Hi Matthew,

People only see a God who killed people with the flood and don't look at his reasons behind it. They also don't know why God would send his son to die for us. I mean it is just what they view our God as-a blood thristy killer. Which you and I both know that God is not a blood thristy but a God with power and rules with sovereignty.

So you are in essence saying that the Bible is lying? Everything that I mentioned about your god and your religion is backed by your book of mythology and recorded history...I fail to see any love in your god, and find it ludicrous that he had to sacrifice himself to himself so that he would not have to condemn his beloved creations to the eternal fires of hell! As the old computers used to say, "DOES NOT COMPUTE, DOES NOT COMPUTE"! I don't need to know more, I have studied your religion extensively and find it to be contrived, illogical, and (in my opinion) a fraud. Tell you what, you start the prayers and maybe I'll join you later....don't hold your breath, I don't really like talking to myself.

101, as I have pointed out numerous times, the Creator of everything could have merely tailored a Human specific, 100% fatal virus, made Noah and compamy immune and then released it. No need to destroy all life...Blood thirsty is the word that comes to mind!

101 and Matthew its you who is deluded the bible is clear if you had read it it would be clear to you , Matthew i am not religious myself and many others around here are specifiacally saying we do not beleive in a bible God not one of you has ever cared what we believed or asked you only care about pushing A god that doesn't exist, we aren't buying!! that is all not a single one of is doing Bad things quite the contrrary and I ask that you inquire as to what kind of people we are without religion??I do alot of humanitarian works with my life because i choose to I care about the planet and the people in it and I think I am one with everyone I don't think I know it all I know there is much i haven't remembered, My life lived is my testimony to divinity as is everyone elses, If yo truly understood "God" which is another word for unconditional love which is free eternal and infinite by definition you would not be proclaiming yourself to "Know " God God cannot be proven kids. there is much you don't know, Why are you angry??? Why are you defending your God Do you think that all that is would need you to defend it?? namaste sheri

Yes Dear I understand. But I don't know Noah or the people of that time in particular. Or the animals. Maybe the animals were going to die anyways of diseases that evil man gave them. And Noah got the pure "clean" and "unclean" animals. I don't know why God did it but there had to be a reason.

Yep, there is a reason, the OT was written by a bunch of Bronze Age savages that didn't know about microbes or genetics or any other science - they thought rabbits chewed their cud, bats were fowls and insects had only four legs. They wrote about what they knew, which shows that the bible is not the word of god, but only another silly book of mythology. Sorry, I had to tell you that, but we all need to quit believing in Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

So you automatically assume that people who don't believe in your god are bad sinful people? why is that? What made you become a christian? have you ever looked at other religions?

101 Can there ever be a justifieable reason for killing??Come on think about it You will find you need no OUTSIDE authority to give you directions no higher source to supply you with the answers If you think about it if you look to see how you feel about it the answers will be obvious to you , and you will act accordingly, This is called acting on your own authority?? What does your own authority tell you about A god that kills HIS creations?? namaste sheri

Hey Sherri, Sweetie I am not angry with you or anyone else. I hope no one thinks I am mad at them. I personally tell my daughter about God. But in ways she can understand. But it is like that with anything you just explain things to a child in a way they think of it.

I personally don't know why God killed his creation but I know that if I seen a person killing another and I were on the jury I would give them the death penalty. No other justice would suffice in my eyes. Unless it were a child.


I also would like to answer your question about why I do not ask abnout what you believe in. I have asked my friends on here before about their beliefs but only when they interest me. I have asked Hyper,Zandore,and SilverCougar. Also JMPd. They all are very different and I love them all with a passion. I just haven't asked you because I am unsure of what you believe.

101 thats kool not everyone is interested in everyone, I'm not offended by it, Its a huge misconception that the only way to be aqgood person is to be Christian or some other religion, More often then not the relifious person isn't a good person by there own admission and they are striving everyday to be good to cleanse of their sins through Gods forgiveness, I'm suggesting because of personal experience goodness is a state of being its not something you do its something you are and when you realize this everything you do is good and for the bettterment of mankind, all your choices are choices based in love. I see religoon as the impossible route to living a life thats a benefit to myself and all others I have read the bible lots of bibles , this is why it doesn't inspire me it doesn't teach me to value myself love myself it teaches fear and worship, I know that worship and fear are dangerous,I want to use my life on purpose for a purpose wher it contributes , choosing a belif system is serious yo will become that beleif system and what I'm wondering i s why would yo uwant low self esteem, justifiable homicide fear unworthiness ?? I don't understnd why anyone would choose that over love.

To a Christian God is love even with the fear you speak of and worship. But I know of people who are not religious by nop means who are wonderful. Even as a non believer a person reaps what they sow. and if they are mean to someone they must expect that back. It is the same with love I show love to people and hope they will recipricate back. But it is not always so.

“When I came to men, then found I them resting on an old infatuation: all of them thought they had long known what was good and bad for men.

“An old wearisome business seemed to them all talk of virtue; and he who wished to sleep well spoke of "good" and "bad" before retiring to rest.

“This somnolence did I disturb when I taught that no one yet knows what is good and bad:- unless it be the Creator!

“It is he, however, who creates man's goal, and gives to the earth its meaning and its future: he only effects it that anything is good or bad.

“And I bade them upset their old academic chairs, and wherever that old infatuation had sat; I bade them laugh at their great moralists, their saints, their poets, and their saviors.

“At their gloomy sages did I bid them laugh, and whoever had sat admonishing as a black scarecrow on the tree of life.

“On their great grave-highway did I seat myself, and even beside the carrion and vultures- and I laughed at all their bygone and its mellow decaying glory.

“Like penitential preachers and fools did I cry wrath and shame on all their greatness and smallness. Oh, that their best is so very small! Oh, that their worst is so very small! Thus did I laugh.

“Thus did my wise longing, born in the mountains, cry and laugh in me; a wild wisdom, verily!- my great pinion-rustling longing.

“And oft did it carry me off and up and away and in the midst of laughter; then flew I quivering like an arrow with sun-intoxicated rapture:

“Out into distant futures, which no dream has yet seen, into warmer souths than ever sculptor conceived,- where gods in their dancing are ashamed of all clothes:

“(That I may speak in parables and halt and stammer like the poets: and verily I am ashamed that I have still to be a poet!)

“Where all becoming seemed to me dancing of gods, and wantoning of gods, and the world unloosed and unbridled and fleeing back to itself:

“As an eternal self-fleeing and re-seeking of one another of many gods, as the blessed self-contradicting, recommuning, and refraternising with one another of many gods:

“Where all time seemed to me a blessed mockery of moments, where necessity was freedom itself, which played happily with the goad of freedom:-

“Where I also found again my old devil and arch-enemy, the spirit of gravity, and all that it created: constraint, law, necessity and consequence and purpose and will and good and evil:

“For must there not be that which is danced over, danced beyond? Must there not, for the sake of the nimble, the nimblest,- be moles and clumsy dwarfs?

“There was it also where I picked up from the path the word "Superman," and that man is something that must be overcome.

“That man is a bridge and not a goal- rejoicing over his noontides and evenings, as advances to new rosy dawns!”

I know that in the bible God has done many things that I don't understand, but He does. That's why He is God and we are not. Things happen for a reason, a reason that we may not always need or want to know. But the God of the New Testament is a God of grace and mercy. That's all I'm saying. Alot of what people talk about is from the Old Testament.

I mean no harm in my replys just stating my belief, as each person here is entitled to do.

I see the problem, you and 101 are going on the assumption that the God in the bible is real! That explains a lot....no worry, he is fake. The real God is nothing like the one worshipped by the followers of the bible.

See, there is proof that the god of the bible is fake! You say god is unchanging, yet he changed from the OT to the NT. From bloody thirsty despot to loving blood thirsty despot that demanded the sacrifice of his son (who was somehow himself) in order to be bribed into not tormenting his creations for eternity (Here Johnny, here is a nice cookie if you will quit tormenting the cat)!

Yep, unless you lived under the theocracy that was imposed by the Christian religion for nearly 1 and a half millenia. stating your belief then could have gotten you barbequed or worse!

“There was it also where I picked up from the path the word "Superman," and that man is something that must be overcome.

You know I got something from each and every beautiful words that you write Loge and sometimes I don't know if I interpret the way you wish it should be. But I find that the statement above is saying that we should not act as gods and are not super human because then in itself we would be commiting sin.

But thanks to the grace and mercy of God, I can express my beliefs without the fear of death. At least in this country that is. There are many parts of the world where people can be killed for admitting they believe in Jesus. I lost a good friend in South America a few years ago who was there as a missionary and he was killed by a group of people there because he was a believer. Dude, if you don't believe in God, that's fine, I have tried to tell you about Him, and that's all I can do. I can't beat you over the head with it. I'll just keep you in my prayers.

WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND WHAT YOU REAP IS WHAT YOU SOW IS A UNIVERSAL LAW IT APPLIES NO MATTER IF YOU ARE RELIGIOUS OR NOT,If you are living your life conciously you will see this as plain as day, 101 Love is sufficent unto itself it needs nothing , you understand things in the context of conditons I speaking of things from the awareness of uncoditional, From that perspective Killin g would never be justified or used as a means of conflict resolution of course there mAy be an exception but rarley, would choose to believe in a God that is Visible and has no secrets, its like letting your kid watch wrestling and wonder why they wrestle or let your kids play violent video games and woinder why they are the school bully, kids do learn by images and the company they keep the bible is the same , the new testament isn't any better Matthew God doesn't grant grace and mercy only the bible would tell you that to keep you thinking you needed something. Belive what you want but you can't expect people who SEE THE truth to pat you on the back its serious stuff religion and dangerous, 101 would you give your daughter matches A nd expect her not to hurt herself, its the same with the bible as a mother I wouldn't let my kids knowingly hurt themselves . Namste sheri

Actually through the grace and mercy of the Deist, Christian and Jewish forefathers of America.

And there are places in many parts of this world where people can be killed for admitting they don't believe in Jesus - I spent some time in Serbia and saw the results of the Christian ethnic cleansing.

I held the body of a two-year old in my arms that was killed by Serbian Christians because her village and family were Moslems, the sword of religious prejudice cuts both ways.

Ah but I do believe in a god, the Deist Creator, and I have tried to show you how patently fake the Christian God is and tell you about the Creator, that is all I can do!

If only the other Christians of this board would be so kind. I promise not to beat your over the head with the Creator.

As long as they are directed to the Creator, I wouldn't want you talking to yourself

Mako, I appreciate it.. You know you're right about it being both ways. Christians are just as bad sometimes. There are tons of radicals out there, I'll admit that. But that's not what the bible teaches. And I know there are radical Muslims out there, and that's not what the Quaran teaches either. I respect what you say brother and I am thankful for good conversation.

Thank God for you Matthewgoad....Seriously....You're trully a blessing.

Sherri I said a non believer even reaps what they sow. Maybe you misread my post. But I seen it plain as day because I wrote it to begin with silly.

I actually wrote this very statement in my post: Even as a non believer a person reaps what they sow.

But I would not allow my child to play with matches. But I do teach her the Bible. I teach her about the fruits of the spirit, Noah and other things. A child understands better then we ever would think. It is not dangerous unless it is used for evil. People don't kill homosexuals anymore because the Bible says so in one verse. They kill becauise they do not condone what they do. That in itself is wrong.

Matthew its by the grace of man you can have beelifs and not die for them but that is not the rule America is no different then ask someone who lives in the white surpremisist area and is black?? ASk the boy that was tortured for being gay Matthew shepard in the U.s. Man has grown very litlte in the wy of Love have you asked Why?? Look to the bible you are only as evolved as the systems you beleive in beleiefs are your behavior. its as simple as that that is why I stand so lound for the end of religion as it currently stands, it needs to be outgrown we need a new religon based in only Uncoditional love what do you stand for??Do you plan to have children?? what kind of legacy do you want to leave them the bible??? It simply shows the cruelty of man who doesn't get his way will do anything to stay in power is this the kind of person you want to be??? God is wearing a costume called man.

I would be honored to have my children grow up reading the bible, knowing about Jesus at an early age. I only wish I could have done that. The bible is wonderful, and I read it as often as I can. I am thankful that the words of Jesus were written down in the bible, just as i write them in my heart as I read them.

101 if this were true that homosexuals were not being killed anymore it is not because of the bible its because of the people who have been outraged by that treatment to anyone, Its beause of the people who have siad the bible is wrong in its teaching of the discrimination of gays , the bible is dangerous and it has been used for evil can you tell me a time when it hasn't been used for evil???

I learned a long time ago that believing in Jesus is not about a religion. I don't care what your religion is. It's about a relationship with Jesus. Knowing Jesus and spending time in prayer with Him is a blessing that I am so very thankful for. I only hope that you can know that blessing for yourself.

No one is truly loved who is restricted in anyway all I can do is share with you what I have come to understand that applys to any of us, I can't and won't seek to impose my ideas my rules or my choices on you! you have to walk your own path, nor do I have any bad feelings towrds you because you make choices I would not make, even though I beleive your choices to be poor ones, I know no other way to be all the best to you Matthew Namaste Sheri

Sherri- how are the fruits of the spirit evil?

How is God's son Jesus evil?

How is all the Bible evil? Just because a person does not believe in Killing because of reasons unknown to me or you and only God doesn't mean it to be evil.

But to some the Bible is perceived evil to me it is a teaching tool.

I am glad that you do not have any bad feelings towards me, nor I you. As neither has done anything to hurt the other, only expressed the views that we believe. And even if you had hurt me, I would forgive you. I am glad that we are able to share our beliefs. I would love to tell you more about the God I know.

“MY FRIEND, there has arisen a satire on your friend: "Behold, walks he not amongst us as if amongst animals?"

“But it is better said in this wise: "The discerning one walks amongst men as amongst animals."

“Man himself is to the discerning one: the animal with red cheeks.

“How has that happened to him? Is it not because he has had to be ashamed too oft?
“O my friends! Thus speaks the discerning one: shame, shame, shame- that is the history of man!

“And on that account does the noble one enjoin on himself not to abash: bashfulness does he enjoin himself in presence of all sufferers.

“I like them not, the merciful ones, whose bliss is in their pity: too destitute are they of bashfulness.

“If I must be pitiful, I dislike to be called so; and if I be so, it is preferably at a distance.

“Preferably also do I shroud my head, and flee, before being recognized: and thus do I bid you do, my friends!

“May my destiny ever lead unafflicted ones like you across my path, and those with whom I may have hope and repast and honey in common!

“I have done this and that for the afflicted: but something better did I always seem to do when I had learned to enjoy myself better.

“Since humanity came into being, man has enjoyed himself too little: that alone, my brothers, is our original sin!

“And when we learn better to enjoy ourselves, then do we unlearn best to give pain to others, and to contrive pain.

“Therefore do I wash the hand that has helped the sufferer; therefore do I wipe also my soul.

“For in seeing the sufferer suffering- thereof was I ashamed on account of his shame; and in helping him, sorely did I wound his pride.

“Great obligations do not make grateful, but revengeful; and when a small kindness is not forgotten, it becomes a gnawing worm.

"Be shy in accepting! Distinguish by accepting!"- thus do I advise those who have naught to give.

“I, however, am a giver: willingly do I give as friend to friends. Strangers, however, and the poor, may pluck for themselves the fruit from my tree: thus does it cause less shame.

“Beggars, however, one should entirely do away with! it annoys one to give to them, and it annoys one not to give to them.

“And likewise sinners and bad consciences! Believe me, my friends: the sting of conscience teaches one to sting.

“The worst things, however, are the petty thoughts. Better to have done evilly than to have thought pettily!

“To be sure, you say: "The delight in petty evils spares one many a great evil deed." But here one should not wish to be sparing.

“Like a boil is the evil deed: it itches and irritates and breaks forth- it speaks honorably.

"Behold, I am disease," says the evil deed: that is its honorableness.

“But like infection is the petty thought: it creeps and hides, and wants to be nowhere- until the whole body is decayed and withered by the petty infection.

“To him however, who is possessed of a devil, I would whisper this word in the ear: "Better for you to rear up your devil! Even for you there is still a path to greatness!"

“Ah, my brothers! One knows a little too much about every one! And many a one becomes transparent to us, but still we can by no means penetrate him.

“It is difficult to live among men because silence is so difficult.

“And not to him who is offensive to us are we most unfair, but to him who does not concern us at all.

“If, however, you have a suffering friend, then be a resting-place for his suffering; like a hard bed, however, a camp-bed: thus will you serve him best.

“And if a friend does you wrong, then say: "I forgive you what you have done to me; that you have done it to yourself, however- how could I forgive that!"

“Thus speaks all great love: it overcomes even forgiveness and pity.

“One should hold fast one's heart; for when one lets it go, how quickly does one's head run away!

“Ah, where in the world have there been greater follies than with the pitiful? And what in the world has caused more suffering than the follies of the pitiful?

“Woe to all loving ones who have not an elevation which is above their pity!

“Thus spoke the devil to me, once on a time: "Even God has his hell: it is his love for man."

“And lately, did I hear him say these words: "God is dead: of his pity for man has God died."-

“So be you warned against pity: from thence there yet comes to men a heavy cloud! I understand weather-signs!

“But attend also to this word: All great love is above all its pity: for it seeks- to create what is loved!

"Myself do I offer to my love, and my neighbor as myself"- such is the language of any Creator.

“All creators, however, are hard. “

101 nice try i didn't say Jesus was evil, I have never said that what I've said is religion has pulverized the teachings of Jesus and turned him into a victim Martyr (same thing)those that claim to write of his teachings not only didn't live at the same time they didn't know him its passed down knowlegde the bible is avery poor source of the teachings of jesus how can you know otherwise you have not explored other sources at least it doesn't appear as you have, go over to etvisitors new pst I forget the name but it has a heart by it and read it that is the teachings of the man called Jesus not the bible, the bible teaches with fear and it teaches to worship, it discriminates against so many things those are enough reasons for me to pass on it as any sort of teaching tool, If I want to be a good person and learn more about love and compassion and myself the bible is the worst source around,It doesn't serve me forthe life i choose to live. It teaches you are not of love thats the evilist idea ever created Its not natural to be love , That has caused more damage and loss of life thatn any of the other equally insane ideas of the bible. Namste sheri

I doubt that Jesus is evil, that which has never existed cannot be good or evil. There are no teachings in your bible that can be actually traced to Jesus, what exists there is documents written between 80 CE and 125 CE. The unknown authors of these documents were writting generations too late to actually record the words of Jesus or the events of his life. Their is no contemporary mention of this man who supposedly performed great miracles, even tho there were many historians and essayists located all around the Mediterranean, that loved stories such as his. The bible per se is not evil,altho many of it's teachings and customs would be considered evil today and all too often it has been used to justify evil. I hope you explain to you child that slavery really isn't a good thing, even tho the bible advocates it.

Thank You Loge, you indeed have a rare perspective of things. But I do enjoy it very much!

God wants us to be happy and to be happy we can pleasure ourselves because not all things that are pleasurable is sin. Love for instance gives great pleasure and is not sin. The same with hospitality.

You Loge are a great guy.

But I also believe that because our society is so liberal, we have forgotten many of the things that God sees as being wrong or sin. We have gone away from what it teaches and the teachings of Jesus. We promote sex on commercials, we promote homosexuality, we promote murder in video games, and I'm sure I can think of some more. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, but I will stand by the teachings in the bible.

You said the Bible was evil thus I thought you said everything in the Bible is evil. I figured you meant Jesus too. But I have not read other sources about Jesus. I am not sure where to begin. I mean shouldn't one totally understand the Bible priior to searching other views.

I have come to turn brother against brother, father against son...If you have no sword, sell you coat and buy one! Kill all the people of that town even their livestock, and I could go on and on....Great teachings aren't they? Do I need to start in on the advocation of slavery?

We do not know all the reasons why God does what He does, but He is God. If we were to know, then we would not need God, we would be equal with God. I can say I don't like some of the things about the killings but God put them there and had them done for a reason.. That reason, I don't know. But who am I to go against God?

God was showing his power.

Can you spell "Blood Thirsty Tyrant"? Maybe God is the Evil one and He has sold all those believing in Xianity that Satan is the evil one!

Why should God want or have to show his power? totally ludicrous!

Maybe you should ask God if you are so curious?

a little story:

I am a bear in the forest and I see another bear we begin to fight. I stand up and roar so loudly that the other bear cowers down. Why did I show my power? Because I can and I want other bears in the forest to know that I am powerful.

Well said 101, I like that.

Thanks.

Anytime

But if you are a bear and the other is only a tiny little chipmunk , you aren't showing your power, you are being a bully:devil: ....Same can be said of your God in that case!:gun:

LAME!

We were created in the image of God. We are God's creation but when God is showing his power he is showing it so we will know what he is capable of. Just as the bear.

What no snappy come back? Actually, my analogy is a lot less lame that what 101 posted. For a stronger entity/person/animal to make a lesser entity/person/animal cower in fear is not showing strength, it is showing personal insecurity. Something that your god seems to have a lot of...since he is constantly demanding praise and worship. And what are those insecure individuals that "show strength"called? Bullies naturally!

In other words he (the stronger insecure one) is being a bully to the creature (the weaker scared one) ! No matter how you try to make it sound nice, he is being a bully!

I do not snap usually unless you really piss me off.

I didn't think my comparsion was lame. I like bears.

But what you think is your own. I am not trying to change it by no means but show you my perspective.

Did I snap at you before (was it the ask God yourself remark?)

The snappy comment thing was aimed at Matt ....a snappy comment is a sometimes funny, usually slightly rude comment that certain people make . Matt has shown himself pretty good at that. You were pretty lame with that bear analogy , it showed how much of a bully you god would be if he wasn't make-believe.