On another forum, a poster said something like, "Nobody knows their blood type, but everyone can hum the theme to The Beverly Hillbillies."

This got me thinking. Has anyone done research that would determine exactly how many songs the human brain can retain? I don't mean by lyrics, necessarily, but tunes themselves. Why three notes of a melody can be played and people can instantly recognize it (and win money!). Why a particular song will sit in one's head for hours whether the song is liked or not. Why can I remember a commercial jingle I haven't heard since I was four years old and still sing it, not only word for word, but the same key I first heard it in? Why do we recognize "chord" as different from "dischord" or that sharp is not on key, and neither is flat.

Enlighten a music lover, eh?

Music should not be looked at as a whole. It is simply a combonation of notes and chords, mixed together.

Why do we have songs stuck in our head that we like/don't like? Probebly because of the sub-concsious mind. Take the song 'Cars', by Gary Numan, for example. 'Cars' was his biggest hit; he had no other actual hits (go with me here). It's considered one of the best 'One Hit Wonders'. Because of it's thereforth popularity, we have it go through our minds constantly because of us wantin' to be like everyone else.

Or, because of the actual notes. 'Fur Elise; (For Elise), by Beethoven (1770-1827), is very popular, even today (for classical music in general, that is). Most people can easily regonize nine note main meleody, but have no idea what the song is called. It's even used in a lot of rap songs today. And guess what; if you've never heard the song before, and you were familiar enough with music to recognize the note to the sound it produces, you would look at the actual sheet music for 'Fur Elise', and even the most advanced muscians would think it would be the worst song ever. An Eb between to E naturals. It's a natural 'don't' of music.

'Stairway to Heaven', by Led Zeppelin (A zeppelin is something like a blimp. Led = lead, so a lead blimp O_o (that was sorta off-topic)), contains plenty of chord changes and stuff, and it's one of the most popular classic rock songs in history.



Thats sorta like tellin' the difference between major and minor chords. Major, in simple terms, means joyful sounding. Minor, in simple terms, means horror sounding. Most songs and easily be divided as either major or minor. 'Oh Blah Di, Oh Blah Da', by The Beatles, can easily be considered a major song. On the other hand, 'Tocatta In G', by Bach, can easily be considered a minor song. 'Tocatta In G' is the same or more popular as 'Fur Elise', but yet the majority of people can't name the song; just recognize they've heard it before; 'your brain remembers what you forget'.

Apparently a lot of songs can be retained. The brain never "forgets". You just have memory lapses.

It is a fact that all humans like things that are familiar. Songs are no exception.

All right, I'll ask it a different way.

Why do our brains interpret a particular sound as harmonious or off key? What is it in the brain that enables us to determine whether something is in harmony or whatever? Why does one sound "good" and other sound "not good"?

I was going to use Pachebel's Canon as my example of a recurring theme in popular music. Once you know that "tune" you can recognize it in many places (although "Go West" by the Village People/Pet Shop Boys is the only example coming to mind at the moment.)

This too..

In some cultures stories were set to music because a melody is one of the things most easily remembered and by singing the epics (I think of Norway maybe, or Iceland) they are easier to remember in a world where paper is hard to come by or maybe non existant (assuming people had a chance to learn to read or write at all). There was a documentary done about this.. A community may have only one person who knows all the songs and stories of their people. If the youth are not showing much interest in the old ways anymore, what's going to happen to that history? If the singer of those songs dies before he or she can pass them on, it's gone for good. There are people who go to these communities to learn the Elders' epic songs and get them recorded so that when the youth get to a point when they feel they'd really like to know about the olden days now, there will be old days to tell them of.

Said pharoah: Music should not be looked at as a whole. It is simply a combonation of notes and chords, mixed together.

Why not? Why are these notes more pleasing to the ear and heart than those? Is it cultural, genetic or personal preference?

We can talk about perfect pitch here too. Why are some people born with that? Aside from helping tune a piano, what good is it?

How do we recognize perfection? Why can some of us differentiate between sharp/flat/perfect when others cannot? What evolutary reason would exist for such a trait?

How did deaf musicians build symphonies if they couldn't hear them?

Mathematics is the foundation of harmony. When something is off, our brains detect it as being off-balance. Actually, I have no idea, never mind.

Haha, well at least you admitted.

Just my opinion but ever notice what music resononates differently with each individual.
we accept this resonance, and accept the differences amongst us.
If we could only do this in regards to religion, or any other personal choices, one would wonder at what the world would be like if we shared in that same acceptance.

Hi Yelekiah:

Good try, you actually had me thinking.

Sounds,and rhythm have power. When we hear a combination of notes,chords our brains mathematically uses geometry and ratios(Pythagoras). Sound has a relationship to geometry,harmonic related sounds are used to create geometric fields that influence us through tones. When we hear a sound,music,our eardrums are actually being vibrated by suble waves in the air molecules around us. Musical instruments generate tones composed of several sinusoidal waves with harmonic frequency,and in music notes are assigned to tones(pure tones is a single frequency with no harmonic content,no overtones). This corresponds to a sine wave. The practice of basing musical harmonics upon one key note is known as Tonality,which puts it in tune with the entire universe. Classical music like Bach,Mozart,Beethoven are harmonious,uplifting good music. Atonal music does the opposite,it's not spiritually uplifting or motivating. Making the flesh feel good,hedonistic desires and our sensuous pleasure.

composers who studied music all their life get to know what progressive melodies etc are pleasing to hear, there is some music psychology in here probably.
the way we remember a tune probably has somthing to do with how our brains work in terms of memory, eg if you were given a list of words you could recall say 10 out of 20 as an example, because there is nothing to link them together, people who study mind mapping, or anyone who remembers the list using a method to link each word together to create a small story will have a much higher recall rate than those who dont,
because the tune we hear is pleasing in the sense that it is kept within the key of the song and structured well, our brains may remember it because we can recall the notes that fit in with the song, hard to explain what i mean..
eg if somone were to play one note which happens to be also the beginning note of a nursery rhyme or somthing memorable like that its quite likely for you to recall that song, because you know what will sound good after that pitch, ahh i dunno. probably a better explanation.
im sure that a huge percentage of people will remember a song that is tonal and kept in a range of notes, eg played in a cMajor scale, whereas if you were played an atonal experimental piece you couldnt because there is nothing to link the notes to that is farmilliar to you. :S

Music is found to be a part of every culture that we know that much about. It is not understood why music is so universal to humans. What is know is that it creates an emotional response. Even music that has not been heard before does this. Normally, universal human responses can be shown to aid survival in some way. Music is a mystery in that we respond but know not why, we just do. Enjoy it often.

....
music makes things in our minds, but afterward most of them fade away. What remains? In one old story about Mozart, the wonder child hears a lengthy contrapuntal mass and then writes down the entire score. do you not believe such tales, for history documents so few of them that they seem to be mere legend, though by that argument Mozart also would seem to be legend. Most people do not even remember the themes of an evening's concert. Yet, when the tunes are played again, they are recognized. Something must remain in the mind to cause this, and perhaps what we learn is not the music itself but a way of hearing it.

Actually when you mentioned mathmatics, i thought you were going to continue on and mention Math Rock/Metal ...



Mind Freak 20:12










PEACE

Thanks all of you for input thus far. Hickory dickory Doc is a fine example of limerick. When I'm trying to explain the rhythm of that particular poetry to someone, I suggest they try and sing their limerick to the same tune and see if it fits. 7,7, 5, 5, 7 is the suggested number of syllables that should be on each line of the poem itself and when you sing the tune, you hear the similar pattern.

The alphabet song and "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" are the same. I would assume someone decided the alphabet was going to be a lot easier for a kid to learn if they could make a song out of it. An alphabet is just a random collection of symbols so if each symbol can be "remembered" as part of the lyric, they learn the order and can later associate the picture of the letter with its name in the song itself. (Trouble with this rote learning, though, is the dependancy of it. I still have to count the damned alphabet off on my fingers just about before I can figure out how many letters lay between B and L. heh. )

I played clarinet in band for years we took very little theory about the mathematics side of rhythm and tone and the like. I think what you say about experimental fits my inablity to "dig" a lot of jazz. If my brain can't pick out the recurring themes within a piece, my brain pretty much dismisses it, and the best jazz is often the stuff made up on the fly. heh.

I get ya. I'm a CD fanatic. I get music from the library every week and try to pick from a variety of cultures and styles (I like bagpipes! so there! More bagpipes I say!) but sometimes I'll come across an artist or song collection I assume I've never heard of and then suddenly it's "oh, I know this.." and it always comes as a pleasant surprise to know I can recognize the sound of it, even if I don't know what the name is. Mind you, that's my trouble with classical. If I hear a piece I like and it's just got some number designation, I'm never going to remember that and then when I want to find the piece again, I'm up the creek...blah.

Everything is energy. Sound too. Sound can transport you just like your eyes (light). The universe has a pattern & only through inner silence will you be able to use your innate senses to negotiate the pattern. Your problem is physically distinguishing between light & sound. You take both for granted but do not separate them. Your questions are truly meaningless. You may as well ask what is the purpose of being able to hear at all. In other words memory has nothing to do with the brain or what you even think of memory as being. The brain exists only to tell the body what NOT to do.

Hi Jonb, I was using the atonal as an example of bad music, the opposite of tonal(good music). I just use Mozart,Bach,Beethoven(good music),all Classicals and did not want to offend anyone by mentioning some modern musicians,who play music that makes me feel good, centered on gyrations of the flesh and not spiritually motivated,(bad music) who some people like,and I respect that. Music can be used or misued,with music you can discover the power of sound and then misuse it to manipulate others,it can be hypnotizing because the sound can imprison your Awareness and lock you into a vibratory rate and you become subdued. There are sounds that can stimulate deterioration or growth. And some music can kill your plants. The acoustic effects of the rhythms of certain types of music can be harmful to us. You are not aware that you are resonating with music which is emitting a wave signature you are in syn with it. Fields (sonic field)are being created when music is played,the harmonics of music have affects within the pattern of our minds and the neurochemical processes of our consciousness. Our very thoughts ring with their own distinct wave pattern.

ive read several times that rhyme was invented for the sole purpose of helping the bard remember more precisely how the story went. i find that fascinating.