So, Wong, you BELIEVE God is made up...Isn't it harder to believe he is made up than to disbelieve???
Wouldn't you make your life a lot easier if you just went into the middle, and just didn't believe or dis-believe?

It is kind of where I am, I'm not religious anymore but have a spiritual side..

?????
What is the difference if you do not believe in God or believe he is made up? Both things say he is not real.


It may or may not be easier but it is not what I think and feel. I make my choices and live with them.

im testing fate by arguing with a mod but i dont care coz im in a bad mood.. and if that happens i know stuff is REALLY goin bad coz im NEVER in a bad mood.

kismit.. obviously YOU are not the observant type asking me not to swear when i clearly stated i rarely swear. i was just bringing up the general idea how swearing is not tolerated because its supposedly offensive and yet there r forums for the assertion of ur beleifs even tho it can directly offend others. kinda odd. not that im against the forums.. just pointing it out. i know the rules here say no swearing but i was speaking about the public in general. know what im saying? no? neither do i.. im just in a bad mood and rambling! GRR!

ignore me!

edit: 30 or so mins later.. deleted a part that i honestly didnt understand even myself.. made no sense.. ppl write odd stuff when they r angry.. lol.. im leaving the bulk of the post tho.. i did mean it at the time..

Yay, God is fake, woo-hoo. Somebody smoke some crack or something.

lol.. a little unexpected..

*smokes crack*

What the difference is: is that to believe takes energy, to believe in God is one thing that takes alot of energy when you don't think he was made up by a human being. To believe he was made up by a human being, I think is a lot more waste of energy.
Most of all to disbelieve takes less energy in a way, I think would be easier if you dis-believed in Gods existence BECAUSE you don't think he was made up by a human being.

So, to disbelieve it if you think he was created by a human being, well......???

????
Are you sure you got the right thread?

Sorry, I edited that @ read something wrong earlier, my mistake.... The last one was what I meant....
Sorry, there guy....

I was reading this actually.. and thinking hard about it...about being a non-believer and still not athiest.

I like the first version of your post!

No problem....I have done the same thing before

I don't really know if you could call a respect and love for nature a religion so I call myself a NB but not an athiest.

Make sense?

Don't know how many times I have heard that one...


God is real People!!! There I said that!

But you know of course, thats just my humble opinion...


LBD

Always the humble one!

I try...

But still just your OPINION!

True...

Atheists are to unbending when it comes to the metaphysical.
Although I do believe that this whole god thing is pretty much mans idea. The one that people worship now is not even that old. Abraham conjured him up a few thousand years ago in order to gain power and influence over people. There were so many before that I can't keep track anymore. Actually another one is evolving right now in the new millenium. Still monotheist but nicer than the old one. More people friendly I guess you could call it.

namaste sheri

all religions are monotheist. i've explained before. "Abraham" originally came from the hindu "Brachman" or "Brahman", the originating power behind Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. All Gods are one.

They have been since the Abraham takeover. Except in American Indian and Pagans which are still polytheist if I'm not mistaken.

in every religion there is a "god-god" behind the scenes. "jupiter" means deus pater-god the Father. additonally called "Jove", in latin pronounced "Yahweh" suprise suprise. the greeks had "pan", which means "all". please notice that xians went to great lengths to dress satan as pan. the norse had many gods, but then, whoops, there was "all-father" the native american cultures, although many were as different from each other as china and france-the ones i have studied all have a source, which americans like to translate as "Great Spirit". Most "Native american" customs quoted by americans are based on Lakota-Sioux, which of course had "Wakan Taka" - look it up if you don't believe me. The word "Pagan" was originally an insult by early xians, who called themselves "soldiers of Christ" It means country person or civilian. even the xians, in the book of acts, admit and claim that the shrine to the unknown god was the same as yhvh-look it up. the hindus had brahma-god the father, vishnu-holy spirit, and shiva-Jesus. but behind them was always Brahman-yhvh. the same pattern occurs all over the world. there is no true polytheism, just a myth made up by xians, who refused to see their own face in the mirror of every other culture on earth. if they were to look with something else other than greed and hatred, they might see it, but they do not.

G-d, Adam, Eve, Eden, Heaven, Cain, Abel, Moses, Abraham, Jesus, et al... are all of the Abstract Realm--"Considered apart from matter"; "Theoretical"; "Ideal"; "Only exist as Thought."

G-d is not "fake." G-d is what an individual believes.

Good luck on waiting for that to happen.

Interesting thesis.
Just curious, but do you then believe that we re-incarnate to parents, so we can experience god in a certain religion?
If God is only thought, then are we only thought as well?
Is our bodies only a vessel that we use to experience thought and put thought into action?

If there was a way to prove GOD existed what would be the point of worshipping him, everybody would accept he's there. Life on Earth is a trail how you choose to live it is your perogative.


"For we walk by faith, not by sight." Corinthians 5:7

Nicely said.

zero,

why would definitive proof of something diminish it? just think about it for one minute. Why is it necessary for the 'god' attribution to include some form of mystery? Knowing it is there (if it existed, that is) would not diminish what it is at all. All you are doing is maintaining your own fantasies by claiming you somehow NEED it to be mysterious because you NEED faith.

The key here is in the NEEDINESS!

Perhaps it wouldn't live up to your expectations if it were identified? Reality so easily falls short after one has been dreaming of all the possibilities!

Of course, there is also the loss of the believers 'exclusivity' factor that may well make some not want their fantasies made into reality. After all, when it is in 'your head' it is yours, when it is released to the masses it is everybodies.

It would destroy the point of Faith. God want's to see who has faith in him.

"For we walk by faith, not by sight." Corinthians 5:7

hey zero, put the man-made tripe aside for a minute and answer me honestly.

IF some 'creator of the universe' (or whatever you prefer) were to be proven and revealed to all, how would this in any way diminish that it 'created the universe'?

I never said it wouldn't. I said it would defeat the purpose of peopel having faith in him. No one would be able to look at the universe and say "Nah, nothing special, there's no God". And nothing would be able to tempt beleivers to become non-beleivers. Everyone would beleive. He wants to see who will be trust in him. If you want someone to trust in you and what you say, you're not going to proove what you're saying is true, but find out if the person trusts and beleives you.

Of course when you look through your Euro-centric, hierarchical, pyramidal consciousness at these various folks they look that way to you. The Native American cosmology is so decentralized it's hard for European people to see what's really going on beyond their own prejudices. In European terms it is far closer to animism than monotheism. Great Spirit, Wakan Tanka, is much more a feeling than a deity. To a European ethnographer, Coyote and Great Spirit are "gods." Whatever you do, even though Coyote created humans from clay one morning long ago, don't pray to him unless you want to get locked out of your house, lose your job and your girlfriend and have the roof cave in!

you still have NOT answered without refering to mad-made tripe!

edit: ask yourself why something you think is so worthy would have any NEED for you to play with you in such a way?

The problem with religions is they are of a child's mindset, and do a great discredit to anything that hypothetically would be out there. In your narrowmindedness, you not only discredit yourself, but that which you claim created it all.

The only ones that need faith and benefit from your succumbing to it are religions. Think about who/what benefits and loses from a 'creator' being revealed. The creator does not lose anything, nor really gain anything. You gain your egoboost from knowing what you hypotheseized was correct. I could not care less. Religion looses its primary tool since it uses 'faith' to justify its own existance and to secure its power. Stop surrendering to man-made tripe!

Wow, great thread!!! Yep!

I agree with you, Wong. I've always believed it to be a serious case of Chinese Whispers. Jesus rose from the cross??? Erm, maybe it was a post-death judder instead? It's not like they had a huge medical knowledge back then.

People believed what they wanted to believe. Eventually this faith was created to keep the human race in line. It's amazing how, to this day, only one person was known to have been impregnated by a gas/energy/spirit (whatever you wanna call it) but yet now, in a day where we are so far advanced, not even medical science couldn't achieve that - unless you want to include the test-tube method?! I'd hate to think what Joseph had to say to Mary when she confessed.


Hmm ... obviously you DID have the time as you read the opening of the thread and replied. As far as "attacking" goes, they weren't doing that. They're giving their opinion (they didn't say that you should agree with it, nor stop believing). There's NOTHING "sick" about that! ...

Oh, and if anyone is doing the attacking, it's YOU!


You're right, but there is no "factual" truth that he DID exist either. Again, it's an opinion. Take it as you see it.


Actually, YOU, among many people here, are showing that you DO give a damn. You wouldn't have replied otherwise. So far, we're on the 50th page of people who supposedly "don't give a damn(?)".


My mind is as open as a fridge door (wide ... mmMmm, I see chicken), yet I don't believe in God, neither am I seeking him. If he's so bothered about what people think, he'll show himself.


Again, people probably THOUGHT that he rose from the cross, but I still call that a post-death judder (body spasms). Either that, or they had a defibrillator hidden away somewhere ... I don't think so!


Yep, I'll go with that.


They posted this so that people like YOU would reply.


Lmao, another person who can't take an opinion. They're not expecting to change anyone's beliefs. They're merely sharing their own. This doesn't make them a "fruit cake"!!!


Cool, and I wouldn't, same as nobody else should, judge you for that.


EDIT: The way I see it is, if the religious are so sure that there is a God, they would have no reason to get upset when an alternative opinion is given. OR, maybe you're offensive and defensive side comes from your insecurities - meaning that deep down, you know there is no proof and there is a chance that others could be right?

I'm not attacking any of you. I'm cool with whatever you believe, but it's YOU (not all of you) that seem to have this chip on your shoulder when it comes to hearing differently.

That's only your opinion. I don't see it as him playing with us. I'd do the exact same if I were him also.

well, zero, you have demonstrated how religion is of a child's mindset at least.

The last time you played with ants did you check to see if they knew you were there if any just believed in you, ect?

I see the whole point is lost on you so i will just let it go. enjoy your dogma, whichever one you end up adopting.

Turtle:
"Just curious, but do you then believe that we re-incarnate to parents, so we can experience god in a certain religion?"
- You need to rephrase this question so that it makes sense. I don't want to assume what you mean. Please clarify.

"If God is only thought, then are we only thought as well?"
- Some, such as Schopenhauer, would argue that "The World is Idea." (see The World as Will and Idea, Arthur Schopenhauer, 1819.) I believe that "we" perceive experiences through sensory modes.

"Is [Are] our bodies only a vessel that we use to experience thought and put thought into action?"
- No, that would be too limiting. Our bodies are the complex evolution of an even more complex existence of possibilities.

ZeroShadow:

"He wants to see who will be trust[ing] in him"(1). If you want someone to trust in you and what you say, you're not going to proove[prove] what you're saying is true, but find out if the person trusts and beleives[believes] you"(2).


1) If G-d is All Things (omnipresent), then doesn't G-d already know who trusts him?
2) If I understand your words correctly, you are saying that if you want someone to trust you, you have to find out if someone trusts you. This assertion defies common logic. Perhaps I simply don't comprehend your progression of thought here. I always thought that trust is something earned through behavior and truth.

Yes, and as the thread starter pointed out, many people came up with their own mythology as to what the meaning of life was and to help them figure out what their purpose here might be. Whether the first humans that saw a comet or had crops fail lived in Africa, Europe, or Asia, all had the desire to create meaning-hence belief.

I hate people who come here with their bold statements, that use inconclusive evidence to try to prove a point that can't be proven anyway.

Just gets on my nerves... ya know?

You're right. Trust is something earned through behaviour and truth, but it is also a two-way thing. How can you have trust in something/something that you don't even know for sure exists?

To me, God has a crappy way of going about things ...

I can't remember who in here said it, or even if it is on another thread, but it was something about "only a true Christian goes to heaven" - what a load of bollocks!!! If I have no way of knowing if God exists - it's not like he's jumping out in my face and waving his hands around - then WHY should I believe or worship him? Hence my NOT (supposedly) going to Heaven.

Why should I trust someone/something that seems to get off on mentally TEASING a human being? It's like a riddle that has no answer. Is THAT worth trust???

It's bulls**t!

tornado, maybe what you are referring to is common sense and discernment, I'd say you are on the right track with the trust concept, Namaste Sheri

I don't get how people how lives while studying these subjects so much. :: blink blink ::


And being on these forums so much too. >.>

zero, People have studied these things over many years. The years you haven't lived yet. You are curious though, so one day you will have the knowledge that we have. Be patient, listen and continue asking questions.

So I WILL have the knowledge you have? Depends on wich subject you're talking about. I have a few in mine I'm quite educated in.



1) If G-d is All Things (omnipresent), then doesn't G-d already know who trusts him?

This is the same as the old "Why give us free will if he already knows who will obey him and who won't"

Speaking for myself ... I study these subjects because of my deep passion for the past. Went to college where I received a Bachelor of Science, History and Classics, from Ball State University. My area of specialty for the past twenty years--Greco-Roman culture, Early Christianity, and the Middle Ages [mid 1400's]. I spend several hours everyday reading, doing research, and speaking with like-minded individuals here and elsewhere. Being retired allows me to indulge myself in what I love to do.

Well, that's my story.

Not downing on anyone, but are you only social with people who study the same things as you? That group of people isn't really.....socially adapt. In my opinion of course XD...

Scientists aren't the best people to look at and "chill" with. =P


I was just saying that it seems like these people are constantly studying or debating, that they never seem to have time to 1. Be social, 2. Not be what society calls a "geek".


I know we need to accept people more, but come on now. >.>