Hey I was just wondering what ppl here thought of wicca and witchcraft. Anyone else as interested as I am in casting spells?

Yall cast spells?

I have a friend who is Wiccan and I didn't know yall did that.

Are you sure?

You'll find that there are a few wiccans and pagans here.

Though no.. I'm not wiccan or a witch... I am pagan. No.. I don't cast spells... never suited me much. But there are some here that have casted.. and probaly give you better advice about how to do such.


Darkwind and Kismit comes to mind.

And yes 101... wiccans cast spells. Some maynot for whatever reason or another... but the majority of wiccans I knew/know have. Darkwind is wiccan and he's stated *many* times that he and his coven cast spells.

Unfortunately when most people hear 'casting spells', especially those under the mental age of high school graduate, they think of making things hover in the air or shooting fire from wands or transforming your appearance, etc etc.
As my understanding, in reality a spell is not something that will result in enormous physical evidence. It's more like subtly changing or nudging someting in a certain direction. Calming someones mood or shifting luck, for example, almost in the same sense as one prays for peace.
It'll take years and years of studying to even make the slightest difference to anything. It is a religion, not just fun and games for kids.

And i'll feel free to stand corrected by someone more authorised on the subject, since all i really have are a few eyars of misguided youth myself to go on.

Gee Burnside? When I was thinking casting spells I was thinking what Christians think? Not like that. I was unaware that spells are good. Only what we would call evil. Like a curse. Not nothing good. That is why I was afraid. Ignorance of only following Christianity has caused me to believe this way.

To begin with, Wicca is a religion, witchcraft is not. Wiccans believe in The Law of Three (*which is bs in my opinion).
Wiccans usually use white magick, aka "good magick". In this instance they aren't supposed to do love spells, which is a form of manipulation.
In my opinion, spells are overly elaborate when all you need is willpower.

I've always thought that if you believe in something long and hard enough it will come true. Do things work in similiar ways in casting spells? If so, then what's the point going through all the trouble casting a spell when you can just believe in what you want?

So forgive me again. I can't be hurt by someone who is Wiccan. They would not cast a spell on me. And would a person who is Christian be hurt by a love spell?

I will ask Darkwind a personal question or someone. I cannot say it out loud over the forums.

My point exactly. Supposedly if you have either total faith or total doubt, you'll get results. You'll get what yo want within reason, as long as you follow the "Law of Three". (*coughs) bs


Unless the "Wiccan" performs a black magick spell; but then they wouldn't be a Wiccan. The thing about love spells is that you are violating the "laws of nature". You are manipulating someone, and it will only backfire on you.

If you felt i was taking a jab at you, then i apologise. I was merely stating my opinion of the subject, it had nothing to do with what anyone else had posted, and especially nothing to do with Christianity.
But yes, a spell is definately more often good, it is medieval to believe otherwise. Wiccan and/or pagan people are people who are intune with nature and spirituality, they feel for all living things and use this as a blessing to help others.
Witchcraft, is a completely different thing, andf probably alot closer to what you have heard about spells.

Oh okay. That is good. Well why when a person is a wiccan. I can only say how my mom looked when she was one. She was not herself. She had these eyes that were very different looking. She had dressed different ( more sexual) and was reading all kinds of books on the Goddess. I also remember crystals. She had crystals on the mircrowave, table, and bed post. And she even looked up "sex with spirits" once on google. OMG. I was like because Mom is not really like that. But Mom is Christian again. She said that wicca religion was not her favorite. it did not supply the need that she got from God.

Feel free to ask me as well 101 X)

And no... wiccans arn't evil spell casting people. Infact the rule of three and the rede(sp..) "Do as you will at the harm of none" (which someone can correctly say that... right.. heh) Is there to reasure that wiccans do not harm. (BUT! THere are those high schoolers.. who I have ranted about before...) If you don't want one to cast a spell for/on/with you... simply say "No think you..." And they'll not do anything. *shrugs* It's like asking a Christian to polightly not pray for you should you not want it. (Though if they do later on.. is another issue)

Burnside I had said something about Casting spells and then you write "only people with the mental capacity of under a hs grad would be thinking badly" So I thought you were saying that to my post. I am sorry. But it was right after my post. Like my was the 2nd and yours the 4th.

Crystals and stones can give off different energies for different people and help with creating calm and a sense of closeness with nature, as far as i understand it. Certain stones when held in the palm of your hand actually vibrate, and wiccans/pagans surround themselves with these spiritual stones.
As for sex with spirits and demons well, i can't really comment because i've never heard of anything like that. Definately does sound more like witchcraft than spiritual harmony and love for living things.

Sorry 101, i can see how it sounded that way. I was actually refering to the first post only.

Witches dealing with devils and demons is another misconception. Witches were the female healers of ancient pagan tribes.


The sexual spell casting is called The Great Rite. Which.. can be done for real.. or symbolisticaly with the chalace (Female symbol...) and a anthem or sword (Male...) By simply dipping the tip of the sword into the chalice. And it's a beautiful thing to witness and be apart of to those because it celebrates the union of the Goddes and her Consort...

for a starter to help you guys the term "white magick" has been forgotten in modern wicca and witch craft (not sure about paganism) and for the sex with spirits, well it is done by summoning a "demon" (otherwise known as a spirit) called a sucubus or incubus (not sure how u spell it) depending on what sex u are and the bit where "no adult witch" does curses on people is wrong because there are some certain time when the person diserves the curse and gets it and the law of three and the wiccan creed or rede are just guide lines for begginers so that they dont curse everything that hurts them (because protection and binding spells are there for that)

Do you believe in the Law of Three, ancient witch?

So many gramatical errors....... Please form propper sentences, it doesn't hurt and it really goes a long way.

I think she was looking up astral sex, which really isn't sex at all. It is more like "merging with another spirit and loving them, and isn't about sexual desire.

I've spent a good deal of time among witches and "white magic" is by no means forgotten in the circles where I've walked. Sounds to me like you've been spending too much time with the chaos magician types, or those naughty crowleyites, AW. And judging from your ease with the cursin' you sound at least a little "grey" yourself.

"Just guide lines for begginers." Excuse me? Where I come from, the beginners are the ones throwing out the reed 'cause they still long for control, still envy and begrudge others their good fortune. A deeper reading of the reed tells us that on the level of our soul all is done by consent; at the level which magic works there is no "harm," only choice. In reality, your choice as a prospective malefactor is either to play into your "victim's" self-destructive pattern, reducing yourself to the level of a mere vampire, or mind your own business; minding your own business is much cleaner & clearer, and keeps your soul free from getting attached to someone you obviously don't like very much; why needlessly tie yourself to them? You think you can counter-hex your way out of the law of cause and effect, be my guest; let's see how that works for you in your next life.

Should you really tell her what to do, given that you misspelled proper?

sex whit spirits.....neee, thanks, i still prefer the more comon method....

Far as I know... no witch, witta, wiccan has sex with spirits...

Incubbi and Succubi are nothing more then wet dreams... not real

yes i do believe in the law of three but in a much more different way than most for i believe that it is not what you give out it is why you give it out here is an example:

you are being beaten up by someone but you know that others are as well then you should do the best in your power to protect them but if a spell you use to bring protection to you and them has faild then is there a reason for that to happen? i think so and this is why i believe you should cast curses(i answered both questions)

by the way HKCavalier these witchs you know could you ask them what degree they have got (1 or 2 or 3) because i have got a third degree (i am 13 years old but that is not going to change a thing because i have been learning it for 4 years and i have more knowledge of the craft of the wise/witchcraft than my friend who has been doing this for over 20 years) and this is the highest degree(spirtualy) that you can get and are your friends part of a older coven that passes on teachings

ohhh and the spirit thing you said it is a possiblity but i do not know why thay would say "sex"

and last but not least love spells are not breaking the "rules"(guide lines) if you do spells to open your heart or someone elses or even do spells to atract possible love mate then no but if you direct it on a single person

Hey there, AW. Thanks for being so open about your experiences. You're 13 and you've already been initiated? Are you sure? That really worries me. I don't mean this as a slight against you at all, but I sure wouldn't trust an elder that initiated a 13 year old child--either they don't know what they're doing, or they should be brought up on charges. Seriously, a true initiation, if it's the real deal, well it's on a par with having sex and almost dying and adults don't do that kinda thing with children. Not nowadays.

Your friend wasn't the one who took you through these degrees, was she? (She's a she, right? And you're a 13 year old girl? Please forgive me if I'm reading you wrong.) Do you really--I mean really believe that at the age of 13 you've achieved the highest level of spiritual development? That would mean that over the next 90 years or so you will learn nothing of spiritual significance--how boring is that? Does that make sense to you? I'm worrying about you; you still have some years as a child left, and you deserve them; 'cause when they've gone you'll miss them.

(Hey, if there are any other adults reading this thread, could you help me set Miss Witch straight on this stuff? She's mighty confused. She's posted here because she needs our help. She needs as much support as she can get amidst all the wild speculation and misinformation flying around here.)

I've known a lot of witches, AW, practiced witchcraft for a good 20 years as an adult. I've known white witches, black witches and grey. I've never met any innitiated wiccans who weren't white. Studied the history as best I can--there's not a lot of conventional history out there, not that you can trust. Have you studied any clairvoyant history, AW? How far back can you trace your incarnations?

One thing's for sure, I don't think you're involved with wicca. Wiccans don't generally go in for the "degree" system. Once you get yourself initiated, you're good to go. Wiccans don't have anything to do with demons--not intentionally at least. What you and your friend are into is at best some kind of Gardnerian hybrid. Gardner stole a whole lot of ceremonial garbage from the crowleyites and rosecrucians--a lot of us are pretty pissed off at him for that. Gardner had very little contact, if any, with genuine fam trads, so he padded his book with ceremonial filler.

Anyway, just be generous with yourself, AW. I promise you, there's a lot still to learn. For the good of all, by the free will of all: so mote it be!

But karma is all about balancing the universe. The Law of Three would make it unbalanced and lopsided. I think it's a fabrication to scaring people into doing the right thing.

But, it's not unbalancing. You harm someone... that harm will come back onto you, three times full. That is not unbalancing in the slightest.

It's better then saying.. "Do the right thing, or you're going to <incert bad afterlife place here since there's a few>"

Three times the harm you did is unbalancing. Think about it.

I have... and if you think about it... and actually read the right books on it, you'd understand what it means and what happens.

Yelekiah, I think the issue is resolved when we take into account the power of our non-conscious selves; the fact that so much of life proceeds without our conscious awareness. Real magic affects far more than just our specific intentions would demand of it; magic isn't like turning a switch on and off; its mechanism is infinitely complex. Real magic ripples out in all directions and that which we will consciously is simply one of the many consequences of our work. That's why it's so important to be on good terms with your subconscious, it's the only way to keep the same errors from overwhelming our intentions time and time again.

There are, moreover, certain concepts that exist fully both consciously and unconsciously. We call these concepts, for the most part, emotions. Emotions are of central concern when working magic. If your emotions aren't right, then your magic is gonna come out all skewed (as an aside, ceremonial magic was devised specifically to circumvent emotional integrity ). "Good" and "Evil" are also concepts that mean the same thing consciously and unconsciously. So when we do "good magic," it ripples out in all directions, through all the worlds, meaning a lot of extra unintended good emanates from the working and enough of it splashes right back on you that you'll notice. Likewise, when you inscribe ill will into the law, that ill will ripples out in all directions from the epicenter of your working and being so close to ground zero, as it were, you catch a good deal of it in in your own face. Whether the ratio is exactly three to one, is debatable.

As far as balance goes, magic disrupts balance locally, but not universally; contextually, not absolutely. When a witch solves some important problems using witchcraft, she just creates new, more interesting problems to be solved, doesn't she?

I've read many books and I wouldn't comment on here if I didn't. To have something equally wrong happen to you, as opposed to three times, is balance. I don't see how people cannot wrap their heads around this idea.


Locally-that's part of the universe.

no i am not a girl and the bit on the highest level of spirtualy there is no such thing (a third degree is done to show that you have a understanding of magick and are ready to practice completely on your own) and i am not mental

Ach, well, sorry, sir. Hard to read a person's sex over the internet.

So, Mr. Witch, I see you spell the word with a "k." What tradition are you following, anyway? And, I'm sorry, your post is still unclear to me; are there only 3 degrees in your school or are there more?

no more and what u mean by school

School as in "school of thought," same as tradition--some people generally refer to 'em as "mystery schools." You spell magic with a "k." Wiccans don't generally do that. Where'd you get that spelling, AW?

a book

do u want the name of the book

That'll do.

ok

Please avoid one word posts, they are rather messy.

Oh my, on second thoughts it might be better if you keep your posts brief, while you take a look around and do some reading.

Sex with demons...Sheesh as if it isn't hard enough to get respect for the Pagan side of life.

And black magik, is more like the casting of a spell on somebody who han't requested it, even love spells and healling spells could be counted as black.

Yelekiah, balance is more than just you get back what you give out and then some. It is all about 3, not two sides but three sides, like a coin.
Alot of the Pagan faiths have been placed together from older religions. For instance Dianna is Greek, animal motiffs are American Indian and Celtic and threes were important to the people of Britanny in old Europe. Europeans after all where the ones most persecuted for being Witches during the dark ages, so it is there older beliefs which make up the most part of that religion. And it actually takes three to achieve balance, two's are just opposites.

If you had something three times returned to you (whatever fashion in which it was given-keeping the coin in mind), it's still lopsided. If you had something returned that was equal to what you did, then it would be balanced. It's like scales.

Yel, I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Why so dogmatic about absolute and constant balance? That may very well be true on an absolute quantum level, but witchcraft is a science for people down here on the ground. The "rule of three" isn't physics, it's wisdom. Does absolute balance describe how magic works when you work it? I mentioned Xeno's paradox because, if everything you did was immediately and conclusively "balanced" on the spot, there really wouldn't be any point in working magic, would there?

I don't know you, it occurs to me that you may not have ever worked magic. I know there's a lot of folks who have read a great deal "about" magic, but "about" magic is really only as meaningful as "about" surfing. You need to do it to really know anything about it. 'Cause when I work magic the rule of three (or there abouts) definitely applies. When a spell works, it works in spades and I find myself unravelling its panoramic consequences sometimes for years afterward. It's crucially important to keep a spell journal (or if you prefer, "book of shadows") so that you can refer back to it over time and mark how your spells really work; 'cause if you don't, the spell's likely to work on your very own consciousness to the degree that you'll forget the spell entirely and think things just happened to go the way they went.

"Three," as Kismit says, is a symbolic number--to me, it means "and then some" or "in spades" or "like crazy" with the added umph of numerological goodness. Three is a number of creation, the divine family, it is the number of manifestation. Creation is unilateral, ex nihilo. Creation preceeds balance. There are a bazillion (that's right, a bazillion) totally natural forces that interact in nature creating localized imbalances which are eventually counter-balanced by other natural forces. Eventually. Magic is such a force. Here in three dimensions there is a crucial timelag in manifestation. Imbalances down here on the ground occur constantly, to the point where we humans fear the world will not survive (we're wrong about that, but Gaia has always had a soft spot for our big imaginations ). There would be no black magic without at least perceived imbalance and timelag; the whole black magical project hinges on the idea of outrunning karma.

Anyway, I'm rambling. And hope something here may be of use to you, Yelekiah.

It's not difficult for me to understand. I've read many books on the subject. If you read my posts, you can see that I disagree with it. I think it's a fabrication.
Not the balance I'm talking about. I'm talking about karma in accordance to revenge.
You're incorrect about me not knowing about magick actually. Thank you for patronizing me

No offense, but no, it wasn't. I'm simply disagreeing with it.

Yelekiah, please, it's hard enough corresponding over the internet without inferring insult that isn't there. It simply occurred to me that you might not practice witchcraft, so I said:
And then went into greater detail on the chance that you didn't know. I never stated that you didn't know about magic, I simply realized that I couldn't assume that you did. I did, however, make the statement that only knowing about magic from reading about it in books, was a poor substitute for practical experience. I don't mean that as an insult to such folk (which may or may not be you, I don't know), but a statement of fact based on my experience. As a practitioner of witchcraft the threefold law makes perfect sense to me because it's what happens. Since you doubted its validity, I wondered if you had ever done any workings. That's all. I realize that pissing contests and credential checks are a favorite pastime among witches, but really, Yelekiah, I wasn't going there. You started by asking questions about the threefold law, and I answered them to the best of my ability. What are you looking for, if not answers? (Again, that's a sincere question. I realize that such things don't seem to happen much on this forum, but I'm new. I still hold out hope that actual conversation can happen around here.)

This part really confuses me. What does that have to do with the threefold law? To my mind "revenge" is bad karma waiting to happen; nothing good ever comes out of that.

The reason why I don't like Wicca is because they advocate cause and effects. . . . the Law of Three, otherwise known as Karma.

Which, IMO, is BS. Leads to control, however. I believe that Wicca is so out of it as to prove themselves as a "goodly" religion in this Monotheistic Eon that they tried to adopt virtually all things "good" and "moral" and starts to condemn which they deem "bad" or "immoral."

Again, trying to publicize their beliefs.

As for nature worship, I see it as a personal thing rather than something guided by rules and regulations. Furthermore, as a Chaos Magickian I feel free to throw out the parts which will refrain me from achieving power -- FEAR of Karma, Law of Three, etc. . . . . . .

WHY do people choose to allow Karma and such to dictate their lives? I fail to understand that.

I fail to understand why ANYONE would let something else dictate their lives. I guess people just love being complacent and part of the herd, instead of making their own mark upon history.

The greatest sinners are the greatest saints.

It works that way because your mind is CONDITIONED to accept that as fact. I cursed my stepfather, and I believe it's still in process. . . . . and there have been no repercussions. In fact, things have gotten better.

You are the perfect archetype I am discussing. Encasing yourself in a SOLID, instead of transparent magickal paradigm, and UNABLE TO SHIFT according to needs and practicality.

The Law of Three impedes upon magickal practicality. It's sorta like Charles Dicken's A Christmas Story -- complete BS used to try to create "a sense of morality and guilt" within individuals.

Sorry, but I don't believe in guilt. I only follow the morals I choose to follow because I chose them, for no reasons than because I chose them.

There is no meaning, and there will never be any. Imposing strict boundaries is like drowning one's spiritual potential in a self-created, self-perpetrated delusional reality that you're unable, and unwilling to part with.

Good luck with your limited magickal training.

EDIT:

DOGMA, DOGMA, DOGMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LET THE DOGMATIC RUN RAMPANT ON THE EARTH, SO THE TRULY FREE MAY COME TO DOMINATE AND CONTROL THEM TO FURTHER THEIR OWN DESTINIES.

Infrazael, your story doesn't surprise me at all. I don't doubt it. I'm curious who you think "conditioned" my mind. I would agree that there's a whole lot written about wicca that is orthodoxy and twaddle, the spiritual equivalent of victoriana, but that stuff is numbing rather than conditioning. You may be absolutely right.

I have experienced magic as pretty much always having a significantly greater effect than I consciously expect. It's one of the lovely things about life, for me; it suggests that my conscious mind and my superconscious mind are well integrated; that my house is in order. So when I hear about a "threefold law" I say, "I know what they're talking about." But, good golly miss molly, it's far too complex and subtle to say that the threefold law is absolutely always gonna adhere (let alone adhere in an obvious and recognizable way) at all times; it is, however, something I've come to expect; something that other witches I have known have experienced as well; it you call that "conditioning" then sure, I'm conditioned according to your definition. But I'm open to other possibilities. Yelekiah's notion of absolute balance seems far more limiting than my understanding of the creative process, btw.

Beyond that, I like the threefold law. To me it speaks of the power of creation. It sure as hell doesn't make me frightened to do "bad" things. As I said before, to my mind, there is no "bad," only choice. We invite negatives into our lives for very important reasons, and we participate in the negative patterns of others for very respectable reasons. Wiccans put a very pleasant spin on the whole karma and reincarnation thing tho. Where the Hindus have their complex calculus of good and evil, costs and benefits, shoots and ladders, wiccans speak of choice and of learning; as wiccans we choose our karma not because we long for nirvana and hate earthly existence, but because we love earthy existence and want to experience the whole of what life has to offer.

The idea that dark and negative tends to lead to more dark and negative and that light and positive tends to lead to more light and positive is just the turnings of a road; a kind of spiritual gravitation. But as you know, we have all kinds of ways of going up, even tho gravity pulls us in the other direction. Gravity's a law, but it is not absolute. And we've all, from time to time had to take the dark road to get to the light. I thought Yelekiah was misunderstanding what the threefold law meant from a wiccan perspective, so I gave him the best info I had. If he wants to repudiate that, he's free to do so.


If you say so. What the rule of three boils down to for me is simply that there is no action without consequences. And this may be where you and I disagree. There are plenty of schools of magical thought that specialize in the avoidance of consequences, and that kind of magic hasn't worked out for me. I don't like it. I don't tend to like the folk who choose it.


I don't see guilt as a central issue in A Christmas Carol or in life for that matter. Scrooge was a bitter loveless man, who had a dream and realized that his values were effed up, so he changed. To me the story is about the power of choice and of healing. Where's the guilt?


Judging from the acrimony here, you may be pleased to know that I'm about done with this board entirely.

What benefit do you gain from talking this way to a total stranger in our first conversation--a conversation taking place over the internet, a place where misunderstandings are as common as grains of sand in the desert? I was thinking the slamming and flame wars on this forum were limited to the christian/atheism vector. Infrazael, what's your beef with me?


You know, maybe you and I would find reasons to dislike each other, Infrazael. If you're in earnest about this "dominate and control" piece, it that's one of the "magickal practicalities" you were talking about, then you and I have a serious disagreement. I still don't know you well enough for that to be anything but an "if."

No, I wasn't asking about the Law of Three, I was voicing my opinion. Sorry if it confused you. I have to agree with Infrazel. I've had experience with magick and the Law of Three does not apply. Why? Because the Universe is about balancing things out.
About revenge...you do something bad, three times the wrong will not happen. It's a fabrication into scaring people to do the right thing in my opinion. What will happen however, is apt to be something equally as bad, not three times as bad.

Yeah, okay. I have more than once been accused of being overly fond of the poetry of a thing. To the best of my knowledge wicca has always emphasized subjective emotional experience over hard edged absolutes. Real wicca tends to be very warm and generous and a deep consequence of that generosity is that we're very touchy feely, our perception is often a very emotional perception, which to a lot of people means it's just distorted.

Subjectively, the sensation of three times the return makes sense to me, it's how it feels to me. But ultimately, on the cosmic level, you're prolly right (maybe, something I can't quite put my finger on, keeps me on the fence with this one--I'll get back to you when I get something definite), I understand the principle of balance. There's something about magic tho, that feels like something other than balance.

Here's a thing: I have an idea of a continuum with "magician" on one end and "mystic" on the other. The continuum describes the nature of our contact with the Source, the One, Universal Consciousness. At the magician end we move our personal conscious will into the realm of the One Will and remake the world as we see fit; at the mystic end we let go of our personal desires and let the One Will teach us what and who we are. In my life I have found that I sometimes get stuck at one or the other end of the continuum, either becoming too arrogant and metaphysically "pushy" or at the other extreme becoming simply passive and complacent in the face of the world I see. It's a balancing I find useful to keep in mind.

Anyway, thanks for getting back to me.