Fact or Fiction?

Also, I ask of your help.

First of all, is there any written history from any Roman officials or anyone else involved during the time of Jesus Christ? For e.g. news or reports during written down at that time.

from a historic standpoint ~ it wouldn't surprise me if such documentation existed, but keep in mind that Jesus might have been portrayed as a rebel disturbing Rome's pogrom..

my opinion....

FICTION..... A good writing none the less.... maybe some fact basis to it.... but really??

think of this..... Just as an example....

Adam and Eve..... making all of humanity?? 2 people only??? Not a hope in heck that this is even possibly true....

Noah's Ark??? The 'boat' would have to of been as big as Japan to house 'all the animals' in the world.......

Now with these 2 examples......

there may have been an 'Adam and Eve'..... and they may have had a wack of kids....
the Ark??? One big honking boat... the possibility is there that someone may have built this....... and maybe even for the exact purpose that it says in the Bible.... But, if you take years ago, to now... how do you know.... say living in Egypt, and something happens in England.... only 'word of mouth' passed on from one person to the next..... now... society has travelled, and news, and tv and media of all types...

how come no stories of any of this exist today???? My opinion is that these were just 'stories'....

and the biggest story of all time....

MARY the VIRGIN mother of Christ....

Joseph wasn't aware that Mary was foolin' around on him....
No virgin that I'm aware of in recorded time has ever had a baby.... other then envitro fertilization or of the like.....

those 3 stories alone... tell me that it just isn't possible that any of this happened as it was written.....


**oh boy... I bet that I've opened up a whole can of worms here**

*just my thoughts*

Nope. Just somethin' to read and keep the people entertained back then.

Why else would it come in the form of a book?

^Ok, that made no sense, but it sounded solid and good, didn't it?

here's a good link: http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77/

Christ was mentioned by Josephus, a jew. and by Pliny the younger and Tacitus.

I would also like to neatly add onto the "Bible" topic at hand with something about UFOs in ancient history.

A fine example I found on google was this old painting:


Notice the strangely round object in the sky? Could UFOs have been around for longer than we actually think?

And another source of information about UFOs and ancient history is this site:

http://www.bibleufo.com/

I was reading it last night and alot of the material is very fascinating!!

The sources are questionable though, but still.. has anyone checked out this website and believe it?

The points and thoughts about UFOs and the goverment is very astrounding:

"The government can't admit the truth because that would be to recognize a power over which they could have absolutely no control. Lobbyist could not bribe them, congresses could not impose rules on them, they wouldn't pay a dime of tax, and they are not even a voting constituency. They are powerful, technologically advanced and can go where they want and do what they want without government control, a politician's worst nightmare."

I still have yet to read the rest of the site even if it's trite, i still find it very interesting to say the least.

what a question

Is the bible real? well some of it might be, however there are some things that seem to have been taken out, rearranged to suit the churches.

Looking at it from the ancient astronaut theories then the ark was a submarine of which Enki told and showed Noah how to build, Mary was not impregnated, but was the surrogate mother of one of the ephilum and adam and eve were hybrids or eve was cloned somehow from a dna strand that adam had taken from him when he was anethnatised by some alien doctor. Hmmm and poor Enoch was taken to the 10th planet where he met up with some giant and was scared witless.
The bible is full of contradictions, such as the ages of Jesus and his brothers, the resurection dates are in disput as no work would have been done on a sabeth, yet it is said that Mary visited him on the day before his resurection and that would not have happened as she would have been kept at home to prepare for the sabbeth.

you can get a freebie on line in the form of a booklet called who was jesus and it tells of the debate in there.

You see the bible has been rewitten and translated from so many laguages that something had to go missing or become misentirpritated. (and if they were crap spellers like me god forbid)

I suggest that you read the book of the prophet Ezekiel in the old testament and then find online the book of Enoch and decide for yourself. There are many people that find the bible easy to accept, I for one am NOT one of these people, however I do like all the facts before me, before I make a judgement, but on my fact finding tours I find that facts hide away from me or have been made vague by others.

enjoy and good luck on your quest

Many parts of the Bible are undoubtedly bits of history, including things such as the Assyrian attack on the Northern Kingdom of Israel, and the Babylonian conquest on Judah (although the actual nature of these events differs somewhat from the Bible's account, they still actually did happen).

Overall, the Bible is NOT a history, and usually not a completely reliable source of history. Much of the writings of events dated to Solomon are complete fiction, conceived to serve a religious purpose as an origin myth. Even amongst much of the 'historical accounts', there is distortion because the writer is writing with a specific purpose in mind, and 'bends' the truth a bit.

some funny thing bible is, how exacly did we go from adam and eve ???
i mean it clearly states in bible, that no Brother and Sister should have any kinbd of sexual relationship, so hmmh from what i understand hmhm
ADAM (Male)
Eve (Female)
Only two people on the earth at the time, so h hmhmmh HOW DO WE GO ON, IF we are accepting the gods way, and his rules ???

HOW, does a guy spread his hands and separates the ocean ???

and i mean noone really wrote these things as they were said and done, we know that people tend to add to the stories as they go on and are retold,
as someone stated above, person might have build a boat, and it turned into a ship size of the japan, lol,
i just think that stories in the bible are based on truth, however 90% are changes and added stuff,
i mean we could have started with a bug, and it became and elephand when thestory was writen down

Probe Ministries seems to be a Christian based web site..could be wrong.

I also could be wrong about this...but I was under the impression that both Josephus AND Tacitus were proven forgeries....

::shrug::

Pliny the Younger and others wrote of his execution. It didn't gather more than a smal note. In regards to Jesus, yes, that is fact, but the supernatural stuff?.....well.....that is creative fiction if you ask me.

Just a note...Jesus was nobody in the world of Rome. No more than a 'trouble maker' among the Jews. While the Crucifixion is paramount in the realm of Believers...it was no more than a 'political' question to the Romans...Pontius Pilot didn't want Ceaser involved because it would show what an inept leader Pontius was, etc.
It just wasn't news worthy.

Headlines:

Today Jesus of Nazareth was Crucified


Might as well have read:

Today a Chickens Feathers Were Plucked

Well first of all, that is a very difficult question to answer, nobody knows the real truth and if i knew that i'd be very rich , i personally don't believe Adam and Eve theory, i prefer the one of Charles Darwin, but i do believe that there was a person called Jesus and came to show people the right way, but things stay kinda unsure, The Bible, Qoran...are full of fairy tales..maybe i'm wrong....i don't know

the way tolkien describes the story of the ring (lotr) is a good analogy that can relate to the story of jesus ~ history became legend, legend became myth...& for two & a half thousand years, the ring passed out of all knowledge.. perhaps this is true of many tales that span the ages, the original events turning out very different than what is spoken aeons later..

well, jesus was basically just a Rabbi that opposed the traditional Rabbi rule - such as disabled, lepers ect, couldn't enter the temples because they were classed as 'un-perfect'. and only 'perfect' people could enter the temple's. and as of such, jesus went outside the temple and treated them as 'normal' people. and as a rabbi, jesus would of had a wife - mary of magdaline. so yeah, there would have been at least tiny notes on his existance, but you gotta remember, jesus was quite a popular name back then.
the VIRGIN mary... she only stated that her son was sent by god, was due to the fact that un-married people back then, could not have sex or above all, have children as it was un-holy. and as mary and joseph were not married and they had been boning to much, they both suddenly thought 'oh-noes!'. and so mary made up a story to save herself from being stoned and getting a whore title. (both very very bad things in those days)
the arks already been said, its blasphemy really, a japan sized ship, built in little time and well... I doubt we could even do that now, with more than one guy building it.

but the only truth in the bible, are the parts that aren't 'miracle'-ised up. such as the wars, which have already been stated. oh, and im not to sure, but i remember hearing that their were no jewish slaves in egypt around the bible-pharohs time. so moses rescuing them, well couldn't have happened. but then again, he was talking to a bush set on fire...

but the bible holds 99.6% truth in it, the historical wars and such. the bible contradicts itsself so much, that its really hard to hold any belief in it, well for me it is anyway.

Nothing in this world could possibly hold more contradictions than your entire post.

many things has been written down, islam even talks about jesus, and incase you FORGOT

YOU people are just so close minded, you don't think outside of the box, you think that GOD, the maker and creator can't do WHATEVER he wants,

I have 3 things to say

1, adam and eve lived 100's of years, and their kids had kids and it multiplyed, and I'm sure thay had like 10 kids at once also, God made them able to handle it.

2, Noah's Ark, if any of you had read the bible, and I don't mean one page, you would see that it took Noah 100 years to build the ark, that seems pretty big to me don't it?

3, this made no sense, she didn't cheat on him, she was a virgin I don't see how you came up with this one, this is retarded crap.

MOST of you never read the bible and say

"well, to me it was fake just to make people feel good and enjoy"

no, I'm sorry, bible don't make you feel good, it tells you how much of we are losers, jerks, evil, and sickening we are and people can't handle the truth of how evil they are.

sorry if I "offended you" because that's what everybody says WHENEVER us christians prove stuff wrong, no matter what anyone says you're skull will stay thick.

God, made it so people could lived 100's of years, and after a while we started living less because if we still loved for 100's of years the WHOLE world would be so jammed up with people.

You say "it couldn't of happened, there's no way Noah could build that ark, or adam and eve had that many children"

well, this song is perfect (God will make a way, when there seems to be no way, he works in ways, we can not see, he will make a way for me. he will make a way, he will make a way.)

you see adam and eve as plain old humans, when they weren't.

http://www.finalfrontier.org.uk/bible.htm

I think the problem with asking "Is the Bible true?" is that the Bible is so varied in topic, scope, and authorship.

I think of it like this: if I tell everyone on this forum to write something about cats, I'd get 5 factual essays on cats, 3 poems about how cute cats are, 7 fictional stories about cats, etc. Now, I can put all those things in a book and say "This is THE Cat Book." Now let's say all cats suddenly disappeared from the earth. 2000 years go by and there would be a huge crowd of people believing everything in "The Cat Book" is the honest truth about cats.

NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY THAT ANGELS HAVE WINGS.

Part of the problem with the Jesus Crucifixion accounts are that they portray Pontius Pilate as a kind of almost cowardly man, intimidated by the Jews. He was not; although not a good governor, he was reportedly cruel and domineering.

No, neither Tacitus or Josephus were forgeries. Where did you hear that?

Lapi'che

But you are right.

What every one is forgetting are the religions that existed BEFORE Christianity or any of it's related religions.
Christianity IS real to those that believe in it.

The reknown Josephus passage on Christ is considered almost universally to be at least partly fraudulent, and many scholars consider it to be entirely fraudulent, since the only copies of Josephus's works that contain the passage passed through the hands of Eusebius, a Christian apologist in the 4th century.

It is kind of hard to beat the 359 (or more) contradictions that are in the Bible!

Very true. You also have to discern literal stories from the metaphorical ones.
The stories have been translated so many times, and portions have been added and removed. This can make it even more difficult to compare with history.

Sorry had a brainsquirt. I was thinking as a whole. My copy of Josephus does not mention Christ neither does my 'The Histories' by Tacitus. That is what I didn't get.

Lapi'che

i dont see many contradictions... but I guess the people that wrote the bible thought the same

but yeah, its impossible to say how much 'truth' is in the bible as it has been changed, added to and also things have been took out to suit the churches tastes. so i reckon its up to the individual to decide what s/he holds as truth, either all of it, some of it or none of it at all. so long as they hold their beleifs in the truth of the bible to their own, they can follow it on their own accord. such as with everything else within this world.

the bible isn't really meant to be a history book, it's meant to be a book of truth, it's like a manual guide on how to act and how you should be.

B.I.B.L.E.

B. Basic
I. Instructions
B. Before
L. Leaving
E. Earth

LOL,


I love it when bible freaks call other people closed-minded because I they believe the ludicrous tales in that outdated work of fiction.

Hahaha.

Bible freaks? how about sinner freaks when they say they grew up out of a monkey!

that's really funny.

Ahem.

The Da Vinci Code.

Read it.

Know it.

people believe that garbage just so they have a reason not to believe in the bible (Da vinci code admits itself it isn't real)

DaVinci Code, fictional story like National Treasure, the authors said so.

Besides i believe their is a creator only he is like a child he makes something then gets bored with it, so that god isno really paying us any attention, only the servants he created are watching over us. whether you believe them to angels or aliens, makes no difference, the bible is, well a congolmeration of various beliefs, particularly the christian bible. No it is not all true, only what we personally believe is true is enough for me to understand ones devotion.

why is he bored with us? because there aren't any "people coming from the dead" or something like that?

just because he don't make HUGE places getting crushed anymore that don't mean he left us.

he does but he doesn't talk to us no more because we have gotten so low, so low we aren't worth being thrown into hell, we deserve more than that alone. and we keep getting worse, taking praying out of school, banning the colors red and green for christmas, and now having an upsidedown christmas tree, and now you can't have Jesus's birth statues on your yard because people get mad.

prayer in school violates seperation of church and state, the rest of that i have never heard of.

I know people who were arested by police because they prayed in school.

I wonder if they Bible is real as it was wrote for man by man... But i have not doubt the God it speak's of is real... But thats just what i think....

what have you proved wrong?
where is the proof that adam and eve lived for 100's of years?
where is the proof that noah lived for a 100 years too?
where is the proof that mary was infact a virgin and not just getting a bit on the side from the local milkman?

the bible isnt proof, whether you believe it or not.


you contradict reality here
hundreds of years ago people lived alot shorter than they do now.
now in the 21st century people are living into their 100's and the average age is far higher than in jesus' time. yet there are many more millions on the planet now than hundreds of years ago.
how do you explain that god is letting us live longer despite the fact the earth is getting more and more full? this contradicts what you believe


the same could be said that people(like you) believe the garbage thats in the bible because they cant except the reality of life and death. they need to believe a fairytale to get through life

The bible seems to prove itself in its accuracy. By this I mean that it was written by different people, in different countries, speaking different languages, from different social classes...yet when it is read in its entirety, it is theologically consistent, it is archeologically and scientifically accurate and it proves to be a beakon of morality second to none. There is no reason in the world to doubt the accuracy and truth of the bible, while every reason to doubt those who seek to destroy its credibilty.
Also many who seek to pass rather sweeping criticism of the bible have never actually read the book! How rediculous to assume the worst of a book which christians and non christians alike agree is a moral masterpiece!
I would never tell any one what to believe, but I would point out how to be better informed about what one believes.

Explain to me please we're it says Jesus was a rabbi?

well in the thousands of years that have passed since jesus was around, i dont think theres any recorded evidence of someone being born from a virgin(other than insemination), nor of someone walking on water or someone parting seas with their hands etc etc
i believe things that have evidence to back them up. not just some story written by some bloke who was bored one day

and htf did noah stop the lions from eating the other animals anyway

Thats the point! Jesus was different. He was Gods son, he could suspend the laws of nature, he could perform miracles. I do not suggest that this is common practice, or that it is normal, but I do believe that it happened.

The lions did not need to be mature they could have been cubs. simple. Any more querires???

tHats the point. jesus was different. He could suspend the well known laws of nature which no one else can do. He was different. I do not expect to see men walking on water, or rising from the dead every day. But because I strongly suspect that Jesus was Gods son I have good reson to believe that he did these, weird and wonderful things111
The lions need not have been mature they could quite easily have been cubs. I know if it were me I d certainly bring small cubs, makes more sense!

I believe the Bible is true

so do i. do you believe in a literal creation?

yes I believe it happened the way the Bible says it happened

its no fun when someone agrees!!!!!!!!!!1

So which account of Genesis do you believe in, the first version, where God creates things consecutively, with men last, or the "Chapter 2" version, where God plants a Garden, creates men, then creates animals for men to name?