Hello everyone! I just wanted to let you all in on a little secret. Now this secret takes a little bit of reading to be revealed, so please be patient and make yourself comfortable, and dedicate a few minutes to find out who your God really is.

A ROSE IS STILL A ROSE, IS STILL A ROSE, BY ANY OTHER NAME!

SOURCE OF MATERIAL:What's in A Name?

Now let's all see if we can all work our way through this mix up with names?


YeshaYah (Isaiah) 52:6 " Therefore My people shall know MY NAME: therefore they shall know in that day that I am HE that doth speak: behold, it is I." The Israelites took naming persons and places much more seriously than we do today. To them a name was not just a label provided for convenience in distinguishing one person from another. A name was an essential part of the person so named. Names should be appropriate, for the person's name was regarded as a sort of duplicate of counterpart of it's bearer; there was believed to be a mystical relationship between name and the thing named. The name was conceived as influencing its bearer, and the name revealed something to a person who was told it. This was not a unique approach to naming, but one that prevailed among many ancient Near Eastern peoples. Harper's Encyclopedia of Bible Life

Speak, I pray you, to your servants in the Syrian language;
for we understand it:
and talk not with us in the Jews' language
The Jews, who had the greater part of their numbers dispersed in foreign lands by force or emigration, had lost their language. Even at the time of the Fall of Jerusalem (587 B.C.) Hebrew was losing out to Aramaic as the language of ordinary communication. In the next (6th) century, under Persian rule, Aramaic became the common language of the Scripture speaking peoples. The next conquerors of Palestine were the Greeks. Though the Greek culture was strongly pushed as a policy of the Seleucid kings, Aramaic remained the language of the Palestinian people until the Mohammedans conquered the region in the 7th century A.D. and introduced Arabic. Harper's Encyclopedia of Bible Life

YAHWEH
YAHWEH, the proper Name of the ABBA (FATHER) of Yisrael; it is composed of four consonants (YHWH) in Hebrew and is therefore called the tetragrammaton. The Name was first revealed to Moshe (Ex. 3), but the ABBA of Moshe was the Almighty of the fathers (Ex. 3:6, 15), known to the Israelites as EI Shaddai (Ex. 6:2-3). In the Scriptures the NAME YAHWEH is derived from the verbal root "to be," "to exist," and means "He who is" (Ex. 3:14 ff.). The Name YAHWEH later ceased to be used by the Jews for two somewhat contradictory reasons. As Judaism began to become a universal religion, the proper Name YAHWEH tended to be replaced by the common noun Elohim, meaning "God," which could apply to foreign deities and therefore could be used to demonstrate the universal sovereignty of Yisrael's God over all others. At the same time, the divine Name was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered, for fear of profanation, and in the synagogue ritual it was replaced by Adonai ("my Lord"), which was translated Kyrios ("Lord") in the Septuagint. The occurrence of the four sacred letters in the text of the Scripture itself could not be thus replaced, but the same fear of profanation caused the Masoretes (6th-8th centuries A.D.) to change the pronunciation by replacing the vowels (which in Hebrew are marked beneath or above the consonants if not omitted altogether) with the vowels of Adonai (or, more rarely, the vowels of Elohim). This accounts for the form Jehovah, an artificial name with the consonants of YAHWEH and the vowels of Adonai (the initial "j" representing the Hebrew consonantal "i" which is also transliterated as "y"; the "e" representing the indeterminate Hebrew vowel which appears as "a" in the initial letter of Adonai; and the "v" being alternative to "w"). After 1518, when the Franciscan Petrus Gelatinous argued in favor of the form Jehovah, it appeared in translations of the Old Covenant, but English versions in most cases preferred to follow the Septuagint in translating the Hebrew YAHWEH by the periphrasis "the LORD" instead of transliterating it as Jehovah. With the new critical scholarship of the 19th and 20th centuries the more correct YAHWEH has gradually gained ground.
Parts of above from the ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA 1968 vol. 23 pg. 867.

In the above definition, the word "Elohim" does not mean "God". The true meaning of "Elohim" is " The Almighty One of Oaths and Promises Who is Faithful". Also, the word "Adonai" does not mean "Lord". But the English word that most describes Him is YAHWEH. This above definition shows that they know the Name YAHWEH; and have changed all these words to exonerate the god of this world. The word "divine" should not be used to describe His Name The scripture does not use the word "divine" in describing His Name. His Name is Qodesh (holy), SetApart. It should read "the SetApart Name".

YAHWEH (ya' we) A modern transliteration of the Hebrew word translated Jehovah in the Bible; - used by some critics to discriminate the tribal god of the ancient Hebrews from the Christian Jehovah. SEE TETRAGRAMMATON Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (1959)

While inclined to view the pronunciation YAHWEH as the more correct way, we have retained the form Jehovah because of people's familiarity with it since the 14th Century. The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures (The Jehovah Witnesses), The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. (page 23)

God
God In Western culture the word God generally refers to one supreme holy being who is believed to have created the entire universe, to rule over it, and to bring it to its fulfillment. In the Old Covenant, God was called YHWH, pronounced YAHWEH by most scholars; the exact pronunciation of the Name was lost because it was rarely enunciated. In its place was read Adonai ("Lord"). The written combination of the tetragrammaton YHWH with the vowels of Adonai was traditionally rendered as Jehovah in English Scriptures. YHWH is frequently translated as "He who is" and probably designates YHWH as creator. In ISLAM, ALLAH stands for a similar notion. Thus, the word God refers to the object of WORSHIP, PRAYER, and religious MEDITATION. God also has been the object of religious and philosophical reflection, the supreme object of THEOLOGY. Parts of above from: GROLIER ENCYCLOPEDIA ed. 8 pg. 336 under God

God 1. A being of more than human attributes and powers; a deity, esp. a male deity; anything worshiped by man as a deity. 2. An idol. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (1959)

Only fear YAHWEH, and serve HIM in truth with all your heart:
for consider how great things HE has done for you.
JEHOVAH
JEHOVAH, an erroneous rendering of the name of the God of Israel. The error arose among Christians in the middle ages through combining the consonants Yhwh (Jhwh) with the vowels of Adonai, “Lord” which the Jews in reading the Scriptures substituted for the sacred name, commonly called the tetragrammaton, as containing four consonants. See YAHWEH. From reference: ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA vol. 12 pg. 991 under Jehovah,

JEHOVAH, [Hebrew usually Yehowah; prob. properly Yahweh] a Christian form given to the Tetragrammaton. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (1959)

The name Jehovah is, of course, an English word which is based on the Masorete's choice of writing. They so revered this holy name that they wrote the vowels of the word signifying Lord (adonai) with the consonants of the name which God gave to Himself, JHWH, resulting in Jehovah or as some prefer to render it, Yahweh, the consonants being in the Hebrew properly transliterated YHWH. In the history of the English language, however, the letter J has a written counterpart in the German J, although the letter J in German is pronounced like an English Y. The bulk of theological studies having come from German sources, there has been an intermixed usage in English of the J and the Y. Our English translations of the Bible reflect this, so we have chosen to use J, thus Jehovah, rather than Yahweh, because this is established English usage for Biblical names beginning with this Hebrew letter. No one suggests that we ought to change Jacob, Joseph, Jehoshaphat, Joshua, etc. to begin with a Y, and neither should we at this late date change Jehovah to Yahweh. The Interlinear Bible, Jay P. Green, Sr.

"The pronunciation Jehovah was unknown until 1520, when it was introduced by Galatinus; but was contested by Le Mercier, J. Drusius, and L. Capellus, as against grammatical and historical propriety." (Oxford Gensenius, P. 218.) Next, as to formation. "Erroneously written and pronounced Jehovah which is merely a combination of the sacred Tetragrammaton and the vowels in the Hebrew for Lord, substituted by the Jews (Yahdaim) for JHVH (YHWH), because they shrank from pronouncing The Name, owing to an old misconception of the two passages (Exodus xx. 7 and Leviticus xxiv. 16) ...To give the name JHVH the vowels of the word for Lord (Heb. Adonai) and pronounce it Jehovah is about as hybrid a combination as it would be to spell the name Germany with the vowels in the name Portugal-viz., Gormuna...Jehovah is not older than about 1520 c.e." The Book Of YAHWEH Yisrayl Hawkins

LORD
LORD is an English title of honor or dignity that is used in different senses.
From THE ENCYCLOPEDIA AMERICANA vol. 17 pg. 739 LORD:

LORD [AS. halford, for halfweard, i.e., bread keeper, fr. half bread, loaf + weard keeper, guard.] 1. One who has power and authority, as headship or leadership; a master; ruler. 2.[cap.] a. The Supreme Being; Jehovah. b. The Saviour; Jesus Christ. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (1959)

The Elohim
For the ancient Hebrews "divinities (elohim) dwelt in nature and in the sky. Different tribes each had particular deities who were especially concerned with their affairs."
- Ninian Smart, The Religious Experience of Mankind

"...The geologist Christian O'Brien argued that these [ancient Hebrew and Sumerian] texts describe a race of beings called Shining Ones - his translation of the Hebrew word Elohim. These beings created modern humans from earlier human forms by genetic manipulation. Some of these beings, called Watchers, mated with humans, and this was considered a crime by the Shining Ones. One of the Watchers was named Shemjaza, and Yahweh was one of the Shining Ones. O'Brien argued that the Shining Ones were superior but mortal beings of unknown origin."
- Richard L. Thompson, Alien Identities - Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena

"When the gods created Mankind
Death for Mankind they allotted,
Life they retained in their own keeping."
- The Epic of Gilgamesh

"The Elohim originally included not only foreign superstitious forms, but also all that host of Heaven which was revealed in poetry to the shepherds of the desert, now as an encampment of warriors, nor as careering in chariots of fire, and now as winged messengers, ascending and descending the vault of Heaven, to communicate the will of God to mankind."
- General Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...."
- Genesis 1:26

"In the clay god and Man shall be bound, to a unity brought together;
So that to the end of days
the Flesh and the Soul
which in a god have ripened -
that Soul in a blood-kinship be bound."
- Sumerian creation story, Encyclopedia Britannica

The creators (Elohim) outline in the second hour 'the shape of a more corporeal form of man. They separate it into two and prepare the sexes to become distinct from each other. Such is the way the Elohim proceeded in reference to every created thing."
- Eliphas Levi, The Nuctameron of the Hebrews

"...The androgynous constitution of the Elohim is disclosed in the next verse, where he (referring to God) is said to have created man in his own image, male and female; or, more properly, as the division of the sexes had not yet taken place, male-female....This definitive reference to a humanity existing prior to the 'creation of man' described in Genesis must be evident to the most casual reader of Scripture."
- Manly P. Hall, Masonic, Hermetic, Quabbalistic & Rosicrucian Symbolical Philosophy

"...The sons of gods (bene ha-elohim) saw the daughters of men that they were fair..."
- Genesis 6:2a

"Other Elohim are occasionally mentioned throughout the older parts of the Old Testament. The most important of them is Baal, usually translated as the Owner. In the Canaan of the times, there were many Owners, one to each village, in the same way that many Catholic cities today have their own Virgin Marys, and yet they are all the same one."
- Julian Jaynes, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind

Not all scholars accept the plural nature of the Elohim.
"Biblical Hebrew occasionally employs something scholars call the 'majestic plural'. In effect it is a plural ending added to a deity's name to confer status or majesty. In the Old Testament the best example is Elohim which does not mean 'the gods' but is rather the god El with the majestic plural im appended."
- David M. Rohl, A Test of Time: The Bible from Myth to History (1993), p. 228

Boy that took some reading.

Question. So to get Jehovah from YAHWEH they took the consonants YHWH add the vowels of Adonia Which gives you Y a H o W a H. J from the German translation, V being an alternative to W Now gives us J a H o V a H. So what happened to the i and second a in Adonia, sorry just found the second 'a' hebrew vowel for e. Then that just leaves the 'I'. Not being picky just interested.

actually, the Creator is so much more than we, that he has non "man-made" name and needs none! We only"puff our egos up" and assume that he even wants to be named or worshipped.

it actually comes from Hebrew which is spelled; י (yod) ה (heh) ו (vav) ה (heh) or יהוה (YHWH)

According to one Jewish tradition, the Tetragrammaton is related to the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Hebrew verb הוה (ha·wah, "to be, to become"), meaning "He will cause to become" (usually understood as "He causes to become"). Compare the many Hebrew and Arabic personal names which are 3rd person singular imperfective verb forms starting with "y", e.g. Hebrew Yôsêph = Arabic Yazîd = "He [who] adds"; Hebrew Yiḥyeh = Arabic Yahyâ = "He [who] lives".

Another tradition regards the name as coming from three different verb forms sharing the same root YWH, the words HYH haya [היה]: "He was"; HWH howê [הוה]: "He is"; and YHYH yihiyê [יהיה]: "He will be". This is supposed to show that God is timeless. Other interpretations include the name as meaning "I am the One Who Is." This can be seen in the traditional Jewish account of the "burning bush" commanding Moses to tell the sons of Israel that "I AM [אהיה] has sent you." (Exodus 3:13-14) Some suggest: "I AM the One I AM" [אהיה אשר אהיה]. This may also fit the interpretation as "He Causes to Become." Many scholars believe that the most proper meaning may be "He Brings Into Existence Whatever Exists".

But yeah i agree being arrogant enough to actually say NONONO THIS IS HIS NAME, is pretty mental imo.

It's not really "Yaweh" either. Why? The name is supposed to be unpronounceable, therefore, it shouldn't have any vowels. So the name (Roman letters) is IHVH. It is said that the most powerful thing you can do in magic, is to pronounce the true name of God. And Jehova, etc, are just mispronunciations.

Remember in the movie Warlock. If the warlock pronounced the true name of god backwards, then creation would be reversed. It was a cool movie. Off topic , I know.Sorry.

lol
Never saw that film, but now that you mention it, supposedly you can undo creations with the Tetragrammaton. Not sure if it can go in reverse in real life. But in my opinion, words are very powerful. Language is like a spell. The consonants control the vowels, etc. It was taboo in Jewish tradition to pronounce the name of God. For the most part they say Adonai, amongst many other names.

There is no secret here. G-d has no name. G-d is a belief in the representation of All Things. If G-d had a name, it would limit that representation.

And just to throw something else against the wall to see if it sticks, many Kabbalist scholars argue that there is a 216-character string in the Torah that is the true "name" of G-d.

Interestingly enough, in the book the God Code, the ancient name of God is supposedly encoded in our DNA. So the name of God is really us, or at least partially. It had a lot more meaning than a Higher Power. It had to do with magic, creation, etc.

Mrs. Doubtfire, multi-posting the same thing over and over and over is extremely annoying, considering spamming and is against the forum rules. Check my message about it coming your way shortly.

All the posts have been removed.

burnside namaste Sheri

I totally agree with you here mako And I as a believer give Him the honorary title of "God" much the same as I address my father as "dad" rather than his given name its out of respect for his position.
Irish

The true name of God is forever a mystery. In the testament of Solomon, Beelzebub talks about it briefly when he is summoned. Beelzebub being Satans second / third in line as ruler of hell is the Prince of Demons alongside Belial. This is as follows in the testament of Solomon.

"Then I said, 'Tell me which angel thwarts you.' 'The Almighty God,' he replied. 'He is called by the Hebrews Patike, the one who descends from the heights' he is (called) by the Greeks Emmanouel. I am always afraid of him, and trembling. If anyone adjures me with the oath (called) 'the Elo-i', a great name for his power, I disappear." - TSol 6:8

Another manuscript (MS P) of the passage found includes the numeric sum of the name of God. The letters translate as follows. E = 5, m = 40, m = 40, a = 1, n = 50, o = 70, u = 400, e = 8, l = 30. Obviously it spells out emmanouel as his name.

"I, said to him, 'Tell me by what angel you are thwarted.' And he replied, 'By the holy and precious name of the almighty God, the one called by the Hebrews by a row of numbers, or which the sum is 644, and among the Greeks, it is Emmanouel. And if one of the Romans adjure me by the great name of power, Eleeth, I disappear. " - TSol 6:8 MS P
Finally, Beelzeboul informs Solomon about heavenly things.

well, you don't see it often, but i agree in principle with you and maco.

If a 'creator of all' existed, (which is where i disagree with you two), it would be far beyond the needs/wants many think it would have, and any 'title' a mere human in comparison could provide would be but a shadow of what it really is.

YHWH is just an epithet meaning "i am that i am" in hebrew, that name was used to tell moses to stop asking questions. Saying Yahweh in hebrew was like God telling moses that he didnt need to know his name and only needed to do as he was told. God has no real name, he has only titles such as god of jacob, lord of hosts, El (god in hebrew) and so on.

Greetings everyone I see that you are all arguing about names here, as you would normally do about any other thing that I post. The point is this: THE NAME IS OF NO IMPORTANCE!

It is just a way of pointing out to you all that from the earliest scriptures known to man, there was a name of an "Extra Terrestrial Person" whose name was unpronounceable and this so called "Creator” (YHWV)? Claimed to have made man in his own image, along with the other so called god's from his part of the universe where these creators are known as the Elohim.

You see I am not arguing about what name is correct here and what name is not. I really don’t care. The thing that I am pointing out to you is (seeing I have to spell it out).

This "Creator or Creator's" Were ALL ELOHIM (Meaning: "Those Who Came From the Sky")

So the reason that I replied to you with the same answer is because: Just as a rose is still a rose by any other name, the same goes for anything or one. A carpenter is still a carpenter by any other name, A Donkey is still a Donkey by any other name, An Extra Terrestrial Creator is still the same being who has created life on Earth in his image, by any other name.

You see when one starts to focus and argue on minute things like a name for instance, one tends to loose sight of the bigger picture as to what the confusion was about in the first place. The answers to your questions are not to be found with the churches or the Raelians or your governments or anyone else. The answers to most questions one may have lay dormant within each and every one of us. Do you know how to seek and find the truth which lies within?

Kindness and best regard's to you all!

are you so certian about 'the earliest' claim you make?

and who created the spacemen? just out of curiosity (given your dislike for science).

Thanks for your questions.

Yes hyperactive I am certain about the claim that I make that the majority of people in this world worship and bow down to "whatever you want to call him: The reason for my certainty is this: Most people who worship (YHWV???) Say that his son J.C. gave HIS LIFE for the sin's of the world, and the other entire prophet's were also sent by the Elohim creators as well. The Elohim do not claim to be gods, but say that to gain the respect of our early civilizations that they created, on their return to the Earth; they made themselves out to be God's. Furthermore with their advanced science, they were able to cure people, and also perform feats which were considered as miracles by their primitive observers.

Now for your second part to the question: The Elohim does not pretend to be God under normal circumstances. (Meaning that when talking to people who understand science, they say that they are not god's, but rather a humanity which has acquired the scientific secrets which were passed on to them, when this race of their creators came to the end of their time on their planet, for whatever reason). So in essence the torch (so to speak) was passed on to the created to enable them to become the creator's. The Elohim claim that they do not know who or what the prime creative power, or god or whatever was, and they are still searching themselves to find these answers. So I will not pretend to know the answer to this omen because I don't, but whatever the answer is, the fact is still that our current religions are based on worship for the Elohim (incorporated) what ever you choose to call this advanced race.

This in essence is what these creators wish to do with us, to pass on this eternal torch of life, so that in turn their created, will also in turn become the creator's. But the hold up is for them to come and meet with us, the hostility and materialism and lack of kindness and love for one another. This does not show intelligence to our creators, and thus they feel that at this point in time they can not trust us with the secrets of a science which is advanced to ours by about 30,000 years. They fear that we will use it to create even more havoc on Earth. Could one blame them?

Now my dislike for science: Science should and will one day be our only religion! It is the way forward, and our reason why we are living longer lives to what our forefathers lived only 300 years ago. In that time the normal life expectancy was about 40 years, in this era it has doubled that figure! So what will we be able of accomplishing within the next century? If we don't blow ourselves with it away first that is!


P.S. Just to comment on another post that I have seen on the 144,000 to be saved from the destruction.

What this means is that the true believers in the Elohim will be saved by them if our society becomes so intent on having wars and destroying everyone on Earth with this nuclear cataclysm. The "Chosen One's" in the Elohims eyes used to be the Jews, but because they choose to keep the teachings onto themselves, they were driven out of their land and made to roam the desert for so many years, to learn the error of their way. The Elohim now say that if they still refuse to grant the land required establishing an Embassy for them to return, they will once again be dispersed and loose their land. The Raelians are the new chosen race by the Elohim, and that is why the numbers are steadily growing, as people come to realize this fact.

Peace and kindness to those who do not agree with my beliefs! This is why we are on the 'only planet of choice', to enable us all to be different, but choose who or what you follow wisely, because one day we will all be judged for our actions. How do you think you will go?

Just to play for the wrong team in this debate, I'm curious - when Moses asks God to give him a name to give to the Israelite's, He states "I AM WHO I AM. Tell the people I AM sent you" (exodus 3).

In other words - mind your own business? Did God have something to hide perhaps??????

Regards, PA

Good question!

P.A. The answer to this question is this: "The Creator wears no labels, and for that matter nor do I" To say "I am" means that one knows who he is, and is quite comfortable in knowing and loving and having respect for himself as a person.

To elaborate further on this, if we were to look at our own societies, and ask the people of this world the same question, they would reply with some of the following answers: "I am a plumber", "I am rich", "I have a $20,000.000 apartment", I am the image of my powerful car", "I am a sex maniac", "I am a doctor". (if that is the case why havent you cured everyone)? So you see, most of us relate ourselves as to the limitations that we place ourselves in. So to say "I am"! means that we know who WE are, and not the material possesions which people tend to identify themselves with.

Really? Proof plz.



And how do you know it was an ET that created life on Earth? Proof plz.

Stellar I don't know what it is that you did not understand, after I asked people to read the following carefully at the introduction to this topic.

If you choose not to believe any of it that is fine, and that goes for anyone else also reading these facts, who wish not to believe them. It is your choice what you wish to believe and I would not want that to be any other way. I put up this post so that people are made aware of the information available, and what you or they, make of it is totally your own choice. The last thing I would ever try to do is to force anyone into believing what I say. We are all our own free selves. But the point I am trying to make is this: If this god or god's created us in their own image, how many humans have we witnessed living in clouds? Or how many humans have been seen anywhere in the universe just floating around in an environment which is inhospitable to humans in every way? Now my belief would be that these human like creators would have to come from another planet where the atmosphere could sustain their life. What cloud do you belive God lives on?

Its not about whether I believe it or not, its about you either providing proof that your belief is right, or you stop saying your belief is fact and start admitting that its a belief and can quite probably be wrong.



I dont believe in god.

Yes Stellar I see your point, and the facts that these extraterrestrial "god's" exist have been under our very own noses for centuries, but have not started to be dawned on until more recent times, when one has been able to walk out of the dark ages (one would hope) and into the age of science. For you to totally ignore the evidence of these "god's" which is written in literature, and depicted in early art and the bible, where beings (space suited humans) are seen to be rising and descending into the heavens in vaults, or wheels within wheels etc. etc. If we look at the 1710 painting, painted by Flemish artist Aert De Gelder depicts a classic, hovering, silvery, saucer shaped UFO shining beams of light down on John the Baptist and Jesus being baptised. (Pictured Below). Remember this was painted in 1710!!!?

One only has to look at this evidence from the ages to NOW UNDERSTAND the true meanings of these facts of which in the days they were presented did not make sense to the presenters, other than they being supernatural gods.

I ask you: "Just how far has the mass populous moved on from our times of being 'hunter gatherers' to now, when it comes to using some intelligent focus on the facts which were presented then"? At least these primitive people had a genuine excuse to be dumb of the reality, but to someone in today's scientific age of knowing what a disc depicted in a cave painting or gods in space suits there is no reason left for this backward thinking to still exist. Unless of course one chooses to be still comfortable in holding onto that belief. That choice my friend is yours and yours alone. Good luck with your hunting!


Source of article:
Click Here Dear...

UFOs and Extraterrestrials - A problem for the Church?
Monsignore Corrado Balducci, Rome

original source:
Summary: Msgr. Balducci is one of the best-known and most respected Italian theologians. We publish his paper for the first time in an English translation. It is indeed noteworthy, since it is the very first detailed statement of a senior Roman Catholic theologian and Curia member on the UFO phenomenon. More than that, it demonstrates the openness of the Roman Catholic church in this question and can be considered the first ever complex positive statement regarding the UFO/ET reality from the point of view of a major world religion - with its over 1 Billion faithful, the RC Church is indeed the largest religious community on Earth.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Monsignor Corrado Balducci
author's bio



“The Lord certainly did not limit His glory to this small Earth. On other planets other beings exist who did not sin and fall as we did."
- St. Padre Pio of Pietrelcina (1887-1968), canonized June 16, 2002

Msgr. Balducci is one of the best-known and most respected Italian theologians. The Roman priest and Curia member served the Holy See as a diplomat and member of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples ("Propaganda Fide"). He is an expert on demonology and parapsychology, was for several years the exorcist of the diocese of Rome, the Pope’s diocese. Msgr. Balducci wrote several books, including the bestseller "Il Diavolo" (the Devil) which reached 14 print runs in the hardcover edition. Furthermore he is a regular guest in the Italian State TV (Rai Due), where he made several statements on the UFO phenomenon since 1995. He spoke on the UFO congresses in Acapulco and San Marino. We publish his paper for the first time in an English translation. It is indeed noteworthy, since it is the very first detailed statement of a senior Roman Catholic theologian and Curia member on the UFO phenomenon. More than that, it demonstrates the openness of the Roman Catholic church in this question and can be considered the first ever complex positive statement regarding the UFO/ET reality from the point of view of a major world religion - with its over 1 Billion faithful, the RC Church is indeed the largest religious community on Earth. Note that since the first Balducci-statement also H.H., the Dalai Lama (for Tibetan Buddhism), several Jewish rabbis in Israel and, in 2001, the Muslim authorities of Turkey followed with positive statements on this subject. Therefore it can be said that UFOs are not only “no problem” for the largest Christian church, but also for other world religions.

Please note:

-I use the acronym UFO (Unidentified Flying Object) in the wider sense as a synonym for the existence of extraterrestrial beings;
-I participate in this debate under the premise that the described UFO phenomena are real. This is not in contradiction to the Christian Faith, a position to which most theologians would agree.

I. UFOs: THERE MUST BE SOMETHING TRUE ABOUT THEM - everybody must come to this conclusion who approaches the question of extraterrestrial life with similar individual, social and religious structures as we developed them, with reason and common sense.
There is a great and constantly growing number of eyewitness testimony about the so-called "flying saucers", spacecraft and Extraterrestrials. Many of these eyewitnesses are highly qualified observers with a profound education, who did not believe in them before they had their personal encounter. On November 4, 1988, Mrs. Fioschini, TV host of the program "Misteri" on RAI Due, stated: "There are thousands of persons in all the world who claim that they saw a UFO at least once, and many even claim a contact with their crews." On this base it can no longer be denied that there is indeed something true about them. Any scepticism would be completely unjustified und unreasonable! Of course some eyewitness reports are based on imagination, hallucination or external influence. In other instances they were caused by atmospheric phenomena, lenticular clouds or ball lightning. Again others turned out to be state-of-the-art aircraft types of the Americans and Russians, tested during the Cold War. Already during World War II, sighted UFOs were thought to be the secret weapon of the enemy. But all this is not enough to explain a great part of the eyewitness testimony and the UFO phenomenon itself. Even the most careful investigation can only reduce the number of real cases and sift the chaff from the wheat, but can never explain them all satisfactorily, as the past has taught us.

In many countries professional or semi-professional organizations investigate UFO sightings in cooperation with scientists and experts to separate explainable from unidentifiable cases. In France there is the governmental SEPRA, in Italy the "National Ufological Center" CUN, which exists for nearly 40 years and is headed by Dr. Roberto Pinotti, or, since 5 years, the CIFAS (Council of International Federation of Advanced Studies), founded by Airforce General Salvatore Marcheletti, which investigates the position of man in space.

Let me add one more important point: The general a priori-scepticism, the systematic, total denial, damages, even destroys the basic value of the human testimony with grave and incalculable consequences, since it is indeed the fundament of human society, if individual, social or religious. Of course there is always one or the other exemption, there are errors and lies, but generally all our life is based on what we learned from others. It is unthinkable to live without this basic confidence, unimaginable are the consequences of a general negation of the human experience on the individual, social and religious life. It would destroy the very fundament of any human society!

This applies to the religious life, too. Indeed the Christian religion is based on the testimony of humans who became witnesses of God´s revelation in historical events. In 1937, the theologian and Jesuit Father Herbert Thurston stated: "On one point of the logic view the Christian accepts the miracle reports of the Gospels ... our complete apologetic concept bases on the trust in the veracity of the Gospels." (La Chiesa e lo Spiritismo, Milano 1937, o.179). Therefore is "the systematic demolition and defamation of the human testimony, the simple reduction on dates and facts, contradictory to our Faith in the historicity of the Gospels and therefore indirectly to the faith in the Christian revelation." (p. 157)

II. THEOLOGICAL AND BIBLICAL REMARKS ABOUT THE INHABITABILITY OF OTHER PLANETS

Let me state very clearly: We can exclude that angels use spaceships. As purely spiritual beings, angels can project themselves at any place they want to reach and, in rare instances, when they want to reveal themselves, take a visible form without any difficulty. The same is certain for the defunct. When the Holy Virgin wants to reveal Herself to Mankind (as it happened in rare, well-documented cases) she chose forms in which She can express Her love and care as a mother and Her motherly compassion with us. We don´t even have to waste a thought on the devil and his demons, who still kept their angelic nature, being fallen angels and therefore also purely spiritual beings, since they are limited in their activity by God and therefore not able to bring all their hatred to us. "If the devil would take the initiative, not a single living being would remain on Earth", St. Augustine wrote. (ML37, 1246). St. Bonaventura added: "The cruelty of the demon is so immense that he could swallow us any moment, if we were not under divine protection." ("Diaeta ssalutis", tit.7,c.1, Verona 1748, S.183)

When we talk about "Extraterrestrials", we refer to humanoid beings which are, like us, of both, a spiritual and a material nature, a physical body (for which to move they indeed need spacecraft), although in their case the relationship between mind and matter might be a different one than in our case. For this, we do not have scientific evidence yet, although we are approaching this question slowly thanks to an increasing number of careful studies and research. In regards to the biblical and theological aspect of this question, let me state:

1. It is very well possible that other inhabited planets exist. We do not find any direct reference to extraterrestrial life in the Bible, but it neither excludes their existence. Since God's wisdom and omnipotence has no limits and is infinite indeed, this possibility doubtlessly exists.

2. The existence of other inhabited planets is highly probable. The distance between the angels, purely spiritual beings, and us, beings of spirit and matter, body and soul is too large. Our soul cannot act without the body, its unalterable means, which through its passions and sinfulness influences the soul so deeply that man becomes unstable and rather tends toward the bad than towards the good.
Therefore it is highly probable that in between, between us and the angels, another life form exists, namely beings which still have a physical body but one which is more perfect than ours and influences the soul less in its intelligent acts and intentions. This assumption is confirmed by the ancient principle defined by Lucrezio Caro as "Natura non favit saltus" (The Nature makes no jumps, see "De rerum natura"), still quoted by theologians.

We find another thought regarding the infinity of the creation and the Glory of God in Psalm 18 (19): "The heavens declare the glory of God". Only man can consciously worship God, because of his free will and intelligence. Therefore several theologians consider it not only possible but very probable that out there in Space, unreachable for our scientific instruments, other beings exist who recognize and venerate God since they realized this as the reason and meaning of their world and the creation itself.

The Jesuit Father P. Domenico Grasso, a theologian of the Pontifical University "Gregoriana" in Rome, stated: "Why should all the perfection, God gave so richly to the Universe, be hidden and should not declare His glory? Who writes a book and is sure that it will never be read? Who paints a painting and hides it thereafter, and nobody can see it?". Then he quotes the German theologian Joseph Pohle, who wrote in his book of 1904 ("Die Sternenwelt und ihre Bewohner" - "The celestial realms and their inhabitants", Cologne 1904, p. 457): "It seems to be the purpose of the Universe that the celestial bodies are inhabited by beings who reflect the glory of God in the beauty of their bodies and worlds as man does, in a limited way, in his world." But they are no angels, Father Grasso added, since angels are purely spiritual beings and can perceive matter only indirectly, just as we can only indirectly perceive the world of the spirit.

3.The inhabitability of other planets is not only possible and probable, but also desirable. In the future, even in a far-distant-one, their possible inhabitants, if they are indeed superior to us, can help and support us in our spiritual development. In this way, which we cannot prove, they might have helped and protected us already in the past.
If indeed intelligent beings exist on other planets, their existence might very well be correlated with the Salvation through Christ. It is certain that Christ is the center and head of the creation or universe, as St. Paul already stated (Col. 1, 16-17). Therefore there exists no world which is not related to Him. As the Word Incarnate, He has, as the Bible confirms, an influence on every possible inhabited planet. To quote the Apostle: "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on Earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things and in Him all things consist... For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell. And by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross." (Col. 1, 16-20

The Church celebrates the last Sunday of the Liturgical Year (in November) as the Feast of Christ the King, and in its liturgy Christ is clearly defined as the king of the Universe, remembering the universality of His kingdom, which is also expressed in the daily Mass.

III. SOME CONFIRMING STATEMENTS

There exist several interesting statements on the inhabitability of other worlds by lay scientists, theologians or servants of God which already qualified for a process of beatification or canonization. Beginning with the laymen, let me quote the great French scientist Charles Richter (1850-1935), the founder of Metapsychics (today called Parapsychology). He was a materialist. In 1922, in his "Traite de Metapsychique", he stated: "Do we have any right to claim, just because of our limited senses and our mistaken intelligence, that man is the only intelligent being in this immense cosmos? ... That other intelligences, different from us, exist, is not only possible but extremely probable. It is absurd to claim that we are the only intelligence in nature... the existence of these beings cannot be proven, but the probability of their existence is evident."

Among the theologians I want to refer to, are:

1. Cardinal Nikolaus Cusanus (1401-1464). He stated: "We are not authorized to exclude that on another star beings exist which are completely different from us."
2. The Jesuit Father and astronomer Fr. Angelo Secchi (1818-1876) wrote: "It is absurd to claim that the worlds surrounding us are large, uninhabited worlds and that the meaning of the universe lies just in our small, inhabited planet."
3. The famous Dominican preacher Jacques-Marie-Louis Monsabre (1827-1907) referred to the principle "Natura non facit saltus" when he claimed that other intelligent beings besides men and angels exist.
4. The already quoted English Jesuit Father Herbert Thurston wrote: "Who can claim that there are no other intelligent beings besides angels, demons and men in the Universe? I do not intend to confirm the possibility I indicated in my question as a fact, but I ask: Who can be sure about it."

Of the servants of God either qualified for a beatification or just canonized, I only want to refer:

1. The Salesian Father and Servant of God Don Andrea Beltrami (1870-1897) who prayed also for the inhabitants of other planets. Of the 16 booklets he wrote, one is said to deal with this topic; unfortunately they were not published yet by the Father Postulator of his cause.
2. The second, with whom I want to close this paper, is the great stigmatized Capucchin Padre Pio, who was beatified by Pope John Paul II on May 2, 1999 and canonized on June 16, 2002. From St. Fr. Pio, the following dialogue is documented and officially published by the Cappuchin Order:
Question: Padre, some claim that there are creatures of God on other planets, too.
Answer: "What else? Do you think they don’t exist and that God's omnipotence is limited to this small planet Earth? What else? Do you think there are no other beings who love the Lord?"
Question: Padre, I think the Earth is nothing compared to other planets and stars.
Answer: "Exactly! Yes, and we Earthlings are nothing, too. The Lord certainly did not limit His glory to this small Earth. On other planets other beings exist who did not sin and fall as we did."
(Don Nello Castello: Cosi parlo P.Pio, Vicenza 1974)


Interesting link:
Vatican Astronomer Fr. George Coyne, S.J.: “It is madness to believe man is alone”

www.rense.com/general18/believe.htm


Question: “Holy Father, are there any aliens?”
Answer: “Always remember: They are children of God as we are…”

H.H. Pope John Paul II. when asked by a child during his visit to the parish of “S. Innocenzo I. Papa e S. Guido Vescovo” in the north of Rome, November 28, 1999.

Text © 1999/2002 by Msgr. Corrado Balducci, Rome
Translation © 2002 by Michael Hesemann



Related Articles on RELIGION AND UFOS

Alexander UFO Religious Crisis Survey: Development of Questions and Analysis of Responses
John Alexander, Ph.D, NIDS (National Institute for Discovery Science)

Alexander UFO Religious Crisis Survey: Statistical Analysis
John Alexander, Ph.D, NIDS (National Institute for Discovery Science)

Alexander UFO Religious Crisis Survey: The Impact of UFOs and Their Occupants on Religion
Conducted by Victoria Alexander, (NIDS / Bigelow Foundation)

E.T. and God: Could earthly religions survive the discovery of life elsewhere in the universe?
Paul Davies, The Atlantic Monthly, September 2003

Missionaries to Mars? The religious implications of the search for life in the Universe
David Wilkinson, The Plain Truth, Apr-May 2004

Possible life on Mars raises theological implications
CNN, August 7, 1996

Religion and the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Joseph L. Spradley, Department of Physics, Wheaton College (in PSCF 50, September 1998)

UFO Research and Christian Faith
Dennis G. Balthaser, June 2004

Ufology and Theological Clarifications
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Ufology and Theological Clarifications
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UFOs and Extraterrestrials - A problem for the Church?


Check out this link and see what you make of it:Father Yahweh the Prophet??? And This one:Top Secret Site For Skeptics.

So there we have it ladies and gentlemen! The true name of god is:ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ!

And all this time it was disguised right under our own noses, and we did not even realize it when they threw it up on the wall for us to learn this simple alphabet.

ms d,

you misunderstood my question. it was not about howmany people are under the influence of judeo-christain-islam, it was are you so certian that people have been looking to spacemen since the beginnings of humanity? You seem to put your emphasis only on documents from the birth of judaism forward, which neglects a very long time of history.

I understand your question, and if we wish to look deeper into history, then one opens up a whole new can of worms.

Would you like to have a discussion about "Ra" (The Sun God)?

ok,

show me what you have to support a commonality of space-men references going further back in history.

When one tend's to go further back beyond Judo-Christianity, we re-open Atlanta, and the prior two creations by beings of a different nature to the Elohim. This race was heralded by Ra the Sun God, and it goes back to discovering the power within crystals, and the opening of portals into the fourth dimension through the use of 13 crystal skulls and caverns of crystaline, bla, bla, bla, etc.

so would this also be what you consider the great collapses or setbacks of humanity?

Yes! But we are going way of topic here, and I would like to bring this discussion back on topic.

The level of Ra is a different area altogether to what I am pointing out in this thread. Perhaps you can start a new discussion on Ra and Atlantis and it's 3 destructions. It would be a most interesting topic I feel.

Best regard's
Claude

Hey People! What has happened to the responses to the case I put forward?

So yesterday I was half woman, today I AAAM reborn into the real me, to answer your questions with logic and respect, but most of all with truth and vision.

May your day bring you fruitful harvests, and new wonder for why we are.

I perceive a Raelian in our midst, holding great delusions and seeking to confuse others.

About the name of God?
edit: pallidin, I applaud your maturity and how you always have to bring in someone's personal belief into a thread. You even do that with people you don't know, like rane. It's rude really.

It was not about the NAME of God, nor was it ever truly about it.
Rather, it is an attack on the very idea of God by using the "name-game" to attempt convincing others that an ultimate, hyper-dimensional GOD does not exist.
The end desired result of I AAAM(aka ClaudeHero) is for the Raelian belief system.

Pallidin, I hold no delusions and I do not seek to confuse anyone. If you are confused by the proof that I have put forward to this thread, then it is only your own method of identifying the truth which has put this mental block in place for you to not want to see.

As for the "Raelian in our midst" part of it, I explained a few weeks ago on another thread (Stellars: What if aliens came and started preaching another religion) as to my position on following this group. When I say "I AM" it is because I do not need any other outside influence to live by this truth. It is always wise though to look at other possibilities in life and to not close one self from other possible realities.

May your light shine brightly on your world.

pallidin, there are so many sources listed on here. It's not an attempt to confuse anyone.

Surely you must have seen that there is a hidden "agenda" on this thread having nothing to do with a true, intellectual discourse regarding the "NAME" of God.

^Did it really take you an hour to come up with that?
This thread is all about intellectual discourse, don't be paranoid.

This is the part of skepticisim that I don't understand! All the skeptics in this world want and demand the proof, and when one presents it to you, you then try to find another way out to try and discredit the proof by saying that the one who presented it has no credability, but you see pallidin it was not I who wrote these facts, they were written by other reliable sources who are directly involved on the issues. So what is your question?

Mrs. Doubtfire, I AAAM, or whatever you choose to call yourself... If/when you become mature enough and intelligent/educated/intellectual/articulate enough, then please feel free to engage in rational debates and discussions in this forum. Until that happens, save us from your unfounded, juvenile and sarcastic retorts--they don't approach anything even remotely resembling rational and cerebral discourse.

Thank you.

Of course I should have realized that one must have their head down a chimney to think rationally! Sorry Santa!

Agreed.

And now that we're on the subject of maturity, pallidin, why don't you be mature about following the guidelines. Stop bringing up Claude's beliefs in topics, and bashing him, saying that he's trying to confuse someone. This is not the Spirituality vs Skepticism board.


Flaming or religion bashing is not tolerated in this section.
Please always respect the religious beliefs of other members.
For skeptic vs believer style debates on religious issues, visit the Spirituality vs Skepticism board.

When an individual posts a question on this forum, yet has direct, intended and purposeful additional statements in effort to "force-support" a biased view of the original question, this is called "belief"

Therefore, I am free to question the personal belief system of the poster.

Actually, he didn't mention Raelism at all. Even if this was the Spirituality vs Skepticism board, you still can't bash him. Saying that he confuses people is not questioning. That's just being rude.

^Bashing, which is not tolerated.

Bashing.

i aready knew this

Pallidin, what he said was if you are confused, which is not bashing. You on the other hand, came out of nowhere and made a direct insult to him. That's trolling. Why don't you drop this and get on to the subject without attacking him and discuss this like an adult...