If god created us then who created god? (Bare with me this i really hard for me to explain)



In my opinion this is a never-ending cycle, an ever-growing chain that has no beginning. God is supposedly the "Alpha the omega and the end" but I find that his story lacks a prelude. These are my questions that are left unanswered.


What is before the alpha?

Who gave birth to god?

Who created the creator of god and so forth?

Perhaps my real question is how is a beginning possible. If there was a beginning before god then he certainly is not the alpha, right?

My ADHD infected brain hurts so very much.

Even if something really did exist that never had a beggining we wouldn't be able to understand it because of our finite minds. And we only know time as we see it. We've never encountered anything that never had a beggining. And just because we can't understand it, doesn't mean it's impossible.

Think about it like this. The big bang theory. What create it, what created what created it, etc.... Some beleive that whatever created the big bang was just always there. In that case, the same can be applied to God. Simple.

If God had to have had a beggining, then doesn't that even rule out the big bang because how can it come from non-existance into existance from nothing. And if it did come from something, what created that something?

i have said something just like this b4.. i dont beleive in god and i beleive in the big bang.. but at the same time i still dont get where that came from..

ive been thinking about it and looking for answers and all i can come up with is exactly what u have said.. whether it b god or the big bang.. even if we find out what came b4 it and b4 that and b4 that we wil b goin on forever.. its really pointless trying to think about it.. ur not gonna get anywhere.. but IF someone figures it out.. lemme know.. it would b cool to know

How can you believe in something when you dont agree with- or understand it? That means you DONT believe the Big Bang either. Seeming you dont get where God or the Big Bang came from- you believe in them equally.

I think time is just something man made up. The better question is, WHY does everything need to have a beggining? What makes it impossible for something to not have always existed? Is it because our brains cannot understand this that we say it can't be so?


God's time is also different from ours. One proof of this is the fact that the bible speaks of one day to us is a thousand days to him. So, what stops other things from being different? God created our time, so maybe he created it so everything has a beginning and an end. In his time there may be neither.

I agree with what was basically stated above. We eventually get into the infinite cycle of what created the first thing, well what created that thing that created that, etc. It would appear to be that something out there has always existed. I believe with our finite minds we can't possibly understand the infinite.

understanding the infinite (and other such concepts) is not nearly as difficult as is being made out to be here. Perhaps is it that when one is not yet able to grasp such concepts they fall back on a simpler model, i.e. 'gods'.

Not really. I've heard someone say whatever started the big bang always existed.

and your point is, zero? 'always existed' equates with infinite, but is not an effort to bring in mythical entities to explain away what is not understood.

I was saying that they don't use Gods to explain the unexplained, some even say whatever started the big bang always existed. You don't need to use a God to explain that.

Maybe I misunderstood the point of your post. Heh.

By the way, I know that always existed equates with infinite.


But also, it's no impossible for something to exist that we cannot explain so therefore it may look as if someone would try to use something like God. Humans can't understand EVERYTHING.

Skek doesn't beleive in the Religious Made up god, it doesn't mean he has no theorys on how the universe got here. Namaste Sheri

Zero just wanted to add that time is a construct of man i know you got that, but things get easier the more you understand not harder, anything can be grasped the mysteries of the universe are very simplistic , like Hyper said the hard part is the stuff thats made up to explain things that you don't know and understand namaste sheri

I only stated we can't understand EVERYTHING. There are some things humans will not be able to explain or understand. Even the creation of this universe, no one knows for sure. They can only make theories.

Zero why not apply that same logic to religion why you are at it just a thought Namaste Sheri

But we are working on it!
And theories are based on facts!

Interestingly enough, Stephen Hawking has a theory that the Big Bang occurred in a collapsed universe. If this is so, we have to ask what made that universe.

I think I might have read something about that. I am not sure who it was by.

Matter expands to a point then collapses in on it's self to form another Big Bang. Matter then expands to a point and then the process starts all over again.
I do not know where I read this but I do remember it.

I just cant see something as always being, always existing. In my mind this just seems impossible, but then again im no god. Maybe life is the same as time and is forever stuck in a continues circle, I don’t know its hard to explain.

I myself am an atheist and I believe in nothing unless I see with my own two eyes. My mind only drifts so far before being skeptic and turning to another path. Perhaps until my questions are answered I will always be a skeptic.

I believe that the chicken came first.

Anyone who believes we can figure ANYTHING out is just greatly over estimating the intelligence of a human. Just my opinion. Not sure if it's a myth or not, but I've heard people say scientists still can't fully understand the human brain. And also the same about the conscious.

Yeah, and that's why it's called a theory and not a fact, it's not 100% correct.



Are you the type of person that beleives there is nothing that cannot be explained?

Whoah, wait a minute... that can be interpreted in 2 different ways. Can you define a theory using some other words Zero? I just want to be sure you know what a theory is...

What about an example.

Gravity is only a theory and not a fact.

no.. i can see a rock on the ground and not know where it originated.. doesnt mean i dont beleive in it tho. the whole god idea is just too hard of an idea to grasp. there is ZERO evidence to support the idea of god. jesus i beleive.. but not as the song of god.. just as a dude doin his thing.. lol. im too lazy to get into it right now..

Psh, yeah me too. I'm think I'm going to bed. Later peeps.

That doesnt tell me what I wanted to know. Please just redefine what a theory is according to you...

An extremely welll substantiated explanation of different aspects of the natural world that includes facts, laws, predictions, and tested hypothesess.

That definition doesnt make the distinction between fact and theory though.

There are also many other definitions. Alot of wich show that a theory is about 99.99999% proved to be true therefore not exactly FACT.

That was just one definition I remember off the top of my head.

And the bible doesn't come in any where near these stats (there is zero evidence to support religon as truth) (literally nada nothing zip) but you 'll except religion blindly, but not science hmm this is very interesting, science is the tool we use to discover the universe nothing is dead on and not one way explains it all but to dismiss science this seems very odd to me Zero ???? Namaste Sheri

i KINDA agree.. i beleive theres evidence about what jesus did but not enough evidence about who he was.. but i dont think he was son of god and there is zero hard evidence to support the idea that god exists.. i guess thats where blind faith comes in.. i dont know if this has anything to do with the thread.. i only read the last couple of posts.

I didnt understand that lol- maybe im tired or drunk or lazy- but if you see a rock on the ground- why would you "believe" in it? Its a rock. The idea we're talking about is that of God and who created God. You said you dont believe in God- but believe in the big bang even though you dont understand how it happened- you cant believe in something you dont understand. Since theres no ground breaking evidence of the Big Bang (infact more faults and questions) how can you "believe" in the Big Bang more than you believe in a "God"? You weren't here when the Earth was created or "formed"...so if you dont believe in God and dont understand the Big Bang- what other ideas or theories are you going to fall back on? There's none really- its one...the other...or none. You just seem confused- but i'll admit i know no more than you mate - there are many unanswered questions- but you sorta believing in Jesus, but not God and kinda believing in the Bing Bang- You're fence sitting

If you believe in science then you have to believe in its discoveries- science has helped solve many frauds and forgeries in terms of religion- but its also helped recover amazing discoveries of truth and fact found in that book you all doubt so much...The Bible. So if you believe in Science, you are infact helping replenish religion...as archeological findings are very recently starting to shine plenty of light on the Bible and its characters as not being fiction...but fact. So if you believe in science, you have to accept all findings- that includes that of religion- when something to do with religion is discovered sceptics who follow "science" always persuade that its a fake, or fraud or "unclear"- sorry you're only picking out what you want to hear and what you want to "believe". The recent possible finding of King Davids Palace if indeed confirmed you...yes you Namaste will have to accept that wont you.

lol.. ur missing the point totally.. my point is no matter WHAT is the truth.. god OR the big bang.. OR anything else.. it confuses me as to what came b4 it. thats all i was getting at.. my example with the rock was to point out i dont know where it came from.. i just know its there.. silly example i guess.. still tired tho.. even more tired.. havnt slept yet.. lol.

edit: dont feel bad.. im not exactly a master at getting my point accross

No I am not but as I said given time there will be a great many things that will be understood, but not by religion.

HMM...frauds and forgeries in religion.

But you just said frauds and forgeries of religion.....

Possible you say? If it was king David palace all that means is that the kings name was David. Who's to say it is the david from the Bible?

I'm talking about discoveries of frauds and forgeries- like The "Shroud Of Turin" and the "James- Brother Of Jesus Box" stuff like that. Its found that not everything discovered is official and genuine, but when it is...it IS.

Thats pretty funny. All that means is the Kings Name Is David? Ummm...how about its in the same area of David at the same time and with inscriptions that say "House Of David- "King Of Israel"- what more proof do you want i mean REALLY..Right now we have before us two things: We have a biblical text describing in detail the creation of a Phoenician-style palace by David high up on a particular mountain, around the end of the 11th or beginning of the 10 Century B.C.E. And we have a grand structure of the Phoenician style dating from the same time, on the summit of that very mountain, located with assistance from the text and previous archeological discoveries. This was not stumbled upon, moreover, but carefully hypothesized, and the current dig was proposed as the test. The likelihood of this happening by chance is extremely small. This is neither wishful thinking nor an imagined past, but good science.

Again, if you follow science and dont agree with their findings- then you are also a "blind believer" .... Cause you are ignoring their finds- and only accepting what you want to accept.

There are no degrees of how much something has been proven. Its either been proven, or not.

We are speaking of time and questioning if it is infinite or terminal. I believe, for example, that the present does not exist. What I write now has already faded into the past and what I think to write rests within the future. In the unmeasureably small micro-second used to actually write is in constant transition, forcing the future to collide with and feed the past. In the spark of that collision is where we live and perhaps it is the very spark of life. For me to believe that this process is endless and always existed is not at all difficult.

Given that time is invariant, wouldn't it make more sense that the past and future do not exist? To begin with, the past has already happened, and you cannot change it. Plus, it isn't a location, so it is not in existence. And since the future hasn't happened yet either, it would be fair to say that the present exists, since we are experiencing it presently.

So there's nothing in between? Cough when you're in the process of proving something cough.


Anyway, I've never dismissed science. I just don't like alot of scientists attitudes when they seem to overestimate science. I would never be a scientist myself though, I don't want to lose my social side of me. =D Learning about the universe takes too much time off me being social. =D

The bible talks about different scientific facts that people did not know at the time the bible was written. That's pretty interesting to me.

hey zero, what 'facts' are you refering too?

do not forget that man has faced setbacks and hence there have been times where knowledge was lost. The 'dark ages' is a favorite around here. Do not forget how the early church burned libraries, thus leaving it the ONLY souce (or so it desired, but failed) of knowledge. It was easy enough for the men in control of the bible and society to manipulate both to lend credence to their religion. (and before you comment back on how the same can happen with science, yes it can be attempted but open peer reviews allow for the eventual discovery of such frauds unlike the bible)

Source 1

Source 2

Source 3

Source Fo'

Source for ya momma

I would agree except that there are marked registrations of the past and future. The past is recorded and verified while the future exists within our thoughts, plans, dreams and designs. The future, however, is so instantaneous and non-existant that it cannot be recorded or given a character.

But the present still exists...

Hmm, how would you explain what the present is? Does it exist for a mere millisecond then stop existing because it turns into the past, when a new present appears the next millisecond.

:: confuzzled ::

Time doesn't actually flow, so the past and future do not exist. And perhaps you can say the "present" doesn't exist if you believe all time is is just a measurement of perception. Or just an effect of your brain or nervous system.

zero...

that was not the 'knowledge' i was expecting you to produce.\

there are two things you need to consider:
- quotes that are consistant with science do not demonstrate understanding. there are many statements completely inconsistant with science as well. now a question for you is how much detail is needed for a statement to show an understanding compared to a simple observation or guess. How much is the modern reader reading into the book due to their own bias.
- as stated before, the creators of the bible were privy to earlier knowledge what was subsequently destroyed (due to the creators of the NT). Passing on ancient 'understandings' does nothing to lend credibility to the book itself.

Now we agree. Time depends upon perception and for that reason I accept the past as an entity of time because it can be recorded, reviewed and documented. The present and future cannot be.

Who's just making an observation or guess?

So, you're saying that we knew of all these scientific ideas before, but they were "lost" before the bible was written and the people who wrote the bible used those "lost" ideas? And later on scientist did not discover these things, but "re-found" them?

Can you please sum up with your saying in a nut-shell, my brain isn't working too great right now XD.

How are they only ancient understandings when they fit perfectly with what science beleives today. I guess that can only be an opinion(It being ancient "understandings").

Then if it all depends on perception, then time doesn't really exist at all, except in our minds. Time seems to go fast when you're having fun. In reality, it isn't for everyone else.