I have this idea that having twelve grown men following him around all day, asking him everything from what's gonna happen when we die to what direction is it best to poop in, that Jesus would have finally had enough one morning and turned on his brothers in anger saying, "Why do you come only to me with your questions? I am only one man, all I can do is tell you what I've lived. What have you lived? How do you know that I am the only way to know God? How dare you ignore His wonders only to follow me around and eat the scraps from the table of my knowing? I don't want to see any of you again until you've watched a month of sunsets, had some really good sex with a woman you love, or raised a child of your own! My Father is all around you and yet you trouble me for second-hand information and mere advice. You want my advice? Live your goddamn lives, allaya!"

Oh, wait, he did say that, or near enough, in the Gospel of Thomas:

How do we know if he didn't say that? It's possible that the original text of him complaining could have been removed
So many things were added and removed and mistranslated in the Bible. You never really know.

it's sad isn't it.

No, its not sad IMO, lick your own wounds, people.

It's quite funny for me to see people who believe that the Bible is the ultimate source of truth. Ridiculous.

And it's quite sad for me to see people reject the Bible and God's word and eternal Life. Very sad indeed

No mud slinging!:angry: I've seen enough of that with Tim Kaine and Jerry Kilgore.




I do reject the current Bible because it has been mistranslated so many times that it is distorted severely. And if you study history, you'll find that most of those ideas were taken from previous religions(Zoroastrianism,The Cult of Aten, etc.). Although, that doesn't make them any more or less valid.

I don't find any sense in believing in someone's imagination. Eternal life?! Are you sure? God ?! Proof??? If there was a God he would have killed me by now. I'm so blasphemous Life is what matters not some made up "higher powers".

Still, to automatically reject some wise words or good sense just because it's written in the Bible is foolish too..
You don't have to be religious to take at least something from what's written there; no matter where it came from. I see far too many people arguing semantics to the point where the original meaning of what was written is lost in the shuffle..

No, what's ridiculous is that you would say something like that, the Bible has power in it my friend.


The Bible contains power if you look for it, you just have to know what verses to look for.

When you say the "current Bible," are you referring to the various translationa available today, or else one spefic one in mind? AS the Bible is the attested to document from ancient times, what is amazing is that there are over 5,oo seperate pieces of it today, and if you compare all of the various textual theories concerning how it is to be received and translated into modern languages, there is agreement with some 98% of the manuscripts, with minoe variations due to scribal additions, misadditions etc...

Someone who takes up and reads any good modern translatation of the ancient greek/hebrew/Aramiac texts would find that they would be reading very close to what the original writers/authors had wriiten down...

Keep hearing that the Church, heretics etc kept adding too the ancient texts, and corrupt them, so modern versions are corrupt, but if you check the standard texts of Kurt Aland and Bruce Metsger, than you will find assurance that the Bible of today is very close to the original text wriiten in the originals...

No other ancient document has so many attesting manuscripts, varients, copies of the originals that can be dated so closely to the originals... So one can have confidence to read and study the Bible today, believing that the Holy Spirit will teach and instruct them in it...

then learn koine Greek.

The traditional King James Version.



One would also find that Hebrew words can have multiple meanings and conotations.
This is why Christians typically hate people who call themselves witches, because the KJV of the Bible says that they are bad. However, the hebrew words that are used have the conotation of these witches or sorcerers being malicious, but that isn't really conveyed in the KJV of the Bible.



The original whats? The Bible wasn't one complete volume that just popped up one day.
Parts have been removed (The Septuagint), added on (Revelation), and just thrown away (Enoch).



I agree with most of what Jesus said actually, its the other stuff that bothers me.

Hey dude , in light of your own rendition of the 'gospel of Thomas' , are you saying that John misinterprested when he stated that Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." ( John 14:16). What do you think the purpose of Jesus' earthly visit was??

the septuagint was a translation of the torah into greek.

Jesus on Earth, lived like a human, and I have just about no doubt there were days when He just wished everyone would piss off.

Oh, I'd say "John" came pretty late to the gospel game and his views are likely entirely due to Paul's de-emphasis of the words of the man Jesus; focusing almost exclusively on the Resurrection and the Christ. None of the synoptic gospels have much at all to say on the subject of Jesus's status as "only begotten son;" that's pure John. I'd say John's gospel was prolly written to please the priest-class in need of a justification for their craft. If god is within each person, there's no need for an ecclesiastical hierarchy, is there?

As for the purpose of Jesus's earthly visit, here's my take: After the Job fiasco, God realized that he really didn't understand what humans were going thru and came down to check it out. Jesus didn't die for our sins--after all, how can we imperfect creatures sin against a perfect God; what kind of vindictive a-hole would condemn us for what it is only in our natures to do?--Jesus died for the sins committed over and over by His Father in the Old Testament. Jesus died because God deserved it for what he'd put the human race thru. Jesus coming to Earth is what taught God compassion; Jesus' ministry was God's first act of compassion; the resurrection was his second. Jesus was resurrected not to proclaim that a few folks who followed a few obscure rules might go to heaven if in their last moments they said the catholic equivalent of "uncle," but to free all humans from the cruel promise of hell. Jesus died to free all mankind from the Judgement.

Well, you asked.

It was originally part of the bible, but then latter removed due to the fact that it was deemed to contain "angel worship". However, the Jews still kept it because it contained lots of history.

uhh, no. it is the name given to the greek translation of the old testament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint). it could not be removed anymore than you could remove the KJV or NIV from the bible.

The Bible is a compilation of stories, but most of them are manipulated in order to give Christianity only a good appearance. I cannot be in a religion which hides so many things from it's followers.

Sometimes I would just love to know the ultimate truth and be merely an spectator of this world but it's kind of difficult when you ask yourself really big questions

ok. ys god exists in us all, but what we do with him depends on our education regarding him. that is why the heirarchy exists. to teach, and help us develop a better more informed chance to understand him within.

So if we need to be educated regarding the god within us, where did the members of the heirarchy get their education that they now qualify as educators? If god is truly within each individual, it stands to reason that each of us has an equal opportunity to know it.

well you learned your "religion" from probably many sources if your religion is " spiritual " in nature. you didnt come up with that concept all by yourself right? it may be a conglomeration of many things that you read, heard, or came up with.

christian priests, pastors and such are doing what they think is their calling. to help others on their voyage. maybe in the future, we wont need priests or pastors because the internet is such an invaluable informational tool.

also forgot to reply regarding the "god within us"

this doesnt mean it is only a personal god that only each of knows. it means "The" god the same one that lives in everyone. he can do that you know.

Um, well, I don't have a religion. I do quite well without any beliefs; belief just seems to gum up the works. Besides, if the thing is so uncertain that I have to "believe in it," what does it have to do with reality?

I don't learn what makes a good life from anyone but me; the source of that kind of knowing is internal. I look around and see what resonates with what I know about reality and follow my intuition. All that stuff you're talking about, if you get your reality from these second-hand sources, how do you even know you're dealing with reality? The only way to know is if it speaks to you, or as I say, resonates with who you are.

I'm not saying these priests you're talking about aren't well intentioned. I'm saying that it doesn't matter...unless what they say reflects what your heart tells you. No one knows your life better than you; no one knows everything you're up against but you. No one. When it comes to your life and what you need, you are the authority.