Want to know others opinions on whether they think jesus rose from the dead. its one of lifes great debates (for some any way!) i think he did. but would like others to theorise.

if he did not rise where is his body? are the bones of jesus christ lying on earth as we speak?
me thinks its interesting.

I believe that when he died on the cross, he duked it out with the devil in hell, then came back to his body then went up to heaven.
So does that mean there are three human bodies in heaven, Jesus, Enoch, and Elijah?

it is possible when he returned after death, that he would have placed his physical body in a more safe place, than where it was, far far from the roman empire, if that meant ascending to the heavens, then that is what he did, he went into space, or something.
idk, just thinking outloud.

there are legends that claim christ's body was taken by his disciples to europe. One legend suggests that mary magdelene took the body, blood and son of christ to france where a cult was founded that became the Merovingeans ,then the cathars until finally the catholics wiped them out.
Another legend suggests that christ's body was taken to rome after his death where the christian cult was founded and eventually wiped out roman paganism.

I believe yes, three human bodies in heaven, untill the last ressurection maybe. (also mary was assumed into heaven in bodily form according to catholic tradition but this fact is not mentioned any where in the bible)

i have heard those as well, i also heard that they thought they had found Jesus or someone like him in Japan, though at last check they believe it to be someone else.
any one else heard of this?

If the disciples took the body then why did they give their lives for something they knew was a lie. I have heard it explained thus;
a man may give his life for someting he believes is true, but never for something he knows is false!?

Every heard of a thing called LIFE?! We believe in so many falsehoods that we think are truth--we're all condemned! Some times believing in a lie is a more appealing way to get through life than believing in a cold, hard fact. Ignorance is truly bliss if it gets you through the hardships of a creul reality.

People supposedly seen Jesus after he had died. Weither I believe that or not is a debate i've had with myself for years, so I can't give you a straight answer on that.

I personally believe Jesus did rise again from the dead and is now sitting in heaven right now.

Of course, I have nothing to prove this, nor backup my statement. It's just my belief. Pure and simple

Regards, PA

I am a fan.. I think he rose..........

yes he is there in heaven, his body did appear before the apostles locked away in a room did it not? the apostles were able to experience his wounds, and that would mean that his flesh was real. he then left them. so it is reasonable to assume that he was able to be both body and spirit at the same time, hence being in at least two places at once. but then again, we are talking about God, and he can do anything. and i agree that people would not commit their whole lives to a false cause and to die for it, unless it be for pride. would any of you, when threatened with death, renounce your country if you could live? please share your thoughts.........

peter

John Conner from the Terminator series? I like to think JC rises against the machines, later on in the story, even thought they say he dies in T3. J/k I like to believe in the Merovingians theory, personally. Did you ever hear about the man who found some secret documents in a Catholic Church? I can't remember the details. Well, upon discovering these documents, he was given large sums of money from the Catholic Church to keep quiet about the whole thing. The man used this money to renovate the Church where he found the documents. There was a painting on the wall that depicted Jesus being put into his tomb during the day, the man changed the picture to make it seem as if Jesus was being "taken out" of his tomb at night. The man became a member of an occult group. There are some other details I am leaving out. I hope some one can help me add names and other important details about this event. I'm very tired. Maybe I will be able to remember later, today.

yes, Jesus over came death.
now this sort of topic should be in spiritual forum not here... and its kinda getting common.

Thats a bit of an exact statement even for a religious person such as yourself, dont you think?

Even if I was religious I think I would have trepedations about that statement, and what you are saying in general regarding this particular topic.

well givin the nature of the topic im sure there are all kinds of stories out there that are false and sensational. this would have not equalled a pay off. he would have been killed. so the story has to be false, besides why would he then renovate the church? it would have no meaning. it sounds almost gnostic in source.

peter

make sense please. not reading you... over......

He would renovate the church to give the members of the church something to think about, especially since he was sworn to secrecy. He couldn't just come out and just say "Hey, there is a big fraud going on over here!" Actions speak louder than words anyway. Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking your beliefs. I'm just trying to state some facts for the interested. I don't even have all of the facts together yet. So what is you're problem? When I get the facts together, please feel free to b**** all you want. But until then pray to your God, that I don't find the facts I'm looking for. I advise you to stop making fun of people such as Welsh Shaun, you are showing your true colors. I'll let you think about that.

Here are some interesting links for you truth seekers. Please, keep an open mind or you will never learn. This is probably my last post on this topic, mainly because I hate arguing with hard headed people.

Catholicism's Shocking Attitude Towards the Bible!

Catholic Chuch no longer swears by truth of the Bible.

The Official Graham Handcock Page

I am having a hard time finding what I was talking about earlier, mainly because I can't remember any of the names, lol. If I find anything more on that topic, I will be sure to post.

pbarosso, please promise me you won't blow yourself or anyone else up in anger

Offtopic:

LOL @ JC aka Jesus Christ

Gizzel-D: Yo, wutup JC.. wuts the 411 on planet IzEarrrrth?
JC: They be poppin' off at the mouf wit some ig'norant shiznit
Gizzel-D: I b smite they azz if they talk dat smack
JC: Yo chill Gizzel-D, i b comin' back res-erect and i bust a flow for my ppls fo' sho
Gizzel-D: nah man, calm yo azz down, smoke a blunt wit yo babie's daddie
JC: aight

It's rumour only as far as I know. It might have some factual basis, but think about it. Secret dealings. Unknown documents. Clandestine meetings. Money changing hands.

If it happened, you'd think it'd be something people would want kept secret, not something everyone with a google search could find.

Just a thought.

Regards, PA

Jesus started a kinda common religion, and its kinda common for people to want to discuss the really fundamental issues that underpin it!
But yes maybe it is in the wrong forum, but you dont have to enter, u can ignore the mistake is it such a big deal?

This may be true but why would the disciples make up such a falsehood and attempt to decieve the whole world with it. Would it be comforting to them to insist on preaching an illegal doctirne and be flogged, imprisoned, starved and killed for it. Not many peoples idea of comforting. Also the actual message they brought was by no means comforting, why create a judging God, who lets no one away with even one single minor transgression. Why record their own failures, and doubts, towards jesus? To retell these is not comforting. Also how to explain the miricles they performed after messiah transended into heaven. Finally individual ressurection was just an unknown and culturally alien phenomenon that it is hard to see how the disciples could have even thought of it. When jesus was talking about rising again, they all automatically assumed that this would be at the last day, when all bodies will rise again, when jesus raised lazarus from the dead, he told his sister that he will rise again, and she automatically said that see knew this would happen at the final day. So remote from the jewish physce.

By the way lazarus was only ressucitated, as was the little girl etc whom jesus raised from the dead. The second they came back to life they started to die again.

Ressurection on the other hand is an entirely different doctrine and concept. It asserts that the body physically rises never to die again, an eternal salvation from the consequences of sin,-death.

One more thing, exactly why do you not think that a debate about the resurection of jesus does not belong in the alternative history forum? Surely if he did not rise there must be in existence some alternative history of the account recorded in the gospels?
Just making my point!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is reincarnated as Kanye West.

I agree with you DK, the problem is that if they post it there, the resident skeptics will cut them to pieces in mere seconds, so they try to play it safe and post in places the thread doesn't really belong. Notify the mods and they will move it.

He even admitted to being "just a man".


That is what is called a "three fer"!

Pa how does it serve you believing this, You sound as if you are saying I'll beleive anything just to believe it, if beleifs are to become our behavior our actions shouldn't we put some thought into them would be my question???Namaste sheri

I think he was in a coma

if you want to read the full story of berenger Saunier and Rennes-le-chateau and the templar connection read, "holy blood and the holy grail' by Baigent,Leigh and Lincoln.
Published by Corgi. ISBN: 0.552.12138X.

The Da Vinci code tells a similar story but as a fictional novel.

Simple answer to that - Money, Power and did I mention MONEY? The same reason that cult leaders today create cults. Cults have been around for a long long long time and people have been making fools of other people, controlling them and gouging them for money for a long long long time.

The thing about Faith Sheri, is that if you don't have it you can't explain it, and if you do have it, you don't need to.

I know, I'm dodging the question. But it's the only answer you're going to get. I have put thought into it, but when it comes down to it, i believe the resurrection story, and that's not something that's going to change.

Why do you have a problem with me believing this?

Regards, PA

Hmmm, except taht the early Christian leaders did not have money or power, and most were martyred for their belief. You know, all they had to do was to recant their belief and they would have saved their lives.

A conman does not die for his lies.

Think about it.

Regards, PA

as I read the n.t., there were only 13 people that "saw" him, after his "resurrection". The authors of the n.t, writing at the council of constantinople, on behalf of emperor theodosius, should have covered this loophole and had him personally lead the church for a while. the original xians, the "nazarenes", were all gone by then and wouldn't have interfered.

GM - only the gospels record 13 people. Corinthians (if I recall) mentions 500 people at a time.

don't you think the romas authorities would have noticed an event like this? or the earthquake, the eclipse, the rending of the veil? the dead people marching on jerusalem?something?

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

errrrrr... are you talking to me? ADVISE ME ALL YOU WANT. who is making fun of anyone?well, get your facts or what ever you call them. i doubt readers will find them as such. you better not pull them off some conspiracy theory website, as people will not consider the info as valid.

and besides, he was sworn to secrecy wasnt he? this sounds all too familiar. go on have another drink, and anther , and another.......etc etc...

right on the money, errrrr, well i guess money PA

I point you to Acts 2:44-45 and Acts 5:1-11. In these verses you will see that the early church lived in communes, pooled their money and if they didn't, they would be "killed by God" (if this is true, why did they secrete the bodies away without proper Jewish - they were all still Jews then) burial rites, but that is another story, one that Mako posted before. Who would control this money and these people? The cult leaders (that's all Christianity was at that time) naturally, so as I said Money and Power and did I mention Money? It doesn't have to be a lot of money or a lot of power at first, that is why you evangelize, to get more members, more money and more power and on and on and on! - TA

And I point you these passages. I think there's another passage that Paul speaks of where he specifically mentions working as a tent maker, but I cannot recall it right now. Nonetheless, these should suffice





Paul says he is living in poverty! He is not getting anything out of this. If I could find that other passage for you, it would show that Paul was actually working to pay his way, unlike some of the other "super apostles" who were profiting from the gospel

Just a thought.

Regards, PA

Since the first part of Acts is describing the "Jerusalem Church" (the original church) and Paul was not a member of that church, but instead created his own (which merged with the remenants of Jerusalem church after the destruction of Jerusalem). Maybe Paul only worked as a tent-maker when he had no pidgeons to fleece and as far as being poor, what con-man is going to admit to having money...as my ol' gramps usta say, "He would "Poor-Mouth" til the cows came home", meaning he would tell how poor he was to get more and bigger donations! Acts basically says it as it was! - TA

Hmmm, this makes no sense......

You are saying Paul is trying to con them into giving him more money by appealing to his poverty - even though they know he does not use the money for himself. Come on!

What it seems you are doing is picking and choosing the parts of the Bible you want to accept as truth, and those you want to accept as false. Why accept the words of Acts at face value, but question Corinthians? Except that perhaps it does not fit in with your idea of the Bible.

True, Paul at the time was not a member of the original church (he was vehemently against it if you recall). But he did join it. He did not start a new one, but joined up with those of the original church. He did not create a new one.

Think about it.

Regards, PA

How do we or they know that the didn't use the money for himself, we only have his word.


Since I don't accept any truth in the entire bible, I pick and choose those that show the contradictory messages given out by the myriad of authors. Really, the editor should have been fired! - TA

If you accept what it says at face value, it is not contradictory. You are reading meaning into it to make it contradictory - and it is said the believers are the one's who interpret the Bible to suit them . Yes, we only have their word that they are not misusing it, yet as it stands, in this day and age, all we have is their word. If you can show proof that they did misuse it, perhaps you have an argument.

He does if he was caught back then.

Think about that!

Tell that to David Koresh, Marshall Applewhite, Jim Jones et al.

amen

You obviously have not read the bible. There is a little book called revaletion right at the back where god explains to us just what he is going to do with evil; evil people and evil spirits, and the devil. Also through out the gospels jesus promises that evil will be defeated.
Why not already I HEAR YOU SCREAM? Again if you read the bible you will find that God is a loving God not wanting anyone to perish, (even the evil people) so we are now in a period of 'grace' where god is giving the inhabitants of earth the chance and time to repent before he judges the earth.

I CAN SEE FROM YOURE QUOTE ABOVE THAT YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT EVIL,
DO NOT WORRY,
NO EVIL ACT THAT YOU, I OR ANYONE FOR THAT MATTER HAS GONE UNNOTICED,
AND IM SURE YOURE GLAD TO HEAR, JUSTICE WILL BE DONE, THATS THE BEAUTY OF GOD!!!
GOD IS BOTH WILLING AND ABLE, AS SHALL BE SEEN.