He could have invaded the UK. And he could have..had he not abandoned Operation Sealion and decided he wanted to take down Russia more.

He couldn't have taken the England, the Royal Navy would shread every thing to piece that even tried to cross the Channel.

The number one thing which annoys me IS...... when people say England instead of Britain. Britain fought against the nazis. Not just England. End Of Story. No Debate. No Questions. It Is A Fact.

Anyway...... about Australia, they were screwed. Britain owns Australia and during the war we gave(im from Scotland btw moved to TX) them the order to give up thier defences there to defend Britain and the queen etc. So it wouldnt have been to hard for hitler to move into Aussie. (also thousands of kids etc were moved there by us to escape the blitz etc etc etc so im sure most people were busy in Aussie doing what we told them to).

The only way hitler could have taken america was by being smart, and its a fact he was going nuts well before the end of the war. If , however he had maintained his sanity then he would have taken britain,( i have no doubt he could have if he wanted to, just because theres a 20 miles gap of water, it doesnt mean you can stop a invasion by sea. Yes the brittish navy was trashing thier ships but they were also ripping us to shreds also. Britain was very poorly defended by the Home Guard and could easily have been attacked and conquered IF the nazis focused on it for awhile. Our forces were spread very thin, we were estentially holding off half of europe by ourselves for almost 4 years, So we were running low on everything, (man power etc)

After taking britain and then by some miricle managed to take over russia(never could have happened but for the sake of arguement) He would have had to stall for 4 or 5 years to build another army, train up his troops, indoctraine his new recruits from other/defeated armies, during which time he could continue his efforts in africa and after taking that over(which would have been a matter of time in my opinion if he didnt have russia etc etc to worry about)

And then he would have had a large enough power base to begin organizing south american forces to his cause. (the main problem with any thoery is that you have to believe north america would sit and do nothing all the while, which lets face it wouldnt happen)

there would be no way for him to get into place any sort of force large enough to invande america without there being massive warning signs,(i assume america would have pulled whatever forces it had elsewhere as the fights became lost causes and i also assume america would be smart enough to assume hitler would be coming at them at some point, so would be building its own forces)

Now the only way i can practically see hitler having a chance against america is if south america supported him AND he was able to move substansal forces into alaska and then thru canada to get close to detriot etc and all the major "motor cities" he would have to go this way as any other way would be spotted far to easily by the american navy and then they would be attacked at sea by air, they wouldnt have a chance, Assuming that america had been training its pilots for just this sort of thing for years.


IF hitler had managed to take texas AND knock out the motor cities then maybe he would have a chance against taking america BUT only if america was blind, deaf and mute. America would have been preparing for his for just as long as hitler was preparing it so would be ready either way.

Also hitler would lose thousands of man doing it anyway trying to get them to where he needed them, it would be a massive and dangerous gamble, one which i doubt anyone would take, the chances of commiting far to much of your forces to one cause would leave open all other areas under your control and theres no way hitler could control all areas totally and everywhere there would be resistance fighters waiting for hitler to commit to something this big to strike at his rear and that could cripple the supply lines which would stall the invasion.

The only option left to america would be to use massive quanties on A bombs etc and level entire countries. There would be no point in hitler using A bombs to force america to surrender firstly because america would have them also and be more then ready and willing to use them, and secondly america wouldnt have anything to lose. Hitler would be required to bomb everything in america he wanted. i assume he would require the oil that is here and the industry that is here. also the massive amounts of good farm land accross the country. Hitler would have to right off every benifit of america to ensure he managed to get america. He would be far better off to try and make peace with them and establish trade routes with them, he could destroy america economically by controling the price of everything. If he controlled all the world then he could set the price of things unless america totally sealed its borders to commerce with the world which would inturn cripple its economy and mess up the stock markets........leading to a stock market crash, leading to america needing to ask for assitance.....from hitler, and then he could far more easiler force his way into the american political system and that would give him the ability to ease control of america towards him.

After a few years people forget what has happened, and bear in mind if america backed out of the war then they would have to downplay hitler being so bad so they wouldnt look so bad to the american public. Also most of the wars worse things wouldnt have come to light to the extent they have...so hitler wouldnt have seemed that bad of a guy after enough time had passed,

So hitler proberly could have sneaked into america under the guise of a helping hand and seized control of it then. It would be easy to move in plenty of troops all over america with "aid" and then when your are all ready just move in and take over all the key points of american society and then your done...you rule the world.

Rogue

I say it would take less than 10 atomic bombs to make the Germans give up and go back to making brattwurst and weird porn.

"The number one thing which annoys me IS...... when people say England instead of Britain. Britain fought against the nazis. Not just England."

Yes, but we are talking about Operation Sealion, the invasion of England, not India, or Australia, or other UK Colonies.

And i wasnt talking about you or operation sealion which had just been mentioned, i was talking about earlier references to england instead of britain. also i was more talking about those countries which actually are part of britain such as Scotland/Ireland/Wales and not colonies. India et all are NOT part of britain, we owned them/did at the time.

I would assume operation sealion wouldnt just involve the nazis taking over england and leaving the 3 neighbouring countries alone.

but my new number one hate is when you post a big ole thing and the reply back is a snippy comment about your first line and completely ignores the rest of the post.

I didn't ignore, I just had one comment about that one part.

Finally , a Brit that is able to admit that Britain could have been successfully invaded.

(no offense to the Brits out there)

everyone else I have talked to about it has been unable to accept it.

also, dont forget that Britain entire Merchant Fleet had wiped out. which mean no more new supplies.

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about the invasion of the U.S. well had Hitler magically taken over Russia...look at a globe, there is only a drop of water that separates the tip of Russia from Alaska. had hitler invaded Alaska, that would have been the stepping stone to Canada and the rest of America.


....on another note, the Axis did invade america, Japan invaded a few of the Islands of Alaska and put a few regiments of troops there. took some hard fighting to regain the land.

To anyone who refuses to believe britain could have been invaded successfully all you have to do is point out that little old britain managed to successfully invade europe from britain so its impossible it wouldnt work the other way around. It would have been very easy to invade britain, its got a huge coast line....you couldnt defend it all and as we managed to take the nazis by surprise when they were expecting it, how couldnt they when we couldnt even guess where the attack would come from?

As a brit though is is my sworn duty to say they wouldnt have got us without a heck of a fight though We would have fought until the last man and i am sure that it would have tied up the nazis for some time taking us out.....but it could of been done. no question.

Rogue

Hitler could have never gotten to the US... Look at a map... he'd never made it before we destroyed his force's... This thread is crazy.. There is no what if... He couldn't have taken us on that way plus fought the Brit's and Russian's... he didn't have the money for such a war.. Nor was he smart enough to pull that off.....

What the hell are you all talking about "Mexico about helped the Axis powers"?

Let me school you all on the role that the only Latin American countries to send troops into battle: Mexico and Brazil.

Mexico declared war on Germany June 1, 1942. Towards the end of the war, the Mexican Air Force's Escuadron Aereo de Pelea 201 (201st Fighter Squadron) served with the US Fifth Air Force in the South West Pacific Area. This was 31 fighter pilots and 150 ground support troops. Now Mexico wasn't a major player in WW2, but if Germany would have invaded the United States. It would have had to conquer Mexico too.

Brazil helped to patrol the South Atlantic and sent an army of more than 25,000 soldiers to fight in Europe in 1944. This army joined the 5th Army under General Mark Clark and participated in the campaign of Italy until the end of war. Now if Germany succeeded in Gaining the support of some South American countries. They would have had to fight a Brazilian army of at least 700 thousand strong.

So Germany wouldn't have invaded the United States from Latin America, because Hitler would have had to conquer Latin America first.

Lol....who is doing the smoking my friend? I never posted to teach anything. I was merely making an observation. The reason I never mentioned the balkans is because they had no impact on that war. Still though poland was not exactly a buddy as such. The only reason they cared is because they knew Germany would not stop at Poland.

As the fascist bit I would look on brighter examples of today. The USA has all the typical examples of it and still people yell about germany. We only traded one fascist state for another to make into a superpower...hurray

Hitlet didn't have the power to invade US....no country has the power to invade US...It is possible for another country to "attempt" to invade us...but it wouldn't last long.

yep, an example of this was the stupid move by the Japanese to invade Alaska

It may well be that way now, but never say never. Eventually somebody is going to try, and eventually somebody's going to succeed. Earth is, unfortunately, a very small place.

I dare anyone to try and invade the U.S. Especially Canada. I'm just waitin for Canada to give me a reason....

What's wrong with Canada? I hope you're not one of these Americans that hates Canada for no reason at all.

All I remember was the war of 1812, when Canada beat the US

You didn't beat us, and it wasn't Canada, it was the British army. We won 1812.

The British owned Canada, it was still native Canada troops, it was just missing the name Stalingrad. It wasen't until 1867 that all of the provinces of Canada united, and we were given our independance from Britan. You can't say it was not Canadian troops, since we still had British influence.

Hey there buddy, you need our oil!!!!

...I'm saying that the British army attacked, not the natives from Canada....

The Americans attacked Canada, and more then half of the british troops were actually canadian militia, also including the native americans. You can read up about it here.

Yeah, and if you look back further, the "Canadians" there were just settled British from a Generation or two before.

Ok, so when do you qualify as a Canadian ?. Back then, there were no laws on alienation, so I assume if you landed in Canada, and you lived there for a generation, your considered Canadian.

The 1812 war was never 'won' by either side. Everyone just likes to claim that their country won it.

Man - just about every one in this thread needs to do a bit of research and read your history.

It was Bly, Oregon: http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/jbb.htm and http://www.seanet.com/~johnco/fugo.htm

One hit Hanford in Washington but didn't kill any one: http://hometown.aol.com/Gibson0817/bombs.htm

Also, two hunters were killed in the 1950's from a left over bomb near Newport Oregon. Sorry, not able to find a link for that one. The bombs were meant to destroy the Pacific Northwest's timber productions which were critical in the WWI war effort.

At the beginning of WWII America was a second world country. We had a standing army of about 190,000 men and ranked 17th world wide. http://www.60wwii.mil/Presentation/Educati..._industrial.cfm and another 20,000 in the Army Air Corps. At that time though a lot of military equipment was left over from the Civil War, very little was from WWI era as we left most of that in France and Britain. See page 2 of the link above for what we built. Realistically we were probably actually lower due to the sorry state of preparedness, and the low level of training.

America didn't even really factor in Germany's plans. Hitler counted on American apathy about European Politics to stay out of the war until Germany was able to consolidate it's holdings. He did learn from WWI where our production capabilities contributed heavily to Ally victory, but was hoping that we hadn't recovered from the Depression yet. And if the Lusitania hadn't been sunk we probably would not have.

The only way Hitler would have won the war was to take over Europe. After conquering France he should have followed up with an all out attack on Britain. The original plan called for that, but Hitler pulled back as Churchill ran an incredibly effective propaganda campaign. A notable example was when it was "accidently" leaked that 115,000 Anti-Tank guns (Bazookas,) had been deployed to British Costal defenders. Hitler did not know that there was no ammo for the guns though. Taking Britain would have enabled him to better stop Lend-Lease convoys to Russia from the US which provided at least 50% of the war material Russia needed to defend itself.

As some one else pointed out, Russia welcomed Hitler at first, but only later changed their mind. If he had a bit less blood thirsty about purifying the human race he could have taken Russia faster. If Germany had been able to consolidate Europe and Britain, Russia would have fallen eventually. The Winter War was bad yes, but they could have won eventually. Once Western Russia, and most importantly the Serbian oil fields had been taken by Germany they would have been able to build enough arms to eventually attack the US. Eastern Russia would have been left to itself, but realistically at that time there was little there. Germany probably would have left it to Japan if it wanted, the area had few natural resources either country needed at the time.

Technologically even as late as 1944 at the height of German Technology, they would not have been able to Nuke the US. The V-2 rocket had the furthest range, but would have dropped 1500 miles from the East Coast. No airplane in that day could go that far. For more details, read descriptions of Doolittle's raid on Hiroshima. (Hint, it was a one-way trip.)

It's speculated that Germany was incredibly far from building a Atomic Bomb in the first place, preferring to rely on "standard" technology. There are several great books written on that subject alone.

One hundred years from now people will recite stories of WW1 & WW2, but believe it or not, most of them will be embellished. People still say Hilter survived and lived a peaceful like with Ava Brawm (sp) and the bodies found in the burnt bunker were other people. But this is getting off the topic.

Hitler didn't have enough resources to forthright invade the USA, however he did plant spies. That can be construde as invasion in small respect. He was attempting to gather intelligence.

The word 'invasion' is meant more as an all-out attack on an enemy instead of what it should be: to infiltrate. The world invade is described as to violate the sanctity of a private domain. And Hitler did that.

Well, there were a few agents in the USA, found with tons of explosives in their hotel rooms when caught. No one got away O.o

...didn't the hotel clerks notice anything strange?

I wouldn't think so, not if they spoke a half-descent English dialect. Most spies know how to speak a dozen languages with or without an accent. And probably the tips were good. Why spoil a good thing?

Take canada via Alaska theres your Airbases even Greenland could do for German Airbases to bomb us they wouldn't have to set foot on the ground now that you think about it.

little old britain by herself are you still talking about WWII um Britain had a very large force of Brits, Americans, Canadians, and a whole buncha other countries, with their military parked outside Britain didn't do it by herslef to defeat Hitler she had help (what if another person took over germany who had the same fanaticism as hitler but released the Jews and all those ppl got them nourished back to health and then gave them jobs in the army disbaned the Waffen SS and all the bad ppl that died for thier crimes rotting in a French jail?)

Who knows maybe Anarchy might succeed in thier mission to bring down the government very unlikely thought considering thier last recorded numbers where 50....

Let's just say Britain is lucky it was separated by water from Germany, or they would have suffered the same fate as France.

German Spies were terribly trained. They frequently didn't speak good English, or did with a heavy accent. One thing that tripped them up was not being able to make correct change when buying stuff at a store, or paying for train tickets. Most German spies were picked up within three days of landing in England. Later in the war it got to the point where they were turning themselves in and working as double agents. The OSS took over an old orphanage/mental hospital that dated from the 1600's and kept the German spies there for interrogation, and to pass bad information back to Germany. The Nazi party never suspected that their spies were being captured and turned.

In the US, we never had many German spies. There were a few well known cases, but they were technically Communist spies, and in all cases had been living in the US since WWI. The saboteurs who were landed by Submarine in Florida only lasted a couple of weeks. They might have gotten away better though if the leader of the group hadn't tried to bribe the Coast Guard Patrol Man, AFTER the guy let him go.

I did mistype, i didnt mean Britain did it on itself, what i intended to say was "From" Britain, we managed to invade Europe From britain so it wouldnt make any sence for it not to work in the opposite way.

Didnt mean any disrespect to any of the allied forces.

Britains only suffered in a different way though consistent bombings and many innocent civilians were killed. Did you forget your history lessons? No one is lucky when someone starts a war and everybody loses.

To win a war you must have finance to do so. Who financed Hitler: the american finance. When they ceased to do so Hitler lost. They could do so before but they didn't. You should ask why.

Hitler didn't lose the war because the American's cut off his loans...

The Nazis never really planned on invading the United States. They simply didn't have the resources to do this; especially with the commitment of most of their forces in Russia.

In 1944 they did start working on some relatively futuristic plans to attack the United States by air but none of these aircraft or missiles wer ever built. It is an interesting game of speculation to guess at what would have happened if they had these weapons. Here are some books on this subject that might be of interest:
Luftwaffe over America: The Secret Plans to Bomb the United States in World War II

If you're interested in more titles please let me know. There have been a few books written on things like Sanger's proposed orbital rocket bomber and the Horton Brother's 'Amerika' bomber. There has been a book published in Germany in the last year that claims the Nazi's were more advanced on their nuclear program than any of us thought. I haven't had a chance to read this yet but have it on order through the German publisher.

They had a prototype transatlantic bomber built but it was destroyed by airraids.

IT could either carry large loads and ditch in the atlantic to be picked up by U-Boat, or a small load and return.

~Thanato

The Germans never really considered the idea viable. By the end of the war the Nazis had settled on three different plans for the strategic bombardment of the United States. They had one plan for a manned version of the V-2. This would have been a suicide mission at best but in their two-stage configuration it might have been able to reach the United States.

Then you had the Horton Brothers with their 'Amerika' bomber. The airplanes biggest problems wer the Jumo engines and a payload. They had a difficult time building a reliable set of engines and eventually finding fuel for any engines they managed to build. I think one of the best examples of late war German development programs that I've ever seen showed them pulling one of the Horton Brothers prototypes out of it's reveted hanger with an ox team. The Germans managed to build some amazing aircraft but simply didn't have the fuel to fly them.

There is a lot of debate right now about how far along the Nazis actually were in their nuclear program. I've seen a lot were some people think they were trying to develope a sort of 'dirty bomb' to drop on New York city from the 'Amerika' bomber. There is also one English book and one German book that believe they might have tested a small yield device similar to the neutron bomb. I've read the English book and want to find an English translation of the more recent German book. The English book contends that Luftwaffe personnel resisted attempts to use the weapon because they were terrified of the repercussions for Germany when the Allies responded.

Then you have Sanger's Orbital Rocket Bomber; this was the least likely but most interesting of the three ideas. There was quite a bit more testing done on the idea than most people realise. The Germans had even written up a list of strategic targets within the United States with included the vehicle factories around Detroit and the aircraft factories throughout the midwest!

The problem, again, was production of the engines and fuel. They also had not experienced the heat shield problems they would encounter when they attempted the final re-entry of the vehicle. The payload problem was again very real but this time they were not thinking in terms of a 'dirty bomb' but actually salting the target area with some kind of radioactive debris.

There were some people in Germany that wanted to try to use chemical weapons with all the different potential attack aircraft. The Germans were very reluctant to use their chemical arsenals even late in the war. I even know of one specific instance when the wehrmacht went out of its way to destroy a substantial stockpile of Saran nerve gas to prevent it from falling into Russian hands.

There's some fascnating pictures of how some of these German aircraft projects might have looked if they'd ever flown here; some of them (the Sanger aerospace plane, for instance) are pretty awesome ... but i wouldn't want to be the test pilot of some of them ....
http://www.luft46.com/

Sangers bomber never got beyond some model studies. The piloted V-2 also never got beyond model testing. The Horton Brothers did, in fact, contruct several of their smaller flying wing aircraft including a figher version. One of the early demonstration aircraft for the HO-229 did crash killing the test pilot. Even with this crash the aircraft showed enough potential that the Luftwaffe ordered the plane into mass production as an interceptor. The war ended before this flying wing could see any operational use.

I bet the pilots were glad of that.

i read somewhere something by some self-proclaimed 'UFO expert' who claimed to have been a test pilot of one of those piloted V2's ... yeah, right, that said a lot for his credibility ....

You'll find a lot of interesting claims about what was done and not done by the Germans at the end of the war. This is sort of a personal research effort on my part; some claims might be true. I don't think the piloted V-2 came to much since many of the engineers working on this were diverted into research on bomber interceptor systems.

There is no proof what so ever that Germany was ever in a nuclear program, and a huge factor about it not being able, is the size of Europe, it's not capable to host a blast. About the dirty bomb, yes they were thinking if dropping it over New York's water supply, and some important buildings, but they never really got to the take of crossing the Atlantic.

Well, I know quite a few researchers who would beg to differ with this opinion. Like I said, none of these aircraft became operational. The nuclear test in question is still subject to debate and allegedly took place in the Baltic.

For the sake of discussion here are some interesting items about the possibility of a Nazi nuclear weapon:

News story about the book 'Hitler's Bomb' from MSNBC

One report of recent documents about Heisenbergs efforts during the war to produce a nuclear weapon:

Report from 'New Scientist' in February 2002

There have actually been several books written debating both sides of the German atomic bomb controversy. The odd thing is that none say the Germans never had a nuclear program but only argue the extent to which it came to actually building a workable device.

This first book argues that Heisenberg worked actively to obstruct the development of a German atomic bomb:

Heisenberg's War: The Secret History of the German Bomb

Then you have the 'Farmhall Tapes', which also became a book, that suggests the German scientists thought about building a bomb and then collectively obstructed it. I have Bulletin of the Atomic Scientist's article on this:

Declassified Files Reopen "Nazi Bomb" Debate

Then you have those that believe the real progress made by the Germans was not with Heisenberg's research team but a second development program under a fellow named Kurt Diebner. This second program feel under direct control of the SS in 1944 and less is known about it. This is the focus of the 'Hitler's Bomb' book.

Report on 'Hitler's Bomb' from Physics Web June 2005

The debate will probably go on for a long time...