I could never figure this out. Why do the religious claim that god is their guiding light and god leads them by the hand through life but yet they depend on this book too? The book is tainted with the interpretations of men and time, yet people cling to every word like their god wrote the words itself. Why doesn't this entity do what they claim and literally lead them through life without the manual.

I'm curious to see your answers

Well it isn't just read the BIble and you are automatically Christian if so then Mako would be Christian. But you should read, pray and fast to be closer to God. This is just what the church tells you before you even pick up a Bible. It is just how Christianity is.

But let us say that we did not have a book.....what would we do. We would do what we felt right was. If I was to live the way I chose to I would not be a Christian but a spiritual person. I would still pray. I would still help others and do good deeds. But even Pagans have books right? I mean I clean my friends house and he has books called "Grandmother Time" and others aboout the Goddess. It is just what people do. They write books for guides top their own journey and they try and help fellow believers.

But I kind of like a book with lessons that can help with everyday life. * shrugs*

I tried to use that book as a guide, I just ran face first into the wall.


Sorry just couldn't resist

Sometimes you have to look further than a book to avoid the walls!

The most spiritual peoples like the Aboriginal and North American Cultures did not have books, yet I am sure they had shamans to guide the people.

My personal opinion is that the original idea behind the bible and other spiritual books is to show experiences and share ideas about God.

Why the book?
Not everyone is lucky to have a direct understanding of God's guidance, so I suppose they need it in black and white.

Tried that too. Unfortunately it all fit like a burlap sack with a too small hole cut for my head and neck. I felt choked and couldn't breath, because around every corner someone had something to say about who I was, what I had to believe, even if I didn't want to, etc. etc.

sometimes it's hard to realize some people aren't made to turn to religion.

I am assuming that you are referring to the Christian Bible. Which is a compilation of human experience and history of mans walk with spirituality. As man was separated from direct contact with his creator after the fall of man in the Garden of Eden.
The Book is a manual of that journey as experienced by others so that we might learn from them and their God inspired writings.
Irish

So in other words it is always being rewritten.

A manual only needs to be rewritten if the technology changes but God is as He was and as He will remain, so there is no need.
Irish

My opinion, the Bible is more than a manual. The words within the Bible are literally God-breathed (it says that, it's true ). They may only be words, but they have the power of God behind them. When we read the Bible, God is talking to us.

I know people will disagree with me, and that's fine. I'm just showing you how it is from my perspective

Regards, PA

Curiousity i don't believe the writers of the bible were inspired by God, maybe control or power but "guiding light " The decision to follow the bible is a arbitrary decision based on personal preference and nothing more, the bible is his-story of what was intended, maybe not anticipated alot of the outcomes of the beleif structure but intended. namaste Sheri

Well, if the bible is the word of God, then isn't following the bible following God, so therefore it's still God guiding you?

I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. =P

Well, it seems odd to me that all these writers of the book agreed with not having sex before marriage if it is only a man inspired book. And that's just one thing that would seem odd.

Zero who told you the bible is the inspired word of god??? You teach what you have to learn, right or wrong is relative , hold on to your beleifs if they serve you but also allow for new understandings to be brought forth, Its difficult for those that like to have order and anything that doesn't fit into the picture they have is rejected, the key is to see that both have a place, By the very tension that right and wrong produce it is producing the results wanted, Of course do as you choose and you should regardless but also be open to new ideas, evolving is to add on to what you already know not throw away for the sake of the new, Its all in the perspective Zero. namaste Sheri

Its kinder like what old man Ripley said “Believe it or not”!

or maybe as PT Barnham said, "There's a Sucker born every minute".

Who told you it wasn't???

Or kind of like good ole' ZeroShadow "You can't even get a skeptic to beleive that there's M&Ms in a bag of M&Ms untill it's opened! Must be a tough life to have no trust in anything".



I dunno, that was random and just came to my head. XD

zero, Your thinking is in error, you don't get people to beleive things, You learn to trust by not having to, if you don't need or want anything from anyone , what would you need trust for??? When you know you are complete and perfect as you are there is nothing you need.
Its got alot to do with your perception, When you know that its all good no matter what, that no matter what shows up in your life is perfect for the situation at hand under these conditions trust is not required. No Zero I can tell you life is not tough quite the opposite. Namaste Sheri

I trust in God. =)





Just because your life isn't tough doens't make it otherwise for other people.

Zero its an error in thinking that "life is tough" without trusting in "God" Religion is only effective if one has needs that they feel they themselves can't meet, this is not the case with alot of NB's i'm sharing that with you and so have many others, its not to say you shouldn't have needs but one can outgrow the need for religion thats all, Its not an insult its a perspective its a possibility there is life without religion in my case its better, but i have met happy religous people also but usually they don't deal to much with the Dogma its taken with a grain of salt or not literal. but there are no fast hard rules for anything again its perspective. namaste Sheri

it has been said that most people are mere followers. Without a hand to guide them they would never get anywhere.

Now there are of course leaders. To lead effectively one needs a common ground for all to stand on (in political terms, a platform). The book, is the platform of the religious party, so that all that are under it have a common guide and reference.

That is what makes religion so long-lasting! Nothing like timeless entities at the head of the table to give the stability necessary for a long lifespan. If it was based on a man alone, it can easily splinter with his death.

All religion does is tap into the natural needs and fears of humans and perpetuate them with various claims including how the gods of the religion are one's protectors. It facilitates keeping people in an child-like mental state (or if you prefer a primative mental state). The great irony being that the religious that seek "enlightenment" will forever be denied it by the very belief structure they think will provide it.

People always say religion conrols by fear and I've yet to see any proof or studies on the subject and I've yet to meet a Christian who follows God just because he's afraid.



Everyone has a guide wether it be friends, family etc, we all learn from eachother and no one can make it alone.... In my opinion of course. =P

This how I see the Bible. It is a book written by men taken from camp fire stories. Some of it is from people who went out in the desert and fasted and contacted a spirit called a jin. Jins are spirits of the desert wind. They are tricksters and you must be careful of them. The like to start trouble and wars. That is the old testment. The new testment is about the Jews trying to over throw their Roman oppressers and an enlightened teach.
That is how I see it any way.

Wow, i can tell you have never read the bible.

Anywase it is not mortaly posable to follow the bilbe word for word. It is a set of ideals that all people should strive to follow. There is nothing that leeds to evil from the bible. Its evil people who use the bible to casue evil. Exp (Popes during the crusades)

You can tell... wrong. He has read the bible. And he's just giving his interpratation on it. Kind of like every other person and christian sect out there.

fear and needs, zero.

fear is not just in the form of "fear of the gods"=what they will do to you if you don't obey. humans fear uncertianty, and the unknown. gods are a calming force over such fears. people need shelter, and food. gods are a comforting story for how one will be taken care of. gods take the bite out of the "big bad world". the evidence of the fears of christians can be seen in how quickly they respond with the old "and you think it is all a series of random events" rhetoric. indeed, christians fear a great deal and rely on their delusions of a great father in the sky to protect them to overcome these fears.

Wonderfully stated!!!
Bravo!!!!!
Of course you know that being a non-believer also fits into this same category, and being a non-believer you will also forever be denied it also by the belief structure you also have faith in.
Once we harden our perceptions, we close ourselves off to further insight and knowledge.
I prefer to remain steadfast in my belief that you are all right, and I am wrong.
It was a great post though!

Blessings

and dearest tutle, what is it you think i have faith in? what is it you think i believe in?

I know I'm a little late, but God said "I am the word, I am the way". I suppose he meant that if one needed guidance, they had to follow his word, which is the Bible.

Hypey i think that was very well stated, You have to need something to be attracted to religon, They have to convimce you that you can't do it without em, Definitly prey on fears, Death is a big one, Being hand picked by god to inhabit a perfect earth a nice lure, that can be long term, how about jesus knowing you by nane at your death, oh and the devil not getting you or going to heaven thats a comforting construct. Yeah hyper, this is definitly the best sales scam going Namste Sheri


I just read your needs post very good point NEEDS wow that is a good one, I hadn't considered the comfort construct , I was not gettting how you could find comfort in the bible , i really was drawing a blank, but you shined a light i hadn't considered interesting.
From the needs standpoint my neighbor joined from loneliness and he wanted to take on the beleifs but he just couldn't In his case he couldn't wrap his self around the spirit prison idea they (mormons) told him his family is in spirit prison, of course there will be those that mock this idea but the abrahamic trio each have there own twist on things, the point being there are a few ways religion lassos its prey. namaste Sheri

What's the question again? v.s. And what is the point of the question?



Well, if people have to be called on by "God" to be saved. Would that be when "God" steps in and says follow me? Or would he be there from the very beginning planting seed to help you find your way? I think the Christians believe that "God" points them in the direction they are supposed to go through out their whole lives. They can either choose to do things the right way or the wrong way. I think Christians read the Bible to remind them of why they have chosen the path that they have. I am not a Christian, but I don't feel I have to hate them just because they have different beliefs than me. I do think Christians choose to believe what they believe out of fear. The fear out of going to Hell. But Christians also use that fear in a good way. Let just say, you are about to meet your idol. Would you not be a little afraid or nervous of what your idol might think of you? Would you try and do things that your idol would approve of? You wouldn't want to be rejected, would you? I think that the true Christian thinks in this manner. "Is what I'm doing at this moment acceptable in 'God's' eyes?" If they feel like "God" is constantly watching them then they are less likely to screw up and make the wrong decision. Please stop fighting over this subject. If you are a Christian then shouldn't you know that "God" will do what he will? You can't save any one, only "God" can. You don't have to judge Non-Christians just because they think differently. I know that you are afraid of losing your friends to "Hell," and that is why you are trying to get the word out. But, only "God" will decide whether they are worthy or not. The same applies to us Atheists. The only way a person is going to change is if they feel they need to. I think when Atheist are arguing with people of religion, they are trying to show them that they are missing out on the fruits of life. But, what does it matter if that person lives their life without participating in what you call a good time? If they die and nothing happens then what does any of this matter? At least they are happy doing what they are doing. If we continue to fight, then we are just wasting precious time. Any of our lives could end at any moment. I understand the need for debates. But, debates probably are not going to change peoples minds on a given topic, facts are. Please try and understand both sides of the story.

Touche. Too bad Sheri didn't answer.

Just a question on leaders and followers, Hyper?

Is it your belief then that the term "Christian Leader" is an oxy-moron? Or am I misunderstanding your post.

Regards, PA

I have read the Bible and was even a Christian in my foolish youth. I also study history and mythology. I look at the Bible from a different perspective. I am an outsider, I don't read any meaning into other than what is there. I also consider the time in which it was written and the changes that it has under gone in the past say 1500 years. I also look at writings predated the Bible. This kind of study is part of my religion. I study all religions (When I have time.)
I you want to live up to "Deeper_Understanding" you need to study history, myth, physics and science. And use spell check.

All I can say is:

people write religious books knowing they will die, to leave a legacy. why does this rate a thread?

Let me take a stab.
Having viewed your posts religiously (sorry, couldn't resist ) you appear to base your assumptions backed by science.
You have faith in yourself and your discernment.
My comment, dearest hypie, on belief is that we ALL believe.
Some believe in a higher being, some believe in science, some don't believe, some believe in godhead energy and some believe in Santa Claus.
They are all belief systems.
I am not stating that your belief system is wrong, nor right, it is just yours.

Ok then, what is mine?

ok turtle, i think you think that life is not what it seems to be in the least. you think that life is something of an energy that transcends matter. You consider the NDE to be a gateway to something, a glimpse of this reality (that we are presently shielded from).

now as for me: i believe in probability, and put faith in nothing (but think about that carefully before concluding the simplistic).

I fully agree with this comment and do not think it simplistic at all.
In fact you and I can agree on this point, and trust me I know what you mean and agree that your comment is anything but simplistic.
One note though, a "religion' that closely resembles anything close to my experience is Tibetian shamanism, and to a certain degree, Native American spirituality due mainly to the connection they hold with all living creatures.

JFS Phew, I did read it all. we also need to see the illusions as illusions you are encouraging denial, denial of the obvious, also, you may not know that you don't need to hate anothers choices to leave them behind, but you don't need to hate or hate is the only possible alternative to not choosing the same as someone else and sharing why. One doesn't say this book is true , one says this book is true for me. You are pimping a theology which is very adept at division and very immature at solving conflict or disagreement, and quite frankly a very poor value system for the most part. (very poor at creating peace of any kind) It probably isn't gonna lead us down the road of peace, it hasn't so far and its had ample time, so basically you shared with us what you have come to understand the way it works for you. the only hatred there is: is in the minds of the christians that see it. Namaste Sheri

PA No one needed to tell me the bible is mans word it speaks by example Religion tells you who it is by its behavior, I was 7 years old when i grew to that awareness, i thought everyone knew it wasn't true, only storys, it was so obvious, imagine my surprise when i found out otherwise.. namaste Sheri

^- Do you need a hug? In simple terms, my point is... seek your own truth and shut the f**k up. Lead by example. If someone has any doubt in what they believe they will seek the truth. If they ask you what you believe, then fine, teach the ways of your suffering. Obviously, you aren't happy, or you wouldn't worry about such things. Remember, I am not religious. I'm not taking sides. I could go on a I hate every "God" there is, rampage. But what good is that going to do me? If you really feel there is no God, then just let it go and live. Live in peace with your beliefs.

Jfs maybe you are in the wrong forum this is the skeptical side, there is a gentler side spirituality and beleifs, the rest of your astute insight is seriously in error , It sounds as if you are having a bad day and might need a hug, Namste Sheri

I question your intentions. Why are you trying to prove there isn't a "God" to people that are not going to listen to you any way? Are you still trying to convince yourself there isn't a "God?" Why does any of this even bother you? Do you have a grudge against this "God" of yours? I think you do believe in "God." I think you are very much afraid. Prove me wrong. Prove that I am in error. Do you feel empty inside? The emptiness you feel inside doesn't have to be there. You don't have to believe in "God," anymore. Just let it go. If you are interested in a new God. I'm always available. Bow down, you have very much to learn in my ways. If I let you kiss my feet, consider it the greatest honor you have will ever receive, child. If you are in love with "darkness," then that is all I shall ever allow you to have. God has spoken.

JFS Is this the sales pitch that ensnared you???? Namaste Sheri

That's what I thought you'd answer. You know what Sheri? Our (at least my) answer is the same To me, the Bible is God's word, and it speaks by example. But I am not surprised that people do not want to believe it. It's a difficult thing to look at yourself and admit the truth. We like the masks we wear, and are afraid of what lies underneath.

Regards, PA

Pa it seems we are getting to know each other, Pa I know you feel the bible is gods word and speaks to you, I say what ever brings you comfort, Its not a problem to me that society would want to define godly standards and build societys around that, i find the ideas of what is godly incomplete and void of any reason, People that are responsible enlightened beings don't get directions they give directions, they don't wait for someone to tell them what to do they decide for themselves. Namaste Sheri

Who are you to give directions? How can "you,"Sherri Berri, give any "directions," if "you" yourself are constantly running into a brick wall? If a "responisible enlightened being" doesn't follow any directions, why in the "Hell" are you trying to give them anyway? Do you understand my point? What you have just said is contradicting your overall point. All I'm trying to say is, don't f**king worry about it. You, yourself just said, don't follow, lead. Why should anybody follow your lead? If everybody thought the same as you, we would all be crying in a dark corner, some where. I've been through this phase you are going through. Believe me when I say, "it is better to let go of the fight and live your life to the fullest, than to continue to fight and never win." Don't stop seeking the truth, that is all I have to say. Don't even bother posting a response, because I'm wasting my time trying to teach a lesson to a person who doesn't even want to learn. Just lay down in your grave, little girl and waste away.

JFS Whatever is bothering you I hope it works out for the best , Really JFS All the best to you Namaste Sheri