http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/interna...GGGNfranceriots

November 13, 2005
On Point
Muslims on Riots in France
By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Many of those taking part in the riots in France are young Muslims. Their actions, and the condition of Muslim communities in France generally, were the subject of much discussion in the Arab and Muslim worlds, where opinion seemed mostly, but not entirely, sympathetic to the rioters.


A selection of opinions from the Muslim world about the rioting in France. All translations and interpolations are from Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri).


From "The Revolution of the Rabble" an article in the London Arabic daily Al Sharq al Awsat, by Abd al-Rahman al-Rashed, a director for Al Arabiyya television.


"Perhaps they are thieves, rabble, and anarchists, but they have a [just] cause, and there is no choice but to listen to it and deal with it ... This is a protest against the bad situation from which a large group of people thinks it suffers.


It doesn't matter whether the [French interior] minister calls them names like 'scum' and 'rabble.' These insults and curses will not solve the crisis that will recur in the future, even if it calms down for some time. …


The country of law and liberties [i.e., France] has failed in its handling of the old problem that was bequeathed to it since the end of colonialism - [to improve] the lot of the immigrants and overcome its implications. … It is inconceivable that in the French state of freedom and democracy, no one from within this large minority has reached Parliament - which is supposed to represent all levels of the population, its rabble and its elite.


France's large parties do not include within their ranks representatives of millions of French citizens of foreign origin, Arabs and Muslims, and do not sufficiently defend their rights. …


Those who cause the riots are usually rabble, because they are the ones who know how to shout [the loudest] and they think less than anyone else about the consequences [of their actions]. True, burning down schools and attacking passers-by, sometimes to the point of death, are indeed acts [reflecting] the behavior of the scum of society. Unfortunately, these are the voices of a society which [are not heard] within the political process.


Let us distinguish between the rabble and the demands it is raising. The rabble would not be getting any of that [considerable] solidarity [of the Arab and Muslim community] were it not for the sense of discrimination.


From "The Politicians of Paris Can No Longer Hide the Country's Ugly Face of Racist Discrimination," an editorial in Jomhouri-ye Eslami, a conservative Iranian Daily.


In addition to the historical claims to being defenders of human rights that the French have engraved on their brows, and in addition to the medal of pride they have awarded themselves for implementing democracy and freedom, the French politicians have tried to install their name at the forefront of the defenders of human rights in the world, and to [have France] renowned as the cultural center of Europe and of the world....


The killing of two youths by the French police... ended the patience of the people who had for years suffered from the racist discrimination of this country [France]. And their quiet movement has now turned to overt and violent rebellion….


Every looted store reflects the repression that the residents of the Élysée have imposed upon the poor and downtrodden people of their country. This is the exposure of all the lies that the French politicians maintain in their glittering and sparkling demands [to be considered] defenders of human rights everywhere.


Discrimination is also rising in England, Germany, America, Canada, and many other Western countries... are suffering from this disease.... The French people see the discrimination, the repression, and the hypocrisy of the French politicians. These matters, in addition to the problems of poverty and hunger, were too hard to bear, and have led them to rebel against their politicians. The domestic reality in France is now revealed. The politicians of Paris can no longer hide the ugly face of the country's racist discrimination....


From "Who Will Apologize to the Immigrant Youth?" an editorial by Dr. Haytham Manna', a member of the Arab Human Rights Committee member who lives in France, in Al-Siyassa, a newspaper in Kuwait.


Today, when there is an explosion in suburbs of northern Paris following the death of two adolescents who fled from the police, the French Society of Human Rights can only express what is happening with the words "three decades of failure and three years of arbitrary [decisions] that is considered to be government policy."


Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who four years ago described those who carried out similar activities as criminals... chose this time to describe the rebels as scum and rabble...


The French government has completely failed to set an effective policy towards the immigrants - a policy that will cause them to feel that they truly, and not only formally, belong to the Republic.... About a decade ago, I demanded [the establishment of] an investigative committee for monitoring racism in the French police.


The committee proved our assessments that racism in the security apparatuses had increased significantly. On March 15, 2000, the Advisory Committee on Human Rights [in France] released a report that 70% of the French admit having racist sentiments.


That same day, the Arab Human Rights Committee called some French human rights activists to warn them of the danger. Sometimes an artificial tranquility prevailed, as if France, which was "the land of the Declaration of Human and Civil Rights," cannot fall victim to the AIDS of racism. Shortly thereafter, a special poll showed that 60% of the French think that the proportion of those of foreign origin [in France] is [too] high. …"


From "The Unity of France and the Republic is Just a Myth...," an article by Tareq Ramadan, a Muslim intellectual living in Europe, in Al-Sharq Al-Awsat.


In what is happening today [in France],there are clearly groups in terested solely in destruction and arbitrary violence. But that is not all there is to it. There are [other] things underlying this wave of violence. The notion that the religious motive [is responsible] has taken hold, but we are losing sight of the socio-economic motive, which is destroying France by creating two isolated areas: the suburbs, on the one hand, and the affluent and middle-class areas, [on the other hand]….


My position is clear. Security and order must be restored, because violence is not the answer, and it is clear there will be retribution against the gangs.... We need a modern Jean Jaurès, since he is the one who said that the religious issue should be put aside in order to get to the social issue. The unity of France and the Republic is just a myth socially and economically. The problem is not the issue of secularism. Nicolas Sarkozy's statements (about "the'rabble") are totally unacceptable: we cannot defend one part of France by humiliating the other.


From a statement by Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi to the Qatar News Agency.


"We are deeply saddened by the [fact] that events have escalated to the point of burning cars and public facilities, and harming the interests of France and its people.... As Arabs and Muslims, we wish France and its friendly people security, peace and quiet, especially since the French positions on Arab and Muslim issues are characterized by fairness and honesty, and are reasonably free of dependence on the United States.



From an editorial by the former Kuwaiti education minister Ahmad Al-Rab'I, written in Al-Sharq Al-Awsat.


We can find some justifications for the accumulated anger, and can show understanding for the consequences of the policy of racism against and marginalization of minorities [in France]. But this does not exempt the leaders of the Arab community [from conducting] an internal dialogue before [conducting] a dialogue with the other, or from discussing the [Arab] community's internal crisis before discussing the crisis in French society.


Destruction and violence are not in the interests of the French of Arab origin and will not improve their lot. On the contrary, they nourish the racist ideology that is hostile to the minorities, provides [the French government] with fuel to continue the [racist] policy, and hampers the [minorities'] integration into French society.


There is anarchy within the Arab community, and recent events have proven this. There are no sources of authority capable of filling the role of leadership and of bringing calm. There are no real institutions of civil society to shape and motivate public opinion among the minorities. The French of Arab origin have not managed to organize themselves culturally, or to rack up achievements in French society that would enable them to play a greater role [in society] and weaken the policy of the extremist racists.


This minority must ask itself about this contradiction between its [significant] size and its minimal achievements in politics, the economy, culture, and academic life.


The French of Arab origin must act like French citizens, and must prove to the rest of the French population that they are an essential part of French society.


This means that they must rack up achievements, must be very active in improving their livelihoods and educational conditions, must fight those elements [among them] that harm the Arab minority through deviant behaviors that damage the image of the French of Arab origin, and must rid themselves of the ghetto mentality and become part of French civilization...."


From a column by Dr. Ali Sad al-Moussa, a columnist for Al Watan, the state-run Saudi Arabian daily.


The fires in Paris also set fire to all [the problems] that had accumulated with regard to Arab immigration. The Arab cannot live in harmony with a culture different from his own, for a simple reason: Today, the Arabs are spinning alone in a circle outside the circle of world culture.... However much the immigrant puts down roots in the new country, he cannot aspire to full equality with the native residents of the land. The Arab generations that immigrated [to France] one after the other do not understand this, and cannot live with this fact, even though France is the best country for immigration....


Whoever blames only the French government for the grave situation in these Parisian suburbs is mistaken. The Arabs clash culturally with the other, forcing each [side] to flee to his own community, so that the suburbs of the cities acquire the character of their mother culture. [The French immigrants of Arab origin] carry with their bags their heritage, their culture, their customs, and their conduct....


The appearance of the streets, the doors, the schools, and the level of services [in the Paris suburbs] takes you back to the cities of Morocco, which have not changed for centuries. Respect for the [French] government is almost non-existent in daily life.


Immigration requires a mental predisposition; why would any of us, who longs to immigrate to a different world, revile it with the most ugly of terms as soon as he reaches it?


From "Freedom, Equality, and Fraternity are Not for All,"a column by Dr. Khaled 'Awid Al-Jinfawi in Al-Siyassa, the Kuwiati daily.


This obvious failure of some of the immigrant societies in Western countries to integrate culturally and socially again sheds "historical" light on the degree of success in implementing many Western ideas of progressivism, such as "liberty, equality, and human fraternity,"... in the Middle East.


If the ideals of equality, justice, democracy, human rights, and fraternity, which emerged in the West and were adopted by the French Revolution in the late 18th century, have not managed to eradicate poverty and inequality, and have even increased the marginality of the [immigrant] communities, deprived [them of] their rights, and denied them many opportunities in the economy, in education, and in development - then how can these ideas... improve the lot of many in the Middle East?

From "The Rioting Is Forbidden by the Religion," a fatwa issued Nov. 6 by the Union of French Islamic Organizations.

People's rights cannot come at the expense of the rights of others.

The need to express [protest against] misery must not be at the expense of the rights of others, who watched their cars being burned before their eyes.... Aggression is forbidden by Islam according to the verse [Koran 2:190]: " Begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors."

This is also supported by the Sunna of the Messenger of Allah, and enjoys a consensus of the various schools of jurisprudence.... [It is forbidden for] Muslims who want to gain Allah's satisfaction to participate in activities that are liable to harm the common good and the good of the individual, and are liable to cause damage to people.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/13/weekinre...agewanted=print

Could this be part of a Muslim conspiracy that may effect the rest of Europe and rest of the world? Is the conspiracy really about the press of the religion of peace?

from what i understand there were two unarmed muslim teens that died from police brutality and the riots stem from that "straw"

Those two teen were running from the police and decided to hide out in a step down power station. Then, they somehow electricuted themselves. The police said that they weren't even looking for those two boys. Besides, if they were such precious innocents, why were they running from the police? Guilty concious?

Thier deaths were just an excuse to riot. Paris would've burned if one of them stubbed his toe. Those poeple are so out of reality that it's rediculous.

A friend of mine, who is an electrician, has informed me that stupidity and electricity go together like fire and gasoline.

and where did you get such an incorrect idea of what happened?

no the police kill no one only the two teen are stupid to get in electric generator.

This is definately an incorrect statement.

This is far more than just a protest, it has gone on to long now. If it had lasted just a few nights, people would have more sympathy, but not now, they are not doing themselves any favours, just alienating themselves even more.

Now you know the political stance of that writer, editor, and newspaper, past stories, future stories, subscription numbers over time, who the readers are, what the agenda is, and how they look at things. And then copy what you learned here to ABC, CBS, NBC, AP, Reuters, BCC, CNN... one front page story is the same, back page story, the same, take on the issues of the day, the same, opinion, the same... only need to read one and you've read em all.

You know this is really a sad state of affairs. Unfortunately this is one of the problems with an open door immigration policy. When people enter into a new country for a better standard of life, but still insist on maintaning the social conciousness of their former countries, you are constantly setting yourself up for upheavals. Unfortunately that is a hard choice, but a necessary one. Blend or segregate. You can't do both without predjudice and bitterness from one (if not both) sides. It's human nature to want the best of both worlds, though.

Of course there is more. It is not just wages, but over racial discrimination in employment also.

Oh, you mean conspiritorially...well then, no.

These muslims left thier homeland becuase it was a H*ll hole. Now, a generation later, they want to do the same things in France that made thier homeland a H*ll hole.

No offence to any Iriash here but, wouldn't that be almost the same thing as lthier ancesters leaving Ireland during the potato famine and then intentionally spreading the disease in the U.S.? Of course that didn't happen. The Irish are a modern people. Their forefathers wanted a better way of life so they came here and built one, fromthe ground up.

Not so for the muslims in most of France.

These muslims left thier homeland becuase it was a H*ll hole.

It's always the muslims isn't it? What homeland are you actually talking about, because muslims have a lot of "homelands". But I'm sure you knew there's a big difference between muslims from Turkey and muslims from Anatolia didn't you? And since we're at it, did you ever care to actually have a look at their "homeland" rather than their religion, which would be the first logical step towards understanding the riots in Paris?

thats funny, a similiar situation happend in england where a man that was suspected of terrirism tried to run away from police and was killed, and it turned out it wasn't the guy they were after, similiar situation

I don't know why it's always the muslims. It just seems so. I wonder why the Buddists never riot in the streets? No one in history has been screwed over as bad and the Native American Indians but, for some reason, no rioting? You don't think that it could be because the NAI have a faith which teaches that all things have value, do you? Let's look at Islam...
Of all the wars fought in the years since the end of WWII, over seventy percent involve at least one muslim nation. (!) This religeon can't even get along with the Hindus for crying out loud! In the last two hundred years, who else have the Hinus of India been at war with?
Well, if you leave out that incident with the space alien drag queens, then nobody. If you can't get along with a Hindu, then there's probably something fundamentally wrong with you.

Well Buddhists don't number around 1.2 billion and they are one of the only religions, unlike Christianity and Islam, that don't accept any kind of violence, from what I have heard anyway, but obviously I could be wrong.

I suggest they move to the Netherlands. Its very close by, and there very accepting of other people. x3

Also...one must ask oneself...how long until the French eventually surrender to the riots?