So you honestly, truly feel that god, who you claims loves all, has only one narrow path to his door?
If there is a single creator, then ALL paths lead to him/her/it, no?
Why would god, who created such a diverse and varied universe, require one single way to return to him?
Why, why, why, would god choose to "ONLY" reveal herself to one small nation of people? Why do you and your fellows think that the entire friggin planet was in ignorance, except for "the chosen"? Why wouldn't your god appear to ALL people?
editted for typos
Full Version: There is no god!
QUOTE(?truth? @ Aug 19 2005, 10:03 AM)
faith is not truth
truth is made evedent by faith. ei if you believe in evolution you put your faith in the scientists that explain their findings, or if you are the scientist you put you faith in your own ability the interpret your findings correctly. the only way to know truth with out some aspect of faith. is to witness for you self.
i don't see a message of killing and beleive this is truth
i see and have been shown Gods mercy and love in my life and in the Bible. and know it is truth, then i understand the death in parts of the bible as judgment from a rightious God. just as i some time must punish my daughter, in punishing i show my love for her more than letting her continue it the wrong direction. as she grows in understanding, i punish her less and let her discover things for herself. just like the bible early in the creation God had to Punish more to keep man on the right path untill man grew in his understanding.
[right][snapback]799339[/snapback][/right]
truth is made evedent by faith. ei if you believe in evolution you put your faith in the scientists that explain their findings, or if you are the scientist you put you faith in your own ability the interpret your findings correctly. the only way to know truth with out some aspect of faith. is to witness for you self.
i don't see a message of killing and beleive this is truth
i see and have been shown Gods mercy and love in my life and in the Bible. and know it is truth, then i understand the death in parts of the bible as judgment from a rightious God. just as i some time must punish my daughter, in punishing i show my love for her more than letting her continue it the wrong direction. as she grows in understanding, i punish her less and let her discover things for herself. just like the bible early in the creation God had to Punish more to keep man on the right path untill man grew in his understanding.
[right][snapback]799339[/snapback][/right]
truth you can't be SHOWN God you can only know Godself, you already are mercy and love and life (because you are part of life you are living a life) Faith requires you to beleive in their system look it up, I am merely suggesting you are going about this God thing Backwards. So are you saying that you don't except killing as truth ?? Why are you christian then??? thats what I'm wondering why would you uexcept any book that promotes fear and not consider a path that is only LOve the thing you are to begin with.
Hey when did God become a lady??
QUOTE(matthewgoad @ Aug 19 2005, 10:29 AM)
Hey when did God become a lady??
[right][snapback]799385[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]799385[/snapback][/right]
Matthew discrimination towrds women around here is not exceptable I remind you to talk to me with respect or not at all. Your choice Namaste Sheri
Matthew out of respect for others whose god is a woman or goddess to them god is a woman.
But I don't even know if God really has a gender-or genitals persay. I mean we were made in the image of God so what about us ladies?
But I don't even know if God really has a gender-or genitals persay. I mean we were made in the image of God so what about us ladies?
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Aug 19 2005, 05:33 PM)
QUOTE(matthewgoad @ Aug 19 2005, 10:29 AM)
Hey when did God become a lady??
[right][snapback]799385[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]799385[/snapback][/right]
Matthew discrimination towrds women around here is not exceptable I remind you to talk to me with respect or not at all. Your choice Namaste Sheri
[right][snapback]799390[/snapback][/right]
You go girlie!
101 I'm glad we agree on something thankyou for your support. namaste Sheri
QUOTE
Hey when did God become a lady??
Matt, Head for the hills mate....I learned a long time ago not to teas tigresses! LOL
jmpd i believe God did apear to all people (through creation through Jesus and through the bible, but i also belive that most chose not to see Him. and there by try other methods to save them selfs, or find them selfs, or be them selfs
sherri i believe truth can be shown
faith i beleive reveales truth, faith requires nothing, faith allows me to fear nothing
im guessing by their system you mean the ones who make up religion
my faith lead me to God, which lead me to truth, which lead me to the bible
i accept killings as part of truth (they did happen) were all killings based on religion justified, or ordered by God No, do i believe if God choses to take life he can yes, do i believe he has used man to take live yes, do i completely understand no, do i feel God want me to kill no, if i was i the military and was ordered to kill would i yes
I hope that answers your question on what i beleive, if not ask a way, if you think im wrong i accept that, the feeling is mutual, but no hard feelings
sherri i believe truth can be shown
faith i beleive reveales truth, faith requires nothing, faith allows me to fear nothing
im guessing by their system you mean the ones who make up religion
my faith lead me to God, which lead me to truth, which lead me to the bible
i accept killings as part of truth (they did happen) were all killings based on religion justified, or ordered by God No, do i believe if God choses to take life he can yes, do i believe he has used man to take live yes, do i completely understand no, do i feel God want me to kill no, if i was i the military and was ordered to kill would i yes
I hope that answers your question on what i beleive, if not ask a way, if you think im wrong i accept that, the feeling is mutual, but no hard feelings
Also Matt as Christians our religion is patriarchial. That is why God is a man.
i believe along with Matthew that God is "He", not male not female but "He".
we are both refering to the God of the bible so if you don't beleive in the God of the bible i does not bother me what you beleive your gods gender is.
i didn't see the reference to a female god matthew had a problem with, if it was being use to describe the God we beleive in the i will stand up for that to other wise matthew's on his own
we are both refering to the God of the bible so if you don't beleive in the God of the bible i does not bother me what you beleive your gods gender is.
i didn't see the reference to a female god matthew had a problem with, if it was being use to describe the God we beleive in the i will stand up for that to other wise matthew's on his own
QUOTE(?truth? @ Aug 19 2005, 10:42 AM)
jmpd i believe God did apear to all people (through creation through Jesus and through the bible, but i also belive that most chose not to see Him. and there by try other methods to save them selfs, or find them selfs, or be them selfs
sherri i believe truth can be shown
faith i beleive reveales truth, faith requires nothing, faith allows me to fear nothing
im guessing by their system you mean the ones who make up religion
my faith lead me to God, which lead me to truth, which lead me to the bible
i accept killings as part of truth (they did happen) were all killings based on religion justified, or ordered by God No, do i believe if God choses to take life he can yes, do i believe he has used man to take live yes, do i completely understand no, do i feel God want me to kill no, if i was i the military and was ordered to kill would i yes
I hope that answers your question on what i beleive, if not ask a way, if you think im wrong i accept that, the feeling is mutual, but no hard feelings
[right][snapback]799405[/snapback][/right]
sherri i believe truth can be shown
faith i beleive reveales truth, faith requires nothing, faith allows me to fear nothing
im guessing by their system you mean the ones who make up religion
my faith lead me to God, which lead me to truth, which lead me to the bible
i accept killings as part of truth (they did happen) were all killings based on religion justified, or ordered by God No, do i believe if God choses to take life he can yes, do i believe he has used man to take live yes, do i completely understand no, do i feel God want me to kill no, if i was i the military and was ordered to kill would i yes
I hope that answers your question on what i beleive, if not ask a way, if you think im wrong i accept that, the feeling is mutual, but no hard feelings
[right][snapback]799405[/snapback][/right]
Truth were just rapping about our different pespectives on God, I wan tyou to know straight up you have the god given right to beleive as you choose I respect that, I honor that. Do yo thnk that the bible is the only possible truth in the world??See i don't!!!! I think sacredness is in all things!!! truth is not contained only in one place?? the reason is I have explored and found truth in many places. I feel I would be limiting myself to become dogmatic if i said the Bible is it!!! thats the truth and only the truth, I actually found very little truth in it. as I said truth to me only contains a message of unconditional love no scare tacticss when there are requirements I'm 100% confident it isn't coming from Divinity its coming from somewhere else, my guess is Man. Whats your feelings on this???
QUOTE(?truth? @ Aug 19 2005, 10:49 AM)
i believe along with Matthew that God is "He", not male not female but "He".
we are both refering to the God of the bible so if you don't beleive in the God of the bible i does not bother me what you beleive your gods gender is.
i didn't see the reference to a female god matthew had a problem with, if it was being use to describe the God we beleive in the i will stand up for that to other wise matthew's on his own
[right][snapback]799418[/snapback][/right]
we are both refering to the God of the bible so if you don't beleive in the God of the bible i does not bother me what you beleive your gods gender is.
i didn't see the reference to a female god matthew had a problem with, if it was being use to describe the God we beleive in the i will stand up for that to other wise matthew's on his own
[right][snapback]799418[/snapback][/right]
Matthew is on his own on this one 101 knows me very well and knows how I feel about the "He perspective The bible isn't the biggest supporter of the female energy I know the bible myself Epishians Corintians they are very clear about a womans place and I am pretty sure Matthew was trying to remind me of mine, , That will not work with me I honor the Goddess in myself and in 101 and all other woman. again thankyo 101 for your support Namaste Sherii
We Deists, having no dogma or scripture that the safe (or is it cowardly) way and usually say HE/SHE/IT, so as to indicate no particular sex (or lack of).
and i agree you have the right to beleive what ever you chose, the bible teaches God gave free will.
as far as the bible is conceren i beleive it is the compelte Word of God, is there other truth in the world ofcourse(but i believe all truth goes along with the bible, points to the bible, and to God. i beleive people can find God with out the bible, but i beleive they will then be pointed to the bible to better understand God. i do not believe some one can read the bible, discard the bible and find a diferent truth out side the bible. i dont believe the bible uses scare tactics, like i said i belive it is judge ment, .... if im swiming in the ocean and i stop swimming i will drown, but i don't think that is a scare tactic to keep me swimming, its just a fact. i beleive God is holy and i believe humans are not, i beleive heaven(what ever or where ever that is) is holy and i do not beleive we, unholy humans can be in the presence of God or be in heaven and heaven still be holy, i beleive Jesus came to earth and allowed Him self to die to pay the debt and cover our unholyness in order that we can enter a holy heaven and be in the presence of a holy God. so accepting that sacrafic ... to me... is like grabing on to a lift raft when you can't swim any more.
i hope that explains a little better what i beleive
as far as the bible is conceren i beleive it is the compelte Word of God, is there other truth in the world ofcourse(but i believe all truth goes along with the bible, points to the bible, and to God. i beleive people can find God with out the bible, but i beleive they will then be pointed to the bible to better understand God. i do not believe some one can read the bible, discard the bible and find a diferent truth out side the bible. i dont believe the bible uses scare tactics, like i said i belive it is judge ment, .... if im swiming in the ocean and i stop swimming i will drown, but i don't think that is a scare tactic to keep me swimming, its just a fact. i beleive God is holy and i believe humans are not, i beleive heaven(what ever or where ever that is) is holy and i do not beleive we, unholy humans can be in the presence of God or be in heaven and heaven still be holy, i beleive Jesus came to earth and allowed Him self to die to pay the debt and cover our unholyness in order that we can enter a holy heaven and be in the presence of a holy God. so accepting that sacrafic ... to me... is like grabing on to a lift raft when you can't swim any more.
i hope that explains a little better what i beleive
no problem sherri. 
Well in the bible it refers to God the "Father" and Jesus the "Son" Jesus talks tons of times about his heavenly father. That was my basis for my remark. Just going by what I know. Sorry if I offended you Sheri.
the "He" of God in the bible i beleive is a diferent issue than male and female roles in the bible, and i beleive in OT Isreal and the early christian church women hade more or a role than in most other religions and cultures of the time.
the corinthian verses, in context of the times when the women out side the church were goddesses who were worshiped by men through sexual acts, the women of the church of coranth were given instructions of how to keep them selfs to keep them from being rape by the men out side the church because they mistoke them for goddesses.
just my beleif
the corinthian verses, in context of the times when the women out side the church were goddesses who were worshiped by men through sexual acts, the women of the church of coranth were given instructions of how to keep them selfs to keep them from being rape by the men out side the church because they mistoke them for goddesses.
just my beleif
Matthewgoad: YOUR belief is that god is 'male'.
What use does god have for gender? Not talking about his representatives on earth, but 'god' itself. Or do you visualize god as a giant old man with flowing beard and hair, sitting on a throne?
Going back a bit to what I was saying about many paths: A lot of you Christians like to use allegories of parents and god <"sometimes a parent has to punish a child to show love", etc>, let me ask you this:
Do your parents make you take a single path to get to their home? Do they hide themselves from you, forcing you to search for them? Do they put obstacles in your path that you must overcome to get to their side?
Why then, do you believe that your god would do that? There is an ancient saying "All roads lead to Rome". Perhaps, it is more fitting to state that "All paths lead to god".
Again, so that there is no misunderstanding: Believe what you will, if it brings you comfort. Allow me the same freedom.
good journey
What use does god have for gender? Not talking about his representatives on earth, but 'god' itself. Or do you visualize god as a giant old man with flowing beard and hair, sitting on a throne?
Going back a bit to what I was saying about many paths: A lot of you Christians like to use allegories of parents and god <"sometimes a parent has to punish a child to show love", etc>, let me ask you this:
Do your parents make you take a single path to get to their home? Do they hide themselves from you, forcing you to search for them? Do they put obstacles in your path that you must overcome to get to their side?
Why then, do you believe that your god would do that? There is an ancient saying "All roads lead to Rome". Perhaps, it is more fitting to state that "All paths lead to god".
Again, so that there is no misunderstanding: Believe what you will, if it brings you comfort. Allow me the same freedom.
good journey
Yes Matt God is refered to as father and I call him He but in my own opinion God may be a man but without genitals. Because he is a person who is Godly and needs no specific genitalia. But in a sense God is a man. 
my daughter can take any path she choses to find home but when she finds it she will have to come through the door. and she has find the right house and, to want to come in. and if she walks away from the house she will never find it. and if i give her a map and she reads and choses not to follow it she could end up i ohio which wouldn't do her a like of good
these analoges are fun but i think im rambling, i could go on fror days.
you have the same freedom, we can both beleive what ever we want even if we're both wrong
these analoges are fun but i think im rambling, i could go on fror days.
you have the same freedom, we can both beleive what ever we want even if we're both wrong
""you have the same freedom, we can both beleive what ever we want even if we're both wrong""
And to me, that is part of the journey too.
good journey
And to me, that is part of the journey too.
good journey
Then why are you going against what I said, I didn't see that anything I said was demeaning or pointed anger or blame against anyone or any religion. All I said was that I was referring to what I know from the bible. Nothing more, nothing less. I will let you praise and pray to whoever you want without but if I can do that for you, why have something to say when I say something about God. Is that fair? I am not descriminating against any religion. I guess my remark about since when is God a woman may have been a little rough, and for that I apologize. Feel free to acknowledge whatever greater being, spirit, God, or whoever you think is in charge, but you have something to say when I talk about mine, should I then not be able to say something back? Or is that wrong? If so, please let me know.
101 The God of the bible is not a man but a "He" there is a diference. He is a name just like Father that we can under stand. many of us have fathers, or wish we did that protect us and love us
To me truth saying God is a "he" and not a man makes no sense. I donn't know how that is possible. But that is me. That is what I believe.
I think that I am done with this. Some folks are starting to get thin skinned.
Good night, and have a pleasant weekend all.
good journey.
Good night, and have a pleasant weekend all.
good journey.
I know that I should not reply sometimes in the way I do. That's not very Christian of me, huh? Sorry guys but sometimes I let my temper get the best of me. I'm not perfect, never claimed to be. I know I'm not. I pray that you are able to forgive me.
101 dont take this as me corecting you, im just expaning what i beleive
what i was trying to say is "HE" is discriptive of God all his Names are, they discribe diferent aspects of God, Abba Father, All Mighty, "I AM", Councilor, King, Spirit, Son, Savior, Bread of Life, Creator, Redemer
I beleive he became man as Jesus, but is not a man, even in the bible the earth, the church, and many others are feminine, but not female. Bride of Christ
thats what i was trying to explain
what i was trying to say is "HE" is discriptive of God all his Names are, they discribe diferent aspects of God, Abba Father, All Mighty, "I AM", Councilor, King, Spirit, Son, Savior, Bread of Life, Creator, Redemer
I beleive he became man as Jesus, but is not a man, even in the bible the earth, the church, and many others are feminine, but not female. Bride of Christ
thats what i was trying to explain
Truth I know the names of God and I was just saying that if we call God a He then he must be man or a male figure of sorts. Why else would we call him a he. Also I was saying a man in a sense where he resembled masculine features- I mean the Bible speaks of him in Revelations as a man with hair of wool and eyes of fire. In all descriptions it seems masculine so therefore male.
But He in itself is not a name but a description right?
But He in itself is not a name but a description right?
**Mako gets bowl of popcorn, icy cold Coca Cola, pulls up La-z-boy and prepares to watch the Christians slug it out, ain't life wunnerful!**
It's a joke people, just a joke! Remember y'all are supposed to be on the same side!
It's a joke people, just a joke! Remember y'all are supposed to be on the same side!
mako -debate happens in the curch to
101- the reference in revelation i beleive is Christ
i dont beleive God has form
and yes "He" is discriptive just like all of Gods names
"He" in the bible is capitalized because it is a proper noun the same way "God" is capitolized exept when referencing other or false gods.
"He"is used through out the bible with out reference to who it is refering to other than the fact that it is capitolized.
101- the reference in revelation i beleive is Christ
i dont beleive God has form
and yes "He" is discriptive just like all of Gods names
"He" in the bible is capitalized because it is a proper noun the same way "God" is capitolized exept when referencing other or false gods.
"He"is used through out the bible with out reference to who it is refering to other than the fact that it is capitolized.
Yes love, I know, but you shouldn't argue in front of the children/non-Christians 
Mako,
Well since you took the time to respond to mine, I'll resond to you. All I have to say is everything is just a matter of personal perspective. You seem to be arguing with facts given to you in the schools and history books that are controlled and rewritten by the establishment to make history look justified and and the way they want the masses to think. You assume that you and the public have been given the truth as to why all recent wars have been fought. Don't forget, war is fought by way of deception, and you know what they want you to know. I'm using information that's usually hidden from the masses. It's common to assume that many of the problems are becuase of Christians. You probably think Bush is a Christian, and this war on terrorism is a sort of crusade, by war mongering christians. Just like Kings and Queens are big followers of the occult. Bush, took on the persona of a Christian to get the Religious peoples support. Bush is the knight of Eulogia, he pratices the occult.
Youre right about scientists using more than 5 senses. I thought about that when I was typing, but I was really trying to say people can only use thier five senses normally. Sure you can use night vision and see in the night.
All the proof you can find is in the near death experiance. It has recieved nearly no attention, and is not understood at all by the common man/women. All people who have had them are convinced it's not just a figment of thier imagination, or dying brain. You can think what you want, but they have all the answers because they have experianced it first hand. Some were even dead for days, and then came back to life. There is an afterlife and there is a God. It may sound funny to a rational thinker like yourself, but truth is stranger then fiction.
Think about it. How old is the earth. How long is human history. Maybe 50,000 years. Untill you show me the missing link, don't assume evolution is the answer when people who have died, have been given the answer. Jesus appeared about 2000 years ago. Don't be so selfish that you need God to appear every generation of 20-100 years to reinforce his existance. Besides we are living in the endtimes. Prepare your soul for the second comming in your life time.
You can believe what you want. Six years ago, I didn't have much faith in God, becuase like you I hadn't seen any evidence of his existance. I had to do my own research instead of relying on the establishment to tell me whats true. If you rely on them, you are living a lie. Don't forget we have not had judgement day yet.
Well since you took the time to respond to mine, I'll resond to you. All I have to say is everything is just a matter of personal perspective. You seem to be arguing with facts given to you in the schools and history books that are controlled and rewritten by the establishment to make history look justified and and the way they want the masses to think. You assume that you and the public have been given the truth as to why all recent wars have been fought. Don't forget, war is fought by way of deception, and you know what they want you to know. I'm using information that's usually hidden from the masses. It's common to assume that many of the problems are becuase of Christians. You probably think Bush is a Christian, and this war on terrorism is a sort of crusade, by war mongering christians. Just like Kings and Queens are big followers of the occult. Bush, took on the persona of a Christian to get the Religious peoples support. Bush is the knight of Eulogia, he pratices the occult.
Youre right about scientists using more than 5 senses. I thought about that when I was typing, but I was really trying to say people can only use thier five senses normally. Sure you can use night vision and see in the night.
All the proof you can find is in the near death experiance. It has recieved nearly no attention, and is not understood at all by the common man/women. All people who have had them are convinced it's not just a figment of thier imagination, or dying brain. You can think what you want, but they have all the answers because they have experianced it first hand. Some were even dead for days, and then came back to life. There is an afterlife and there is a God. It may sound funny to a rational thinker like yourself, but truth is stranger then fiction.
Think about it. How old is the earth. How long is human history. Maybe 50,000 years. Untill you show me the missing link, don't assume evolution is the answer when people who have died, have been given the answer. Jesus appeared about 2000 years ago. Don't be so selfish that you need God to appear every generation of 20-100 years to reinforce his existance. Besides we are living in the endtimes. Prepare your soul for the second comming in your life time.
You can believe what you want. Six years ago, I didn't have much faith in God, becuase like you I hadn't seen any evidence of his existance. I had to do my own research instead of relying on the establishment to tell me whats true. If you rely on them, you are living a lie. Don't forget we have not had judgement day yet.
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Aug 20 2005, 03:17 AM)
So you honestly, truly feel that god, who you claims loves all, has only one narrow path to his door?
[right][snapback]799365[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]799365[/snapback][/right]
That's what the Bible says. It even uses the term "narrow path". It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for the rich to enter heaven. Christians believe the Bible, and so believe this too.
Regards, PA
Edit: On the point of God being "He", remember God is not human. He is a spirit entity (at least the one described in the Bible). Just because it uses the term "he" does not make God man, any more than the denial thereof makes God female.
Are ships women? Captain's of sailing boats always call their ship "She". Are we to assume they are women too. Of course not.
The whole "is God male" debate is absolutely pointless, in my opinion
This goes to Psuedomorhp......who said "Im an atheist, a hard core athiest"........what exactly is a "hard core" atheist?
PA well i suppose then that gives christians an excuse to do nothing with their lives since if they make money they are damned to hell?
So basically the churches can say give us your money so you don't become rich and can go to heaven?
good idea
So basically the churches can say give us your money so you don't become rich and can go to heaven?
good idea
PA IMO Its not very efficent or rewarding to "battle sin" and get into a struggle with the self and use ones "will power" to overcome defects and thus get into "heaven"!! those are traps that bind the mind in dualistic error. the Path out of conflict is not in trying to get rid of the negative but in choosing and embracing the positive, Posititvity often automatically resolves moral dilemas. truly living a spriitual life leaves behind condemnnation and the hate that comes with it. That is how I would interperet" Its easier to get a camel into the eye of a needle......
Heaven is a metaphor as is Hell and many of the bibles messages are not meant to be literal but to be looked deeply into through the eyes of love (unconditional only) If you are seeing anything else you are misinterpreting, and no one wants to lead others down the wrong path> Just my 2 cents. Namaste sheri
Heaven is a metaphor as is Hell and many of the bibles messages are not meant to be literal but to be looked deeply into through the eyes of love (unconditional only) If you are seeing anything else you are misinterpreting, and no one wants to lead others down the wrong path> Just my 2 cents. Namaste sheri
QUOTE(matthewgoad @ Aug 18 2005, 10:06 AM)
It's much easier to believe that there is no God or God is fake. If that's your way of thinking, it allows you a safety to continue living the way that you are. It allows you to sin, and not feel guilty about it. It allows you to be as promiscuous as you see fit with no accountability. Your rant did nothing to sway my beliefs, as I would expect that what I say may not change your beliefs. I respect your opinion, but as a Christian, I can't say that I agree with it. If you would like to talk about our differences sometime, please let me know. Always up for a good discussion.
[right][snapback]797532[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]797532[/snapback][/right]
If that is indeed the case, why are there so many people who profess a strong belief in God, and go and sin in spite of that said belief? There are people like myself who profess no belief in God, and have higher standards of behavior than most who profess a strong belief in God. When I was younger, I didn't have casual sex for what was to me the best of reasons . . . I couldn't bear having a child that I couldn't rear, and I hadn't found someone I wanted to marry. That kept me in a chaste condition, but I knew many of Christians who were taught that pre-marital sex was a sin (and a big one) but their "faith" didn't prevent them from having it in the least way . . . oh, perhaps they felt "guilty" about it, but that guilt didn't deter them. Why does not people's faith keep them from sinning? To date, I have not known anyone whose faith did so. In fact, "faith" doesn't even keep those who preach it from sinning. It makes them do their utmost to prevent others from finding out that they sin, but they sin on in secret. I think little of people who profess this and that to be sins, and go out and do those things anyway. That "the spirit is willing but the body is weak" is nothing but a cop out as far as I am concerned. In short, if it is faith which will keep people from sinning (as you say), then why doesn't it work?
QUOTE(longliveozzy @ Aug 20 2005, 02:33 AM)
This goes to Psuedomorhp......who said "Im an atheist, a hard core athiest"........what exactly is a "hard core" atheist?
[right][snapback]800470[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]800470[/snapback][/right]
I think it means he has a belief, just like everyone else. Some believe their is a God, some don't. They are both beliefs, just like I believe I will have another beer
QUOTE(bacca @ Aug 20 2005, 11:18 PM)
PA well i suppose then that gives christians an excuse to do nothing with their lives since if they make money they are damned to hell?
So basically the churches can say give us your money so you don't become rich and can go to heaven? good idea
[right][snapback]800848[/snapback][/right]
So basically the churches can say give us your money so you don't become rich and can go to heaven?
good idea [right][snapback]800848[/snapback][/right]
You misunderstand the reason why I posted this. I wasn't saying you couldn't be rich. The quote I used came from a passage where a rich man went to Jesus and asked him what he must do to inherit eternal life. And Jesus lists the last six of the ten commandments, which the rich man said he had done his whole life. Jesus then said he lacks something - he must sell all his belonging and give it to the poor.
Now, contrary to some people claiming this as a command for all people to give away their money and be poor, Jesus is just giving us some biblical truths. You see, the last six commandments are all physical things - things we do to live a good life (honour your father and mother, do not steal, murder etc). The first four commandments are God centred (Have no other gods before me, do not make idols etc).
The rich man had done all the physical things to inherit eternal life, but Jesus saw that this man valued his riches more than he did God. Essentially, this passage acts as a warning to put God first in all things and if there is something in the way, get rid of it.
So back on topic, I posted that quote to emphasize how narrow the path is according to the Bible - Jesus finishes off that section of the passage by saying "With man, this is impossible. With God, all things are possible".
Regards, PA
I personally KNOW god exists. Why? Because I have actually felt the spirit of the holy ghost. He made me know things that were about to happen so that I could intervene. This kid and me were riding bikes a while back, and he was riding so careless. All of a sudden, I KNEW he was going to get ran over if he didn't slow down. So of course I screamed at him to slow down, lest he be smitten. He didn't listen and was ran over. Again, I absolutely know 100% sure in my heart that he was going to be ran over. I didn't see the car that ran him over before he was ran over so dont try to tell me I just saw the car coming at him. There is no other way that I could have, literally in an instant, just known for sure. I also know for sure because of things that have happened to my sister. Also, because of those people who's cancer literally goes away for no reason.
QUOTE
I personally KNOW god exists. Why? Because I have actually felt the spirit of the holy ghost.
did it come up and tap you on the shoulder and say "hello, i am the holy ghost"?
my point is that you experienced something but what you attribute that something to is purely speculative. Others attribute the same types of experiences to "spidey sense", "intuition", other gods, aliens, etc. (it has a lot to do with how superstitious/anecdotal one is as well as the mythological history of the individual. one won't be attributing it to a creature they have never heard of!)
It is also important to note that in these types of events, people tend to amplify the memories of positive correlations, and downplay negative correlations. people all the time feel like something is going to happen, and then it doesn't, and they forget about it. When they feel something is going to happen and it does though, they immediately assign premonition to it and don't even consider co-incidence (or all the incorrect "feelings").
PA Jesus would not of given a message as the one you said, the reason I say this is because his message was one of unconditional love only, which defined is love without conditions, IMO Namaste Sheri
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Aug 21 2005, 03:43 PM)
QUOTE
I personally KNOW god exists. Why? Because I have actually felt the spirit of the holy ghost.
did it come up and tap you on the shoulder and say "hello, i am the holy ghost"?
my point is that you experienced something but what you attribute that something to is purely speculative. Others attribute the same types of experiences to "spidey sense", "intuition", other gods, aliens, etc. (it has a lot to do with how superstitious/anecdotal one is as well as the mythological history of the individual. one won't be attributing it to a creature they have never heard of!)
It is also important to note that in these types of events, people tend to amplify the memories of positive correlations, and downplay negative correlations. people all the time feel like something is going to happen, and then it doesn't, and they forget about it. When they feel something is going to happen and it does though, they immediately assign premonition to it and don't even consider co-incidence (or all the incorrect "feelings").
[right][snapback]802251[/snapback][/right]
Yes, and I attribute that something to god.
Because the feeling wasn't one horror, it was like, one of truth. I know what you are talking about when you say I amplified a positive feeling of the future but I have actually done that before and this is not the same thing. This wasn't my mind figuring it out. When my mind does that it is NEVER 100% sure/certain like it was this time. Something told me this.
what would be fascinating, lonely, is if you had never heard of the holy ghost before this event. Studying people that have had your type of experience yet attribute the communication (by name) to something that they definitely have never heard of (well, as definite as can be determined, as well as all people they have been in contact with) before would be an interesting area of parapsych to do research in (if it wasn't for the fact it is not viewed as real science).
don't forget that certianty is relative in such subjective reports.
don't forget that certianty is relative in such subjective reports.
QUOTE
You can believe what you want. Six years ago, I didn't have much faith in God, becuase like you I hadn't seen any evidence of his existance. I had to do my own research instead of relying on the establishment to tell me whats true. If you rely on them, you are living a lie. Don't forget we have not had judgement day yet.
At the rate your Savior keeps his prophecies, we probably never will!
QUOTE
You seem to be arguing with facts given to you in the schools and history books that are controlled and rewritten by the establishment.
Much of my information comes from the works of the original church fathers and the historians, essayist, etc that wrote during the period of the 1st thru 5 century. My more recent material comes from various sources, both contemporary to the subject being discussed and more recent studies of that subject.
QUOTE
Don't forget, war is fought by way of deception, and you know what they want you to know.
You realize, of course, that you are telling this to a person that has spent 3 decades in the intelligence community both military and civilian. To finish your statement, you know what they want you to know and what you can dig out through espinoge and overt intelligent efforts.
QUOTE
You probably think Bush is a Christian, and this war on terrorism is a sort of crusade, by war mongering Christians
No I blame this war on Big Oil! They have just managed to delude the Christians into supporting them.
QUOTE
Just like Kings and Queens are big followers of the occult
Sorry, last time I checked, the Kings and Queens (up until very recently) owed their power to the Christian religion and were “devout” Christians. If you have any verifiable information on that matter, please offer it up, else your statement above is only a personal opinion.
QUOTE
All people who have had them are convinced it's not just a figment of thier imagination, or dying brain
Yes, and all the people, who during the experiment of stimulation of the pineal glands, had hallucinations, visions and “religious’ experiences, were convinced that it wasn’t a figment of their imaginations; at least until the pineal was stimulated again with the resulting second experience. I don’t know what NDE is, like you, I don’t think it is the result of a dying brain, but I also don’t see that NDE proves that YOUR god exists.
QUOTE
Think about it. How old is the earth. How long is human history. Maybe 50,000 years.
Around 4-6 billion years for the planet and around 500,000 (not a paltry 50,000) for the Homo line. I never argue about evolution, those that are so ill educated to believe creationism are not going to understand the science involved to explain the evidence for evolution, so why bother. A converging thought, disproving evolution does not automatically make creationism the correct theory, in fact it throws it further into question.
QUOTE
Jesus appeared about 2000 years ago
Give me some verifiable contemporary secular proof of that statement (contemporary means while Jesus was supposedly alive, not 2, 10, 30, 40, 100 years later).
QUOTE
Don't be so selfish that you need God to appear every generation of 20-100 years to reinforce his existance. Besides we are living in the endtimes. Prepare your soul for the second comming in your life time.
I don’t require the Creator to appear every generation, I would like for your god to appear once, we have no evidence of his ever having come even once. According to the anonymous authors of your gospels, he told his disciples that he would return before that generation died, and it’s 2000 years later, with no appearance….looks like he was a false prophet! Maybe you better think about joining us Deists, our Creator doesn’t make false promises.
WHAT ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF? 
QUOTE(WongFeiHung @ Aug 4 2005, 10:48 PM)
Ok, before any of you religious people come in here and start saying how I'm going to go to hell, and turned into salt or whatever, read this WHOLE thing.
(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)
I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.
The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!
And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!
The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."
I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.
[right][snapback]773492[/snapback][/right]
(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)
I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.
The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!
And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!
The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."
I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.
[right][snapback]773492[/snapback][/right]
hole #1: what do you believe in exactly?
hole #2: why do you care what we believe in?
hole #3: why do you feel it is your duty to ask the questions all the time (why don't you listen and consider for a change? Even if some people don't, you don't have to sink to their level. didn't your mom teach you anything????
hole #4: you could be relaxing on a beach or something somewhere, but instead you waste your time insulting Christians and trying to ruin their life. I, on the other hand, have a reason to post, because I care about God and Christians and believe in such a thing called purpose so much that i will tell the world about God, love, and purpose.
hole #5: why are there so many holes in your post? i'm getting lost.....you like holes don't you??? you know there are some holes that not even light can reach the bottom of. don't go too deep now, ya hear???
QUOTE
You realize, of course, that you are telling this to a person that has spent 3 decades in the intelligence community both military and civilian. To finish your statement, you know what they want you to know and what you can dig out through espinoge and overt intelligent efforts.
No, I had no idea. If so, you know that everything is compartmentalilzed. How high of a classification clearence or what kind of clearence, Secret, top secret, crypto... etc did/do you have?
You should know that just because you are in the inteligence community, that doesn't mean you are given all the correct information also. Have you seen the press conference for the disclosure project? In it, speakers talk about how thier coworkers are not allowed to learn about the UFOs NASA, knows about, but they are. You are given what you need to do your job. Nice try though.
QUOTE
Just like Kings and Queens are big followers of the occult
Sorry, last time I checked, the Kings and Queens (up until very recently) owed their power to the Christian religion and were “devout” Christians. If you have any verifiable information on that matter, please offer it up, else your statement above is only a personal opinion.
Sorry, last time I checked, the Kings and Queens (up until very recently) owed their power to the Christian religion and were “devout” Christians. If you have any verifiable information on that matter, please offer it up, else your statement above is only a personal opinion.
Many kings and queens especially in Brittain, are also freemasons. Freemasons is more than just a social club. The occult runs rampant in the European establishment. In my opinion, if you are a true Christian, you should not be involved in freemasonry.
QUOTE
All people who have had them are convinced it's not just a figment of thier imagination, or dying brain
Yes, and all the people, who during the experiment of stimulation of the pineal glands, had hallucinations, visions and “religious’ experiences, were convinced that it wasn’t a figment of their imaginations; at least until the pineal was stimulated again with the resulting second experience. I don’t know what NDE is, like you, I don’t think it is the result of a dying brain, but I also don’t see that NDE proves that YOUR god exists.
Yes, and all the people, who during the experiment of stimulation of the pineal glands, had hallucinations, visions and “religious’ experiences, were convinced that it wasn’t a figment of their imaginations; at least until the pineal was stimulated again with the resulting second experience. I don’t know what NDE is, like you, I don’t think it is the result of a dying brain, but I also don’t see that NDE proves that YOUR god exists.
Yes, but they didn't travel to different rooms, experiance coversations and then come back to life or consoiusness, and then tell what they heard in the other room and later have it verified by the people having the conversation.
Sure you can make the brain have hallucinations, that's easy.
QUOTE
Think about it. How old is the earth. How long is human history. Maybe 50,000 years.
Around 4-6 billion years for the planet and around 500,000 (not a paltry 50,000) for the Homo line. I never argue about evolution, those that are so ill educated to believe creationism are not going to understand the science involved to explain the evidence for evolution, so why bother. A converging thought, disproving evolution does not automatically make creationism the correct theory, in fact it throws it further into question.
Jesus appeared about 2000 years ago
Give me some verifiable contemporary secular proof of that statement (contemporary means while Jesus was supposedly alive, not 2, 10, 30, 40, 100 years later).
Around 4-6 billion years for the planet and around 500,000 (not a paltry 50,000) for the Homo line. I never argue about evolution, those that are so ill educated to believe creationism are not going to understand the science involved to explain the evidence for evolution, so why bother. A converging thought, disproving evolution does not automatically make creationism the correct theory, in fact it throws it further into question.
Jesus appeared about 2000 years ago
Give me some verifiable contemporary secular proof of that statement (contemporary means while Jesus was supposedly alive, not 2, 10, 30, 40, 100 years later).
Give me some proof Jesus never existed. Just because in you mind thier is lack of proof, doesn't mean thier is no proof.
QUOTE
Don't be so selfish that you need God to appear every generation of 20-100 years to reinforce his existance. Besides we are living in the endtimes. Prepare your soul for the second comming in your life time.
I don’t require the Creator to appear every generation, I would like for your god to appear once, we have no evidence of his ever having come even once. According to the anonymous authors of your gospels, he told his disciples that he would return before that generation died, and it’s 2000 years later, with no appearance….looks like he was a false prophet! Maybe you better think about joining us Deists, our Creator doesn’t make false promises.
I don’t require the Creator to appear every generation, I would like for your god to appear once, we have no evidence of his ever having come even once. According to the anonymous authors of your gospels, he told his disciples that he would return before that generation died, and it’s 2000 years later, with no appearance….looks like he was a false prophet! Maybe you better think about joining us Deists, our Creator doesn’t make false promises.
I'll never go back into the darkness. Been there done that. It was lame.
All I can say is that life on earth is but a blink of the eye in the spiritual realm (our true home) that will be nothing to the lenth of eternaty which we all are a part of.
Shouldn't this conspiracy bushwa be in the appropriate forum?
Its not like we don't already have enough contraversy with religion alone, right?
Its not like we don't already have enough contraversy with religion alone, right?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.