PA Jesus would not of given a message as the one you said, the reason I say this is because his message was one of unconditional love only, which defined is love without conditions,  IMO Namaste Sheri
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oh i'm sorry. i didn't mean to be so mean

you believe in something, but don't have the balls to admit it.

so you take your frustrations in our belief on us, because you don't understand how people could love.

You did know that if you love someone, then that means you would die for them

you would know that the 'so called bloodthirsty God we worship' is really a loving God

Get over yourself hypocrite

who has been misunderstood even by many Christians (Crusades and Spanish Inquisition) violent men do blood thirsty deeds, not the God they worship.

If you are then maybe you should consider the possiblity that believe in God, my God. you should atleast think about which God is the correct God. do whatever, i won't judge.

How high of a classification clearence or what kind of clearence, Secret, top secret, crypto... etc did/do you have?

You should know that just because you are in the inteligence community, that doesn't mean you are given all the correct information also. Have you seen the press conference for the disclosure project? In it, speakers talk about how thier coworkers are not allowed to learn about the UFOs NASA, knows about, but they are. You are given what you need to do your job. Nice try though.

Yes, but they didn't travel to different rooms, experiance coversations and then come back to life or consoiusness, and then tell what they heard in the other room and later have it verified by the people having the conversation.

Sure you can make the brain have hallucinations, that's easy.

Give me some proof Jesus never existed. Just because in you mind thier is lack of proof, doesn't mean thier is no proof.

I'll never go back into the darkness. Been there done that. It was lame.

All I can say is that life on earth is but a blink of the eye in the spiritual realm (our true home) that will be nothing to the lenth of eternaty which we all are a part of.

Ya know, sometimes, I really wish the creator would show him/her self to the world.

Even if its to point to all the religions of the world, and say
"boy did you guys misunderstand my message"

All this wrangling and fussing over the interpretation of god.  Why didn't godself appear to ALL people EVERYWHERE in the same form?  Why did tribes all over the planet come up with different belief systems?  If {fill in the religious belief} were the "correct" one, why didn't it spring up everywhere without being imported to the natives?  Why would god wait for untold generations before revealing the 'truth' to a small tribe in the middle east?

Perhaps, god appears to people in a form that they can readily accept.  I believe that the 'test' is to be able to work through our differences of belief, and grow.  Not the last religion standing.

But I'm sure that there will be a slew of folks pointing out that these questions cannot be answered because "god works in mysterious ways".  Funny how so many people can ascribe HUMAN emotions to a deity, yet the really important questions are unfathomable.

good journey
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Naw, you weren’t being mean, you were just being the typical Christian Ass.

Oh but I do believe in a deity and practice the tenets of my belief.

I have no frustrations, but you sure seem to. I belittle your superstition because it is illogical and has perpetrated more evil in this world than any other belief system (including it’s closest rival – Communism) in history! If what you, personally, spew to the public is love, I would not want to see what you consider hate and prejudice!

As a retired military member who for a quarter of a century put his life on the line (two tours in RVN, 428 combat missions, the Grenada Operation and the Noreiga Operation in Panama) for love of country, people and family, I think I know a little about the power of love and guess what! I ain’t no Christian!

I turn to your own book of mythology for the answer:
Genesis 3:16, 7:4, 19:24, 9:22-25; Exodus 4:21, 4:23-24, 7:3, 7:13, 9:12, 10:1, 10:20, 10:27, 11:10, 12:29-30, 14:4, 14:8, 14:27-28, 20:5, 21:2, 21:7, 21:15, 21:20-21, 22:18, 22:20, 31:14-15, 32:27, 34:7, 35:2; Leviticus 10:1-2, 19:20, 20:9-12; 20:27; 21:9, 21:16-23, 24:16-24, 25:45-46, 26:22, 26:29; Numbers 1:51, 3:4, 3:10, 3:38, 4:15-18, 11:1, 11:33, 12:9-10, 14:14, 14:18, 15 32:26, 16 27-35, 16:41-50, 18:7, 21:9,25:4, 25:9, 26:10, 26:10, 26:61 , 31:14-18; Deuteronomy 13:1-10, 13:12-16, 17:2-7, 21:11-15, 21:18-21, 22-13-21, 22:22-24, 23:2, 25:11-12, 28:15-68, 32:23-25; Joshua 6:21, 7:24-26, 8;24-40, 10:10-14, 11:8-21; Judges 1:6-7, 3:8, 3:31, 4:2, 4:17-23, 5:24-26, 5:30, 7:21, 8:7, 8:16-17, 10:7, 11:29-39, 14:6, 14:19, 15:14-16; 1 Samuel 5:9, 6:19, 15:3, 15:11, 15:18, 25:22, 26:24, 27:8-11; 2 Samuel 6:6-7, 12:11-12, 12:15-18, 16:21-22, 24:1-15; 1 Kings 14:10, 16:11, 15:29, 20:28, 21:13, 21:21, 21:29, 22:22-23; 2Kings 1:10-12, 5:27, 6:18, 8:1, 9:8, 10:7-8, 10:16-17, 10:30, 17:25-26, 19:35; 1 Chronicles 13:9-10, 20:3, 21:1-14; 2 Chronicles 13:15:20, 14:8-13, 15:13, 18:22, 19:2, 21 14-19, 25:11-12, 26:19-21,28:6-8, 36:16-17…..these show how loving and how blood-thirsty your god is. And since supposedly “The Lord Thy God” is “never changing”, that is what you are groveling before today too!

To which I reply, “get over yourself ignorant and hypocritical Christian”, although I can’t really understand why I am a hypocrite, just because I do not subscribe to your superstition.

Look at the very partial list of atrocities above that were committed by your god or by his representative….Maybe the Crusades, Inquisition, witch and heretic burnings, enslavement of the Africans, theft of the lands of the Native Americans, Africans, India Indians, Pilipino, etc, were the acts of good Christians emulating their blood-thirsty god!

I have and it sure isn’t your blood-thirsty god! Maybe you should consider leaving all that evil and coming over to my loving Creator! I can just feel the love in all your posts, ain't Christianity just wonderful - NOT!
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By that argument 101, that would imply that many religions were 'set up' to confuse people long before christianity or judaism.

And, for what purpose would god try to 'confuse' people?  It goes against the message of the NT that god wants all to worship him.

My point being that each of us has a path.  Your path may take you in a different direction than me, for a while, but they all ultimately lead to godself.


But I know that my words will not cause any here to stop arguing on the way to godself.  But it sure is amusing to watch.


good journey
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Well it isn't God who is confusing us but Satan. The father of lies and he decieves us. But I got a question about something if anyone can answer. I know that in the OT that the people were under the law and practiced serving God that way. What do we call this a religion or just serving God?

But how can all paths lead to God? It seems confusing to me. Because as a Christian I know of what they call the narrow path is tyhe way to God. A lot of people follow the broader path because it is easier. If we were to travel a different path then how can we meet back to God. Maybe it is just how your belief works?
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Ah, but Jesus did give this message. At least he did in the Bible (Mark 10:17-27). How can you say Jesus teaches one thing and then dismiss anything which is contrary to that? Just a thought.

Regards, PA
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Actually, I have a strong relationship with god.

And, prior to this time in my life, I've experienced the RC version, Protestantism, and Episcopalian.

Then I realized, that I don't need an organization to reach god.
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To outgrow a creator to me is saying that maybe you have no use for your mother or father even. Maybe you are all grown up but you still love them and need them. 
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I think you misunderstood:

We don't outgrow the creator, we outgrow the structures of worship.

You instruct your daughter about safety, in terms and examples she can understand, right? Well, when she is older, you would probably explain safety in more complete, and clear terms, no?
Example: you tell your daughter: "don't talk to strangers". You DON'T tell her: "because they may kidnap you, molest you and leave you for dead" because those are terms she may not understand, and you would cause her unneeded fear if you did.

Am I making sense, or am I babbling?



good journey
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Okay, all those references to the Bible you made were not of a blood thirsty God. That just shows how much you look for the bad and leave out the good

Read about Nimrod and the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11. He didn't confuse the languages just because they stayed in one place, he did it for they sought to deny him.

So God found a faithful and OBEDIENT man called Abraham and chose his descendants to inherit a land chosen by God

Now if God decides to drive out wicked non-believers that sacrifice their children to an idol, then it is his choice, not man's

if you knew anything about God's plan

Faith isn't about logic, its about life and love and the glory and praise that belongs to God that he shares with each of us.

You can go on and believe in your god, whom by the way you have not made much mention of. are you ashamed of him?

And may i make it clear that the belief in Christianity is not the source of the bloodshedding that was done all those years during the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition and so on.

  all you do on here is belittle Christians then get enraged when they defend themselves.

That is poor attitude and very childish. Have some dignity. -Gwyny's boyfriend

Great Scott!  I think she's got it!




Thank you 101, that is the point I've been making.
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No, I admit that some weren’t, they were the ones that showed the immoral things that your god advocated, you know – little things like advocating slavery, not letting the handicapped worship in the temple, removing basic rights from women, advocating killing homosexuals (even though he is the one that made them that way), denying castrati’s (no matter whose fault the operation was) the ability to worship in the temple, egging his followers to kill those who follow other religions, to kill those who work on his Sabbath, etc . The rest are the horrendous crimes committed by your god against humans (who have no protection from such a bully) or crimes and atrocities committed by his direction by his henchmen. as for good, what good, the total enslavement of a group of barbarians by a blood-thirsty demon?

You expect me to accept mythology. First and foremost, if you will check Genesis 10:5, 10:20, 10:31, you will see that the different people spoke different languages. Only in the next chapter does it say there was only one language. This shows the very unreliability of your book of fairy tales. Dang, even the Brothers Grimm kept their fairy tales consistent with no contradictions, yet you want us to believe that your invisible guy-in-the-sky doesn’t make mistakes. Now before your say it was a “prequel”, show me where it says that….Not allowed to read stuff into “God’s Holy Word” *snicker*

What you really mean is that God found the perfect little Quisling to inflict himself upon and to lay the job of producing a nation upon for god to enslave! Sure wish you Cultists would learn to say what things really are.

The only time I have ever seen “wicked non-believers” driven out, it was usually by Christians that wanted their wealth, their land and their children as slaves…in other words, emulating their big bad sky bully!

No I know nothing of God's plan and neither do you. You are only taking the word of men that have been dead 2000 to 2800 years. Doesn’t same much for your ability to tell reality from pretend.

No, faith is totally illogical, usually wrong and always used to manipulate the gullible. Love and glory have nothing to do with faith. Why praise and love a god whose only positive act was to create the world, since then he seems to have been like a kid with a magnifying glass tormenting an ant hill on a sunny day. At least that is what I see of YOUR false god.

You go ahead and believe in your blood-thirsty demon, whom you seem to have to have a name for (another sign he is man-made – notice all the gods that you sneer at and say are man made, past and present, have names) My Creator has no man-made names and needs none – too bad about yours.

And may I make it clear that all that was done in the name of Jesus by people who believed they were doing his bidding, based on the blood-lust demonstrated in his Holy book of mythology. Your god and your religion has a lot of evil to answer for and you can’t tap-dance around it. If you are so bedazzled that you accept that evil, then you have my total sympathy and the sympathy of all right thinking, moral people. Your agrument is like saying that the holocaust wasn't perpetrated by Hitler, only those evil people who claimed to follow him!

So now pointing out the inconsistencies of your religion becomes belittling, yet you can accuse me of being ashamed of my Creator….seems like a double standard to me. If your religion wasn’t so patently false and illogical, I would not be able to belittle it. I only carry the torch handed the skeptics of Christianity by Origen and others. Don’t like it, deal with it!

Oh I am childish, because I can’t accept your superstition as the truth…well Gwyny’s boyfriend, read between the lines!
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No, I admit that some weren’t, they were the ones that showed the immoral things that your god advocated, you know – little things like advocating slavery, not letting the handicapped worship in the temple, removing basic rights from women, advocating killing homosexuals (even though he is the one that made them that way), denying castrati’s (no matter whose fault the operation was) the ability to worship in the temple, egging his followers to kill those who follow other religions, to kill those who work on his Sabbath, etc . The rest are the horrendous crimes committed by your god against humans (who have no protection from such a bully) or crimes and atrocities committed by his direction by his henchmen. as for good, what good, the total enslavement of a group of barbarians by a blood-thirsty demon?

You expect me to accept mythology. First and foremost, if you will check Genesis 10:5, 10:20, 10:31, you will see that the different people spoke different languages. Only in the next chapter does it say there was only one language. This shows the very unreliability of your book of fairy tales. Dang, even the Brothers Grimm kept their fairy tales consistent with no contradictions, yet you want us to believe that your invisible guy-in-the-sky doesn’t make mistakes. Now before your say it was a “prequel”, show me where it says that….Not allowed to read stuff into “God’s Holy Word” *snicker*

What you really mean is that God found the perfect little Quisling to inflict himself upon and to lay the job of producing a nation upon for god to enslave! Sure wish you Cultists would learn to say what things really are.

The only time I have ever seen “wicked non-believers” driven out, it was usually by Christians that wanted their wealth, their land and their children as slaves…in other words, emulating their big bad sky bully!

No I know nothing of God's plan and neither do you. You are only taking the word of men that have been dead 2000 to 2800 years. Doesn’t same much for your ability to tell reality from pretend.

No, faith is totally illogical, usually wrong and always used to manipulate the gullible. Love and glory have nothing to do with faith. Why praise and love a god whose only positive act was to create the world, since then he seems to have been like a kid with a magnifying glass tormenting an ant hill on a sunny day. At least that is what I see of YOUR false god.

You go ahead and believe in your blood-thirsty demon, whom you seem to have to have a name for (another sign he is man-made – notice all the gods that you sneer at and say are man made, past and present, have names) My Creator has no man-made names and needs none – too bad about yours.

And may I make it clear that all that was done in the name of Jesus by people who believed they were doing his bidding, based on the blood-lust demonstrated in his Holy book of mythology. Your god and your religion has a lot of evil to answer for and you can’t tap-dance around it. If you are so bedazzled that you accept that evil, then you have my total sympathy and the sympathy of all right thinking, moral people. Your agrument is like saying that the holocaust wasn't perpetrated by Hitler, only those evil people who claimed to follow him!

So now pointing out the inconsistencies of your religion becomes belittling, yet you can accuse me of being ashamed of my Creator….seems like a double standard to me. If your religion wasn’t so patently false and illogical, I would not be able to belittle it. I only carry the torch handed the skeptics of Christianity by Origen and others. Don’t like it, deal with it!

Oh I am childish, because I can’t accept your superstition as the truth…well Gwyny’s boyfriend, read between the lines!
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there is that one little problem. you keep rationalizing a God. why? who are you to say how things should be?

Oh, did you know that most of the ethical system that we follow today was derived from philosophers who (Get This...) believed in some god and some organized religion

Really, who are you to judge

And you really think that ALL of the people that committed those blood thirsty crimes actually believed all they were taught (which wasn't the exact truth or accuracy anyway)??????

it didn't always have to do with religion

So, was it really God and belief, or was it the king and the people.

but i won't hesitate one moment to defend my fellow Christians. They are family to me and I love them. I would die for them that they would see a better life.

i learned the truth of from God. He isn't bloodthirsty

I would respect it if you came clean and admitted that your opinion about God, belief, faith, and religion were all generated from SOME Christians who claimed Jesus, but did nothing to follow him.

It is in respect to peace and love that you not classify everyone based on your own experiences. God bless

To outgrow a creator to me is saying that maybe you have no use for your mother or father even. Maybe you are all grown up but you still love them and need them. 
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Thank you Sherri for the compliment.  Now, if we could just convince people to honor themselves, and each other in the same way, we'd be on the right track.

'Service, Duty, Honor' are my watchwords.  What can I say?




good journey
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My question is this.

You say you believe in a creator, just not the Chistian/Jewish creator. Am I right or wrong? What does your creator teach as spiritual truths. And what proof do you have of your creator?

You of all people should know that, working on classified projects, if you really did. For all I know, you could just be a senial grumpy old man suffering from dementia.

Yes, I believe in the Creator. The Deist Creator does not teach, he demonstrates. Look at this vast wonderful universe that he created, at its “user-friendliness” towards life, its uniform regulation through a set of natural laws that are so infinitely woven together that each supports the other, making the entire group exponentially stronger. Look at this and open your mind, the Creator is demonstrating to you the knowledge of all that was, all that is and all that will be. We Deists have no scriptures, we find the very idea to be ludicrous. An entity so vast and so superior to us, would not attempt to communicate with us. He wants us to learn, to evolve (if you will) in our understanding of this universe; he does not want us to give lip service to him through empty unknowledgeable praises and tedious ceremony. He is the “Great Scientist”, the one who laid the foundations of the universe, set in place the aforementioned natural laws, he who observed the first life that came into being in the seas. He watched this life split, evolve and split again, watched it crawl from the seas and begin the long evolutionary trail to the myriad of life forms of the 21st century. He loves us and he loves knowledge and it is my personal belief that he silently weeps every time some unschooled fundamentalist attacks knowledge because it is perceived as attacking their religion. The Creator is patient and loving and extremely forgiving, he has no Hell. As for proofs of the Creator, I have only the ones that all religions have – belief and whereas yours is supplemented by a book of (I’ll be nice) scriptures, mine is supplemented by observation of the universe and knowledge.

Well, I am a grumpy old man (I’ll never see 60 again) and some seem to think that I am demented, but I don’t believe that I am more than very slightly delusional (as is most people). I can’t give you any real specifics of my work because of security constraints, but I do work within the intel community. I give very little credence to conspiracy theories, the more people involved, the more apt they are to fall apart – just look at Watergate. 9/11 was a matter of the “Brass” falling asleep at the switch and not wanting to admit we were vulnerable to a bunch of “Stone Age Mentality” terrorists!
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Why wouldn't he?

Thank satan I live in the UK