Sorry to edit out this page (it may cause some confusement) it was a bad and unfinished first attempt at writing out a particular experience I had with a photograph. Somewhere below is a full script.

and that is your 'proof'?

If that is what you want to believe, who am I to interfere.

enjoy your hauntings.

(smart arse)

if you have proof, then show it and stop the bs guessing games.

jack ass

What exactly would be a 'worthy' guess to a nonsensical question? Without any visual representation it would be almost impossible to offer a cognizant opinion. Get to the point and 'finish' explaining your proof, otherwise the thread will be shut down. Flinging insults at one another will also bring dire consequences.

MM

Guessing what it was without any information would be wild speculation on our part, while we could try to assume some things. Like perhaps the person who passed on was involved in some way. A light around them, or spirits? Guessing does not do any of us any good. Why not just present your proof so that we can digest it, discuss it, and then decide what we think about it?

Hmmm... Hauntings must make a person snippy.

It is generally a poor idea to come to a forum and start off being such a "smart arse".

Considering the multitude of people that visit this site on a regular basis claiming to have proof of some supernatural life changing event, many here are sceptical just by the sheer nature of being lied to time and time again.

Coming here and offering proof in the very title of your thread, then getting snippy when someone asks about it makes me think that you are more than likely one of the folks off the very long list of people offering "proof" that somehow never materializes...

You know, that is the thing that gets me the most.

You really can not make a post wit ha title that promises proof, and then contains no such proof. I think it is begging for a bad response from the community. I do not even mid if you are going to do it later, but then why make a post where you basically lead people to believe it is already there.

"I got a secret I wont tell".

"I know something but you don't".

These statements always irritated me as a child, and I have to honestly say more so now that I am an adult.

Don't get me wrong i am a believer i've had things happen to me, but wouldn't you just be making the skeptic from ITS ALL IN YOUR HEAD PEOPLE even more skeptic. You told him that you would see him here yet there is no proof. What is that telling him. Instead of playing games you should be prooving to him that it is real, because it's just making us look bad and like we are fakes. kind of prooving his point

Ohdear-ohdear! Lonecat

I didn't actually start the attitude sir. Sacrasm should not be thrown about that way, especially by elders. Its the kind of attitude that prevents genuine 2-way discussion. There was no need for an abrupt and hurtful reply. Does being new here mean I have to take sarcasm? Skepticism and help I can accept. Any topics I write here, will come from geuine experience. Any help and comparision from decent members would be greatfully appreciated. I will be honest and curteous to the best of my ability, but sensitive to sarcasm (like most folk?) Ref to "nonsensical" I read something a member had written on one of the forums regarding "No proof" I asked the question half way through, out of curiosity and nothing more. I thought thats how 2-way discussions work, and if wrong, it still did not deserve sarcasm.
flaccon

Hauntings dont make me snippy fluffy, but sarcasm does. Ideally I'd love to meet with every skeptic, and listen to their idea's of "logical explaination" I'd like to find some logic, to put my mind at ease. I have to go out this afternoon, but tonight I'd like to continue with "proof" I'll bite my tongue and not ask any questions in between explaining.
bye for now, flaccon

I stopped half-way through the topic "Proof of Paranormal Activity" to ask skeptics a question. Gives me a tiny bit of insight as to who's who here. Listening to skeptic theories/replies also helps me recognise "natural phenomena"as opposed to "Paranormal phenomena" Skeptics still see "logic" whereas I sometimes dont. I feel sad that my question to the skeptics appears like I was "playing games" their replies were important, and also helps me work out who is more "open-minded" and who isn't. Its a shame I was met with sarcasm so soon too, being new gives me little and no confidence. If I ever had the guts to stand up and try enlightening a room full of people of certain events and spirit capabilities, only to be met with blunt sarcasm, then no wonder many victims dont come forward. Showing images relating to paranormal activity is easy (wether genuine or not) but explaining with written words is tough, and is open to fast closure. Background and careful detail of events are paramount to the open-minded skeptic, they are a tough challange. Its also paramount to learn who I'm talking to here(Referring to youngsters.... I dont want to be the one to tell em its all true!!.. lol ) At the end of the day, I'm not here to spread the word and look a fool, I'm here to share events and listen to others, help and be helped. Its important to prove what I have here, to the skeptic who has the tools to put it to the test, and the power of authority to be listened to by others. Whearas I've none. It'll take me a while to write out the details concerning this photograph I have, but I do promise to be honest with the sequence of events. .
Takecare for now

That would have been a great first post in this thread^.

as you claim to have photographic evidence i feel that there are a few people including myself who can offer as much possible realistic explanations for visual evidence, perhaps if you feel

as for the photo changing, without much detail on how the picture has changed, i cant really say much, if it has changed significantly and a major part of the photo, eg a person or object that is the main focus of the image dissapeared or was replaced, then that would be odd, and depending on how it changed you might attribute this either to,
your memory (i often am certain i have a picture of a certain thing or person, and i find the one im looking for and find it to be very different to how i remember it)

old? new photo? you probably know old photos are exposed to fade, crack and lose image quality but this sounds like a new photo. was it printed on computer paper? from film? do you have negatives to compare or an original digital image?
maybe the frame combined with the static from the tv could alter certain types of ink (doubtful myself but im not aware of the chemical compounds of photo ink and brass)
without much more detail on the photographic evidence i cannot really say much more, please give some more info if you can, thanks

i can understand your feelings to the responses posted here, it is the net after all, but to be honest there are a lot of posts from people, many of them new members claiming to have superpowers, or amazing proof of ghosts etc, but to never show anything as a result, and well it gets kinda annoying, but i think you have somthing to show us, or to ask us about at least

(Brief background).. We've had hauntings on and off for 12 years. 6 bad years, 6 good years (we referring to my partner, 3 kids and me) During a particular nasty haunting (Late May to Nov 1999) we had a good spirit visit us, wich actually helped us escape the evil spirit that had been causing havoc for 6 years, tho at the time of events I wasn't aware of how much havoc. The day the good spirit came, I feared the house would not with-stand the noise and vibration of these 2 spirits in battle. As the noises eased up, the battle continued but not through direct fighting. It appeared that the evil spirit was now on the outside looking in. We were often attacked or hindered by wild infestations. We've never had an evil encounter since 1999. The evidence I have is a photograph. I havn't been able to show this photograph yet, although I did have it examined by a Doctor, a Priest and Bishop for obvious reasons. The person in the photograph has since passed over (recently) . Pre the haunting mentioned above, I'd bought a set of 4 small brass frames (approx 2 by 2 inch) placed small photo's inside them and sat them on top of the television in my bedroom. We'd spent most of them days at my Mother's home, the haunting was too disturbing. I confessed to her how bad things were and she slept at our house for 3 nights, and witnessed nothing. A few days after she left. I noticed a shadow on one of the picture frames. The shadow was a fresh condensation mark. My Mother's face in the photo was shadowed with a carefully positioned condensation mark forming the image of a devil. Bold and artistic horns protruding from the top of her head. The shadow covered the face perfectly, it had a chin and a cape effect too. If I was to draw an outline of a devils image with horns, outline the face and chin, and the cape to follow, I coudn't have drawn it as perfect as this condensation mark. I was terrified by it, but I had some evidence to use when I finally sought outside help/information. The photo remained with a fresh-looking condensation mark for the next 18 months. It was put away safely, and I checked it regular, in fear of the condensation mark disappearing. So 18 months later, my Mother had started complaining of sharp pains to her chest. I checked on the photo during that week, and one of the horns had completely disappeared. I was worried with all kinds of surreal speculations. I discussed it with my partner and asked the most stupid question in the world "Do you think the horn has like broken off and gone inside her??" (in some sort of paranormal way...... it sounds stupid I know) Her pains got worse and she went for xrays that revealed one of her ribs had broken and it was puncturing her lung. She was made comfortable and she recovered from pain ......... (Can I ask a question here ?? Was I over-paranoid by asking my partner that stupid question above??)..... .. I took the photo and put it away completely out of mind. I never checked on it again, and even forgot where I'd put it. A year later (after recovering from my own physical illness .... paranormal-related I believe) I got the chance to move house, leaving all the bad memories behind me. I told Mum and Dad I was going to move away to Wales and asked them to come with me. We'd lived in Lancashire for 40 years, so I was amased when they agreed. We rented a house each and it was good times at last. 3 years later, my youngest daughter is wanting her birth certificate to apply for her passport. At this stage my Mother has been unwell for a few months and now needed some investigation. During my frantic search for the Birth certificate, I found an old briefcase that contained old paperwork etc, and as I opened it, the photo fell onto my bed. I hadn't seen it for 3 years. I picked it up (after a moments staring) and there was no condensation mark left atall, but there was a perfect outline left from where the condensation mark had covered. The perfectly outlined image of a devil. I wanted to burn the photo. My Mother went downhill fast from there, and passed over a couple of weeks later (peacefully thankgod) After that, I opened the back of the photo intending to completely destroy the image, and saw that the outline had also transferred itself onto the inside of the glass. I also found I'd packed the back of the photo with a folded up photo of me (Pregnant wi my youngest) I didn't destroy it, I put it back together, wrapped it up and put it away. ....... .......
... This experience has been very hard to put into words, and I might not have explained certain parts properly but I hope its been followable. I'm sure a photo like this could be faked, and a pathetic story conjured up (given the mind of Steven King.... wich I dont have) I'd like to see an end result of a faked copy. 1 Good question - ""Can the raised outline left behind on the photo be tested, to prove it has come from condensation ??" I havn't a clue how to explain the previous events we've witnessed. We didn't realise half of them at the time, we we're just amased that spirits existed, not realising their capabilities. Tho for the most horrid events of the first 6 years, I have firm back-up from people with good standing in our community. ---------

Where is the photographic proof?
Can you upload a copy?

Thanks for the understanding jonb, and thanks for remaining focussed with little to go by. I totally understand "annoyances" regarding the paranormal and its lack of proof/evidence. I've little patience for ridicule. I havn't had much time to gather evidence (when possible) and start sorting out the events in order. I'd rather move house and start again (this is my 3rd house move) I can very easy believe a photograph can alter through a chemical sense, I love logic, but coupled with other obvious events, it gives me quite a clear insight into spiritual existance. I have most dates/events scribbled down somewhere, but most of it is still fresh in my mind, even though it started 12 years ago. It took several hours writing out the details of the photograph tonight, I hope its written clearly enough to understand - Titled "A photograph (mark of a devil) Its a cruel write up that I didn't enjoy sharing. It isn't the sort of photograph I can load up on computer either, its far too disturbing. I,m willing to have it analysed professionally tho. I know myself its genuine. and tho I'd prefer to be classed as insane,, the medical profession says no Thanks for taking the time.

You need to do two things so that we skeptics can actually evaluate your claim:

1. Post the picture on-line, if possible, to be examined for fraud, problems in the photography, and the like.

2. If you believe the photo 'changed,' show us (if possible) a 'before' and 'after' copy.

You are basically throwing this account at us as if it were real proof, when it is not; all we have is your word.

I dont think a posted photo online can actually be examined for fraudulence. It can only be picked apart here. I'm willing to give it to anyone who has the knowledge to test and research professionally. Know of anyone?

I'm not a photo expert, but I could probably do a cursory examination. I DO know a few people with strong experience in photography, who could do better. There are almost certainly a few people on this board with strong experience with photography.

I hope that you have not had anymore distrubances in your new home and I am sorry to hear about the loss of your Mother. I would suggest with anyone who has had experiences like that to cleanse their homes. It sounds like you have had a horrible ordeal and one that you will never forget. Is it possible for you to post the picture here? If you do not feel comfortable that is fine and I ask not because I do not believe you but would like to see for myself. I do believe you and I do hope that your health is getting better. Take care,

Yes, sorry to hear about your Mother!

Flaccon are you not able to post the pic due to not having access to a scanner or a digital camera to upload the pic.?

Flaccon, I can't & won't discredit you. I'm just curious about the pic. My sister had a picture like that after a seance where something happended. She had an instamatic camera and a picture of flames with what appeared to be the devils head in it, was stuck halfway out of the camera after the seance. She took it to various so-called "Photographic Experts", and they couldn't work out how it happened. The only way was to stage something like the pic and take a photo.

I am a bit confused by your title. I understand your story and am glad you have decided to share it here.

I am not sure exactly why you are refering to photographic proof, when you offer no photo? You mention a photo, but I can just as easily mention a photo with an equally fantastic story behind it as long as I do not upload a photo to be evaluated.

As you are new, I am going to have to let you in on the fact that folks here that consider themselves sceptics do not take the word "proof" lightly, and to offer the word proof in the title and not produce anything is going to bring a good deal of negative comments to your thread; it is just the way it is.

We have had many many people offer "proof" and then after much debate be caught in a fabrication; it happens often here and people get tired of it.

If you have something that could actually qualify as proof, that is great, I will help you to upload it, or link to it; whatever needs to happen. I think that as things stand you are going to take a bunch of negative comments, and not much support. It kind of comes across as a bait and switch. That may not be your intention, but that is how it comes across..

Okay, wait.....I'm having trouble getting past "smart arse".

"Proof" is always inconclusive, until proven, in this case we would have to see the photo graph and go through countless tests to make sure it was not fabricated.

If there is proof then give us the link or upload the picture. I would like to see it, but not telling us exactly what it is will ruffle some tail feathers. I'm not sure what your ghostie looks like so I'm not sure wether or not I believe it.

Dear Fluffy, No amount of uploads will prove anything and I dont expect it to. I know that whatever I show or share here, will be open for a lot of negativity anyway, however I go about it. I havn't once offered to "show" any proof here, If the evidence I had was less sensitive, I'd be uploading. Ref to bait and switch, do you mean I may have used a sensitive story to gain positive comments ?? Or maybe I'm after some odd sort of recognition ?? I know the kind of recognition generated from such an experience, I know "Scepticism" as I had the pleasure for 30 years. I relayed the only experience to wich I have at least some evidence of, I've little and no evidence to other experiences, wich are probably more unbelievable really. I'm trying to share whatever I feel to be true (through experience) no matter how unreal it may sound. I'm willing to look into further possible capabilities spirits may have and may not have. I'm willing to listen to other people's experiences and look for logic, even within my own experiences. If you get the chance, please read up a short topic I tried explaining titled "Glowing knots in wood" I'm sure it was a "natural phenomena" its never happened before but I was willing to seek logic. I'm willing to have the horrid photo examined privately, with proper tools. If there's a way to examine and declare the photo as geuine, I'd still be met with negativity. Sad but understandable.
G'nite, flaccon

lol

To Flaccon

I was not being sarcastic towards you trust me i no what it is like not to be believed, and to be new here. I was simply saying that in another post you told a skeptic that you would proove to him here that you have evidence yet when i came here i seen no evidence, and the title of this post suggested that you had evidence. I did not mean to tread on toes i was just simply stating that when you say you have evidence and then we come in here expecting evidence and there is none what do you think other people and skeptics are going to think. I do believe your story but in a way it's kind of like false advertising. I am also sorry about your mother and i hope that everything is going well for you now. Please know that i to have learnt the hard way and have been warned that people will give you a hard time, will question you and find explanations for everyhing, but there are also alot of people who will stand up for you and believe you. So don't let this post stop you from having your say and what you believe.