Zero that falls under Oh woe is me, i didn't say you had disrespected hyper before but you were in that post and i have seen that repeatedly over and over with many others read others posts to you they aren't favorable and you have more than once felt justified in your disrespect towards me and have said so read your posts and I'm saying its enough now STOP, , at this point I've said my peace and would like to move on and get back on topic, Namaste Sheri

And I would like you to stop disrespecting me in return.



Hyper, I was only saying I thought it could be possible that God created the big bang. But since you think the bible is worth "nothing", there's no use in me going any farther with this topic with you, lol.. << I don't get how this is "ROFL", more like "RO".

zero,

i actually do think the bible is worth something. Different parts are of value to different purposes. However, the value only lies there if the user and the use are compatible.

The history of the creation of the myths of the NT alone is a great lesson on how to control a people. A greater hoax may never have been played out.

The Torah, on the other hand, is a wonderful example of social order (and it takes something longer lasting than a man's lifespan to create long term stability). The jews have survived as a unique culture against the odds because of their social rules. There are also fascinating things in the jewish teachings that demonstrate how advanced man was 3000 years ago. Too bad christianity came along or imagine where mankind would be today.

To be honast there's only a few things I find odd about the idea of the bible only being written to control people.


Why would a man tell another man not to have sex before marriage, and also alot of other things in the bible that doesn't seem like man would want as rules. Is there any proof that this could be the reason the bible was written? Just being curious(don't want Sherri or someone else taking it the wrong way. That is a serious question)

So who do you think said this Zero???let me guess "god"

Yeah. Sorry I don't agree with you Sherri.


But I'm asking, if man said this, why would a man tell a man not to have sex before marriage. And not just one man, many men wrote the bible, so if one of those men didn't agree with something in the bible, he could have just tossed it out. So alot of men must have agreed with that rule. If I wrote the bible, I can promise you it wouldn't say not to have sex before marriage.

Zero you don't have to apologize for disagreeing wht are you disagreeing to?

You don't think that the bible is the word of God. That is what I disagree with.

zero,

law of property. women know who fathers their children, but until recent times men had to take the word of women on who where their proper offspring. Patriarchal societies operate on the passage of title and property. Do you see the picture here? If a MAN wants to ensure his bloodline is being continued and his title and property is remaining in his bloodline, he needs to know for certian about his wife. Patriarchal societies place great value on property and title, far more value on it than casual sex. Besides, casual sex was always available in various forms. (note that by jewish custom, women are NOT powerless for it is via the woman that one is jewish - a natural balancing of the power that was lost by the power hungry men that invented what became christianity). I really recomment you look at history, and not just the bible version of it. Ask questions about the real history of man and his societies. You will be amazed at what you learn.

okay why?

What about the many men who liked having more than one "mistress"? I'm sure their were alot of those, if not more back then. I don't see how the bible could have gotten so far if man made it himself.

So, you're saying that back in the day, there were more men who wanted to ensure their offspring than they were men who wanted casual sex here and there?


I also don't see how people could beleive the bible with no evidence that long ago. I mean, the date of the stories in bible weren't too far off from when the bible was written. How could so many people beleive it and follow it with no evidence being that it happend now far off into the past. Now days it would be way harder to obtain evidence. Back then couldn't they just ask a grandparent/great grandparent if the stories are true? I'll admit, I don't know alot about when certain things happend in the bible, but from a wild guess, wouldn't it be sort of like someone writting a book right now of something that happend maybe what, a 100 years ago? Our grandparents would sureley know if these things were true or not.

Zero Ther is a wonderful writer of the history of the bibles Karen Armstrong you can find her in the religious section she is a very comprehensive writer of how the bible came to be and why, you don't have enough info to make a informed decisoion no disrespect Zero, May i ask why do you want to beleive the bible is truly the word of God??? waht is the need??? I'm only asking sheril

things were even more 'liberal' before the times of babylon. things began going downhill with the creation of the patriarchy and the switch from 'common property' to 'private property'.

you certianly are obsessed with sex!

of course man has always enjoyed spreading his seed. however, man is a social animal that desires rank and privilage within his society. Rank and privilage grants mistresses, however, such excursions would not have given legitimate heirs. Plenty of illegitimate heirs where born and killed throughout history (killed depending on what society you look at). How title is passed depends entirely on the social order.

How is it people believe such a book today with no evidence to support it, and in fact more evidence than ever to discredit it? To understand you need to look in depth at how memory works, the society of the time, the people of the time, etc. People are very easily manipulated, and humans were far more advanced prior to the fall of babylon than those that think a god did everything great for them give humans credit for.

Why do you seem to think man is such a dunderhead that could not come up with anything on his own? that some being had to plant the thoughts in his head if they were revolutionary or insightful? What a miserable way to view humanity!

Yes, but today, we can't just ask our grandparents "Were these stories true", because they lived in those times. And if they replied "no", that would discredit the entire bible in a snap. And that's my point, I'd think man is smarter than that, that if they really didn't have any evidence at all, and their parents or grandparents or great grandparents lived at the time the stories were dated to, that they must have had a good reason to beleive those stories because their grandparents could have easily discredited the bible because they lived at the time the stories supposedly happend.

So to me, it seems as if those stories really did not happen, the people back then would have known the stories were just fiction and the bible would have never gotten this far. It would have been as easy as asking a grandparent "Did these things really happen?"




Another idea of mine is the fact that maybe there is no or little evidence of God. And the only reason evidence gets discredited is because people WANT to find proof SO BAD, they grab any little thing and twist it and say "this prooves the bible!". There may be evidence out there, but I'm sure alot of what people claim to find are just by people who are going crazy over board to make a point. I'm not saying there is no evidence at all. I'm saying that on an honast level, I'm sure some of it really is bull.


If some of that doesn't make sense, ignore me. When I get this tired my posts get crappy. XD

God is God, has always been God and will always be God.

zero, you are failing to see the difference between today's society and 2000 years ago (in the case of the NT).

People back then did not have such lovely communication systems, people did not live as long, people were not as literate, etc. The stories of the bible NT came to be after being set by the empiror (the same one that killed you for not accepting the new religion).

the first followers of 'jesus', those that lived during the lifetime of the jesus figure lived and thought much differently that those that came during and after the creation of christianity.

Amen.

yes, amen!

all worship the pineal gland in all its wonderful glory!

I hear people say "What created God?" as if, then, there is no God.
But when I ask "Without a God, explain existance?" there is no answer.
So, even though I can not explain God, with God at least I can explain "existance"

What about the OT?

Still with all that you said, would it still be that hard to discredit the bible back then, just by asking someone who lived in those times? I am a little tired so maybe I'm not fully getting your posts, but even with all you said, in my honest opinion, it doesn't seem to have been that hard to find out from people if those stories actualy happend or not.

And also about the king. If he could kill you for not accepting the new religion, did he really need religion to control people if he could kill you for not following his rules?

pallidin,

i can be just as fanciful as you.

existance without gods:
flying pigs made us and the earth
aliens planted us here
we don't exist
we are parasites in a trout's intestine

oh whatever. all these explain existance as much as ANY of the god tales.

zero, long term stability requires more than a man. a king is still a man.

again, how do you talk to people that are dead? the NT came after the fact.

as for the OT, it is more a book of social order than anything (yes it revolves around abrahams apparition, but anything 'bigger' than men that could be used to tie a people togehter that was within their understanding would have worked. even flying pigs if done correctly)

Hmmm, flying pigs= 0% evidence.

The bible= some evidence.


Not sure how legit this is, but I was reading through it ealier.




http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/two.html

Couldn't he just as easily could have made certain "laws" and pass these down for other's to uphold, instead of going through the trouble of writing stories to trick people into following it.

That position makes one VERY RIPE for cult manipulation, as one is open to any thing.

there is as much evidence for flying pigs as there is for abraham's apparition!

look up 'appeal to authority'. people incorrectly accept this all the time. where does a king, the top of the pecking order, appeal? it provides for a long term stability (amung other things that preying on superstition does). To rule a people you need a certian level of unity. People forget minor differences in the face of a common threat or purpose. Remember we are dealing with a people that do not have answers (then or now) and gleefully appeal to anything as a better choice than nothing. Do not forget the pineal gland either. The reason a uniting force is possible is because of the basic biology that unites all (especially when it is not properly understood). You know the difference between hearing a voice outside your head and hearing a voice in your head. This is a more recent (in the timeline of human existance) development, for example.

Zero why do you need to beleive so badly in this God thats the question you might want to ask???2000 years ago as today people didn't question things they accepted waht was told to them on blind faith the consequence to challenge authority was to shun and in most cases kill are you telling me that anyone would of questioned anything after reading the bible or hearin the passed down stories ,Man decided what god wanted and who god was gonna be , its pretty obvious , you need to beleive in this for wahtever reasons the question is why??? Why do you need this sort of diety to beleive in???

I'm getting confused.

First you're saying people were pretty smart back then(Just as others do when you try to show how the bible has some scientific knowledge in it). Then you're making them out to be not so smart, lol. >.>

Anywho, did you check out the link I supplied?


Sherri, all your posts are almost identicle. To answer all of them. I don't need to beleive in God, I choose to beleive in God.

The best I've ever seen to disprove the bible was the question "Can God create a rock he can't lift", and that's already not a good one(Google it to find out). But that's a whole other topic. Every other thing can still be debated because it's not 100% on either side.

sort of like the cult of the man-god that has run its course over the past 2000 years?

zero: 'smart' is not universal. one can be very wise in one area and a dunderhead in another. one can understand navigation of the world yet fear shadows. humans are complicated. Superstition runs deep. People do not understand themeselves or people very well even today! Look up 'appeal to authority', it wil shed quite a bit of light on the questions you ask.

edit: now as for your proof of god - well, godliness is an attribute YOU are creating and granting onto something. There is more than ample evidence to discredit abraham's apparition. Now as to a universal consciousness, or something outside the universe, or even just something outside our perception, you are correct we have not proven or disproven anything. However, ask yourself about the relevency of such things to life. If you ask honestly, you will find them to be as relevent as flying pigs, tooth fairies, vampires, and other such constructs of the imagination.

Never forget the brain creates all on its own without your input.

I know what it means but what are you getting at?

To me, God is like another person's thoughts. Your friend thinks of the number 3. And he tells you he's thinking of the number 3, and you know you can trust him. So, you beleive he's thinking of the number 3 and he really is, but you can't proove it, test it or anything. Better yet, you can't really proove that any person aside from yourself even has a conscious. Or thinks of the number 3, or thinks of a tree, etc..... Things can exist that we can't test or use any of our senses on. So I think just because we can't see hear or feel God, that doesn't discredit him one bit. I can't see hear or feel your thoughts, does that mean you have none?

The "secret things" belong to God. The mind of man can not fathom such wonders.

the only things that belong to your god are those things you grant it dominion over!

it is nothing without you creating it.

Zero why do you choose to beleive in a false God??? You have no proof, nothing original,
the best i can get out of this is your grandma told you a story, it confirms the bible . ny brothers an alien my dog told me its the same logic, I'd do alittle more research if I was you.

Peace to ALL as I retire for the evening...

LMAO girl please stop. You did it again. "your grandma told you". Dude, I'm not even around my grandmother, hardly ever. I did ALOT of research on the bible. I'm not saying the link I supplied is any good, but you don't even mention it, so I'm guessing you didn't even read it, but yet you still just say "you have no proof". It would help if you'd at least read it first. Next time you make another post like that again(Saying more things about me like my grandma telling me things, etc), I promise you, it will be ignored.



Share your proof that your beleifs are true with me please. Since yours are so much better than mine.



Sherri, what do you beleive in? The big bang? What?

Life I beleive in life. you are doing a horrible job of convincing me the bible is true, I would not be satisfied with a site on goggle,

I'm not trying to convince you. I'm disagreeing because you say there is no proof so I'm trying to show you otherwise. And that's all you have to say about the site. You judge a book by it's cover, but have nothing to say about the cotent in on the page?


Yes, but how did life come about, and where is your proof on what you beleive?

ok zero, would you win the lottery if you got to buy your ticket after the draw?

to answer just one part of your site: the prophecies claimed to be filled were written about and added to the bible after the events took place! add to that the only source for proclaiming the events occured is..... the bible! isn't it great when you can write history any way you want it?

edit: zero, your arguments remind me of an old christian song that goes "yes jesus loves me, for the bible tells me so"......

Well, of course I have to ask for proof of what you say. Can you proove that these things were written after it happend?

Zero come on now be serious I'm here living a life as you and everyone else that works for me your personal experince is proof, not anyone or anything outside of yourself your truth can only be found within , this you can prove to yourself, simply look within. I don't talk on nonsense or mytholigies as reality, I'm naturally perspicuitous (sp) I see what is so and do wht works.

I'm asking you what created the universe.




Then how did those things happen before they wrote it in the bible if in your opinion, they never happend? I don't see how that makes sense.

well, i don't expect you to take my word for it.

i don't know of any online content for your quick perusal (all my studies on such things were done the old way). PM our resident expert on such things, mako and he should be able to give you a link or two.



we know what happened and didn't happen more or less based on multiple independent accounts. for example, a war should have physical evidence, and/or stories from multiple sources (the bigger the war, the more the accounts). Since the controllers of the bible/torah were the 'diffinitive' accounts for the history of the religion, they were free to put things any way that best served them (remember the victor writes history).

I edited my post instead of double posting. I asked a question.(hyperactive)

simple: they were building a mythology to support a culture to support an empire....

if you were writing your resume for a job, would you write in a way to make yourself sound as good as possible or to sound dull and drab? same principle.

I'm not getting it XD


Are you saying that they went back and added the story to the bible?

I think I might make another topic and post as many "evidences of the bible" as I can to see how many can be debunced.

do a search first. the topic might have already been done as the bible gets an unfair share of attention.

Well, this is the only one I can find. I'll read through it and see if it'd be ok to make another one. The topic is closed so. http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...ible%20evidence

Zero I'm a realist in the moment type !!! its anyones guess but I'd go with science if pressed but I really don't know , when I was younger I had my "ideas" but in my older years I find that comfort is in wht you don't know wisdom isn't in all the right answers its in the right questions. I'm not caught up in the illusion My philosophy is a life time of experince you could never beleive as I do you need to come up with your own ideas thats the whole point of your life be an original not a duplicate. thanks for asking on my beleifs but it will have no meaning to you. I can't feed you the answers you have a differnt life experience you have to come up with your own questions you have to make the really tough desicions Zero you lifes meaning is the meaning you give it and so far I see no meaning other than from those that have walked before. Namaste Sheri

Not being mean or rude, but what do my beleifs matter to you?