you don't have to experience everything to learn about it. I didn't have to live out on the streets to know its tough. i didn't have to do drugs to know they hurt me and those around me. I didn't have to study calculus to know how to count. So, I don't have to read up on every religion to know what I like. I don't have to recieve the world, because there is much of the world that I know isn't good for me. I don't want to learn about other religions and I won't. I have seen it, people here so much about everything that they get stuck in the middle, or they change their religions and their everyday lives. It also affects those around them that recieve them, just as poverty, drugs, and knowledge does. To recieve everything as beneficial is in the eye of the beholder. I personally don't care for everything the world has to offer. I will limit myself for my own wellfare. Now, I'm done argueing. I don't tell anyone how they should live, i would personally appreciate it if I would get the same respect.

God bless

bleh bleh bleh bleh all you skeptics make me laugh WHERE IS YOUR INDISPUTABLE EVIDENCE AT im sick of skeptics trying to start flame wars with us

This is called Spirituality V's SKEPTICISIM

So in that case bleh bleh blah can you show any proof there is a god? Like it or not that are and will always be Skeptics

As I tried to tell him before "ignorance is bliss".


Yes that is a good question.....OH that is right....ignorance is bliss.

i asked first where is your indisputable evidence at its put up or shut up time for you skeptics

We are not the ones saying there is a God.

i dont have to prove nothing you do again put up your evidence that hes not real

Well no one has come back to tell the tale...& No one will be able to




Just so you know Zandore...this whole thread and others like it will always be full of Skeptics whether you like it or not, and people that don't believe have their reasons, just in the same way you have your reason to believe. I for one have not slammed your beliefs so pipe down

Skeptics and believers.


I think you meant my reasons not to believe.




But I was only telling the truth about some of the believers here!

But no one really knows what the real truth is ( I'm only saying) but you have to admit it's true.


I believe if you didn't have anyhting (and I mean anything) to believe in, you would probably go mad!!!

Curious....why do you think this?

Honestly!! My mom told me that many years ago, and I heard it from one of my teachers at school (again many moons ago ) An I used to wonder what they meant, but when you take a long hard think about it all, you think of all the things you used to believe in and some of the things you still believe in today.

IE...I used to believe in Santa, The tooth Fairy (nearly all of us did at one point)

I believe that the world did not begin with Adam & Eve, I believe in the scientists theory The big Bang!!! I could go on but everyone who is anyone believes in something!!!

"Man is lucky to be ignorant, because if he knew the truth it would either destroy him or drive him mad."
~ Stuart Gordan

... and if you don't stop I'll stamp my foot and squeam and squeam until I'm sick.

You said "Big Bang", that's an outer space type thing that's easy to believe in, and how mad could you possibly be believing in this vast scientific and theoretical endevour of space? I can take Santa, tooth fairy, any ffairie, giants, unicorns, gods/goddesses,devils/shedevils,griffins,demons,sylphs,nymphs,dragons (sorry zandore), and ECT and not believe in it.

& turn around and believe in the Big Bang. Fine. I'm not mad. But, I know you said 'probably' - so it depends on how strong a mind you have.

At the end of the day who really cares..we all still have to pay our taxes LOL

I believe in god but this goes both ways, " Were is your evidence "

this is going round and round...where is your evidence..over and over and the arguments will continue and still NO EVIDENCE and ...........................................everyone still has to pay their taxes in the end LOL

Exactly.

Didn't taxes start in the beginning of the christian era where goods and money were charged by the church for use of the land?

Agreed Becky's Mom, death and taxes are still the only two sureties we have in this world.

We can argue back and forth until the cows come home, but it is doubtful anyone will change their mind.

"Belief" is a wonderous thing: It requires no proof of a thing, only the belief of the believer.

I want to prose something here. Let's work backwards on this, ok? If there were a Godd, not saying whether it be true or not, what would this be like? I would go for an incredibly nebulous thing, like neither matter nor energy. no gender, no form, just intelligence itself. the vedas say "tathagata", which means "suchness", and say, neither here, nor there. Lao Tsu says "the Way that can be weighed is not the Eternal Way". sort of like when you think you see something out of the corner of your eye. something not directly perceiveable, at least, to the five "senses", but there would have to be some other type of perception. This would explain the multiplicity of religions. It is as if there was this presence, so far beyond our understanding, that it could only be experienced metaphorically to human comprehension. this might perhaps why Moses was only allowed to see Godd's "back", until Godd later killed him by showing him his face. I'm not saying this was literal truth, please concentrate on the symbolism. The Kabbalah calls this the "macroproposus" the greater face/countenance. Do we remember the priestly blessing?

Aren’t you as a believer meant to have understanding if your god/gods is so infallible then you should not feel threatened by people with there own mind who choose through education or what ever road not to believe. Gods for me are constructed by man for man but i don’t feel threatened by people who believe in god and its related scriptures and accept that others may have an entirly differant world view if that’s what gets them through then so be it as for evidence for me all i have to do is wait till it gets dark and look up to me that’s evidence enough that god does not exists
Maybe you should explore your ignorance and your religion a little more maybe you may gain a little insight into your self and others or atleast reading this forums topic would be a good start

It is far better far better for me that I die, but it is more necessary for you that i live. For me, to live is Christ and to die is gain

I can't quite recall where this is in the Bible, but they are the words of Paul. I look forward to the day I die. WHy do I not kill myself then? Because it is much more necessary for me to be here on earth. Simple.

Regards, PA

Hmm, ever heard of Nihilism? It's a worldview that denies absolutely everything. Yes, it is very pessimistic, and yes, it's very hard to be a true Nihilist. But there are those out there.

I guess some of them might be crazy. Some won't be.

Though it is arguable that stern belief in nothing is a belief in something after all. But that's another argument.

Regards, PA

I am not a Nihilist, and what I said IMHO to me is true and a lot of others will agree, and just becuase they agree, does not make them a Nihilist either.

I say we will all find out the real truth when we die.

Very, very good point, only it isn't about 'There is no god' it's about

IN GOD WE TRUST and what changes a mind when some one feels guilty for spending or not spending one penny, and doesn't believe in god?

Just remember- if there is no god, why is it> in GOD?

See, in God there is only trust if there is a WE. If you were all by yourself, there would only be you and God, and trust.

If you don't believe in God, theres you and trust.

do ever actually try to make sense, or do you just string along whatever words float into your head?

Ah, yeah, and what did you not get about the word "IN"? This whole entire posting section is about in God or no God.

Remember WongFeiHung? "I believe that God is completely made up".

So in God being made, you have to trust that there are borderlines to that creation of some human interest whether some like it or not. Someone brought up taxes, yeah, and what's that about? It doesn't matter whether anyone believes in god or not, you have a penny or a dollar to pay and it says IN GOD WE TRUST on every peice.

So I'm not making sense?

How about by some supernatural means- I let a word float into my head that makes sense- and then I tell you it doesn't matter that the word GOD is imprinted in millions upon millions of notes all over the place and some people just don't

GIVE A DAMN ABOUT IT

Not quite sure what ur getting at are you saying you dont think god exsists ?or that the fact it refers to the word god on bank notesmust make him real lol ? if its the latter then in that case santas as real as me and u as theres lots of paper with his name on it too personally id prefer to belive in santa ratha than god i think santas done a lot less damage as a concept

O.K., there are distinct differences on this issue. Started out with WongFeiHung(where-ever the guy is) about how "there is no God".

1) He doesn't have evidence that there is no God.
2) When he said God is completely made up, how do you get evidence to measure up to what is "made" up?

What do you do if there is no evidence of the existence of God, and all you know and see all over the place is what you think is created by human beings but there is no evidence to point out a borderline?

What is it you think is going to grow any further than the God people made up, than the God who makes himself? Where does it end?

Hypothetically lets say God was 30 ft. tall for instance. So Wong is saying that God is made up- being created by human beings right? FAKE - so that means if human beings made God he has to obviously grow. Next year he'll be 31 feet tall. When is he going to stop growing? When was he born?

Well, hey!!!! Human beings made God right????? How?

On the issue that some people think God is made up by human beings and worshipped, what do the non-believers do about the money they are forced to have to live off of in the country? They were all over-ruled, they had no choice and they all get this attitude sometimes ( like WongFeiHung ) that it is so overwhelming in such a legal political way - that it isn't about religion anymore. So you have to stop somewhere because you can get frustrated and stereotypical.

Some people have to worship God without any choice in life until LEGALLY at the age of 18 you make your own choice as to whether you want to worship God or not. I had to- so what's the problem is that some people are in between no evidence and what evidence there is if God is made up by human beings- and not one penny is there to support either.

In God who do you trust? If you do, who is we?

So who do you trust if human beings made God? Human beings who are convinced that there is a God because they were so convinced that they made God? That they trust in that God - and you can't do anything about it?

That is what I mean, and if it doesn't make sense - spell it out and point it out to me. Because I have not even the slightest clue, now, how it doesn't make sense.

You have two ways, God is made up by human beings- meaning there is creation. No evidence, but substance in the flesh/blood/bones/brain and what ever mind is behind it.

There is no God, meaning it was never created by human beings, and not even God created God. No evidence. No substance - just complete mind-boggling non-human NOTHINGNESS.

PFlack, common sense tells me there can't be an entity such as this. According to believers It's been around since the beginning of time and it has yet to show itself to be some kind of molecular unit or energy or anything and the best anyone can do is have blind faith in it. I would think that something so narcisistic and all powerful would want it's followers to know it and see it. You won't convince me that this thing is real until I see with my own 3 eyes.

That is another way I would say it. Ive just come down to some conclusions that fit that perspective, and it was never an easy thing for half of my life to get to that point ... but I'm here. It was about having a perspective that is neither against God or a disbelief nor the whole hearted dead-on religious faith I endured as a child. If anything now when I look back and I try to understand what makes it blind faith, it's hard to see family is still in that position of 'faith' and how I see what was so blind about me. When I never thought it was about being blind about it.

Seeing through it is about the best I do.

this topic goes on and on but the fact is you cant change peoples minds about something like religion because you will never be able to prove them wrong. never. it simply cannot be done because for everything you do not have an answer for they do. which is how religion has survived all this time. it hides with the unexplained. as for those who would try and change that, good luck. i tried.

You will never be able to prove them wrong, if they were never proven to be right.
So there are those like me that are in the center. I survive all this time without religion. I don't hide the unexplained nor with it, since I do my best to research it and expose it for what it is.

I will never try and change it. Nor hide it when and if I do know.

So, you try, good luck.

You tried and you failed.

It doesn't mean you won't find the answer.

You have hit the nail on the head...we will keep trying but not one of us will find the right answer untill we die

that is of course assuming there is only one right answer, and that one needs to die to find it.

How true and that is a pre equisite of religion, die to be right namaste sheri

There's no God?

Many will look with there eyes but will not see, and will listen with their ears but not hear.

Ok, now wait a minute. Even though I am a non-believer, I must give the religious folks a lot of credit. Religion has always been an excellent way to keep people in line. It promotes law and order and moral values that a great deal of people wouldn't have if it weren't for the religious teachings. Had it not been for them, our species would have never made it beyond the level of heathens. Even though I don't personally buy any of the hooplah, I must admit that I would rather have religious coworkers any day then not. I work with many Christians on a daily basis and I think they are great people. They are always honest and helpful and you don't have to worry about them stealing anything or cheating customers.

that is true RedRaider, but do we still require a 'higher power' to maintain law & order today?

And you must have an exceptional group of christians working with you.

I've known many who were not so........saintly?

Blind faith is a 50/50 shot. Either what you believe is true, or it isn't. People take a blind shot at bets and win.

The laws in America(dunno about elsewhere) are almost identicle to God's laws. So, do we really need the laws of America? Don't steal, don't kill, etc... A higher force being smarter than a human(hypotheticaly speaking) would be able to withold those laws better than a mere human.

Yes, because the cops can't be everywhere and catch everybody who commits a crime. We need to keep the religion in place to keep people in line subconciously. For instance, someone who works with very little supervision if any at all, would be less likely to swindle or steal if they thought they would go to Hell for it, especially with all the soft and weak punishments and little deterrent we have in our country at the present.

Yes, they are an exception to the rule you could say.

Yes, me too, which is one of the reasons why I turned my back on religion in the first place.

sounds like a get out of jail free card to me

'Many are called, few are chosen.'

'He who knows does not speak, he who speaks does not know.'

^^^^^
Ironic, ain't it.......

It's a paradox, if you don't speak to God or yourself, what DO you know but irony.

maybe you only need to speak to other real people insted of fairytale gods or voices in your head no irony in that

Anyway isn’t talking to your self a sign of madness? Maybe religion falls into the same category I don’t know but both require you to talk without answers and answer without knowing

and as for inane quotes here’s one for you ask the right questions get the right answers ( Homer Simpson’s The simsons Sky TV maybe given enough time man will create a new religion based on homers values and call them self’s the Simsonites now there’s a Religion I will accept as true) All hail Homer King of Kings