Yes, I just found out (he died when my mother was 6). Apparently....he was a mason (and he was also American) and so were a few of my other releatives.

So, er, what do mason's do...exactly?

secret society thing. My father was one as well when he was healthy and had his job.

Some say plot to rule the world... some say they help the community with stuff and things...

*shrugs* My guess... join up and find out.

My grandfather is also a mason.

From what I've heard they're evil.

Phhht.. please. My father and the men that I knew that were masons are far from evil. I even doubt Ashley's grandfather was evil.

Like I said.. you wanna know about them.. join them and find out for yourself instread of reading paranoid conspericy theorists ideas about what they are.

What is a mason?? Namaste Sheri

The Freemasons are a fraternal organization with a system of degrees. 33 being the highest. The original Freemasons had oral stories about the Great Flood. They were hush-hush for a long time, given that they were a secret society, but nowadays, you can find out if someone is a Freemason (pretty easy). They have a secret handshake, some wear rings or use gestures as a form of identification, etc.

What exactly do they beleive about the great flood?

They believe that it was caused by a comet. And they wanted to create two pillars of knowledge that would withstand any destruction. One was a pillar of marble to withstand fire. The other a pillar of stone to withstand water.

Masons? forgive me if anyone is offended, but the Masons are a secret society of satanists who have the majority of the worlds governments under theyre control.

Oh please....they are a grown up version of the Boy Scouts...just a men's club.

As I understand them, they are like a group of people who basically look out for eachother. They do special favours for each other and sometimes they become almost 'above the law'. My friend at work's dad is a freemason, and apparently, a heck of alot of the people who are part of it are involved with the police. They dont necessarily break the law to get a fellow mason off something like a speeding fine, but they'll make sure they fall down any loophole to get them off.
You could well be surprised how many of the people you know are involved.

I could be missing the point of it all, but I can only go by what I've heard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemason

As SC said, my grandfather (and I'm sure her father also) was the furthest thing from 'evil'. He helped raise money for charities, helped with the community, with the hospital (Masonic Hopsital actually get why it's named that now...) - the same one he ended up dying in after being transfered in freezing weather in the middle of the night with chronic diabetes where he caught pnuemonia, he also helped run a place for orphans, etc. Little did he know not long after his only daughter would be one. And in general he was (and as was my grandmother) just an all-round nice person, everyone who knew him can attest to that.

So, if nothing else, I would say that Masons just helped with the community, and helped each other out etc. I hardly call that 'evil'.

Funny they should believe the flood was caused by a comet....

Comets are seen in artwork, the rainbow, etc. It all relates to the Flood.

Yes, indeed it is, which is why I'm surprised THEY knew that and it's slipped the grasp of so many others.

I second and third the notion that people should go to the source to find out the truth.

Half assed allegations are nothing but fodder for people with small intellects.

My Grandfather was also a Mason, as was my Father. >evil conspiracy my foot<

A couple issues with what has been said:
Some of you CAN'T find out first hand, unless a sex change is an option in the near future. It's a male only thing.

I've seen a little bit of stuff about freemasons doing awful things, and a very good friend of mine is a mason. One thing is for sure: IF there is any clandestine and greedy, power-hungry etc behavior is going on conciously, it's going on at the upper levels of it and there's not really a good way to find out about it, even joining won't likely get you into the loop if anythings clearly amoral. Of course, I'm sure people have joined to see if they could get out of speeding violations, but that's not quite "evil". Indeed, emphasis is placed on charity and being a good sumeritan.

A primary requisite for joining is that you can at least say that you believe in "God", but accepts any personal vision of this "God". There's also stories within the masonry about the teachings coming from Solomon (of biblical fame), but I think that's on the level of legends...don't really know if it's definitively been debunked or if there's evidence or what.

Ya see, that is why is is so hard to lose these silly legends and allegations about an organization.

People say "They perform erotic rituals and sacrifices"
Response: "No, I'm a member and we don't do that. Trust me, I'd remember"

People say "Oh, you just aren't high enough in the organization to know this then. I know its true because my best friends uncles barber told him, and why would I lie?"
Response: "Oh good grief"


People will believe what they choose to believe. Especially about an organization that restricts membership, or has private meetings. And, it doesn't matter how hard you try you could open up the meetings, reveal the minutes of the meetings, and swear in a court of law: people will just say you are 'hiding' the evidence.

Masons are for the most part, men who gather together for the most part in a common goal and belief.

http://www.grandlodgeofvirginia.org/whomason.htm

http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/

http://www.durham.net/~cedar/famous.html

here is a few sites

But it is true that not everyone can join the Masonic Order. They prefer professional people and it is not a place where you yourself can ask to join. You have to be someone with money, authority or intellect. My grandfather was a Master Mason, Inducted into the Grand Lodge of Scotland (Douglas Lodge) I still have his apron and his scriptures. My father was asked to join, as he was a business man and socially drank with many senior police officers who were members. He did not want to know, "To much back slapping, and under the table favours" Those were his very words. What I do know is that if some one believes they are involved with satanism or such like, They are talking through their posteriors.

That part I can believe. My grandfather was from a very wealthy family, was quite influential, and I'd say quite intelligent as he was involved in electrical engineering work. Still, that has nothing to do with being 'evil', and like I said, he did alot for the community, which is it seems what the Masons actually do besides having a secret handshake etc. It is true though that it's only (or was) a men's club, or men's smoko lol.

As for the Solomon link, I do believe that would be the Solomon I have read, which is not in the Bible. It contains both 'black' and 'white' magic, knowledge of demons, angels, incantations, fallen angels, how to thawrt demons, remove sickness etc. 'The testament of Solomon' and 'The Greater Key of Solomon' etc.

I do wonder though if they, with their comet/flood link were at all aquainted with the Book of Enoch, as that is where it is most plainly written....

here is a site on the Freemasons. I don't know how credible. But it sounded good.

The practices of the masons

Have fun.

Thanks for the info 101.

Where did you read about Solomon? The problem I have with first hand accounts of mason conduct is that it typically emphasizes the worldly benefits, acts of cherity or simple friendly fraternization. I doubt that a majority of masons even belief to be taking part in a form of ceremonial magic, which it seems, from what little I know, it is based upon initiation into such a group. I hope that people don't read my comments as saying not to trust masons. All that I wish to say is that I've not seen enough information to see the masons as fitting snugly into their image as charitable, fraternizing with benefits on the side.

I guess personal experience is the best evidence you can have. And don't expect it to be evidence to someone else, but only yourself.

I dare say that Masonic Lodges across the world are different, in how they are percieved by people around them. But personal evidence, will go a long way to correct misconceptions.

You infuriating people refuse to see the truth!!! It is probably because the Masons have a hand in the media and they direct attention away from themselves. If any of you would just look at the architecture and geometry of our nation's capital- which the Masons played a major part in constucting- you would see the truth. Phallic symbols and pentagrams are plentiful. The entire length of the Washington Monument is 666 feet for crying out loud!

My grand father was also a mason, but I think he only made it a few degrees.

I'm not saying all Freemasons are bad, the majority are good people. Many men in my family have been masons. The whole thing that gets at me is first that it's secret, but second they reveal more and more of there secrets as you climb further up the degrees. It's pyramid scam for power and influence. And then there are quotes like this:

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." (pp. 104, 105 & 819)

My cousin's friend's dad is a pastor at a church, where one day a very well dressed man came in to his office in an announced visit. Somehow (I forget) they got into an argument, and the pastor realized there was a demon in the visitor. He commanded the evil spirit get out of the man. The visitor suddenly flew back in his chair to the back of the room, and then with his legs flying wildly in the air, started shrieking and speaking in a higher pitched voice: I don't have to leave, I don't have to leave, over and over again. The pastor finally asked why don't you have to leave? The possessed man again in a higher pitched voice replied: Because his grand-father was a mason!


I think organizations like the Illuminati have infiltrated Freemasonry and are using it to there advantage.





http://www.thegoldenreport.com/asp/jerrysn...r.asp?a=963&z=1

good site about the great seal:

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/seal.htm

My Sig reads THE BOOK OF ENOCH, Solomon has it's own connection to that....I know of many...sources of information.




I really don't think soooooooo You're judging something you really don't understand. For one, you do realize that upon re-examining the texts of Revelation the Geomatra (which is EXACTLY what this '666' was supposed to be, the Hebrew Geomatra of the name to work out who this person was. Each letter equals a number) that the number was in fact 616. The number itself means NOTHING, it is simply a way to work out who this person is, for those with the wisdom and understanding on that calculation. People should really stop being so superstitious....

I have a tendency to agree with you. I don't know you. or who you are, but I think you are on the right track. My great grandfather was a mason, my grandmother and grandfather practiced it, and even my own mother was involved in a miniscule way. From what my grandparents and parents say, its not good.

I completley object to the orginization, whatever good they may do in the community.

Good grief!

You actually believe this nonsense? Or do you just expect us to be stupid enough to believe it?

speaking of 666, anyone know about the geometrics of glastonbury? for that matter, can anyone verify this "616" thing?

Hey, Ashley-Star-Whatever, You're saying that I don't understand the Masons!?!? I wouldn't have made that post if I didn't know a great deal about them! If you refuse to see beyond what the Masons claim to be, that's your problem

It's in the original texts of the New Testament. The number of Emperor Nero.

That is a true story, you can believe it or not if you want. I don't spread lies. I reveal suppressed information. I have heard many similar stories from different missionaries, not involving freemasons. This just happened to involve Freemasons. You are probably not in the company of people who are involved in this type of stuff, which is why it sounds like a lie. Imagine if you talked a bushman in Africa and told him about skyscrapers, airplanes and televisions. You didn't have any pictures for proof, and only your word. He would tell you you are crazy, because he had never seen anything of the sort in the remote desert of Africa. Common sense would tell him you are delusional, but in fact he's just ignorant. Expand your mind, you don't know it all yet. I don't either of course. Instead of dismissing somthing because you brain can't comprehend it, try to see if you can find other instances of similar experiances. You can use google right?

You sure it was your cousins friends dad?

Maybe your friends dads cousin?

How about your dads friends cousin?

This is now {since you are telling us} 4th hand information. It doesn't even qualify as hearsay evidence. Nothing but unsubstantiated rumors of BS.

Know why it is so hard to disprove this kind of garbage? Because the target organization can never prove a negative.

People like you say "Masons sacrifice infants"

Masons say: thats not true, look through our buildings, dig up our grounds. There are no infant bodies here"

People like you say: "See? there is our proof!"

arguing the point against conspiracy freaks is like pounding sand: useless.

I have met my cousins friend when I went up to visit him in college. They are roomates at a religious college. These people are very good people. They don't use swear words, don't watch porn, don't commit crimes, or anything that would make you think they were not trustworthy. Of course there is no way to prove it, I was just passing it on to others who might find it interesting.

I never said anything about killing babies. Have you ever read quotes from masons saying the lower degrees are told lies and the truth is not revealed until you get further up the degrees. Most of masons on the lower degrees are oblivious to what the higher degrees. By the way, what kink of fool admits to a crime they could be prosecuted with. Freemasonry is the occult, as in you are given more and more knowledge as you climb the pyramid. It's a pyramid scam.

I used the babies as an analogy.

I could very well have said "drunken naked orgies'
or 'alien spacecraft housed in the Masons main lodge', or any other ludicrous claim made by uninformed outsiders against any organization.

I really don't care if your friends uncles barber's cousin-in-law is an ordained priest, it is still rumor. And, just for the record, your description of your source lends even less credence to their claims.


Moderators: If this line of debate is to continue, I suggest this thread be moved to the conspiracy and paranoia , excuse me, secret societies section.

OK, then just out of curiosity, who do you believe? Your parents, your government, your mass media, your president, your best friend? Or does it have to make sense just to you for you to believe it. If that's the case, how do you know you have the background knowledge to know when you see lies or you see truth. I guess it's up to you. You must be one of those who only believe it when you see it. If that's the case I could be the same way, anything you see, and tell me, I will not believe it untill I see it myself.

I have dealt with many atheists on different forums, and most seem to believe the government controlled press and text books, over any independent investigation. I'm not saying you apply to this, just somthing I've noticed. They are very skeptical of the supernatural, but blindly follow the government controlled education and politicians.
Not everything is as it seems. How do you know when you have been deiceved.

Go to this link for a very cool optical illusion.

http://www.patmedia.net/marklevinson/cool/cool_illusion.html

Just so everyone knows, Freemasons don't allow the poor ignorant atheists in to the club. Are any of the kings and queens atheists? Anyone know, most are Masons, who believe in somthing, even if it's the devil. It's better to keep the masses ignorant, so they love there servitude, and look to the state to solve there problems not a god. Think about it.

ya ever hear the phrase "sometimes a cigar IS just a cigar"? It was coined in reference to Freuds cosntant comparison of everything to sex.

I never claimed to know the truth behind everything, but you conspiracy people see threats everywhere.

You have no proof, and your friends statements are unacceptable. Why? because they have nothing to back them up. And, the only way you could have the proof of your fantastic claims, is if the highest degree in Freemasonry came out and said "yea or nay". But the ONLY answer you and your ilk would accept is "YEA".

You and the rest of the 'spiracy crew talk about others being blind, but you folks are sooo enamored of your claims, you are the one who cannot see the trees for the forest.


Again, I ask the moderators to move this to the approprite section, along with all the other unsubstantiated allegations.

Well, to keep this civil, I guess we agree to disagree. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly. Remember that.

If the judge is a mason, and you flash the secret hand signal for mason in distress, the judge will let you off, even if you are guilty. Not all the time of course, but you protect your brothers, not the uninitiated. Same thing in my fraternaty, I lied to protect my brothers, even if they were guilty. That may look dishonest, but that is what brotherhoods are about. Secret dealings and agreements. bros before hos.

or 'ass before class'

so you will judge all organizations by the actions of you and your dishonorable mates? Loyalty to a comrade is admirable, but if that comrade has committed a crime, the law should come first. If one of your 'bros' murdered someone, would you lie and provide them an alibi? I take it from your earlier comments about atheists that you are a believer of some type? They teach you to lie?

You have just admitted that you have lied before to serve the needs of yourself and your friends. What makes you reliable now?

As far as I am concerned, all your information, on any subject, is tainted by your admission of past lying.


Oh, and as to agreeing to disqagree? forget it. you are a self admitted liar, your ludicrous story here is tripe.

You are honestly that naive that you think most people have not lied to protect there own? Why would you believe any politician then. If you are that naive then I will not believe anything you say, because you are obviously a victim of someones lies, as you assumed they told you the truth. If I told you I had never lied and you believed me, that would make me look more credible, but you would be incredibly gullable. maybe you should join the Masons, or a fraternaty. You could see for yourself, because that's obviously what you need to do. You must be poor, because you don't know how the wealthy make money. Deception = money. My great uncle owned Standard oil, along with Rockefellor. My family is incredilby wealthy, but I'm far enough out of the bloodline that I don't get the money.

You have what I call the gullable grandma syndrom. Just like my grandma who thinks I'm an angel, and if you told her I did somthing bad, she would say, no he didn't, he would never do anything like that. Oh no, the government or the Freemasons would never lie. Ha Ha Ha.

This thread has become a pretty weak ground for bickering, but I must say I find this post telling. I don't believe there's an easy and truly verifiable answer to the bigger masonic issues (they are a secret society after all), but I don't think there's much of a question as to whether or not there are benefits including the possibility of evading the law. This is the reason people will put the masons symbol on the back of their cars, avoids speeding tickets. Similiar concept to sporting police related things (forget what they're called), except it's tied into a secret society rather than government agency. You're beginning to sound closed minded JMPD1....

tokoyo, I have never said that there absolutely no benefits to being in an organization. Hell, some people on this thread were upset because masons (gasp!) assist fellow masons. Oh the horror!

What I object to is baseless allegations, based on rumor, hearsay, and fear.

but you all go on believing every conspiracy that comes down the road. Evidence or no, whether presented by paranoid idiots, or self confessed liars.

ROFL.. That is some of the best stuff I have heard. First of all, you saying him lying in the past, makes all his information in the present tainted. Well, i am 100% positive that you have lied in your life, and therefore your information is tainted. But not only did you lie in the past, you are lying now, about lying in the past, So that makes you a career liar, as opposed to a fraternal liar. Your lies are for everyone, while His lies are just for Fraternity Brothers.

And on another note, My father is a 32nd degree mason. And when he became a 32 degree mason, alot of things changed, and he quit going to his lodge meetings. Hell maybe he made it to the rank he desired, and obtained the information that he was seeking.
I can tell you with confidence that the're are secrets in the lodge, and not even I will learn these secrets. I have read somewhere, that it is said, to reveal these secrets is to wish for instant death. Not sure if those are the exact words, those are just what servers my memory.

As far as secret rituals: Yes there are secret rituals, and they do have something to do with Solomon. No I do not know what, Because I wont betray my father again and go into his books. I remember the books are written in code, and the rituals make mention of both Solomon, and the Holy Grail (Could be Ark of Covenant), and have very detailed drawings on formations to be done during rituals, as well as the actual artifacts used in the rituals.

And there are sacrifices being made every day by these freemasons. They sacrifice their free time with their families, to help others in a community, that might need assistanc.

If any Mason reads this, and feels I am violating any kind of code that the Masons have, please contact me and I will remove this post promptly. I feel my information can be useful to some in an educational purpose, while useless to those seeking conspiracy theories.

ya know, you might be right.

But I really don't give a damn anymore.

I'm tired of the freaks and geeks.

I'm tired of defending myself against idiots.

I'm tired of it all.

So go on, belief the wild, baseless accusations of nitwits.

have a good life, and good journey.

How can I join.

Two quick comments:

My Masonic emblem on the back of my car has NOT gotten me out of two speeding tickets... and both were issued by officers that were fellow Freemasons. They both handed me the tickets and invited me to visit their home Lodges... one invite of which I did accept.

Second comment - I am involved in Federal Regulatory and Law Enforcement. I was involved in a major inspection of a commercial facility and found so many discrepancies that I shut down their entire operation (it is a car import business). The facility manager identified himself as a Freemason in distress and asked for clemency, playing upon my membership to get him out of his legal obligations.

I asked him the name of his Lodge, he answered, and I walked out. The next stated meeting at his Lodge, I reported his conduct, and he has since been dropped from membership for Unmasonic Conduct.

You folks put too much "faith" in stuff you don't understand, and then construct boogie-men to match your fantasies from there on out.

Masonic code of conduct requires that all be treated as equals - NOT to get special treatment for being a member, and ESPECIALLY to not request special treatment. We are charged with helping others "to the length of our cable-tow," which means as far as we are able to help without putting ourselves in hard straits.

I hope this info helps.

(EDITED TO ADD:) BishopRyan, you just took your first step. Find the nearest Freemason and repeat your post to him. If you don't know any, find the nearest Lodge, and drop a letter in the mail-slot with contact info and requesting info on joining.