Full Version: There is no god!
Is there any evidence of your Deist God???
The same evidence there is for your god.....None for either....Can't prove or disprove the existence of a god....BUT Deism is supported by science and knowledge, the organized revealed religions are supported only by myth and superstition. 
QUOTE(mako @ Aug 25 2005, 07:10 PM)
The same evidence there is for your god.....None for either....Can't prove or disprove the existence of a god....BUT Deism is supported by science and knowledge, the organized revealed religions are supported only by myth and superstition.
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Huh? I do not understand but I do not know deism anyways. Have deists been around for a long time? Do yall study a book like the Bible? Oh and in another thread you said you do not worship your god. I don't understand why one qwould not worship a god that has created them so to speak.
I cannot answer for mako, but I do not worship my creator, because I believe that the creator and we are as one.
We are each a splinter of god self.
Why then, would your liver worship 'you', if we are all part of the whole?
good journey
We are each a splinter of god self.
Why then, would your liver worship 'you', if we are all part of the whole?
good journey
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Aug 25 2005, 07:22 PM)
I cannot answer for mako, but I do not worship my creator, because I believe that the creator and we are as one.
We are each a splinter of god self.
Why then, would your liver worship 'you', if we are all part of the whole?
good journey
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We are each a splinter of god self.
Why then, would your liver worship 'you', if we are all part of the whole?
good journey
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oh okay. I understand.
But some people do worship thereselves by staring in the mirror. lol.
lol! I've never had that problem. In fact, I avoid mirrors whenever possible. I scare me.
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Aug 25 2005, 07:43 PM)
lol! I've never had that problem. In fact, I avoid mirrors whenever possible. I scare me.
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And um Mrs. D. says your handsome.
101 When I look in the mirror i am grateful the highest form of prayer is Gratitude, not worship, Namaste sheri
I am also greatful for me too. I am lucky because some people are less fortunate then me. Some may not even have clothes that fit or that do not have holes. I am truly blessed myself.
101 thats where we differ i would not feel blessed or lucky because someone has less than I do, If that is the case i would not understand god self at all, i seek to see to it that others feel blessed and lucky also, I am not better or superior at the expense of even one of Gods children. Namaste sheri
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Aug 25 2005, 08:33 PM)
101 thats where we differ i would not feel blessed or lucky because someone has less than I do, If that is the case i would not understand god self at all, i seek to see to it that others feel blessed and lucky also, I am not better or superior at the expense of even one of Gods children. Namaste sheri
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I did not mean it like that.
I am sure everyone is grateful for something. I mean to a person with no clothes at all the person with holey clothes would feel blessed.
The person with no clothes would feel blessed that they are alive.
A person is blessed because of many things. Nothing superior here. Just saying that I am lucky and have nothing to complain about.
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First of all, how would I communicate with the microscopic fauna and flora in my digestive track
My point exactly, you can’t lower your intellect to their level….just as the entity that created the universe, which we can’t even start to fully understand, can not lower it’s intellect to our level. A level that is much lower to him/her/it than a microbe is to us. Thank you for asking that question.
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I obviously didn't create any mice......so comparing the connection of one of God's creations to another in an attempt to show why God wouldn't communicate with his creations doesn't make any sense at all in my opinion.
That is only because you are so blinded by the superstition that you hold. The average person would understand that something so superior to something else would have no desire or reason to communicate with the inferior one.
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Secondly, you continue to refer to acts done in God's name. But that wasn't God that did those things, it was men.
Here is a partial list, separated by what God killed and what God ordered killed, in just the first 9 books of the OT:
God killed: Exodus 12:29-30 14:27-28 Leviticus 10:1-2 26:22 Numbers 11:1 16:27-35, 26:10 16:35, 26:10 16:41-50 21:6 25:9 Joshua 10:10 10:11 11:20 Judges 7:21 1 Samuel 6:19 12:11-12, 12:15-18, 16:21-22 24:1-15
God orders killing: Exodus 21:15 22:18 22:20 31:14-15, 35:2 32:27-28 Leviticus 20:9-12 20:27 21:9 24:16, 24 Numbers 1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:7 31”1-54 Deuteronomy 13:1-5, 18:20 13:6-10, 13:12-16, 17:2-7 21:18-21, 22:22 22:23-24 28:15-68, 32:23-25 Joshua 6:21, 8:24 - 40, 11:8 - 21 7:24-26 Judges 14:6, 14:19, 15:14-16 15:3
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but the fact that there are millions of people all around the world that follow his teachings would seem to suggest that somebody by the name of Jesus presented those teachings in the first place
There billions of people around the world that do not follow his teachings, so that would suggest that he never existed, using your frame of logic. Numbers have nothing to do with whether something is true or not, there are millions of children that believe that Santa Claus exists, but that doesn’t mean that he does.
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People don't just start proclaiming someone is the son of God for no reason
I don’t know, tell that to the people that worshipped the born-of-a-virgin/crucified/resurrecting/ascending/savior man-gods such as Mithra, Krishna, Apollo, Osiris, etc that preceded him. By your reasoning, they too must have been the sons of god.
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Look, the Bible talks about all the places Jesus went......
Actually, using that reasoning, King Lear must have existed, General Maximis of the movie Gladiator must have existed. Even the poorest of fiction writers try to set their dramas against a real background to make them believable.
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if he didn't exist (when the religion first started) people from those areas would be going around telling everyone that it was a fraud, that no one called Jesus ever came to their city.....but no one did that
Since none of the stories you find in the gospels wouldn’t have been passed around until several decades after the destruction of the temple and the scattering of many of the Jews, people wouldn’t have known what words or actions were attributed to Jesus. By the time that the gospels became better known (remember, there were no gospels mentioned until 150 CE, over a century after the destruction of the temple), any one who would have been a witness was long dead Very convenient for the early Church, since no one could check out the facts of what was or wasn’t said or done by Jesus. Even his existence couldn’t be checked, the burning of the temple would have solved that problem! That is simply why no one did that! I hope you understand now.
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if the guy didn't exist the Romans could have extinguished the Christian religion pretty quickly, but they didn't
Nor did they extinguish the Mithrian religion or any of the other religions competing with the Roman official religions, unlike the later Christian overlords of the faltering and crumbling (mainly because of Christian actions) Empire, the Roman Empire was very tolerant of religions. Even those that could be troublesome, they put up with the Jews for over a century and would have continued to if the Jews hadn’t openly rebelled. Why would they want to extinguish a religion? Their very openness to religions guaranteed them a relatively peaceful populace among the “conquered” and a peaceful Empire was a prosperous Empire. Why do you think the Pax Romana lasted so long….Study history!
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I say to you, show me anyone that can walk on water, feed thousands of people with only a few loafs of bread and one or two fish, bring the dead back to life, heal the sick (not just the blind and deaf and leapers; but someone who could also turn mentally disabled people whole), calm the sea, and then resurrect 3 days after his death.....and then if you find someone else who fits that description you might have ground for an argument against the authenticity of Christ. But until that time I'm sorry to say you don't.
And I say to you, show me when it is reported in something other than in 4 books of mythology that were written nearly a century after the fact. Just one little reference of these incredible (they were standard fare with the charlatans and magicians at the market places of that time) miracles performed by this astounding man (the silence on that is deafening). To take the word of unwitnessed, biased books is the act of the gullible. If this is your standard, then you need to also accept the Hindu faith, Buddhism, Taoism, etc. All you have to do to find someone else that meets the description of Jesus is read about Krishna, Mithra, Osiris, Erakles, Apollo, and others. As the old saying goes, They have been there and done that and had the Christians not be able to use Constantine, they would probably still be here.
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As I said before, I will pray you one day recognize that the Lord is exactly who he is said to be: The son of God, the Messiah, The Alpha and Omega, The King of Kings, and Your Lord and Savior if you choose to accept him.
This will only happen is some horrendous accident renders my reasoning ability to be naught. As long as I can think, I will oppose the evil that your religion represents. You could come to recognize the Creator and learn what true love is all about, I will pray to him that you do. Until then may the Creator look after you.
Good post mako
No one that is dead ever comes back to life. If you wake up then you werent dead. They couldn't even define clinically dead either back then. Maybe he knew CPR tho...
Like they don't have immune systems! Maybe he gave them Fish to help there mental state.... oh wait, he did ! ( omega 3 found in fish improves mental ability ) maybe he discovered antibiotics? some herbs to help heal? You know that most of our medicines are from nature, right?
Anyway, There is absaloutly still no evidence any of what you wrote in that paragraph
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bring the dead back to life
No one that is dead ever comes back to life. If you wake up then you werent dead. They couldn't even define clinically dead either back then. Maybe he knew CPR tho...
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heal the sick (not just the blind and deaf and leapers; but someone who could also turn mentally disabled people whole)
Like they don't have immune systems!
Maybe he gave them Fish to help there mental state.... oh wait, he did ! ( omega 3 found in fish improves mental ability ) maybe he discovered antibiotics? some herbs to help heal? You know that most of our medicines are from nature, right?Anyway, There is absaloutly still no evidence any of what you wrote in that paragraph
QUOTE(mako @ Aug 25 2005, 04:08 PM)
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First of all, how would I communicate with the microscopic fauna and flora in my digestive track
My point exactly, you can’t lower your intellect to their level….just as the entity that created the universe, which we can’t even start to fully understand, can not lower it’s intellect to our level. A level that is much lower to him/her/it than a microbe is to us. Thank you for asking that question.
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I obviously didn't create any mice......so comparing the connection of one of God's creations to another in an attempt to show why God wouldn't communicate with his creations doesn't make any sense at all in my opinion.
That is only because you are so blinded by the superstition that you hold. The average person would understand that something so superior to something else would have no desire or reason to communicate with the inferior one.
QUOTE
Secondly, you continue to refer to acts done in God's name. But that wasn't God that did those things, it was men.
Here is a partial list, separated by what God killed and what God ordered killed, in just the first 9 books of the OT:
God killed: Exodus 12:29-30 14:27-28 Leviticus 10:1-2 26:22 Numbers 11:1 16:27-35, 26:10 16:35, 26:10 16:41-50 21:6 25:9 Joshua 10:10 10:11 11:20 Judges 7:21 1 Samuel 6:19 12:11-12, 12:15-18, 16:21-22 24:1-15
God orders killing: Exodus 21:15 22:18 22:20 31:14-15, 35:2 32:27-28 Leviticus 20:9-12 20:27 21:9 24:16, 24 Numbers 1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:7 31”1-54 Deuteronomy 13:1-5, 18:20 13:6-10, 13:12-16, 17:2-7 21:18-21, 22:22 22:23-24 28:15-68, 32:23-25 Joshua 6:21, 8:24 - 40, 11:8 - 21 7:24-26 Judges 14:6, 14:19, 15:14-16 15:3
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but the fact that there are millions of people all around the world that follow his teachings would seem to suggest that somebody by the name of Jesus presented those teachings in the first place
There billions of people around the world that do not follow his teachings, so that would suggest that he never existed, using your frame of logic. Numbers have nothing to do with whether something is true or not, there are millions of children that believe that Santa Claus exists, but that doesn’t mean that he does.
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People don't just start proclaiming someone is the son of God for no reason
I don’t know, tell that to the people that worshipped the born-of-a-virgin/crucified/resurrecting/ascending/savior man-gods such as Mithra, Krishna, Apollo, Osiris, etc that preceded him. By your reasoning, they too must have been the sons of god.
QUOTE
Look, the Bible talks about all the places Jesus went......
Actually, using that reasoning, King Lear must have existed, General Maximis of the movie Gladiator must have existed. Even the poorest of fiction writers try to set their dramas against a real background to make them believable.
QUOTE
if he didn't exist (when the religion first started) people from those areas would be going around telling everyone that it was a fraud, that no one called Jesus ever came to their city.....but no one did that
Since none of the stories you find in the gospels wouldn’t have been passed around until several decades after the destruction of the temple and the scattering of many of the Jews, people wouldn’t have known what words or actions were attributed to Jesus. By the time that the gospels became better known (remember, there were no gospels mentioned until 150 CE, over a century after the destruction of the temple), any one who would have been a witness was long dead Very convenient for the early Church, since no one could check out the facts of what was or wasn’t said or done by Jesus. Even his existence couldn’t be checked, the burning of the temple would have solved that problem! That is simply why no one did that! I hope you understand now.
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if the guy didn't exist the Romans could have extinguished the Christian religion pretty quickly, but they didn't
Nor did they extinguish the Mithrian religion or any of the other religions competing with the Roman official religions, unlike the later Christian overlords of the faltering and crumbling (mainly because of Christian actions) Empire, the Roman Empire was very tolerant of religions. Even those that could be troublesome, they put up with the Jews for over a century and would have continued to if the Jews hadn’t openly rebelled. Why would they want to extinguish a religion? Their very openness to religions guaranteed them a relatively peaceful populace among the “conquered” and a peaceful Empire was a prosperous Empire. Why do you think the Pax Romana lasted so long….Study history!
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I say to you, show me anyone that can walk on water, feed thousands of people with only a few loafs of bread and one or two fish, bring the dead back to life, heal the sick (not just the blind and deaf and leapers; but someone who could also turn mentally disabled people whole), calm the sea, and then resurrect 3 days after his death.....and then if you find someone else who fits that description you might have ground for an argument against the authenticity of Christ. But until that time I'm sorry to say you don't.
And I say to you, show me when it is reported in something other than in 4 books of mythology that were written nearly a century after the fact. Just one little reference of these incredible (they were standard fare with the charlatans and magicians at the market places of that time) miracles performed by this astounding man (the silence on that is deafening). To take the word of unwitnessed, biased books is the act of the gullible. If this is your standard, then you need to also accept the Hindu faith, Buddhism, Taoism, etc. All you have to do to find someone else that meets the description of Jesus is read about Krishna, Mithra, Osiris, Erakles, Apollo, and others. As the old saying goes, They have been there and done that and had the Christians not be able to use Constantine, they would probably still be here.
QUOTE
As I said before, I will pray you one day recognize that the Lord is exactly who he is said to be: The son of God, the Messiah, The Alpha and Omega, The King of Kings, and Your Lord and Savior if you choose to accept him.
This will only happen is some horrendous accident renders my reasoning ability to be naught. As long as I can think, I will oppose the evil that your religion represents. You could come to recognize the Creator and learn what true love is all about, I will pray to him that you do. Until then may the Creator look after you.
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QUOTE(whoa182 @ Aug 25 2005, 04:28 PM)
Good post mako
No one that is dead ever comes back to life. If you wake up then you werent dead. They couldn't even define clinically dead either back then. Maybe he knew CPR tho...
Like they don't have immune systems! Maybe he gave them Fish to help there mental state.... oh wait, he did ! ( omega 3 found in fish improves mental ability ) maybe he discovered antibiotics? some herbs to help heal? You know that most of our medicines are from nature, right?
Anyway, There is absaloutly still no evidence any of what you wrote in that paragraph
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QUOTE
bring the dead back to life
No one that is dead ever comes back to life. If you wake up then you werent dead. They couldn't even define clinically dead either back then. Maybe he knew CPR tho...
QUOTE
heal the sick (not just the blind and deaf and leapers; but someone who could also turn mentally disabled people whole)
Like they don't have immune systems!
Maybe he gave them Fish to help there mental state.... oh wait, he did ! ( omega 3 found in fish improves mental ability ) maybe he discovered antibiotics? some herbs to help heal? You know that most of our medicines are from nature, right?Anyway, There is absaloutly still no evidence any of what you wrote in that paragraph
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I've never heard of an immune system that healed blindness and deafness....?
People don't come back to life after they die?? hmm.....I guess when EMT's proclaim that a person has died, but after 10 minutes of resusitation are brought back to life, that they're just lieing?
Mako you still aren't making sense when refering to the digestive Fauna and Flora thing. For one, like I already explained I couldn't communicate with my digestive fauna or flora because I didn't create them like God created his creations, it's not the same thing. God is an infinite being (WHO CREATED THE WHOLE UNIVERSE) his power is uncomprehendible! I don't have that power so why would you compare myself or anyone to what the power of God is?
You also said that God "couldn't" lower his inttelect to that level.... He created the universe but he can't do something like that???
You keep talking about my God being so terrible, that he's blood thirsty and so on..... But all I hear from you is how your God is SOOOO superior to everything else, that he looks down on us so much that he wouldn't even desire to communicate with us. It sounds to me that your god doesn't even like you, that he turns his shoulder to everything and everyone? Which is the complete contrast to the God I have been talking about (the one that is the God in the Christian faith). So how can you sit there and tell me my God is blood thirsty and bad, when according to your own words, your god doesn't even care enough about you to take an interest in you?
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I've never heard of an immune system that healed blindness and deafness....?
People don't come back to life after they die?? hmm.....I guess when EMT's proclaim that a person has died, but after 10 minutes of resusitation are brought back to life, that they're just lieing?
People don't come back to life after they die?? hmm.....I guess when EMT's proclaim that a person has died, but after 10 minutes of resusitation are brought back to life, that they're just lieing?
just like people don't heal blindness and deafness. Stories are stories, written with the purpose to send a message. If there was any basis in reality for the stories, they have been lost in the embellishments.
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Mako you still aren't making sense when refering to the digestive Fauna and Flora thing. For one, like I already explained I couldn't communicate with my digestive fauna or flora because I didn't create them like God created his creations, it's not the same thing. God is an infinite being (WHO CREATED THE WHOLE UNIVERSE) his power is uncomprehendible! I don't have that power so why would you compare myself or anyone to what the power of God is?
You also said that God "couldn't" lower his inttelect to that level.... He created the universe but he can't do something like that???
You also said that God "couldn't" lower his inttelect to that level.... He created the universe but he can't do something like that???
not to speak for mako (as i am not a deist, so my take will be a bit different anyways), but lets look at another example:
humans can now create basic life forms in the lab. We do not try to communicate with these basic life forms because we exist at an entirely different level than them. The same would be said of any universe creating entitity! Why would something that exists in terms of eons, that exists across expanses beyond our understanding, communicate with us? To be honest, just generating a thought would probably take longer than several lifetimes in human terms. If this entity were the size of the universe and a thought had to travel from one side to the other, mankind would be born and be gone before the thought completed its journey. The same context could apply to humans communicating with basic microbes that live for hours. What would be the meaningful communication between something that lives 80 years and something that lives 80 minutes? So different are they that even thinking of communication is pointless. (this is all hypothetical since i don't recognize any creator types)
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You keep talking about my God being so terrible, that he's blood thirsty and so on..... But all I hear from you is how your God is SOOOO superior to everything else, that he looks down on us so much that he wouldn't even desire to communicate with us. It sounds to me that your god doesn't even like you, that he turns his shoulder to everything and everyone? Which is the complete contrast to the God I have been talking about (the one that is the God in the Christian faith). So how can you sit there and tell me my God is blood thirsty and bad, when according to your own words, your god doesn't even care enough about you to take an interest in you?
if a creator type consciousness were found to exist, it would be much more understandable for it to be of the type that does not meddle in the goings on of humans. The true nature of a super powerful creature that needs to meddle is unnerving to say the least! The abrahamic god in that sense is indeed the archetype for "evil", if you subscribe to such concepts. To suggest that any universe making entity would be so concerned about but one small species on one planet is the ultimate height of egotism.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Aug 25 2005, 10:33 PM)
just like people don't heal blindness and deafness. Stories are stories, written with the purpose to send a message. If there was any basis in reality for the stories, they have been lost in the embellishments.
humans can now create basic life forms in the lab. We do not try to communicate with these basic life forms because we exist at an entirely different level than them. The same would be said of any universe creating entitity! Why would something that exists in terms of eons, that exists across expanses beyond our understanding, communicate with us? To be honest, just generating a thought would probably take longer than several lifetimes in human terms. If this entity were the size of the universe and a thought had to travel from one side to the other, mankind would be born and be gone before the thought completed its journey. The same context could apply to humans communicating with basic microbes that live for hours. What would be the meaningful communication between something that lives 80 years and something that lives 80 minutes? So different are they that even thinking of communication is pointless. (this is all hypothetical since i don't recognize any creator types)
The true nature of a super powerful creature that needs to meddle is unnerving to say the least!
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Your entitled to your opinion if you think they're just stories, but I pointed out what Jesus cured and my response to that was that humans have immune systems....I was pointing out that we don't have immune systems that heal some of the things that Jesus healed.
Again, your comparing a human to GOD. There is no comparison. When people create things in a lab they're not doing it from nothing, they're taking already existing things and replicating them (it's not the same thing).
You are also thinking in the way of a God that is limited. God isn't limited, he created everything....The universe and all life and matter in it, ANYTHING can be done by him. "Through God all things are possible."
If God created everything, why would he have trouble creating a thought? Or going from place to place? And how would he have difficulty if he is connected to all life like some were suggesting earlier? (which he is by the way)
Lastly... Why does a superpowerful being "meddling" as you call it unnerving? Does it frighten you that someone is watching out for you? That someone powerful loves you and would like to take part and help you in your life?
(I know you said your comments hypothetically, but those are my views on your hypothetical opinions)
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Lastly... Why does a superpowerful being "meddling" as you call it unnerving? Does it frighten you that someone is watching out for you? That someone powerful loves you and would like to take part and help you in your life?
that should be self evident! why would i want something sticking its "finger" into my affairs?
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If God created everything, why would he have trouble creating a thought? Or going from place to place? And how would he have difficulty if he is connected to all life like some were suggesting earlier? (which he is by the way)
i am not suggesting difficulty in creating thought in the least. i am saying that an enitity that encompasses the universe would operate under an entirely different structure than humans. As people of god believing types like to claim, this abrahamic god is beyond time: "1000 years is a day", and other such comparisons. Well, on such a differential scale where the entire existance of man would flash by in a "godly" instant", why would it bother to try to communicate with humans. We would be gone to quickly!
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Again, your comparing a human to GOD. There is no comparison. When people create things in a lab they're not doing it from nothing, they're taking already existing things and replicating them (it's not the same thing).
any creator class entity would also be creating something from something, for it in itself would have to constitute something so even if everything sprug forth from within the creator class, it all came from something!
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You are also thinking in the way of a God that is limited. God isn't limited, he created everything....The universe and all life and matter in it, ANYTHING can be done by him. "Through God all things are possible."
and yet, there is a substantial list of things the abrahamic god seems quite incapable of, so if there is some universal all creator class, the abrahamic god is not a member of it!
QUOTE(whoa182 @ Aug 25 2005, 04:28 PM)
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bring the dead back to life
No one that is dead ever comes back to life. If you wake up then you weren't dead. They couldn't even define clinically dead either back then. Maybe he knew CPR tho...
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Not true. Some People Have Been Dead For Several Days.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence10.html
Science, including determining actual death, is just a humans best guess using his most advanced measuring techniques.
whoa182, I've talked to you before. I know you are scared to die, and are actively involved in the search for the fountain of youth or life extension technology.
"The only thing that burns in hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you, they're freeing your soul. So, if you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth."
-Meister Eckhart
Not true. Some People Have Been Dead For Several Days. {quote}
Could you explain this better, I can't see how this could be so?
Could you explain this better, I can't see how this could be so?
Essence. Jesus didn't see in terms of flawed or less then Jesus saw what one is whole, perfect and complete. HE didn't try to heal he just merely removed the obstacles that stood in the way of ones knowing they are already healed.you are perfect as you are anything else is just a mental construct. Namaste sheri
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Aug 25 2005, 11:30 PM)
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Lastly... Why does a superpowerful being "meddling" as you call it unnerving? Does it frighten you that someone is watching out for you? That someone powerful loves you and would like to take part and help you in your life?
that should be self evident! why would i want something sticking its "finger" into my affairs?
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If God created everything, why would he have trouble creating a thought? Or going from place to place? And how would he have difficulty if he is connected to all life like some were suggesting earlier? (which he is by the way)
i am not suggesting difficulty in creating thought in the least. i am saying that an enitity that encompasses the universe would operate under an entirely different structure than humans. As people of god believing types like to claim, this abrahamic god is beyond time: "1000 years is a day", and other such comparisons. Well, on such a differential scale where the entire existance of man would flash by in a "godly" instant", why would it bother to try to communicate with humans. We would be gone to quickly!
QUOTE
Again, your comparing a human to GOD. There is no comparison. When people create things in a lab they're not doing it from nothing, they're taking already existing things and replicating them (it's not the same thing).
any creator class entity would also be creating something from something, for it in itself would have to constitute something so even if everything sprug forth from within the creator class, it all came from something!
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You are also thinking in the way of a God that is limited. God isn't limited, he created everything....The universe and all life and matter in it, ANYTHING can be done by him. "Through God all things are possible."
and yet, there is a substantial list of things the abrahamic god seems quite incapable of, so if there is some universal all creator class, the abrahamic god is not a member of it!
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QUOTE(isis-999 @ Aug 26 2005, 12:56 AM)
Not true. Some People Have Been Dead For Several Days. {quote}
Could you explain this better, I can't see how this could be so?
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Could you explain this better, I can't see how this could be so?
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QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Aug 26 2005, 01:10 AM)
Essence. Jesus didn't see in terms of flawed or less then Jesus saw what one is whole, perfect and complete. HE didn't try to heal he just merely removed the obstacles that stood in the way of ones knowing they are already healed.you are perfect as you are anything else is just a mental construct. Namaste sheri
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When it is said one day is a thousand years, it is saying that one day on Earth is a thousand years in Heaven; just think about that for a second......God has a thousand years in heaven to go over and review everyday that passes. When that is said no one is trying to say God can't pass through or interact with what would currently be the present, he can. He has a 1000 years to decide how to involve himself or not involve himself in each day that passes on Earth. (although that time wouldn't be needed since he knows what is going to happen anyway) My point is that there are no restraints or barriers that keep God from interacting with the Earth.
God is the only thing that ever always was and always will be. Everything else was created by him, so before he created it there was nothing there.
I would like that list of things God can't do......
I don't know of the people or instances being referred to by the previous poster of people being dead for several days. But I can tell you about a story I just recently heard a few days ago on the Church Channel:
Let me start off by saying I only heard this on TV.... Anyway the people on tv were talking about an instance where a miracle from God occurred recently where someone (in Africa I believe) came back to life during his viewing or eulogy. They said there are numerous eye witnesses to back up the claims, the guy was dead for a few days, he was embombed (don't know how to spell that) and everything......But while someone was preaching he came back to life while laying in his casket.
Sheri I never said Jesus viewed people as flawed or less than him. Where did you get that from?
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Mako you still aren't making sense when refering to the digestive Fauna and Flora thing.
Hmmm, since no one else has seemed to have a problem with understanding the allegory; either your are not capable of comprehending what was said, or because it threatens your belief system, you refuse to comprehend it. What can I say, if you want to bury your head, it’s your choice and your loss….there is such a large and beautiful world out here that you are missing.
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You also said that God "couldn't" lower his inttelect to that level.... He created the universe but he can't do something like that???
Not couldn’t, would have no reason too, any more than you would to talk to a microbe. Oh, I forgot, you can’t understand that allegory.
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It sounds to me that your god doesn't even like you, that he turns his shoulder to everything and everyone.
No I said he wanted us to learn on our own, that he gave us a great wonderful universe that is life friendly, he gave us the desire to please and help others and gave us a conscience as a guide. Why should he have to communicate with us? What great secrets would he want to impart to us that he hasn’t already given us? I notice that your god has had a lot of trouble making his desires known and he even has a manual (that is interpreted differently by every Christian on this planet)!
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So how can you sit there and tell me my God is blood thirsty and bad, when according to your own words, your god doesn't even care enough about you to take an interest in you?
Simple, your god has a history of killing and ordering killings and contrary to your beliefs; my god, after setting everything up and giving us a desire to learn, etc, has no reason to communicate with us. Interfering in our lives would remove the unconditional free will that he gave us. The great thing about unconditional free will, unlike the conditional “my-way-or-hell-to-pay” free will of your god, is that it is unconditional!
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Your entitled to your opinion if you think they're just stories, but I pointed out what Jesus cured and my response to that was that humans have immune systems....I was pointing out that we don't have immune systems that heal some of the things that Jesus healed.
As I asked before, where is these fabulous miracles recorded, other than in a very biased, self-contradicting, in accurate set of scriptures that was written nearly a century after the supposed occurrences. No Christian will answer that, yet will tell us how the scriptures of the Hindu or the Buddhists are false because there is no outside verification of them. Seems to me that you folks have a double standard when it comes to accepting any scriptures.
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God is the only thing that ever always was and always will be. Everything else was created by him, so before he created it there was nothing there.
While I believe in a Creator, you statement can not be more than speculation and does nothing for your argument.
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the people on tv were talking about an instance where a miracle from God occurred recently where someone (in Africa I believe) came back to life during his viewing or eulogy. They said there are numerous eye witnesses to back up the claims, the guy was dead for a few days, he was embombed (don't know how to spell that) and everything......But while someone was preaching he came back to life while laying in his casket.
There are many diseases that can cause a condition that emulates death, through the slowing of the bodily functions (heart, breath, etc) and causes the patient to fall into a coma, only to rouse at a later time. When my grandpa was a kid, there was a fever that went through the area killing sever dozen people. When I was about 12, they moved the old town cemetery to make way for the Interstate highway. They found many of the bodies of those that “died” in that epidemic lying on their stomachs, on their sides, many of the coffins had claw marks on their lids, where the poor victim had tried to claw their way out, most of their fingernails were torn off and fingers bloodied. That could (and probably would) be the explanation of that news from Africa.
I will continue praying that you will come to know the Creator, before it is too late for this life.
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People don't come back to life after they die?? hmm.....I guess when EMT's proclaim that a person has died, but after 10 minutes of resusitation are brought back to life, that they're just lieing?
Look, No One that has died ever come back to life. Please show me one case that has evidence to support that people are being brought back to life after being dead.
There are many herbs that actually slow cell death in the brain. If a person has a lot of brain cell death then they are not going to become consciousness again. There was a person that is recorded to have not had a heart beat or brain activity for 65 minutes but his brain was perserved because of the cold temperature of the water. So we can say that real DEATH is not when the heart stops but when the brain cells are destroyed.
The people that was claimed to be dead and jesus brought them back to life may not have been dead at all. For one they couldnt detect brain activity back then and under certain conditions I believe one could be fooled that someone was dead back when jesus was supposed to be around.
Whoa I think it happens everyday in emergency rooms across the world that someone has been brought back from death,How are you defining death??? If you are defining it as thats it lights out okay, but death is a change in perspective, even religion all of them make reference to life being eternal > namaste sheri
At last! I have found the one true God! I have been touched by his noodly appendage. You too must know him - go to this address for enlightment!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
Death is destruction of brain cells. If that happens the person is never going to be conscious again and is dead. Clearly, in most cases where people are brought back to consciousness they did not suffer significant brain cell death to end their life. Therefor they werent dead.
Imagine an electrical gadget. If we cut the power of that gadget do we consider it dead? Well not quite since it just requires some energy to get it working again ( electricity )
But if we destroy the circuits or processor in the gadget then we can say that the gadget is dead since electricity will do no good.
I hope I explained that good enough this time :S
Imagine an electrical gadget. If we cut the power of that gadget do we consider it dead? Well not quite since it just requires some energy to get it working again ( electricity )
But if we destroy the circuits or processor in the gadget then we can say that the gadget is dead since electricity will do no good.
I hope I explained that good enough this time :S
God's free will is unconditional. When God has taken part in events, it has only been for a few simple reasons: 1. His people were threatened by an enemy who was oppressing them. 2. One of his followers asked for his help and guidance. 3. He feels the need to help someone who is in need by giving them a sign or simply showing he is there. 4. To give advice to save someone's life. 5. To prepare someone for a coming hardship. 6. To make sure someone who he has a plan for stays alive so he can fulfil that plan. 7. (Jesus, 1st time) to lead his people into repentance and save us from our sins.
(there may be a few other reasons or things that he does, but that's basically it)
God never makes anybody do anything, and you have no proof that he does hinder free will. Even during the 10 plagues of Egypt, God never forced them to let his people go.......eventually they did it themselves. (there is also an Egyptian historical record that confirms the happenings of the 10 plagues, I just thought I'd tell you about that since you continually say there's no evidence of anything in the Bible) If you want the name of it let me know...
You keep refereing to hell as a way that God hinders free will... But does he make anybody go? And does he make sure nobody goes? Hell is your choice as well....
Let me give you an example of God so you might better understand him and his love: Do you love your father? I'm sure the answer is yes.
Did your father ever spank you when you did something wrong? I'm sure the answer to that is probably yes. If it isn't i'm sure he scolded you or punished you in some way if you did something wrong.
Even though you were punished as a child, don't you still love your father?
And why exactly would you love your father? Simple, because he is your father, he gave you life.......why wouldn't you love your father? (even most people who were abused by their father still love him)
So why is it hard to love our Holy Father (God)? And why does it seem wrong for him to become frustrated when we don't love him or when we do wrong?
Food for thought...
Lastly, thanks for the prayer my friend. But I do know the creator. Lets both pray everyone does.
(there may be a few other reasons or things that he does, but that's basically it)
God never makes anybody do anything, and you have no proof that he does hinder free will. Even during the 10 plagues of Egypt, God never forced them to let his people go.......eventually they did it themselves. (there is also an Egyptian historical record that confirms the happenings of the 10 plagues, I just thought I'd tell you about that since you continually say there's no evidence of anything in the Bible) If you want the name of it let me know...
You keep refereing to hell as a way that God hinders free will... But does he make anybody go? And does he make sure nobody goes? Hell is your choice as well....
Let me give you an example of God so you might better understand him and his love: Do you love your father? I'm sure the answer is yes.
Did your father ever spank you when you did something wrong? I'm sure the answer to that is probably yes. If it isn't i'm sure he scolded you or punished you in some way if you did something wrong.
Even though you were punished as a child, don't you still love your father?
And why exactly would you love your father? Simple, because he is your father, he gave you life.......why wouldn't you love your father? (even most people who were abused by their father still love him)
So why is it hard to love our Holy Father (God)? And why does it seem wrong for him to become frustrated when we don't love him or when we do wrong?
Food for thought...
Lastly, thanks for the prayer my friend. But I do know the creator. Lets both pray everyone does.
QUOTE(whoa182 @ Aug 26 2005, 02:17 PM)
Death is destruction of brain cells. If that happens the person is never going to be conscious again and is dead. Clearly, in most cases where people are brought back to consciousness they did not suffer significant brain cell death to end their life. Therefor they werent dead.
Imagine an electrical gadget. If we cut the power of that gadget do we consider it dead? Well not quite since it just requires some energy to get it working again ( electricity )
But if we destroy the circuits or processor in the gadget then we can say that the gadget is dead since electricity will do no good.
I hope I explained that good enough this time :S
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Imagine an electrical gadget. If we cut the power of that gadget do we consider it dead? Well not quite since it just requires some energy to get it working again ( electricity )
But if we destroy the circuits or processor in the gadget then we can say that the gadget is dead since electricity will do no good.
I hope I explained that good enough this time :S
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But the point is regardeless of how you think death is you don't really know and lots do beleive that you can be brought back from the dead there are lots of NDE stories all saying the same thing its just a mater of how open you are are aren't. Namaste sheri
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God's free will is unconditional. When God has taken part in events, it has only been for a few simple reasons: 1. His people were threatened by an enemy who was oppressing them. 2. One of his followers asked for his help and guidance. 3. He feels the need to help someone who is in need by giving them a sign or simply showing he is there. 4. To give advice to save someone's life. 5. To prepare someone for a coming hardship. 6. To make sure someone who he has a plan for stays alive so he can fulfil that plan. 7. (Jesus, 1st time) to lead his people into repentance and save us from our sins
it is clear from your statement the abrahamic god's version of free will is not unconditional. If he gave unconditional anything to humans, then there would not be the division between "his people" and others. If one asks for his interference and he grants it, then he is depriving others that interact with that individual of complete free will. In giving signs, he is again interefering in free will, and demonstrating, yet again he does not act unconditionally and equally. #6! he has a plan for! that in of itself is demonstration of a stripping of free will! Lastly, to repent for being what we are, which abrahamic followers accredit to this god, therefore we are to repent for being what he made us to be. So much for any free will under this abrahamic god!
As to your other post: the god that can't get things done:
lets see, he has to constantly send followers to their own doom in his wars against his unchosen peoples so clearly he can't even remove a few bothersome humans from the planet! A far cry short of almighty indeed.
< NEAR > DEATH not actual death!
This means their brain didn't die while their heart may have stopped. NDE have nothing to do with this. The other organs in their body do not hold their identity.
It's fact and theres no point in debating it, NO PERSON has ever come back from being dead.
Brain death determains if a person is dead. Not whether their heart stopped and they lost consciousness. If you don't supply Oxygen and Glucose to the brain then the brain will die eventually.
No total brain dead person has ever come back to life.
The only people that has any chance of carrying on living after their brain stopped functioning and organs, are people who went into Cryonics. Where the brain cells will not die. It's been proven that if the brain is well preserved then you can get them to regain consciousness and full control of their life again, as demonstrated with that boy whos brain structure and cells stayed intact for 65minutes because of the freezing water.
This means their brain didn't die while their heart may have stopped. NDE have nothing to do with this. The other organs in their body do not hold their identity.
It's fact and theres no point in debating it, NO PERSON has ever come back from being dead.
Brain death determains if a person is dead. Not whether their heart stopped and they lost consciousness. If you don't supply Oxygen and Glucose to the brain then the brain will die eventually.
No total brain dead person has ever come back to life.
The only people that has any chance of carrying on living after their brain stopped functioning and organs, are people who went into Cryonics. Where the brain cells will not die. It's been proven that if the brain is well preserved then you can get them to regain consciousness and full control of their life again, as demonstrated with that boy whos brain structure and cells stayed intact for 65minutes because of the freezing water.
QUOTE(isis-999 @ Aug 26 2005, 12:56 AM)
Not true. Some People Have Been Dead For Several Days. {quote}
Could you explain this better, I can't see how this could be so?
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Could you explain this better, I can't see how this could be so?
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Another example of people being dead for days is in the Bible where it states that Saints were brought back from their graves. (to be in their graves they would have had to been dead for a few days at least. Plus it says Saints plural, and usually a whole group of Saints don't all die at the same time)
The Near death experi4ences are coined that but these people that"died felt dead and came back to tell of it, also you are talking about physical death and that is true once the body is done its done except in near death but you are not just your body. to believe that the only possible way it could be is the way you say is a dogmatic as religion. It just shows you aren't open to the idea of being brought back from the dead,Right and wrong are relative terms illusion nothing more. Namaste sheri
EofE I agree with hyper 100%
EofE I agree with hyper 100%
Similar experiences to NDE can be induced through electrical stimulation of the temporal lobe. Theres plenty of scientific evidence out there if you look. Some people maybe thought to be dead, but are just unconscious.
QUOTE(whoa182 @ Aug 26 2005, 02:57 PM)
Similar experiences to NDE can be induced through electrical stimulation of the temporal lobe. Theres plenty of scientific evidence out there if you look. Some people maybe thought to be dead, but are just unconscious.
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whoa I'm not discounting that there may be some element of truth to what you say but there may be some element of truth to NDE's also I have read alot of different perspectives on this over the years and I can't take a stance one way or the other its possible they are both valid claims Things are never as they seem I really try to use care when i start saying I know for sure on anything I don't. Just when I think I do something comes along to change the picture the nature of evolution I guess. I wasn't tyring to offend just rap i hope you are not offended. NamasteSheri
QUOTE(bacca @ Aug 24 2005, 09:22 PM)
scooby so this near death experience did you speak to god and jesus? or did you experience something that you can not explain and give credit to god and jesus because it's the easiest thing to do to try and give yourself answers? I'm not trying to be funny i'd really like to know why you would automatically say i had a near death experience so there must be a god and a jesus....did you have no previous knowledge of them? could your mind have put them in because that's who it thought should be there? if you did see jesus did he look like he does in most churches? or did he look completely different?
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No. Just to set things straight, I have never had a near death experiance. I have spoken to various people who have. Vast majority, are very spiritual/religious/open minded and not scared of death, because they know thier is no death, simply another form of consousness, science can't yet explain.
I have also read many, many personal accounts of near death experiances. many do speak directly to a being that goes by the name Jesus. Atheists come back and say they suddenly believe in god, becuase they met and conversed with God. I'm not assuming that since someone came back to life there must be a god. People have come back with previously unknown info including the existance of God, Jesus, and an afterlife, more amazing than anyone can comprehend. You will have to study it for yourself, in order to understand it.
Here is somthing for the skeptics:
http://www.near-death.com/skeptic.html
another for some proof:
http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html
But the way to fully understand is to read the personal accounts, of hell, heaven, suicides, to get the big picture of how the afterlife works. Read some of the "notable NDE's"
http://www.near-death.com/
And that's just a taste of what we know.
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many do speak directly to a being that goes by the name Jesus.
the standard question applies: how many of these people that spoke to jesus had never heard of a man named jesus prior to their NDE?
Show me such a case, with good evidence that the first time the person ever heard of jesus was in their NDE and i would be interested in hearing more. all other cases can be quickly dismissed by the mondane.
Having had an NDE 5 years ago, I have done much study on the phenomena(?) of NDE/STE.
NDE is when a person has a verifiable death and is brought back to life.
The most famous of NDE cases is that of Pam Reynolds.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html
others
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence02.html
There are other sites like
www.nderf.org
This site has hundreds of NDE and STE accounts.
Plus there is Me
I believe Scooby is closer to the truth.
There is very little we know about the brain, and even less as it relates to consciousness.
In my experience, I clearly left my body, viewed my body from above, and attained a level of consciousness where I attained the level of connection with all.
I do NOt believe that it was a dream as it was as real as I sit here typing, so save your replies.
This is a very valid comment, and one that requires further study.
It is true that people whom see Jesus in the afterlife or budda or whomever, is directly in correlation to their chosen form of religion here on earth.
I have yet to hear of someone with no knowledge of christ, seeing him during his/her experience.
Hyper, I am game if you are game to a debate on NDe's
I personally met no-one, but did have a conversation with voice(thought) unknown.
There are also experience called STE's or spiritually transformative experiences.
While these experiences are close to NDE's there is no threatening imminent death.
For those whom wish to call NDE's a dream, I am sure that there are 8 million Americans alone who will not agree with you.
NDE is when a person has a verifiable death and is brought back to life.
The most famous of NDE cases is that of Pam Reynolds.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html
others
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence02.html
There are other sites like
www.nderf.org
This site has hundreds of NDE and STE accounts.
Plus there is Me
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No. Just to set things straight, I have never had a near death experiance. I have spoken to various people who have. Vast majority, are very spiritual/religious/open minded and not scared of death, because they know thier is no death, simply another form of consousness, science can't yet explain.
I believe Scooby is closer to the truth.
There is very little we know about the brain, and even less as it relates to consciousness.
In my experience, I clearly left my body, viewed my body from above, and attained a level of consciousness where I attained the level of connection with all.
I do NOt believe that it was a dream as it was as real as I sit here typing, so save your replies.
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the standard question applies: how many of these people that spoke to jesus had never heard of a man named jesus prior to their NDE?
Show me such a case, with good evidence that the first time the person ever heard of jesus was in their NDE and i would be interested in hearing more. all other cases can be quickly dismissed by the mondane.
Show me such a case, with good evidence that the first time the person ever heard of jesus was in their NDE and i would be interested in hearing more. all other cases can be quickly dismissed by the mondane.
This is a very valid comment, and one that requires further study.
It is true that people whom see Jesus in the afterlife or budda or whomever, is directly in correlation to their chosen form of religion here on earth.
I have yet to hear of someone with no knowledge of christ, seeing him during his/her experience.
Hyper, I am game if you are game to a debate on NDe's
I personally met no-one, but did have a conversation with voice(thought) unknown.
There are also experience called STE's or spiritually transformative experiences.
While these experiences are close to NDE's there is no threatening imminent death.
For those whom wish to call NDE's a dream, I am sure that there are 8 million Americans alone who will not agree with you.
QUOTE(mako @ Aug 26 2005, 05:17 PM)
At last! I have found the one true God! I have been touched by his noodly appendage. You too must know him - go to this address for enlightment!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
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That was a very good find.
A must read!
BTW Mako are you a prophet of this....religion?
a very touchy subject to me...there is no fact supporting God's existence so NO.
i am not so bold as to come out and say God is fake though...like who ever started this topic....
IMO
i am not so bold as to come out and say God is fake though...like who ever started this topic....
IMO
An opinion I share.
QUOTE(RaginCajun @ Aug 27 2005, 12:12 PM)
a very touchy subject to me...there is no fact supporting God's existence so NO.
i am not so bold as to come out and say God is fake though...like who ever started this topic....
IMO
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i am not so bold as to come out and say God is fake though...like who ever started this topic....
IMO
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Covering all your bases?
QUOTE(WongFeiHung @ Aug 4 2005, 11:48 PM)
Ok, before any of you religious people come in here and start saying how I'm going to go to hell, and turned into salt or whatever, read this WHOLE thing.
(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)
I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.
The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!
And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!
The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."
I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.
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(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)
I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.
The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!
And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!
The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."
I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.
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You also forgot that Christians destroyed so many civilizations over their fake beliefs.
example: Romans,greeks, Celts, Aztechs, Mayans, etc..
I don't mess with religion untill it does stuff like ban gay rights and abortations. THAT's when religion is bad. Hell, without religion I believe life we could obtain world peace.
QUOTE(Nadal @ Aug 28 2005, 08:48 AM)
QUOTE(WongFeiHung @ Aug 4 2005, 11:48 PM)
Ok, before any of you religious people come in here and start saying how I'm going to go to hell, and turned into salt or whatever, read this WHOLE thing.
(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)
I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.
The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!
And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!
The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."
I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.
[right][snapback]773492[/snapback][/right]
(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)
I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.
The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!
And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!
The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."
I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.
[right][snapback]773492[/snapback][/right]
You also forgot that Christians destroyed so many civilizations over their fake beliefs.
example: Romans,greeks, Celts, Aztechs, Mayans, etc..
[right][snapback]814306[/snapback][/right]
Excellent post Wong, I want to add that in religons attempt to control and keep the power for themselves (because they misunderstand the meaning of true power) they have created so much dysfunction and vile behaviors in their attempt to keep people good they have created monsters you only have to look around to see this behind every unsavory behavior is a religious beleief IMO. the first and biggest being that you are born of a sinful unworthy nature Now you tell me what are you gonna aspire to?????? With that sort of back slapping , those that feel as if their is nothing divine about them can't care about themselves or others. Namaste sheri
Hi there all,
Short but simple: Everyone that wants can have personal proof from God Himself if they want to know He exists. So no excuse or very long discussions neccasery!!
Everybody can ask God for His Holy Spirit(Gods power) and God will give it and you will speak in tongues ( A language you don't understand) and will have a bigger understanding of how Gods works etc. You will be able to perform miracles that Jesus did and certainly don't need to have questions in you heart anymore.
Ofcourse the bible also tells us that we need to repent and be baptised under water aswell! Acts 2:38
For more info:
www.revivalfellowship.org
Short but simple: Everyone that wants can have personal proof from God Himself if they want to know He exists. So no excuse or very long discussions neccasery!!
Everybody can ask God for His Holy Spirit(Gods power) and God will give it and you will speak in tongues ( A language you don't understand) and will have a bigger understanding of how Gods works etc. You will be able to perform miracles that Jesus did and certainly don't need to have questions in you heart anymore.
Ofcourse the bible also tells us that we need to repent and be baptised under water aswell! Acts 2:38
For more info:
www.revivalfellowship.org
Welcome to the boards Saint Eve.
Some of us have found a different way. But thank you for sharing your beliefs.
good journey
Some of us have found a different way. But thank you for sharing your beliefs.
good journey
QUOTE(Saint_Eve @ Aug 28 2005, 06:15 PM)
Hi there all,
Short but simple: Everyone that wants can have personal proof from God Himself if they want to know He exists. So no excuse or very long discussions neccasery!!
Everybody can ask God for His Holy Spirit(Gods power) and God will give it and you will speak in tongues ( A language you don't understand) and will have a bigger understanding of how Gods works etc. You will be able to perform miracles that Jesus did and certainly don't need to have questions in you heart anymore.
Ofcourse the bible also tells us that we need to repent and be baptised under water aswell! Acts 2:38
For more info:
www.revivalfellowship.org
[right][snapback]814502[/snapback][/right]
Short but simple: Everyone that wants can have personal proof from God Himself if they want to know He exists. So no excuse or very long discussions neccasery!!
Everybody can ask God for His Holy Spirit(Gods power) and God will give it and you will speak in tongues ( A language you don't understand) and will have a bigger understanding of how Gods works etc. You will be able to perform miracles that Jesus did and certainly don't need to have questions in you heart anymore.
Ofcourse the bible also tells us that we need to repent and be baptised under water aswell! Acts 2:38
For more info:
www.revivalfellowship.org
[right][snapback]814502[/snapback][/right]
Hi and welcome to UM.
Thanks anyway Eve, quite happy with my religion and make a habit of thinking for myself, but again, thanks for the offer. Maybe your might want to consider coming over to the Creator, just thought I would offer. Anytime you feel the need, just contact me - CD
of course god doesen't excist
QUOTE(Nadal @ Aug 28 2005, 10:48 AM)
QUOTE(WongFeiHung @ Aug 4 2005, 11:48 PM)
Ok, before any of you religious people come in here and start saying how I'm going to go to hell, and turned into salt or whatever, read this WHOLE thing.
(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)
I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.
The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!
And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!
The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."
I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.
[right][snapback]773492[/snapback][/right]
(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)
I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.
The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!
And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!
The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."
I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.
[right][snapback]773492[/snapback][/right]
You also forgot that Christians destroyed so many civilizations over their fake beliefs.
example: Romans,greeks, Celts, Aztechs, Mayans, etc..
[right][snapback]814306[/snapback][/right]
How did the Christians destroy the Romans? lol! The Roman people became Christian themselves, so how did the Christian's destroy the Romans when the Romans became Christians? lol... That's why that one sect is called: "The Roman Catholic Church"
lol
Anyway, on another note.. About what someone posted about religious people banning gay rights...... Christians don't ban gay rights. I assume your talking about the marriage thing. Look, to each their own, and if someone wants to be gay, then let them be gay, no one's stopping them. Christians aren't saying that they can't have their Unions and have the rights that actual married people have. But when they commit to be together we don't think what they do should be called a marriage. And as far as i'm concerned it shouldn't be done by a preacher (or other man of God) and it shouldn't be done in a Church. God says that only a man and a woman should lay together. A marriage is the unification of a MAN and a WOMAN. It ISN'T the unification of two of the same sex! If they want to have a union done by someone like a state official (with vows that aren't the sacred wedding vows) then that's fine. But don't insult God by having a gay couple married in a church by a pastor! That is just simply WRONG, and against our beliefs. If they want to start their own type of process for what they do, then let them. But don't call it a marriage under God, and don't do it an a church, with our vows!
That's not a ban of their rights... It's US sticking up for OURS! And our beliefs! Don't interpret it otherwise...
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