.

If everyone who doesn't understand you is counted as a sleeper, then you're going to find a lot of sleepers around here

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Aaaanyway, it would so much more interesting to talk about anything on this forum if even 10% of the topics would consist of something else than this god damn believers vs. sceptics bashing. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't bring any conclusion to anything. Although one has to always keep in mind that a huge amount of the population consists of teenies with too short fuses and no interest in the real world.

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Coming from someone called Gandalf, it doesn't exactly back your spiritual awakening argument.



If there was one and there was a forum for psi/metaphysics or whatever, on there then there would not be much of a response. Most people who believe in these things on this site are under 15.



A scenario:

Kid 1: I believe in pyrokinesis. I did it yesterday, just a little bit of fire though.
Kid 2: Erm no you didn't, there is no proof of that at all and it is quite a wild claim, I mean psi is one thing, but fire another.
Kid 1: OMG OMG Don't flame me, you are just a pathetic skeptic who is scared of the truth and is just trying to get their kicks!
Kid 2: No I was just pointing out...
Kid 3: Flamer!

This is quite a common occurance.

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It demonstrates what kind of people are normally drawn to such topics. Those who like fantasy, a form of escapism. That is the latest theory that I am backing.

Have anything to say about my scenario? I think you'll find it isn't as untrue as you would like it to be.
Also, any words on the general age of believers?

One does not have to be a rocket scientist to agree with you on the general age of the believers. These things are just one of their ways to fill the excitement vacuum and "what if" scenarios in their young uneducated minds.

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What can i say. If one had knowledge, one wouldn't have to believe.

Not so my wand waving friend. Being a fan of science fiction and fantasy (which I am a big fan of actually), demonstrates much further the need for escapism. Much more so than being interested in British comedy, there isn't nearly as much to 'escape' into compared with Middle Earth and Star Trek, or whatever floats your boat.

I am proposing that believing in the metaphysical world, without proof, but going on anecdotes etc, is a form of escapism. People want to believe in the fantastic, I do.



Lol I don't see how you can say it is untrue, I haven't been on this forum for long, but I have been for longer than you. So many arguments erupt from scenarios like that.
Lol! Nice bit about adults not posting to avoid being bashed. Provide some evidence for that, enough to defeat the theory that mostly children believe in these things for reasons said millions of times, and I will be happy to entertain the thought.

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escapism, & you claim otherwise...sounds poetic coming from someone who named himself after a talking horse..

I think you misunderstood. To say that one has been here longer is not an excuse, it is the truth. The longer you have been here, the more you have seen, therefore you normally, not always, have a better view on things.

Ah, so it is the adult that is the first to speak down to someone and patronise them. Nice one.



I think you will find I was not talking about comedy or opera etc, I was taling about Science Fiction and Fantasy, which you obviously like as your avatar and location is linked to Lord of the Rings.
I am simply observing the link (in a very pompous manner) and commenting on it; how the younger people who like to believe in fantasy are drawn to this imaginary world of metaphysics.
It is escapism from the monotony of everyday life, not just for children.

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In that case, if you believe in psi, why dont you believe in each and every single claim made by anyone?



Nah, I dont. 0 is an absolute limiting factor IMO.



I dont really hang around the ghost section because it doesnt interest me. I posted some posts asking for proof and such, but other than that, I dont see anything therefor me.



We have every right to harp this section. What if someone here believes in ghosts and all that, just doesnt believe in psi? We have every right to ignore another section, just as you have every right to believe in psi but not the invisible pink elephant on my front lawn.



I'm sorry, I wasnt aware that asking for evidence and then making conclusions based on the lack of evidence, and peoples unwillingness to give any, coupled with the fact that many people here are teens and preteens who "grow out" of psi, aswell as the few hard core psions who attempted to make a video of their abilities failed and realised that it was all their imagination, was teasing.





Exactly. You choose to click on the threads. So... maybe you should take some of your own advice and stop being hypocritical () by not complaining in every section.





I dont care if ppl believe in psi, but when they come here and tell us that the world is spinning because they're using their psi abilities to make it spin....



I really couldnt care if you think so or not. You asked, I answered.



I suppose whenever we click on the link that brings us to this section.



So does "Why are you posting this useless crap? Why dont you just leave this section?"



This section is filled with people trying to explain what psi is. We are not allowed to post our explanations though, apparently, because it doesnt presuppose psi exists and may thus hurt someones (a believers) "feelings". How hypocritical is THAT?

i never said i believed in psi. at all.



alright then... so i suppose that neither of them holds any proof. therefore, neither one can be considered more ridiculous than the other.



if they believe in ghosts, they should also respect those who believe in other things, as they would not want people who do not believe in ghosts to be rude to them.



i never said that any of that was teasing. it's just that when it gets down to people making mean jokes about one another, it's going a bit too far.



pardon? i most certainly do not "complain in every section". i don't believe i've ever flat out "complained" about anything on here. i believe you misunderstood what i was saying. i did choose to click on this thread because the topic caught my eye. i felt i had something good to contribute to the conversation, so i posted. but those who post pointless things and are rude to one another have no reason for being here. i have never said that you have to believe in psi to post here at all. i just think that if you have nothing productive to say, there's no point in posting at all.



amazingly, that is not always the case. for the most part, it's people coming here to discuss and explore 'abilities'. i see nothing wrong with that and cannot find a reason to be rude to them.



since when have i said that you're not allowed to post your explanations? i find that perfectly fine, but like i have said time and time again, it is only when you resort to rude comments and teasing that it becomes unnecesary. by all means, post other explanations, but go about it in an adult manner. when you are rude and tease them, you are stooping to the level of children yourselves.

Well then, why arent you complaining about psi believers not believing in everything, or religion disbelievers believing in nothing?



That doesnt mean they should not say anything when someone comes on and posts saying that THEY are a gost, correct?



Thats exactly what was implied, because thats what most of the posts are.



I know. By your logic, thats hypocritical of you.



Your post was filled with complaints!



But when someone posts in a section because it catches their eye, they're hypocritical, hmm?





Show me examples of what you mean.



And what do you consider productive?



And when someone who disbelieves it discusses the ability, apparently they're being hypocritical and rude. That is the implication you're making, be it on purpose or because of a lack of specifying





You seem to think that talking about their age, ignorance and immaturity is "cracking jokes" and should not be posted.

I completely agree, although I would say you have a bit more than a brick for a brain, don't be too hard on yourself.
Notice who it is who starts the mud slinging first...

Let's end it, please be civil, after all you are an adult...

first of all, i'm not complaining about anything. secondly, this thread was started on the sole topic of those who believe in psi.


people come on and post that they can see ghosts. *shrug* no one seems to care about that.


i never once complained about anything. i stated facts and mentioned solutions. i made a point. but i never "complained". by that logic, you've complained just as much as i have.


please make what you're trying to say more clear. i never said that. you need to quit putting words in my mouth.


take a look at any thread regarding psi.


constructive criticism and kind explanations. not that i havent already repeated myself on this subject a thousand times...


once again, something that i have repeated many times. i don't understand why you're missing the point over and over again. i've simplified it as much as possible. i have no problem with people who disbelieve discussing activities. i just don't agree with making fun of and being rude to those who do believe. friendly debates and such are fine, but name-calling and rude comments are unnecessary.


you really don't need to stereotype them because of their age, for one thing. and it's entirely unnecessary to talk about their ignorance and immaturity. there's no reason for you to continually try to provoke them with sarcasm and insults.

There you are, complaining about what people post!



So?

Its still a far cry from people claiming to be ghosts...



But Im not saying I didnt complain. You are.



Sure you said that.

"if you're going to bash one particular part of the forum, you're being completely hypocritical."

In response to people posting about their explanations for these so called psi abilities, which you made evident you consider "bashing". In either case, whether its bashing or not, using your logic, you are also hypocritical for not posting a similar message in the religious section, or the conspiracy section, where there is actual bashing.



Yup.

Claim: "I can move a table with my mind. I even made it float!"
Responses: "Prove it."
"Vid plz."
"Oh look, another 14 year old who claims to have powers. Its just a phase, you'll grow out of it."

Claim: "I can control the weather! I was responsible for hurricane Rita!"
Response: "Year, right. Proof plz."
"Simply another person looking for attetion."

AAAAAAHHHHH! The bashing!



Please, show me what you consider a "kind explanation"



But the thing is that apparently if the disbeliever says something about the persons age, or says the person is simply a child looking for attention, that is "rude" and should not be posted. Thats the implication you made, because after all, thats what's seen on this forums mostly.



There we go. Right from the horses mouth. The explanations ARE their age, their ignorance, immaturity/imagination, desire for attention. Its not to be insulting or to try and provoke them, those are our explanations!

If someone comes to the forum and makes a post asking for explanations for him hearing voices in his head... its not rude or insulting to mention that he may just be a bit nuts. Instead of us telling him he may be schizophrenic, you'd rather limit the discussion to believers who talk about government conspiracies, implants and so on. THAT is hypocritical.

i was not complaining, at least not by my definition of complaining. i don't know what your definition is. i was stating the facts and making a point. i was not whining about things and not trying to fix them, which is what i consider "complaining".

you continue to think that i am implying that you can't reply to threads. i am not saying that at all!!! and i do wish that you would LISTEN instead of being so determined to show me up that you overlook my point ENTIRELY.

a simple "well, you may not have been moving it. it could easily have been a draft, amongst any other things" would do for those who believe they have performed telekenesis of some sort. you don't need to say "you're so stupid. that stuff isn't real. go play with your friends or something until you grow up." i just don't find that necessary. maybe you believe that insults are the only way to go about discussing things, but i disagree.

and age really has nothing to do with it. not all thirteen year olds are mindless idiots. there are many adults who are much worse than any teenager. immaturity and ignorance are qualities that would cause a person to behave in a certain way, but age cannot be considered to be one of the only factors behind a person's behavior. age is only a number.

and i'm not bashing a certain section of this forum. i'm bashing ignorant people who think that they are superior to everyone else and therefore should be allowed to say whatever they want to whomever they want, despite how rude or hateful it may be.

here, a simple illustration:

"well, i don't think that it's really possible to move a pencil with your mind. are you positive that there's nothing moving the table it's on? i understand that at a young age, this stuff can be really interesting, but we have to eliminate every other possibility before assuming that you're psychic."
VS.
"there is no such thing as psychic abilities. you're wasting everyone's time by posting this. you're a nut if you think any of that stuff actually works. it's just your overactive pre-teen imagination. go to the mall or something and quit posting your immature nonsense."

can YOU see a difference?

MY POINT: (here, i'll make it very clear so that you can understand it)- everyone has their own personal beliefs. it is perfectly acceptible to disagree with others' beliefs, so long as you do it in a civil and kind manner. there is no need for childish jokes and teasing. this is not the first grade playground. disagree with me if you will, but i personally don't see a need for animocity and rude comments.

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Lmao! I hope you realise the hipocracy of the whole situation. You are saying you are blunt and state the truth, then you get angry at skeptics who are equally blunt and state the truth!
Lol you really are one to talk...



I am sorry, if you try to make a funny comment please put a smiley by it, I can't tell if you are trying to be funny, all I know is that I am not laughing.



Erm you are wrong, very, very wrong. Again, you have not listened because of your narrow mindedness and you were too busy flaming.
Escapism is prominent here, people who like fantasy and science fiction are much more likely to believe in the metaphysical world, it's a fact.
It is escapism.
Nothing to do with comedy
Lol the talking horse name was random, I didn't even know it was a talking horse at first, my wand waving friend.

Please be civil, 'adult'. You really are putting on a poor show with these childish jibes, some form of humour? And poor arguments.

Please try and open your mind, you blind believers are so ironically narrow minded.

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I'm awake. I woke up like... 7 hours ago.. bloody school.

Stop attempting to make use believe you have some intelligence by using metaphors that really... don't mean anything.... 'Fool of a took'

Gandalf, I knew you didn't have it in you to reply properly and aruge to a decent standard, which is why, as many do have resorted to trying to be funny.
Please, my wand waving friend, don't use this thread as a way to up your post count with silly little comments.

Pleasant conversations, hmm? You two are saying the same things, except that one is being more polite than the other.

Personally, I think the most open-minded thing you can do is to try it for yourself. And don't try something that won't give you concrete results *if* you succeed. (no psiballs)

Does all of the above seem reasonable?

Also, one is explaing themselves and their theory, whilst the gandalf is essentially saying 'goo goo nanna'.

So what do you suggest I try? After trying a psi ball I am no longer willing to try anything that takes more than 30 seconds, oh but I forgot, sometime these powers take years to manifest! Silly me...

Are you reffering to one particular form of psi or the whole subject in general.

Evidence, depending on what area of psi we're talking about their's a good amount, some anecdotal, some empirical, nothing yet that is regarded as solid proof but hardly the waste of time some would have us believe. See experiments by Rupert Sheldrake or Archie Roy and Trish Robertson for some compelling conclusions about the existence of psi.

Even if it were true that we won't find anything any time soon a true skeptic would welcome further investigation, a debunker or materialist however will dismiss the effort as useless before it's begun.

I think that reducing such a varied and myriad subject down to the machinations of teenagers is short sighted at the least.

That's just plain wrong. He gave up the discussion with you about two posts ago, but before that, his reasoning made much more sense than yours. Sorry. I *think* he realized something I haven't yet.



30 seconds? Okay, don't bother trying, but you shouldn't call yourself honestly interested in this subject.
It took me a few minutes to get slightly interesting results, and a couple of days to get _really_ interesting results. Don't bother asking what I define as really interesting. After a month or so, something happened which I guess I could call 'proof' from a scientific point of view. If I am to believe what I hear on the internet, most people use more time than I did.

lol obviously you would say that, you believe in this unsubstantiated, and quite frankly at times ridiculous, topic.



Well I am interested, I am just not willing to do something so ridiculous, to me it is like saying jump and flap your arms, you may just fly! If it doesn't work, give it a few months!
Flap away Bob, flap away home.

I embraced a theory, wasn't at all offensive, yet this is how it ends up due childish remarks and name calling.

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Holding a grudge my wand waving friend? I don't hold grudges, I am just making a point that it isn't always non believers that act like little children!
I'll flap away, flap away home, and yes I am going to end this now, so if you have anything intelligent to contribute I will come back later, putting my childishness aside of course.

Apparently people use their own definitions of words more than they use true definitions, and then end up arguing endlessly over it.

Complain: To express feelings of pain, dissatisfaction, or resentment.

You sure did express a feeling of resentment at what some of the people post.



I didnt say that you're implying that I cant reply to threads, I'm saying that you are implying censoring certain perfectly reasonable responses... ironically, those responses being the ones that non-believers use to explain certain claims. You've said it above:

"you really don't need to stereotype them because of their age, for one thing. and it's entirely unnecessary to talk about their ignorance and immaturity. there's no reason for you to continually try to provoke them with sarcasm and insults."

Dont change your story now. You think its unnecessary to talk about their age, ignorance and immaturity, you consider this to be provokating, insulting, and thus should not be posted.



But what if thats not what someone believes? Or better yet, why cant someone add nay precision?

"Well, you're 12 years old and your imagination is at a high stage at that age. Many children tend to believe they have superpowers, but they eventually grow out of it." Thats an explanation.

"Well, it was probably a breeze. Your wishful thinking it convincing you that it was you, however." Thats an explanation.

"Judging by your claims, lack of evidence, utter disappearance when asked to provide any evidence, I think you're lying in an attempt to get some attention." Thats another explanation, a viable one at that.



Changing your story now? In your previous post, you were talking about age, ignorance and immaturity, not stupidity.



Thats like saying age has nothing to do with puberty.



Im sure you're not claiming that thirteen year olds who believe in psi are mindless idiots, are you? I dont remember any of us mentioning that before...




Umm, I'm not sure if you've realised this, but there is a certain physical and chemical aspect to someone's age...



Lol, how ironic, you're bashing ignorant people... lol.

Either way, you're bashing the people in this section, not in all the other sections. By your logic, that is hypocritical.



I can see the difference. You've changed your story. You are no longer talking about the content, but about the tone. Thats not what your previous post was about.

Just because we constantly argue with you doesn't mean we're holding a grudge
It just means your posts are easy to argue against, and are quite un-educated
Honestly, the metaphors are just making you look sillier every post you make.


Not true. Only teenagers seem to think they have special powers.


I'm 14. I'm a skeptic. However, you'd love to call me an idiot, wouldn't you?


Okay, now I know we shouln't be arguing like retards. But I must say, it's rather fun

thats not true, when i moved into my new house, i found out that my neighbors (who are 35) to this stuff, my aunts and my mom do, my dad did, you can find whole communities of adults who "think they have special powers" they just dont spend their time arguing with teenagers on an internet forum

Not trying to descriminate, but has anyone ever thought that that's why the Terrorists want to god damn bomb you?

To have adults that still indulge in this, is pathetic enough. Do you really think its argument value is anything than negative though? Adults are not always right. The world is full of examples.

ok,honetly i dont give a damn if its real or not,the fact is we dont have evidence that its real but we dont have evidence it isnt,and i agree that most children here want to re-act the dragon ball z FOR GODNESS SAKE ITS A CARTOON more importantly of all GOKU IS AN ALIEN AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A HUMAN WITH A TAIL he is a sayan a monkey,he's not human for some reason he came froma planet named vegeta i dont remenber it being called earth.
And stop comparing this things to cartoons or anyhthing,they have nothing to do with it,and dont blame ppl for having this intresest i feel intrest for the supernatural but i dont trust skeptics because they thing theyr supirior or theyr scared someone would use TK on them and make they hearts stop beating...excuse me for being so rude,its my point of view,i suck at school but that doesnt make me less inteligent.i think reality is far beyond science

1. What reason do you have to claim that they're trying to be superior? They're not the ones here claiming to have any ability which the average joe doesnt have...
2. If they're scared that someone would use TK on them, that would mean that they believe in TK, which doesnt seem to be the case.
3. Lumping all skeptics into a pile like that is no better than if you replaced the word "skeptics" with "black" or "whites" or "chinese" or any other race.



Why do you suck at school?



I think that you dont really comprehend what you just said.

To think of a world different to what we percieve is a romantic notion but hardly a metaphysical skill.

I am pretty sure that no person here (if anywhere) can use imaginary powers to hurt me. After all if they did I would probably be dead already...

The first experiment on the subject of psycho-kinesis (in the parlance of the experiment conductors) at Duke universitys parapsychology division was administered by JB Rhine and involved 25 people (I believe they were students, maybe some townies too) throwing 2 dice from a cup against a cardboard wall and attempting to get a predefined value for their roll. For the combined rolls, high was 8+, low 6- and 7 was middle. They rolled in "runs" of 12 and attempted to manipulate the die via PK, psychokinesis.

Out of 562 "runs" (a set of 12 rolls of the pair of dice), or 6744 throws of the pair of dice, 3,110 were in the predefined target range. Chance would have predicted 2,810 hits, leaving the results a full 10% above chance. According to Rhines formula, which I don't understand or care to, this is not likely to happen in a billion repeats of the exact same experiment. I'm guessing this is some kind of statistic manipulation, but the 10% above chance is pretty clear cut.

I cite this not because it is impressive, but because I have access to the book it is from and it is the first cited in the book. Later on, when they begin to understand what it is that determines whether someone is able to manipulate things with PK the %'s get higher (I'm guessing 15%, so no, random students and people from town have not, to my knowledge, been tested as being able to manipulate dice to roll the way they want to 100% of the time).

Well, now that I've shown you mine, what experiments do you have that don't merely prove a specific person to be a fraud, but actually negate the possibility of PK or any paranormal activity to happen? If you can you're a better man than I, I've tried to explain away paranormal things for 10 years now as a good streamlined american should, but in the end I'm much more interested in the truth than what I can find support from society.

Wat is the book called TOKOYO???

most skeptics seem to be so desprate in proving it to be so fictional i just dont understand,but its like theyr forced not to believe i've seen post so far not only in this forum just to ridiculus its like theyr forced not to believe.

as for school i suck because i find no interest in the subjects and the lack of studying i spend more times surfing for the stuff im really intrested on

and there is still many things that science can explain fully,like do you think that if time travel was possible you travel 65 million years ago do you think if you pervent the dinosaurs extinction the future wouldnt be affected??

i agree with tokoyo but listen there were positive results a few 10%isnt that high but dont expect that, that many ppl are able to do it remenber that so far only a few have been seen with such ability and many of those who claim this abilities are fraud but it would be the same as saying that everybody that claimed to do it was lying no??(including other continets,countries and so on)

ithink they are scared of the fact that there might be something that can not be explained

Sceptics are not scared....they consider...you may wanna try that because I think its the rest of you, that are really scared to the prospect you may be wrong.

Hmm i am not scared of being wrong

But i do want to be right. i am a little sceptic i think and maybe you are right maybe i am scared well i will keep triing taking the sceptic side with me so if the say it is your blood you feel ok so next time i gonne see is it true

same as the thing people say there hands feel a pulsating force i had that but i belive it was just that i felt my heart beat in my hands felt nice though

What was the predefined target range?

Did they also try the experiment again, with the same conditions, except without attempting to use PK to affect the dice?



Oh no you dont. PLease, give me the source, I want to look into it. Anyone could just write what you did, and you have no credibility what so ever...



I dont see as many people here claiming PK (your definition) or paranormal doesnt happen... what I do see is people disbelieving those that show up on these forums claiming to have powers. Why? 1. Those powers have yet to be proven. 2. They are unwilling to provide proof of their claims. 3. Its a trend. Part of that trend is that those children who once claimed it grow out of it.



I dont study, nor find too muc interest in my subjects neither. Anyway, whatever your reasons are, since you suck at school, is it fair to say you dont have the knowlege that others, who dont suck at school, have?



What does your question have to do with whether science can or cant explain something?



Think whatever you want.