i like those feelings heart beat that magnetic pulse that pulls my hands away when im attempting psyballs and perhaps since my rational mind doesnt understand i call it paranormal but i like the feeling so why am i gonna stop do it just cause some want to convince me its not true

"Mind Over Matter" by Louisa E. Rhine published by Macmillan press

just realized yesterday that my book (which is used, as it's from 1970, and more importantly I found it while browsing at a used book store) was gifted by L. E. Rhine herself to someone...guess I shouldn't have been underlining so much

"Did they also try the experiment again, with the same conditions, except without attempting to use PK to affect the dice?"

Not to my knowledge, but if you wish to blame a series of experiments done over many years (this was just the first of many) by serious academics on dice, have fun... I think they assumed that if they could target high middle or low with the same dice they couldn't be weighted. If you're asking about whether or not chance would have actually been close to what it should have been, I have no answer except I'm sure some die manufacturing company would know.


"What was the predefined target range?"

"For the combined rolls, high was 8+, low 6- and 7 was middle." I wasn't very clear, but it was decided before a run began whether high middle or low was the target.


"I dont see as many people here claiming PK (your definition) or paranormal doesnt happen... what I do see is people disbelieving those that show up on these forums claiming to have powers. Why? 1. Those powers have yet to be proven. 2. They are unwilling to provide proof of their claims. 3. Its a trend. Part of that trend is that those children who once claimed it grow out of it."

I fully agree that there are people on this forum who think they are doing something or that something is happening that isn't. I don't agree that because this is the case everyone who does not offer their own set of indisputable proof is heavily discouraged. I believe that even if they totally made something up and this is why they came to this board that they can be introduced to things which are definitively NOT made up. If someone says "I can make psi-balls, but I want to make them way bigger" instead of saying something insulting or demanding proof that they obviously would've given, ask them if they have tried certain relatively reasonable things considering what they're claiming. Personally I'd rather take the opportunity to tell them to meditate, or even exercise. I can't prove this will help with their psi-balls which may well not exist, but either one will help them in other ways, and by getting in touch with their body and mind they might realize ON THEIR OWN that they had been sitting around manipulating their blood flow, nothing more.

fix the quotes plz

i think theyr blood flow is what causes the major mistakes but do you think that this ppl drive theyr own blood flow outside theyr bodies,i mean as i seen so far ppl focus on a point outside theyr hands not in the palms or anything within theyr bodies i've read once that blood flow and energy flow are totaly different,like personally i usually feel something undescridable,that moves really fast but i have no way to tell if its that energy or its just a sort of illusion that you can actually feel or even,if the blood flow can move that fast either way when i practice i never discard the possiblility of a mere illusions (i apoligise for the spelling as i am not english i may write with some errors my apoligies)but if this people actually believe they can do it at least let them dream, if this will make them feel happier but i also agree that are ppl here who also claim but they actually never tryed

What is the point in being rude and calling people liars concerning their self-proclaimed abilities? Sometimes topics and threads manifest from simple questions and observations to name calling, insults, arguements and negativity. It's stupid.

Obviously, we are all skeptical about many things. There are things that we believe in that others don't. I appreciate and respect everyone's point of view and opinion. Whether they agree with me or not, I'm interested in reading the thoughts and responses of others. I don't want to weed my way through a post that I think might be interesting and have to decipher a lot of angry words and exchanges just to find the actual topic somewhere within the thread.

Damn, and people wonder why humans can't and aren't getting along on a global level. It seems quite difficult to extend common courtesy and respect to others in this forum; why should we expect better in the outside world if we can't even agree to disagree on issues and topics we discover because we are members of this forum?

Just my opinion.

Idem dito

every one has his right for his own oppinion

I'm more afraid about your mental health than a 14 year old coming and torching my house with his eyes.

lol, just kidding man, but saying that skeptics are scared is completely uneducated and weak.
"Wow, I can't prove my point, I'd better imply that the skeptics are scared of the truth" is a common thought that occurs to believers this forum.

Do you have proof we're scared? No.



Questions and Observations?
No.
They mostly come from skeptics being skeptical (which is perfectly alright) and then believers getting defencive.

I will illustrate with emoticons.

Believer: I'm so evil, I think i can do psi
Skeptic: Are you sure?
Believer: No-one asked your opinion.
Skeptic: You did when you posted it on this board.
Believer: Well I'm psychic, so you suck
Skeptic: Where's your proof?
Believer: IN MA BELLY!

Okay..... maybe not.... replace that with:

Believer: Get lost you closed minded fool
Skeptic: Please, your proof is hardly proving anything
Believer: Yeah, that's what you'd like to think you closed-minded fool.
Skeptic: Well at least I don't play DBZ with my dog.
Believer:
Skeptic:
Believer:
Skeptic:

Etc. Etc. Etc.
If everyone accepted that hey, Skeptics like proof, and loathe people who think they're better than everyone else; then we'd be fine.
Sadly, we still have bluffers, and people who hate others with different views. So the war goes on.

Hey nice use of emoticons

as for the fact i said you were scared i am sorry maybe both it just in the nature of mancind to not wanting to exept something.

Sceptics don't want it to be true (most of them)
Belivers don't want to be wrong (most of them)

Every one has the right for his own opinion to bad in this world a own oppinion can get you killed ( in the worst case offcource )

and you are right i think some people are frouds and don't have any abilitys and maybe some do and i think you are absolutely right of the fact you want proof till you belife it.

Just be open to proof but also be sceptical, what i meen by that is that you should also see if it is a fake.

hope you get what i meen

Yep I understand

Anyways, I'm a skeptic, but I'd love for these abilities to be real. Honestly.
How much for exciting would life be, if every time you tried to go outside, there's be a chance you'd be torched by a 12 year old... awesome...

such abitlties have been document for centuries, unfortunately, most of this is now taken as fairy tales, and folklore, or simply as lies, i for one believe nothing is impossible only highly improbable. if one thinks they can do it by all means tell us, otherwise say why you thinkit is not possible, aside from the "There is no evidence" line, the same is said of UFO's, Sasquatch(bigfoot like creatures), Aliens, fairies, trolls, werewolves etc., you get my point, the evidence for these things is always being debated, always. Yet people believe in these things and more.

Jep people belive in UFO aliens etc. but they could stil be real or they could not exist

For the allien part i belive that couse it is a big universe and very UNLIKELY that the human race is the only one in this univerce

so i agrea anything could be possible maybe there is a sasquats and loch ness monster, and maybe people do have psichic abilitys who knows no whan nows FOR SURE till there is proof.

The Bible doesn't count.

Abilities? If they've been in the system so long, I'm sure believable proof would have been found.
Also, I'm sure that since it's been 'bred' into us for centuries, there wouldn't be any skepticism.
However, there is.
Let's face it. They have not been documented, they have been created, and misunderstood.




Okay, what do I say to this? The "No evidence" line isn't overused like you say.
I believe that it isn't real, because it seems that only teenagers have it. And hey, it's also the time when their imagination is running wild with hormones. And they're gullible too!

No the bible does not count in this case couse the bible is written years after wait centuries after it happend so storries chance i don't say the bible is fake or something just that some storries might be chanced from what actualy happend so it is not a reliable source

Are we talking about this psi ball thing again or psi in general. If it's just concerning itself with supposed abilities to conjure balls of energy from your hands eyes or left nostril I'd agree that there is little that stands up to scrutiny. If though we're talking psi in general then there's plenty of evidence that can't easily be explained or dismissed out of hand.

Yeah, I am thinking along those lines too...
Either, it's absolutely fake, or it just got changed along the way

Well it defenitly got chanced there is no doubt about that i meen ask tell some one a storie and let him tel some one else and let that person tel some else and so on till you have had like 10 people you should se the differnce between the original and the storie you heard. A muskito could be a fly after even 10 people

just think how the storie is after mny generations things get added and left out. and mankid made the bible not God or a gave it to us!!!!

i read the bible ( peaces of it the whole thing is to big for me ) and there is no where and god gave the bible to mankind

i think the reasons that believers get defensive is because skeptics talk is such definite terms which in turn make the believers feel that the skeptics feel themselfs superior for putting down the belivers (and BTW there are adults that belive in this stuff to, its just they dont waste their time on an internet forum where people attack eachother all the time)

i also find it hard to belive that were the only intelegent life in the universe... i dont think that they visit us and abduct us but i defenitly think its out there.....

I agree. You all laugh when I say my spidey sense is tingling, but look! Spiderman has a spidey sense! Its been documented damnit!



Yup, the same IS said about those. Except trolls. We know trolls exist.

BTW, theres plenty of evidence for UFOs. If you see something flying in the sky and you cant identify it, it's a UFO.



Point being? Aliens, however, are probably the most realistic out of your revised list.



Where do you get these statistics?



Like what?

there are no statistics for it because other intelegant life hasent been found yet, you know that just as much as everybodu elce does, so why did you even bother asking???

Because I'm wondering what kind of information he used to make the judgement that it is unlikely that aliens dont exist.

If live exists on planet Earth why is it so hard to believe that life can exist on others planets?

No one is saying its hard to believe theres life on other planets.

What is that they say? For the unbelievers no evidence will suffice, and for the believers none is needed? Anyone for those interested...

The Evidence: http://www.espresearch.com/examples.shtml

I reckon there is life out there, but I just think it's unicellular life..

its just something you develop through life, an opinion drawn from your won ideas throuought your life

i think theres muliti-cellular life definitely, and hopefully conscious life, and as for inelegant life, id like to think so, but theres not much behind that, id just like to think that theres somebody elce out there(there goes my imagination)

I am sorry I should have worded it differently and meant no offense. I probably should have stated that the majority of people find it hard to believe life can exist on another planet. It is only logical to me that if life exists here it can also exists on other planets and galaxies.

If you mean unicellular, then sure, but if you mean other intelligent species, refer to the link below. The human race was extremely lucky.
Read this: http://www.exitmundi.nl/et.htm

yes, single-celled life (think Andromeda Strain), it is also likely that any multi-cellular life is not carbon based, like life here is. remember when someone says life on another planet most are going to think life like what we have here, just look at the majority of movies with aliens, they have eyes (same basic position as ours), sometimes a nose, sometimes ears, etc. (think Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, etc.) or that life resembles something from our planet that we are all familiar with to a point. Only a few have ever put forth the idea that life in the universe; not the single-celled kind which they admit is most likely to be encountered; but the multi-cellular, is not going to resemble anything we are familiar with or could concieve, though Discovery's Alien Planet program was pretty cool, it is all still conjecture, we can't be sure til we have the means to actually explore the universe we are apart of, til then we shall not know the truth; or even then unlikely event of Extraterrestrial life being able to come here, and landing here; it is still just an idea, a concept of what might be out there beyond our moon. Don't forget we still don't know for sure what is on this planet, over 70% of the oceans have yet to be searched, there are places on land that no one can access or even satelites can penetrate, and we are looking up, strange, don't you think?

Thats evidence? Look at the sketches and pictures. They're not accurate at all. The government has also cancelled their RVing program for lack of results, mind you.



But I'm wondering what his reasoning is.



Im not sure, but I thought more people believed in life on other planets now?



Yes, that is logical. The question isnt whether its possible, the question is whether there is life somewhere else.

Most people I know feel that there is not life on other planets and are skeptical until they find that solid piece of proof. I did understand the question and sorry about my lack of communicative skills. I will stay out of it from now on.

Thats evidence? Look at the sketches and pictures. They're not accurate at all. The government has also cancelled their RVing program for lack of results, mind you.

LOL! They never cancelled it. They moved it from the military into subgroups of other government programs, like the CIA and NASA.
I think you should not believe everythingyou read in Skeptic Magazine, dear. There is enough evidence for remote viewing to prove it's validity. But I doubt a cynic could ever believe anything other than what he already "knows" to be true, even if it was right in front of your nose. I seriously don't see the point in arguing with someone who is so blinded by preconceived notions they are not open to new, valid evidence.

More evidence: http://www.psitech.net/skeptics.htm

I don't think we really do have any evidence. Just wat people say. Which I don't think is really good evidence at all.

[quote]just look at the majority of movies with aliens, they have eyes (same basic position as ours), sometimes a nose, sometimes ears, etc

hmm well look at the alien..i mean..xenomorph from the alien movies it has no eyes no hears no nose and they looked anything but normal aliens like the ones we see on movies today,thise aliens had no inteligence or consciusness they were wild creatures.


i believe there is unicellular life out there but if your talking about multi-celular i dont belive they have to be necesseily inteligent,most of them look like humanoids like the ones on star trek or babylon 5 or anything like that if thats what your thinking , others may be very different

I think there is other life out there too. I mean for those of you who believe in god, why make just us in this universe and not other life? We haven't traveled to other planets yet so for all we know there could be life on mars! I heard they discovered a new planet too.

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/stargate.htm



FAS is hardly a skeptic magazine or anything close. FAS.org's reputation is known throughout the world.

You, on the other hand... maybe you should avoid using such obviously biased sites as "psitech.net"



Really? Then why was the government RV program cancelled because there was no useful info derived from it?



Speak for yourself. Fas.org is right infront of your nose.



Are you looking in a mirror when you're saying that?

It never ceases to amaze me how someone can come here, make a claim that has been disproven for many years (such as government RVing programs not being cancelled) and then say that those who've looked into it and know that its been disproven are "blinded by preconceived notions" and are not open to valid evidence.

disproven they've been researching it for years and even if the results are low it doesnt mean that there are no results at all just because only a very low percentage demonstrated the abilities (or skills or whatever you call them)doesnt mean it doesnt exist and what makes you think that everybody that claims to have the abilities (through out the planet) are lying?? if i had those abilities do you think i would be a show off go out to the streets showing off my powers i dont waste my energy with such things my energy is too precius to waste it on tv shows or something like that (i'm practicing psyballs and i cant do 'em very well because im still a bit skeptic on the inside) do you think that the people who actually have the abilities would like to be treated differently,perhaps thats why there arent many results because there are too many people out there that thinks just because your different thinks your a freak,i mean do you honestly tell me that you wouldnt like such abilities to be true your telling me that deeply within you there isnt any small desire to learn them if theyr actually real??

Not realy.Remote viewing is considered a pseudoscience by mainstream scientists.
Positive results have only been achieved in tests designed and run by remote viewing proponents.

RV is just good ol harmless entertainment.

yep...though its an interesting ability

I'm remote viewing as we speak.
I can even do remote viewing over the internet, and you can too!


Look! A Remote! Quick! View it before it gets away!


Oh my god! Another one!

I think that's enough Remote Viewing for today.
---------


Hehe, couldn't resist

LOL


so yiou think remote vieuwing is impossible???

Viewing remotes is very possible,
But Remote Viewing.. well, first I need to learn what it is....

Ah, I see.
Nah, I think it's not possible. How can the brain recieve transmissions from something that it can't sense?

Well how can you see????
How can you hear things??

you have a special organ so maybe you can do remote vieuwing but you have to link to another person????

I don't know i am not psychic (jet mwuhahaha) and definitly do not know how to remote vieuw

Remote viewing is as much pseudo nonsense as dowsing.
There have been many investigations of the veracity of dowsing.
Positve studies were mostly informal and did not meet scientific standards.
These studies failed to exclude alternate explanations such as environmental clues in open terrain.
A well-designed study would have blinded the dowser and the experimenter.
Further, any study must be carefully analyzed for statistical significance before conclusions can be drawn.

hey Hazzard

Sorry but i have no id what drowzing is :s

How do you see things? Light directly affects you. It comes into contact with your eyes and your eyes process the light.



The sound hits your eardrums, which makes a few other bones vibrate (I forget what they're called) which end up sendin an electrical signal to your brain.

Dowsing is a controversial practice which proponents claim empowers them to find water
(metals, gem stones, and hidden objects) by carrying or waving a stick.

These studies failed to exclude alternate explanations such as environmental clues in open terrain.
Repeated tests under controlled conditions have not supported this claim.

LOL stellar

i meen you can see becouse the brain lets you see.

Wait and try to answher this question

Lets take the color red

do you see the same color red as the color i see as red or is the color your brain sees red to my brain green????

you get it gets you thinking right

It is resonabel to assume that a "red" apple does not give off "red light",or green for that matter, and it is misleading to think of things that we see, or of light itself, as objectively colored at all.

Rather, the apple simply absorbs light of various wavelengths shining on it to different degrees, in such a way that the unabsorbed light which it reflects is perceived as red. An apple is perceived to be red only because normal human color vision perceives light with different mixes of wavelengths differently and we have language to describe that difference.

well what about the dream??you can hear and see things but your not conscius of it how should i put this remote view is something that resembles lucid dreaming to me beacuse its not your senses that create the vision its the mind itself thats why when you dream sometimes the mind create disturtions of real place like i remenber once i dream of a shopping center without any stairs i was in the third floor (how the heck did i get up there without anything to lift me up)to me remote view is a sort of real time dream the you can trigger anytime