real; you'll fight it with even more compassion.

In the past only small pockets of people have had information on this subject, which served to cloak events in a protective secrecy. But lately a plethora of new information has been consolidated, creating an incredibly chaotic environment for the globalist where the risk of mass exposure is becoming very real. So once you learn, please spread this information on to others.

This is an information war, against elites with 90% of the wealth trying to control the political and financial systems to control mankind, and doing it for there own selfish desires. And information of this type is so much more powerful than any gun or grenade or tank or anything. Every single word we spew of resistance is a bullet, discharged from a chamber and sent into the heart of the New World Order Demon, and it will take a lot to kill it, but humanity will prevail.

911 Documentaries


Martial Law: 911 Rise of the Police State (The best damn 911 movie ever made)

Windows Media Player:
Broadband:

http://www.revradio.org/movies/ml.wmv

Dial up:

http://www.revradio.org/movies/ml56k.wmv

Stream:

Broadband:

http://www.revradio.org/movies/ml.wmx

Dial up:

http://www.revradio.org/movies/ml56k.wmx


Another MArtial Law Link

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3




911- The Road To Tyranny

Paineful Deceptions
Painful Deceptions DVD Part 1 (pentagon)
Painful Deceptions DVD Part 2 (building 7 and the two towers)
Painful Deceptions DVD Part 3 (media propaganda)

The Masters of terror
2:00:09
http://thewebfairy.com/video/collected/Mas...ror_128KBps.wmv

911 Truth and Lies 4 parts

http://www.illuminaticonspiracy.org/files/...ndLiesPart1.wmv
http://www.illuminaticonspiracy.org/files/...ndLiesPart2.wmv
http://www.illuminaticonspiracy.org/files/...ndLiesPart3.wmv
http://www.illuminaticonspiracy.org/files/...ndLiesPart4.wmv

Michael Parenti-Terrorism, Globalism and Conspiracy
http://www.workingtv.com/media5/parenti1.wmv
http://www.workingtv.com/media5/parenti2.wmv
http://www.workingtv.com/media5/parenti3.wmv
http://www.workingtv.com/media5/parenti4.wmv
http://www.workingtv.com/media5/parenti5.wmv

Illuminazi 9-11
http://www.nwowatcher.com/downloads/illuminazi.wmv

The Microchip
http://www.nwowatcher.com/downloads/The%20Microchip.wmv

Free ebooks

The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O. (Illuminati, Templars, Freemasons, etc.).pdf
Order Out of Chaos - Paul Joseph Watson
A Chronological History of the New World Order - Denis Cuddy
Conspiracy ebook - The New World Order - Milton William Cooper
Global Tyranny Step by Step - By WIlliam F. Jasper


[url=http://www.nwowatcher.com/downloads.html]A sh** load more Documentaries and ebooks can be foun

Those links are kook sites and pseudo nonsense,Sub-Zer0,can you tell the difference!
Basically it's a bunch of pseudoscientists talking mumbo jumbo, and while true structural engineers, metallurgists, and avionics experts arouund the world just blow them off as ignorant fools, some conspiracy-minded laymen like your self listen to them with rapt attention.

I suggest that you go through the links in the first post in this thread,every single one of your conspiracy claimes are explained , PM consulted more than 300 experts and organizations in its investigation into 9/11 conspiracy theories.

The very thought that the US government could pull this incredibly complex, convoluted, and supremely risky hoax off, fooling a vast cadre of experts world-wide, yet ineptly unable to pull the wool over the eyes of a few ideologues on some fringe web sites is just ludicrous.


But then again, inconsistencies are the foundation of these sorts of conspiracy theorys.
The HB's create them because they don't understand the details, then they project them onto "the establishment" as proof, implying that the "masterminds" of these events were somehow so inept in the execution of "their plan" that anyone could see right through it.


Your claims of a conspiracy has been totally debunked many times on this thread,but you dont know it,sense you dont read the counter posts.

Healthy skepticism, it seems, has curdled into paranoia.


Wild conspiracy tales are peddled daily on the Internet, talk radio and in other media. Blurry photos, quotes taken out of context and sketchy eyewitness accounts have inspired a slew of elaborate theories: The Pentagon was struck by a missile; the World Trade Center was razed by demolition-style bombs; Flight 93 was shot down by a mysterious white jet.


As outlandish as these claims may sound, they are increasingly accepted among extremists in the United States.


Its a simple solution really - America, in particular the conspiracy theorists just cannot accept that an 3d world arab nation can perpetrate and act on American soil - if they could they would get over it.
Then address the problem - this sort of discussion is endemic of the disease - the right of America not to ever be attacked by lesser nations - I thought Pearl Harbour might have rung a few bells - but here we are 4 years after the tragic events of 9/11 still rehashing the old theories.


If you persist in the ostrich theories that it was the NWO/CABAL/GOV CONSPIRACY etc you may long suffer such atrocities - if you pull your heads out of the sand and listen to what the world is telling you then we can work together to solve these issues.

To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists about 9-11, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.

In the end, they were able to debunk each of these assertions with hard evidence and a healthy dose of common sense. They learned that a few theories are based on something as innocent as a reporting error on that chaotic day.

On the following link all the 911 silly claims are being debunked with extrem accuracy.
Start proving these people wrong, and maybe the rest of us can start to take you serious.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/de...html?page=1&c=y

What's really wierd is if pepople inside the WTC were told 2 hours beforhand that they were going to be attacked, why did they stay at their desks, even after the first impact?

(btw you can get an instant message anywhere these days. It's called a telephone! )




That's a load of rubbish, and you know it.

This is what the USA Today report actually says:-



There have been military exercises in the UK based on a fictional world power invading Britain. By your reasoning this surely means that such an event will most definitekly happen. Very soon.

The CIA have even been known to produce contingency plans against the sort of events depicted in "The Day After Tomorrow" actually happening - even though they're physically impossible.

You really do need to get out into the real world more......

What people like Sub-zero and the other CTs fail to understand is that a theory is more than a hunch.
It's a sturdy scientific model that's been tested by repeated observations and backed up by empirical evidence,in this case 300 experts,but for some reason these pseudo scientists still believe that they are the only ones that can see right through this "evil conspiracy."


Then there's that weird claim that a missile hit the Pentagon, and not a plane.
Thousands of witnesses on the ground, on the beltway, looked up and behold, they saw a plane acting very odd. Several airforce people, and several civilian experts, who can differentiate between a plane and a missile, who know both for thier livelyhood, saw a PLANE.
This link shows clearly the many parts of the 757 at the Pentagon crash site.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pe...e_evidence.html


Try asking these Woo Woos if they think that the government is responsible for "chemtrails" or that there are aliens hidden away at area 51.

You see,they never belive in just 1 of these silly conspiracies,hoaxes and paranormal nonsense.

google vigilant gaurdian or tripod II --the exact same scenario on the same day--
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it seems you are the one who needs to get out--its common knowledge--you just made your self appear severely inept(even though your perspective already demonstrates a lack of common sense)--now factor in the FACT that the london 7/7 bombings had the exact same situation transpire--the exact same scenario on the exact same day only theirs is worse as it guessed the correct three stations out of many--i dont care if popular mechanics consulted 1000 experts it does not change the fact that the report is nothing more than chertoff's opinion nor does it refute the eye witness testimony or the collapse of bldg 7 recorded on video--