Debate suggestion by many and Division Bell.
This is pretty simple.
Looking for 2 participants.
One who will debate for the positives of the legalisation of Cannabis and one who will debate the negative.
This will be a 1v1 formal debate.
An Introduction, 5 bodily posts and a conclusion from each participant. No Flaming, bad manners or profantities will be tolerated.
Please be aware that:
There is a point deduction for debaters who fail to make a post within the 7 day time frame. The deductions will be 2 points for every day the participant fails to post after the 7 days.
This is to ensure that debates continue in a timely fashion. If for any reason you cannot post within the 7 days, please ensure that you let myself or Aztec know to avoid having the points taken off your debate.
If, however the participant does not then attempt to make a post for upto 2 weeks after the 7 day rule has started an immediate disqualification will occur.
Lottie
Full Version: Pro's and Con's of Legalising Cannabis
Fab! 
TooFarGone will be debating for the positives of the legalisation of cannabis.
Joc will be debating the negatives of the legalisation of cannabis.
TooFarGone you will begin with your introduction.
Any problems please feel free to pm Aztec or myself.
Good Luck!
TooFarGone will be debating for the positives of the legalisation of cannabis.
Joc will be debating the negatives of the legalisation of cannabis.
TooFarGone you will begin with your introduction.
Any problems please feel free to pm Aztec or myself.
Good Luck!
CANNABIS
No plant has caused more controversy then this single plant, a plant older then civilization as we know it. It has scores of people whom accept and love it, and just as many who scorn and banish it...both groups equally passionate.
Myself? I am on the pro marijuana side. I believe that with proper juristiction, it could become as acceptable as alchohol, or tobacco. I'm not forcing it upon anyone. Thats the beaty of the plant...it's for enjoyment, and part of free will.
Throughout the process of this debate, I will focus on three main points...one for each body post. These will be Marijuana in History, Marijuana today, and What it may become. These are tentative, and withing each I will further discuss Marijuana's effects, both pors and cons, and its place in history and culture.
I am for legalization, if anything to make it safer to use, and so we can divert our attention to more important issues at hand.
No plant has caused more controversy then this single plant, a plant older then civilization as we know it. It has scores of people whom accept and love it, and just as many who scorn and banish it...both groups equally passionate.
Myself? I am on the pro marijuana side. I believe that with proper juristiction, it could become as acceptable as alchohol, or tobacco. I'm not forcing it upon anyone. Thats the beaty of the plant...it's for enjoyment, and part of free will.
Throughout the process of this debate, I will focus on three main points...one for each body post. These will be Marijuana in History, Marijuana today, and What it may become. These are tentative, and withing each I will further discuss Marijuana's effects, both pors and cons, and its place in history and culture.
I am for legalization, if anything to make it safer to use, and so we can divert our attention to more important issues at hand.
Marijuana, The Number One Cash Crop
The plant has many benefits to society. But then again, so does the Poppy. Many deadly substances benefit society. Does this mean they should all be legal? Not by any means. In the following posts I shall demonstrate to our audience that the Cons of Legalization far out-weigh the Pros.
Many people think they should be able to grow Marijuana in their own houses; that legalization would therefore take it 'off the streets'. This is wishful thinking that has no basis in reality. Others think that legalization of Marijuana would remove it from the hands of the drug-dealers. This too has no basis in reality. Some will opine that if we just legalize Marijuana then we can tax it and use the tax revenues to fund the war against the 'real drugs'. Again no basis in reality.
In the next few posts I will explore these misconceptions as well as others that may be introduced by my opponent.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank both my opponent Too Far Gone as well as Lottie for allowing me into yet another debate.
The plant has many benefits to society. But then again, so does the Poppy. Many deadly substances benefit society. Does this mean they should all be legal? Not by any means. In the following posts I shall demonstrate to our audience that the Cons of Legalization far out-weigh the Pros.
Many people think they should be able to grow Marijuana in their own houses; that legalization would therefore take it 'off the streets'. This is wishful thinking that has no basis in reality. Others think that legalization of Marijuana would remove it from the hands of the drug-dealers. This too has no basis in reality. Some will opine that if we just legalize Marijuana then we can tax it and use the tax revenues to fund the war against the 'real drugs'. Again no basis in reality.
In the next few posts I will explore these misconceptions as well as others that may be introduced by my opponent.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank both my opponent Too Far Gone as well as Lottie for allowing me into yet another debate.
Legalization of Marijuana in the Netherlands
Today as we all know, Marijuana is illegal in most places...with, the notable exception of the Netherlands. I will be using the Netherlands as an example of the pros of legalizing Marijuana, and will be explaining how this policy is successfull.
* THIS page was used as a reference for this following post.
The Netherlands current drug policy is based on two practical principles:
1. That the drug is "...a public health issue, not a criminal issue", and
2. That there is a difference between " hard and soft drugs".
The lawmakers believe:
A great philosophy indeed. Afterall, in our society, these marijuana has been made illegle, yet use is on the rise. It is clear that simply outlawing it isn't effective. I believe, that if legalized and properly controlled, with people being properly educated about the pros and cons, then marijuana could become an acceptable part of our society.
Regarding public health, the use of soft drugs:
This, is how it should be. Marijuana shouldn't cause people trouble, nor should it be forced upon people whom don't wish tp use it. Driving under the unfluence of ANY substance should be prohibited, as it in dangers us, and others.
Marijuana is a "recreational drug". As a user,supporter of it, and member of our society, I whole heartedly believe in the above. If you choose to use it, then you must be aware of what it can do to you, or what harm it can cause others. This is something that everyone should be made aware of. If someone is arrested for driving when under the influence of marijuana, I agree they should be chraged. But charging someone for simply having it, and responsibly enjoying it is just illogical.
I will further explore the defining of "hard and soft drugs" as well as distribution of Marijuana in my next body post.
Today as we all know, Marijuana is illegal in most places...with, the notable exception of the Netherlands. I will be using the Netherlands as an example of the pros of legalizing Marijuana, and will be explaining how this policy is successfull.
* THIS page was used as a reference for this following post.
The Netherlands current drug policy is based on two practical principles:
1. That the drug is "...a public health issue, not a criminal issue", and
2. That there is a difference between " hard and soft drugs".
The lawmakers believe:
QUOTE
if a problem has proved to be unstoppable, it is better to try controlling it instead of continuing to enforce laws that have shown to be unable to stop the problem
A great philosophy indeed. Afterall, in our society, these marijuana has been made illegle, yet use is on the rise. It is clear that simply outlawing it isn't effective. I believe, that if legalized and properly controlled, with people being properly educated about the pros and cons, then marijuana could become an acceptable part of our society.
Regarding public health, the use of soft drugs:
QUOTE
in general is not prohibited, on the general principle of self-determination in matters of the body. Specifically, that it is not illegal to hurt yourself even if it is harmful to society; however, you remain liable for the consequences of your actions. Because of this, users are not prosecuted for possession of small quantities of soft drugs ("for personal use"). Driving under the influence of drugs is nevertheless prohibited, as is being under the influence in public (of either alcohol or other drugs), mainly from a public nuisance perspective.
This, is how it should be. Marijuana shouldn't cause people trouble, nor should it be forced upon people whom don't wish tp use it. Driving under the unfluence of ANY substance should be prohibited, as it in dangers us, and others.
Marijuana is a "recreational drug". As a user,supporter of it, and member of our society, I whole heartedly believe in the above. If you choose to use it, then you must be aware of what it can do to you, or what harm it can cause others. This is something that everyone should be made aware of. If someone is arrested for driving when under the influence of marijuana, I agree they should be chraged. But charging someone for simply having it, and responsibly enjoying it is just illogical.
I will further explore the defining of "hard and soft drugs" as well as distribution of Marijuana in my next body post.
Wikepedia is not really a legitimate source of anything. Since anyone can edit information found there.
Why is Marijuana illegal in the first place? And why should it remain illegal? The answer is not found in a sound bite by NORML or by listening to a miriad of stoned users touting its greatness. The answer rather, is found in the long, long, long history of the drug.
For a more expansive awareness of the history of mariuana, This Site may be helpful.
One of the reasons it should remain illegal is because of its highly addictive qualities. While not physically addictive, marijuana is very psychologically addictive. Once a person begins getting 'high' on marijuana there is one thing he must find; a seller of marijuana. The user may start out innocently enough with no interest in other drugs, however, in the course of finding a seller, it is highly likely that the user will come into contact with even more powerful and deadly drugs.
No one has ever died as a result of overdose from marijuana, however; it is none the less a very powerful drug. Powerful drugs should not be available to the masses.
Many people make an inaccurate correlation between alchohol and marijuana. Alchohol is physically addictive, but it isn't extremely psychologically addictive. A normal person may decide to have a few beers after work with friends and as a result become intoxicated. That same person however is not going to necessarily make that a habit. Marijuana use quickly becomes an intrenched habit, very hard to break.
Marijuana does damage the user and society as well. Memory loss, change of attitudes, mood swings, unproductiveness....these are but a few of the downsides of marijuana use.
Over the long term these side effects can become permanent. What good does it do for society if the people in the society are stoned 24/7? And with marijuana use, it isn't a 'part time' habit. It is an 'all the time' habit. Do we really want or need a populace stoned all the time?
Why is Marijuana illegal in the first place? And why should it remain illegal? The answer is not found in a sound bite by NORML or by listening to a miriad of stoned users touting its greatness. The answer rather, is found in the long, long, long history of the drug.
For a more expansive awareness of the history of mariuana, This Site may be helpful.
One of the reasons it should remain illegal is because of its highly addictive qualities. While not physically addictive, marijuana is very psychologically addictive. Once a person begins getting 'high' on marijuana there is one thing he must find; a seller of marijuana. The user may start out innocently enough with no interest in other drugs, however, in the course of finding a seller, it is highly likely that the user will come into contact with even more powerful and deadly drugs.
No one has ever died as a result of overdose from marijuana, however; it is none the less a very powerful drug. Powerful drugs should not be available to the masses.
Many people make an inaccurate correlation between alchohol and marijuana. Alchohol is physically addictive, but it isn't extremely psychologically addictive. A normal person may decide to have a few beers after work with friends and as a result become intoxicated. That same person however is not going to necessarily make that a habit. Marijuana use quickly becomes an intrenched habit, very hard to break.
Marijuana does damage the user and society as well. Memory loss, change of attitudes, mood swings, unproductiveness....these are but a few of the downsides of marijuana use.
Over the long term these side effects can become permanent. What good does it do for society if the people in the society are stoned 24/7? And with marijuana use, it isn't a 'part time' habit. It is an 'all the time' habit. Do we really want or need a populace stoned all the time?
My apologies...I have mid terms, and I've been studying most of the time.
Regarding Wikipedia, all information submitted is but infront of a review panal, who also check how legitimate the information presented is.
I couldn't agree more. Being stoned all the time so that it interfers with ones life, work, and society is stupid. So is being drunk all the time.
Being drunk of your ass and trying to go to work, or raise a family is unaccepted in our society. But, drinking with your friends every now and then is accepted.
This is how I feel it should be with marijuana. It shouldn't be something which consumes peoples live, making them unfit to work, raise a family, or be in society in general.
A powerfull drug marijuana is indeed, there is no denying it. Mentally addictive? I would agree that yes, it is. Alchohol is physically addictive? Ask any addict and there is a mental addiction involved. Maybe they do it to forget the pain, to forget the bad things in life, or maybe they justlike the state of mind and body it puts them in.
Let me ask everyone reading this some questions?
Do you drink occasionally?
If yes, are you an addict?
I'm willing to bet that many people said YES to the first question.
And, I'm willing to bet that most of them said NO to the second.
Yes, marijuana can be addictive. As can just about anything in life. It isn't so much the substance, as the user. It is up to the user to decide when enough is enough. Most people have the sense to distunguish when they've had enough of anything. But, some people are truly addicts, and can take anything to extremes.
Also regarding this:
You all know me fairly well....well, from what you've seen on the forums, which, I feel, is more or less what I am like in person. I admit, that I use marijuana. So do some of my friends. Is the only thing we think about " when can I get my next joint"? NO!! Of course not!
We are responsible. It is something that comes after everything important in my life is done. I study, do all my work at home and in school. Never have I heard someone complain to my parents about my behaviour. Not the stereotypical drug user, would you say?
It is stigmas like these, which make things seem much worse then they are.
Regarding Wikipedia, all information submitted is but infront of a review panal, who also check how legitimate the information presented is.
QUOTE
What good does it do for society if the people in the society are stoned 24/7? And with marijuana use, it isn't a 'part time' habit. It is an 'all the time' habit. Do we really want or need a populace stoned all the time?
I couldn't agree more. Being stoned all the time so that it interfers with ones life, work, and society is stupid. So is being drunk all the time.
Being drunk of your ass and trying to go to work, or raise a family is unaccepted in our society. But, drinking with your friends every now and then is accepted.
This is how I feel it should be with marijuana. It shouldn't be something which consumes peoples live, making them unfit to work, raise a family, or be in society in general.
A powerfull drug marijuana is indeed, there is no denying it. Mentally addictive? I would agree that yes, it is. Alchohol is physically addictive? Ask any addict and there is a mental addiction involved. Maybe they do it to forget the pain, to forget the bad things in life, or maybe they justlike the state of mind and body it puts them in.
Let me ask everyone reading this some questions?
Do you drink occasionally?
If yes, are you an addict?
I'm willing to bet that many people said YES to the first question.
And, I'm willing to bet that most of them said NO to the second.
Yes, marijuana can be addictive. As can just about anything in life. It isn't so much the substance, as the user. It is up to the user to decide when enough is enough. Most people have the sense to distunguish when they've had enough of anything. But, some people are truly addicts, and can take anything to extremes.
Also regarding this:
QUOTE
Once a person begins getting 'high' on marijuana there is one thing he must find; a seller of marijuana. The user may start out innocently enough with no interest in other drugs, however, in the course of finding a seller, it is highly likely that the user will come into contact with even more powerful and deadly drugs.
You all know me fairly well....well, from what you've seen on the forums, which, I feel, is more or less what I am like in person. I admit, that I use marijuana. So do some of my friends. Is the only thing we think about " when can I get my next joint"? NO!! Of course not!
We are responsible. It is something that comes after everything important in my life is done. I study, do all my work at home and in school. Never have I heard someone complain to my parents about my behaviour. Not the stereotypical drug user, would you say?
It is stigmas like these, which make things seem much worse then they are.
QUOTE
Do you drink occasionally?
If yes, are you an addict?
I'm willing to bet that many people said YES to the first question.
And, I'm willing to bet that most of them said NO to the second.
Yes, marijuana can be addictive. As can just about anything in life. It isn't so much the substance, as the user. It is up to the user to decide when enough is enough. Most people have the sense to distunguish when they've had enough of anything. But, some people are truly addicts, and can take anything to extremes.
If yes, are you an addict?
I'm willing to bet that many people said YES to the first question.
And, I'm willing to bet that most of them said NO to the second.
Yes, marijuana can be addictive. As can just about anything in life. It isn't so much the substance, as the user. It is up to the user to decide when enough is enough. Most people have the sense to distunguish when they've had enough of anything. But, some people are truly addicts, and can take anything to extremes.
The difference of course is that not everyone drinks alchohol to obtain a buzz. I enjoy a glass of wine from time to time as well as a shot or two of whiskey. But seldom if ever do I feel the effects of the alchohol. Not true of marijuana users. The sole purpose for smoking pot is to get high. The buzz is everything. Quality of marijuana is judged on it's appearance and smell but ultimately it is judged on its 'high'.
QUOTE
We are responsible. It is something that comes after everything important in my life is done. I study, do all my work at home and in school. Never have I heard someone complain to my parents about my behaviour. Not the stereotypical drug user, would you say?
I would say that you are the stereotypical marijuana user. You say it 'comes after everything important in my life is done', and while I don't doubt that is true what you fail to mention is that it always comes. Tell us all that you do not smoke marijuana every day. Tell us that when you don't have any you just shrug your shoulders and say, 'Oh well, someday more will come my way'. Tell us that you don't go looking for it.
QUOTE(joc @ Jan 27 2006, 10:23 AM) [snapback]1037952[/snapback]
The difference of course is that not everyone drinks alchohol to obtain a buzz. I enjoy a glass of wine from time to time as well as a shot or two of whiskey. But seldom if ever do I feel the effects of the alchohol. Not true of marijuana users. The sole purpose for smoking pot is to get high. The buzz is everything. Quality of marijuana is judged on it's appearance and smell but ultimately it is judged on its 'high'.
Excellent point joc. But, while getting a high is obviously one of the main factors, I feel there is a social element is involved. Myself and two or three of my close friends may get togheter on a weekend and smoke a joint. Often, we don't get much of a high like this, but it gives us an oppurtunity to socialize. We talk, listen to music...just have a good time. Of course, you don't need drugs to do this. But, if you are going to drink or smoke marijuana, isn't that as good of a way and reason?
QUOTE
I would say that you are the stereotypical marijuana user. You say it 'comes after everything important in my life is done', and while I don't doubt that is true what you fail to mention is that it always comes. Tell us all that you do not smoke marijuana every day. Tell us that when you don't have any you just shrug your shoulders and say, 'Oh well, someday more will come my way'. Tell us that you don't go looking for it.
I will make myself more clear. Does it always come? No! I don't smoke marijuna everyday. Last time I did was one night last weekend, then it was two weeks beofre that I did it one night. I am not always on the look out for drugs. Often, myself and my friends don't want to do anything like that in the weekends...we just want to hang out, and enjoy the time off before the week ahead.
Also, I very rarley have have marijuana...when I get it, I get a small amount, just enough for the night ahead. And when I do, I only spend $5 - $10...nevermore. Why? Because I don't want to be some strung out user who is always bumming cash. Often, I may save up some change for 2 or 3 weeks, so I can buy a small amount of marijuana, and not waste my money.
I'm as respnsible as I can be doing this...spending little money, never being a hassle for anyone else, and not coming home to face my parnets while stoned out of my head. THAT, is how it should be.
QUOTE
I'm as respnsible as I can be doing this...spending little money, never being a hassle for anyone else, and not coming home to face my parnets while stoned out of my head. THAT, is how it should be.
It is interesting that you would not want to go home and face your parents while under the influence of a drug that you believe should be legalized.
The reason you don't smoke everyday is simple economics. What happens when you are out on your own with a job, living in your own apartment or house? No one to look down at you when you come home stoned, you can even get stoned in your own abode, enough money to buy a significant quantity to 'last for a while' ?
Perhaps you are not the typical marijuana user (yet).
Let me therefore, for our audience, describe the typical marijuana user:
This is a person who lives for the high. Of course, work, school, etc. are important and this person may excel in all, but the focus of this person's life is ...after all the work is done...the relaxation part, the 'leisure' part of life; the 'getting high' part. This person 'rewards' himself for his 'hard work' by smoking pot. Eventually for most, the use of marijuana becomes not just an everyday event, but an 'all the time' event. The typical marijuana user will start out his or her day by getting stoned...not completely wasted, that falls into the same category as not wanting to be seen by your parents...your boss doesn't want to see you stoned either...so, a couple of little tokes to 'take the edge off'...and then off to work. Maybe at lunchtime, if possible, this person again has a couple of tokes...then in the evening after work is done it is time to get completely wasted.
The typical marijuana user's life revolves around marijuana. Birds of a feather flock together. The typical marijuana users friends are also users. When this person has a stash of his own, life is good. When that stash is depleted, restoring the supply is most important. It is here, where the typical user meets his psychological dependence head on. When the stash is gone and his friend's stash is gone...the hunt begins. It becomes a 'mission'. This is the point in the road where the typical user, if he hasn't already, is likely to come into contact with other, deadly, illicit drugs. If any argument at all can be made for the legalization of marijuana it would be in this situation. Were the drug legal, the user would then not be in a position of being introduced to other drugs as readily. However, it is a lame reason at best. The mere fact that the user's life revolves around getting high sets up the scenario for further drug use.
It is not logical that a drug that is so psychologically powerful be made legal to anyone and everyone who wishes to use it. Consider the following scenario:
The corner liquor store now sells marijuana because it has just been made legal. Restaurants begin opening up Marijuana Rooms. You walk into a nightclub and the smell of marijuana is prevalent before you even get out of the parking lot. Marijuana is suddenly everywhere you turn. Your neighbor is growing it in his backyard and inside on his coffee table. Everywhere you go you smell burning marijuana...and will this all go away eventually because it is just a fad? No! It will only become more prevalent due to the above mentioned reasons of psychological dependence. Now, it is 'accepted'. Where parents who smoked before might be inclined to keep it away from the kids, suddenly it isn't that big of a deal. Mom goes to work and forgets about the joint in the ashtray. Little Bobbie comes home from school and finds it. Now little Bobbie is getting high with his friends after school instead of doing his homework.
I don't want to be stoned in front of my parents = Our Great Nations don't want to be stoned in front of the eyes of the world.
Who cares if it is legal in Denmark? Since when did Denmark become a world power with a Capitalist economy in the trillions? Western Capitalist countries simply cannot afford to allow the use of marijuana to become prevalent culture. Doing so will not only rip the fabric of society, it will eventually destroy society itself. The wheels of Capitalism are greased with inventive ideas...not stoned misconceptions.
QUOTE
The reason you don't smoke everyday is simple economics. What happens when you are out on your own with a job, living in your own apartment or house? No one to look down at you when you come home stoned, you can even get stoned in your own abode, enough money to buy a significant quantity to 'last for a while' ?
Actually, with two or three dollars I could easily be smoking pot everyday. Why not?because I am not the stereotypical stoner. It is not that important, and crucial to my everyday life that I NEED to do it everyday. Like I said before, I use every couple of weeks. But don't confuse wanting to do something with addiction.
QUOTE
Perhaps you are not the typical marijuana user (yet).
Let me therefore, for our audience, describe the typical marijuana user:
This is a person who lives for the high. Of course, work, school, etc. are important and this person may excel in all, but the focus of this person's life is ...after all the work is done...the relaxation part, the 'leisure' part of life; the 'getting high' part. This person 'rewards' himself for his 'hard work' by smoking pot. Eventually for most, the use of marijuana becomes not just an everyday event, but an 'all the time' event. The typical marijuana user will start out his or her day by getting stoned...not completely wasted, that falls into the same category as not wanting to be seen by your parents...your boss doesn't want to see you stoned either...so, a couple of little tokes to 'take the edge off'...and then off to work. Maybe at lunchtime, if possible, this person again has a couple of tokes...then in the evening after work is done it is time to get completely wasted.
Let me therefore, for our audience, describe the typical marijuana user:
This is a person who lives for the high. Of course, work, school, etc. are important and this person may excel in all, but the focus of this person's life is ...after all the work is done...the relaxation part, the 'leisure' part of life; the 'getting high' part. This person 'rewards' himself for his 'hard work' by smoking pot. Eventually for most, the use of marijuana becomes not just an everyday event, but an 'all the time' event. The typical marijuana user will start out his or her day by getting stoned...not completely wasted, that falls into the same category as not wanting to be seen by your parents...your boss doesn't want to see you stoned either...so, a couple of little tokes to 'take the edge off'...and then off to work. Maybe at lunchtime, if possible, this person again has a couple of tokes...then in the evening after work is done it is time to get completely wasted.
What you describe, is once again, the stereotypical addict. But, will I be like that? NO! That is irresponsible. I would never so anything that could jeopardize my career...whatever it may turn out to be. Doing that, is just stupid. These people shouldn't represent users as a whole. Thats like saying that the Muslim extremists represent all Muslims...not only is it false, but it is unfair.
It is not logical that a drug that is so psychologically powerful be made legal to anyone and everyone who wishes to use it. Consider the following scenario:
QUOTE
The corner liquor store now sells marijuana because it has just been made legal. Restaurants begin opening up Marijuana Rooms. You walk into a nightclub and the smell of marijuana is prevalent before you even get out of the parking lot. Marijuana is suddenly everywhere you turn. Your neighbor is growing it in his backyard and inside on his coffee table. Everywhere you go you smell burning marijuana...and will this all go away eventually because it is just a fad? No! It will only become more prevalent due to the above mentioned reasons of psychological dependence. Now, it is 'accepted'. Where parents who smoked before might be inclined to keep it away from the kids, suddenly it isn't that big of a deal. Mom goes to work and forgets about the joint in the ashtray. Little Bobbie comes home from school and finds it. Now little Bobbie is getting high with his friends after school instead of doing his homework.
Honestly, do you think that people's views about it are going to change that dramatically. The people who were against it when it was illegal are not going to start toking 24/7 because it is legal. Thinking that is just....idiotic. Parents are still going to push there moral values on there kids, and tell them that smoking pot is bad, and they shouldn't do it, or they should at least wait until they are older to do it.
I think that marijuana laws will be close to current cigarette and alchohol laws. You aren't aloud to smoke in bars...well, at least you can't here in Canada. Why should it be any different for marijuana. If people don't want to be around marijuana, then they shouldn't walk into a bar and be over whelmed by the smell. If marijuana was indeed legalized, then us users...the responsible ones...will be going to places out of the way. Not for fear of being persecuted, but so we won't be bothering anyone. And THAT, is how it should be.
QUOTE
I don't want to be stoned in front of my parents = Our Great Nations don't want to be stoned in front of the eyes of the world.
Who cares if it is legal in Denmark? Since when did Denmark become a world power with a Capitalist economy in the trillions? Western Capitalist countries simply cannot afford to allow the use of marijuana to become prevalent culture. Doing so will not only rip the fabric of society, it will eventually destroy society itself. The wheels of Capitalism are greased with inventive ideas...not stoned misconceptions.
Who cares if it is legal in Denmark? Since when did Denmark become a world power with a Capitalist economy in the trillions? Western Capitalist countries simply cannot afford to allow the use of marijuana to become prevalent culture. Doing so will not only rip the fabric of society, it will eventually destroy society itself. The wheels of Capitalism are greased with inventive ideas...not stoned misconceptions.
What I said above holds true to this to. Will it destroy the fabric of our society? No, unless everyone decides to forget there beliefs, which I don't see happening soon...
QUOTE
What you describe, is once again, the stereotypical addict. But, will I be like that? NO! That is irresponsible. I would never so anything that could jeopardize my career...whatever it may turn out to be. Doing that, is just stupid. These people shouldn't represent users as a whole. Thats like saying that the Muslim extremists represent all Muslims...not only is it false, but it is unfair.
So, we therefore conclude that you are not the stereo-typical consumer of marijuana.
When considering whether or not marijuana should be legal, are we then to employee 'your' particular example of usage and discard the stereo-typical user? What does the word stereo-type mean? It more refers to the 'majority' of a certain thing rather than to the minority. (For some reason I am now curious how many Muslim extremists smoke marijuana compared with non-extremist Muslims. )
Marijuana is inextricably linked to the more deadly drugs; Heroin, Meth-amphetamine, Cocaine to name a few. It is linked for good reason. While marijuana may not be lethal, it is indeed harmful. It is harmful not only to the user in terms of health related issues, which I would concur is the responsibility of the individual and not the government, but it is also harmful to society as a whole. Society is harmed when it's infrastructure is weakened and legalizing marijuana would weaken that infrastructure. Not the infrastructure of highways and bridges, but of the focus and determination and fortitude of a people. Marijuana robs the user of motivation in the market place. While you may not be 'typical' of marijuana users, it is my experience that the decrease in motivation and excellence is fact and not mere speculation on my part.
I have known hundreds of marijuana users and the potential for excellence is indeed diminished with continued use.
If one's individual potential remains only that..potential...the consequences are on the back of that individual, however; if the potential for a nation remains only potential, the consequences are enormous and are felt by user and non-user alike. In this day and age of push-button everything and Nations at war, the last thing we need is for Potential to yield unsatisfactory results. Legalizing marijuana will not be good for the countries that take that route in the long run.
QUOTE(joc @ Feb 10 2006, 01:31 AM) [snapback]1056265[/snapback]
So, we therefore conclude that you are not the stereo-typical consumer of marijuana.
When considering whether or not marijuana should be legal, are we then to employee 'your' particular example of usage and discard the stereo-typical user? What does the word stereo-type mean? It more refers to the 'majority' of a certain thing rather than to the minority. (For some reason I am now curious how many Muslim extremists smoke marijuana compared with non-extremist Muslims. )
Actually a stereotype is, according to Meriam Webster Online:
QUOTE
something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified
So, it is not the majority, but more of a generalized, ignorant view.
Joc, I would like to direct your attention to NORML's site. NORML, is the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. One of the things you stated, which is commenly said, is that marijuana is a gateway drug.
QUOTE
Critics claim that marijuana is a "gateway drug." How do you respond to this charge?
There is no conclusive evidence that the effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent use of other illicit drugs. Preliminary animal studies alleging that marijuana "primed" the brain for other drug-taking behavior have not been replicated, nor are they supported by epidemiological human data. Statistically, for every 104 Americans who have tried marijuana, there is only one regular user of cocaine, and less than one user of heroin. Marijuana is clearly a "terminus" rather than a gateway for the overwhelming majority of marijuana smokers.
For those minority of marijuana smokers who do graduate to harder substances, it is marijuana prohibition -- which forces users to associate with the illicit drug black market -- rather than the use of marijuana itself, that often serves as a doorway to the world of hard drugs. The more users become integrated in an environment where, apart from cannabis, hard drugs can also be obtained, the greater the chances they will experiment with harder drugs.
In Holland, where politicians decided over 25 years ago to separate marijuana from the illicit drug market by permitting coffee shops all over the country to sell small amounts of marijuana to adults, individuals use marijuana and other drugs at rates less than half of their American counterparts.
There is no conclusive evidence that the effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent use of other illicit drugs. Preliminary animal studies alleging that marijuana "primed" the brain for other drug-taking behavior have not been replicated, nor are they supported by epidemiological human data. Statistically, for every 104 Americans who have tried marijuana, there is only one regular user of cocaine, and less than one user of heroin. Marijuana is clearly a "terminus" rather than a gateway for the overwhelming majority of marijuana smokers.
For those minority of marijuana smokers who do graduate to harder substances, it is marijuana prohibition -- which forces users to associate with the illicit drug black market -- rather than the use of marijuana itself, that often serves as a doorway to the world of hard drugs. The more users become integrated in an environment where, apart from cannabis, hard drugs can also be obtained, the greater the chances they will experiment with harder drugs.
In Holland, where politicians decided over 25 years ago to separate marijuana from the illicit drug market by permitting coffee shops all over the country to sell small amounts of marijuana to adults, individuals use marijuana and other drugs at rates less than half of their American counterparts.
LINK to quote
The parts I have bolded are significant. No conclusive evidence. Look at Holland..if marijuana was indeed the gateway drug it is made out to be, wouldn't you assume that there would be more people doing these "hard drugs" ?
As we all know, those found in possesion or selling marijuana are usually arrested and charged. Ever wonder how much money is spent on busting people who buy/sell pot?
( The following quotes taken from HERE.)
QUOTE
60,000 individuals are behind bars for marijuana offenses at a cost to taxpayers of $1.2 billion per year.
REFERENCE: Marijuana Arrests and Incarceration in the United States. 1999. The Federation of American Scientists' Drug Policy Analysis Bulletin.
Taxpayers annually spend between $7.5 billion and $10 billion arresting and prosecuting individuals for marijuana violations. Almost 90 percent of these arrests are for marijuana possession only.
REFERENCE: NORML. 1997. Still Crazy After All These Years: Marijuana Prohibition 1937-1997: A report prepared by the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) on the occasion of the Sixtieth anniversary of the adoption of the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937. Washington, DC; Federal Bureau of Investigation's combined Uniform Crime Reports: Crime in the United States (1990-2000): Table: Arrest for Drug Abuse Violations. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington, DC.
REFERENCE: Marijuana Arrests and Incarceration in the United States. 1999. The Federation of American Scientists' Drug Policy Analysis Bulletin.
Taxpayers annually spend between $7.5 billion and $10 billion arresting and prosecuting individuals for marijuana violations. Almost 90 percent of these arrests are for marijuana possession only.
REFERENCE: NORML. 1997. Still Crazy After All These Years: Marijuana Prohibition 1937-1997: A report prepared by the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) on the occasion of the Sixtieth anniversary of the adoption of the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937. Washington, DC; Federal Bureau of Investigation's combined Uniform Crime Reports: Crime in the United States (1990-2000): Table: Arrest for Drug Abuse Violations. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington, DC.
Now, if we simply decriminalize posession to even a certain ammount, how much money do you think you, the tax payers, and the American government would save? As an example...
QUOTE
The state of California saved nearly $1 billion dollars from 1976 to 1985 by decriminalizing the personal possession of one ounce of marijuana, according to a study of the state justice department budget.
REFERENCE: M. Aldrich and T. Mikuriya. 1988. Savings in California marijuana law enforcement costs attributable to the Moscone Act of 1976. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 20: 75-81.
REFERENCE: M. Aldrich and T. Mikuriya. 1988. Savings in California marijuana law enforcement costs attributable to the Moscone Act of 1976. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 20: 75-81.
$1 Billion! Just from decriminalizing pot to a certain ammount. If this was done nation wide, think of the money that could be saved!
QUOTE
New Mexico's 2001 state-commissioned Drug Policy Advisory Group determined that marijuana decriminalization "will result in greater availability of resources to respond to more serious crimes without any increased risks to public safety."
REFERENCE: New Mexico Governor's Drug Policy Advisory Group. 2001. Report and Recommendations to the Governor's Office. State Capitol: Santa Fe.
REFERENCE: New Mexico Governor's Drug Policy Advisory Group. 2001. Report and Recommendations to the Governor's Office. State Capitol: Santa Fe.
This is what I've been saying. If we legalize this simple plant, we can divert our focus to more important things...like keeping sex offenders off the streets, and stopping the gun and gang violence we hear so much about.
Just some information for you all to consider...
QUOTE
Joc, I would like to direct your attention to NORML's site. NORML, is the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. One of the things you stated, which is commenly said, is that marijuana is a gateway drug.
Quoting from the NORML Bible is like asking Idaho potato farmers if mashed potatoes are any good. Of course NORML is going to take the approach that marijuana isn't harmful. NORML is an organization who’s very existence is born of a lie. NORML has a philosophy that the best way to legalize pot is to do so from the 'medical marijuana' side of the street. NORML is behind all the 'medical marijuana' reform laws in California. But NORML isn't being truthful about its approach. Medical marijuana is a scam of NORML designed to creep legislation into existence that will eventually legalize the drug.
QUOTE
The state of California saved nearly $1 billion dollars from 1976 to 1985 by decriminalizing the personal possession of one ounce of marijuana, according to a study of the state justice department budget.
So, legalizing drugs equal higher State tax revenue due to not prosecuting drug crimes. Well, hell, if that's the case let's legalize murder, rape and burglary and then the bloody state won't have to prosecute anyone...look at all the money we'll save then! Simply legalizing something because the state can save a few bucks is a dangerous road to go down. The next thing you know California will have the Marijuana plant as it's state flower...and they can tax the heck out of it and then look how much money they will have saved.
QUOTE
This is what I've been saying. If we legalize this simple plant, we can divert our focus to more important things...like keeping sex offenders off the streets, and stopping the gun and gang violence we hear so much about.
There simply is not a link between ability to fight crime and marijuana being illegal. Legalizing pot is not going to decrease either child molesters nor gangsters. And legalizing pot won't sharpen focus in other areas of crime. It is a myth...somewhat along the lines of how marijuana has no harmful effects to the user or society.
A quick reminder that we will now need a conclusion from each of you.
Conclusion comming either today or tommorow....sorry for taking so long, but I've been rather sick lately.
TFG, We are now waiting for your conclusion. 
My apologies.
CONCLUSION
For the purposes of this concluding paragraph, I will not specificly take issue with anything Joc has said, but I will have a few final words about the topic at hand.
Let me ask you, Joc and the judges, why is marijuana illegal? For thousands of years it has been considered sacred by many tribes, cultures and religions...famously the Hindu and Rastafarian people. In the early 19th century it was used as a pain killer, until the development of such drugs as aspirin. Even now it is used by cancer patients, people suffereing from glaucoma, and people suffering from chronic pain, as a natural alternative to things like morphine.
Marijuana isn't the evil thing that it has been portrayed to be. I am going to throw an idea out in the open now. Maybe the worse thing about marijuana is that it IS illegal. There is no one regulating what goes into it, or how it is sold. If we devoted some money to properly organizing an agency for the sale, production, and regulation of marijuana, think how much safer things would be.
I cannot see any reason why marijuana is illegal, when alchohol is legal. Granted, they are different, but if anything, alchohol's intoxication is worse...that is, you have less control over what you are doing then when stoned. When people want to get stoned, they don't get stoned to the point of passing out, or staggering around and throwing up. If we wanted that, we would get drunk. Smoking marijuana is more...spiritual. When stoned, we are more calm, relaxed, peacfull, open-minded...how many cases do you hear of stoner fights? Now think about the number of drunk fights and accidents you hear about.
I would like to draw your attention to a list of "Principles for Responsible Cannabis Users"... taking, once again from NORML's site.
LINK
These guidlines outlines how marijuana should be used...responsibly.
Before I finsih up, I want you to download, and listen to a song. The song is "Burn One Down", and sums up how us responsible users feel, and how the attitude of the general populus should be.
"Burn One Down"
Let us burn one from end to end,
And pass it over to me my friend.
Burn it long, we'll burn it slow,
To light me up before I go.
If you don't like my fire, then don't come around,
'cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes, I'm gonna burn one down.
My choice is what I choose to do,
And if I'm causing no harm, it shouldn't bother you.
Your choice is who you choose to be,
And if you're causin' no harm, then you're alright with me.
If you don't like my fire, then don't come around,
'cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes, I'm gonna burn one down.
Herb the gift from the earth,
And what's from the earth is of the greatest worth.
So before you knock it try it first,
Oh, you'll see it's a blessing and not a curse.
If you don't like my fire, then don't come around,
'cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes, I'm gonna burn one, oohhh.
LINK TO LYRICS
Judges, I want you to read through this with an open mind. I want you to think to yourselfs "Is Marijuana as bad as they say?". Hopefully, you will see that it really isn't that bad.
I want to thank Division Bell and the many others whom suggested this topic. I want to thank Lottie and AztecInca for organizing this, and most importantly, I want to thank Joc. Joc, it's been an honour debating you, and I wish you the best of luck.
Off to you, Joc!
CONCLUSION
For the purposes of this concluding paragraph, I will not specificly take issue with anything Joc has said, but I will have a few final words about the topic at hand.
Let me ask you, Joc and the judges, why is marijuana illegal? For thousands of years it has been considered sacred by many tribes, cultures and religions...famously the Hindu and Rastafarian people. In the early 19th century it was used as a pain killer, until the development of such drugs as aspirin. Even now it is used by cancer patients, people suffereing from glaucoma, and people suffering from chronic pain, as a natural alternative to things like morphine.
Marijuana isn't the evil thing that it has been portrayed to be. I am going to throw an idea out in the open now. Maybe the worse thing about marijuana is that it IS illegal. There is no one regulating what goes into it, or how it is sold. If we devoted some money to properly organizing an agency for the sale, production, and regulation of marijuana, think how much safer things would be.
I cannot see any reason why marijuana is illegal, when alchohol is legal. Granted, they are different, but if anything, alchohol's intoxication is worse...that is, you have less control over what you are doing then when stoned. When people want to get stoned, they don't get stoned to the point of passing out, or staggering around and throwing up. If we wanted that, we would get drunk. Smoking marijuana is more...spiritual. When stoned, we are more calm, relaxed, peacfull, open-minded...how many cases do you hear of stoner fights? Now think about the number of drunk fights and accidents you hear about.
I would like to draw your attention to a list of "Principles for Responsible Cannabis Users"... taking, once again from NORML's site.
QUOTE
I. Adults Only
Cannabis consumption is for adults only. It is irresponsible to provide cannabis to children.
Many things and activities are suitable for young people, but others absolutely are not. Children do not drive cars, enter into contracts, or marry, and they must not use drugs. As it is unrealistic to demand lifetime abstinence from cars, contracts and marriage, however, it is unrealistic to expect lifetime abstinence from all intoxicants, including alcohol. Rather, our expectation and hope for young people is that they grow up to be responsible adults. Our obligation to them is to demonstrate what that means.
II. No Driving
The responsible cannabis consumer does not operate a motor vehicle or other dangerous machinery while impaired by cannabis, nor (like other responsible citizens) while impaired by any other substance or condition, including some medicines and fatigue.
Although cannabis is said by most experts to be safer than alcohol and many prescription drugs with motorists, responsible cannabis consumers never operate motor vehicles in an impaired condition. Public safety demands not only that impaired drivers be taken off the road, but that objective measures of impairment be developed and used, rather than chemical testing.
III. Set and Setting
The responsible cannabis user will carefully consider his/her set and setting, regulating use accordingly.
"Set" refers to the consumer's values, attitudes, experience and personality, and "setting" means the consumer's physical and social circumstances. The responsible cannabis consumer will be vigilant as to conditions -- time, place, mood, etc. -- and does not hesitate to say "no" when those conditions are not conducive to a safe, pleasant and/or productive experience.
IV. Resist Abuse
Use of cannabis, to the extent that it impairs health, personal development or achievement, is abuse, to be resisted by responsible cannabis users.
Abuse means harm. Some cannabis use is harmful; most is not. That which is harmful should be discouraged; that which is not need not be.
Wars have been waged in the name of eradicating "drug abuse", but instead of focusing on abuse, enforcement measures have been diluted by targeting all drug use, whether abusive or not. If marijuana abuse is to be targeted, it is essential that clear standards be developed to identify it.
V. Respect Rights of Others
The responsible cannabis user does not violate the rights of others, observes accepted standards of courtesy and public propriety, and respects the preferences of those who wish to avoid cannabis entirely.
No one may violate the rights of others, and no substance use excuses any such violation. Regardless of the legal status of cannabis, responsible users will adhere to emerging tobacco smoking protocols in public and private places.
Adopted by the NORML Board of Directors
February 3, 1996
Washington, DC
Cannabis consumption is for adults only. It is irresponsible to provide cannabis to children.
Many things and activities are suitable for young people, but others absolutely are not. Children do not drive cars, enter into contracts, or marry, and they must not use drugs. As it is unrealistic to demand lifetime abstinence from cars, contracts and marriage, however, it is unrealistic to expect lifetime abstinence from all intoxicants, including alcohol. Rather, our expectation and hope for young people is that they grow up to be responsible adults. Our obligation to them is to demonstrate what that means.
II. No Driving
The responsible cannabis consumer does not operate a motor vehicle or other dangerous machinery while impaired by cannabis, nor (like other responsible citizens) while impaired by any other substance or condition, including some medicines and fatigue.
Although cannabis is said by most experts to be safer than alcohol and many prescription drugs with motorists, responsible cannabis consumers never operate motor vehicles in an impaired condition. Public safety demands not only that impaired drivers be taken off the road, but that objective measures of impairment be developed and used, rather than chemical testing.
III. Set and Setting
The responsible cannabis user will carefully consider his/her set and setting, regulating use accordingly.
"Set" refers to the consumer's values, attitudes, experience and personality, and "setting" means the consumer's physical and social circumstances. The responsible cannabis consumer will be vigilant as to conditions -- time, place, mood, etc. -- and does not hesitate to say "no" when those conditions are not conducive to a safe, pleasant and/or productive experience.
IV. Resist Abuse
Use of cannabis, to the extent that it impairs health, personal development or achievement, is abuse, to be resisted by responsible cannabis users.
Abuse means harm. Some cannabis use is harmful; most is not. That which is harmful should be discouraged; that which is not need not be.
Wars have been waged in the name of eradicating "drug abuse", but instead of focusing on abuse, enforcement measures have been diluted by targeting all drug use, whether abusive or not. If marijuana abuse is to be targeted, it is essential that clear standards be developed to identify it.
V. Respect Rights of Others
The responsible cannabis user does not violate the rights of others, observes accepted standards of courtesy and public propriety, and respects the preferences of those who wish to avoid cannabis entirely.
No one may violate the rights of others, and no substance use excuses any such violation. Regardless of the legal status of cannabis, responsible users will adhere to emerging tobacco smoking protocols in public and private places.
Adopted by the NORML Board of Directors
February 3, 1996
Washington, DC
LINK
These guidlines outlines how marijuana should be used...responsibly.
Before I finsih up, I want you to download, and listen to a song. The song is "Burn One Down", and sums up how us responsible users feel, and how the attitude of the general populus should be.
QUOTE
"Burn One Down"
Let us burn one from end to end,
And pass it over to me my friend.
Burn it long, we'll burn it slow,
To light me up before I go.
If you don't like my fire, then don't come around,
'cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes, I'm gonna burn one down.
My choice is what I choose to do,
And if I'm causing no harm, it shouldn't bother you.
Your choice is who you choose to be,
And if you're causin' no harm, then you're alright with me.
If you don't like my fire, then don't come around,
'cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes, I'm gonna burn one down.
Herb the gift from the earth,
And what's from the earth is of the greatest worth.
So before you knock it try it first,
Oh, you'll see it's a blessing and not a curse.
If you don't like my fire, then don't come around,
'cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes, I'm gonna burn one, oohhh.
LINK TO LYRICS
Judges, I want you to read through this with an open mind. I want you to think to yourselfs "Is Marijuana as bad as they say?". Hopefully, you will see that it really isn't that bad.
I want to thank Division Bell and the many others whom suggested this topic. I want to thank Lottie and AztecInca for organizing this, and most importantly, I want to thank Joc. Joc, it's been an honour debating you, and I wish you the best of luck.
Off to you, Joc!
Joc your conclusion please!
El Conclusion!
I will concede that alcohol is worse than marijuana. That is hardly any reason to legalize marijuana. Does something have to be 'deadly' for it to be illegal? Marijuana isn't deadly, but legalizing it does open some doors I would just as soon keep closed. If you legalize marijuana you will be opening the door of legitimacy for the drug cartels. The government will tax the product and in effect will be 'profiting' from the drug cartels.
Marijuana must remain illegal. Perhaps decriminalized to the point where users are not given the same sentences as heroin users, but to legalize it is just a huge mistake. Once you open that door it can never be shut again. Consider when they made alcohol illegal in the US. They called it Prohibition and crime and death surrounded alcohol. Crime and death already surround marijuana. Once we allow it to be legal, and then we discover that it was a very bad idea...there will be no turning back.
Just consider this final point:
It is NOT a mistake to keep marijuana illegal.
It very well be a very big mistake to legalize it.
Thank you for listening. Thank you Too Far Gone for presenting an interesting argument for legalization. Thank you Lottie and Aztec for continuing this debate to its conclusion.
I will concede that alcohol is worse than marijuana. That is hardly any reason to legalize marijuana. Does something have to be 'deadly' for it to be illegal? Marijuana isn't deadly, but legalizing it does open some doors I would just as soon keep closed. If you legalize marijuana you will be opening the door of legitimacy for the drug cartels. The government will tax the product and in effect will be 'profiting' from the drug cartels.
Marijuana must remain illegal. Perhaps decriminalized to the point where users are not given the same sentences as heroin users, but to legalize it is just a huge mistake. Once you open that door it can never be shut again. Consider when they made alcohol illegal in the US. They called it Prohibition and crime and death surrounded alcohol. Crime and death already surround marijuana. Once we allow it to be legal, and then we discover that it was a very bad idea...there will be no turning back.
Just consider this final point:
It is NOT a mistake to keep marijuana illegal.
It very well be a very big mistake to legalize it.
Thank you for listening. Thank you Too Far Gone for presenting an interesting argument for legalization. Thank you Lottie and Aztec for continuing this debate to its conclusion.
Thank you to both of you for an interesting debate!
I will now hand this over to our lovely judges!
I will now hand this over to our lovely judges!
A great Debate.
It’s been a while since I have used so many 10’s while judging! Very close between the two of you… For me it was a cliff-hanger right up until the conclusion!
Debator 1: joc
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 10
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 9
Total: 37
Debator 2: TooFarGone
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 10
Style: 9
Persuasiveness: 9
Total: 38
It’s been a while since I have used so many 10’s while judging! Very close between the two of you… For me it was a cliff-hanger right up until the conclusion!
Debator 1: joc
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 10
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 9
Total: 37
Debator 2: TooFarGone
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 10
Style: 9
Persuasiveness: 9
Total: 38
Ah! What! Oh its time to judge! Cool man where’s the ash tray I got a job to do fellas! 
Seriously good job both of you could have been a few more references on both parts but I felt you both spoke from conviction, and I don’t mean from the legal sense.
Debator 1: joc
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 8
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 8
Total: 34
Debator 2: TooFarGone
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 9
Style: 9
Persuasiveness: 7
Total: 35
Seriously good job both of you could have been a few more references on both parts but I felt you both spoke from conviction, and I don’t mean from the legal sense.
Debator 1: joc
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 8
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 8
Total: 34
Debator 2: TooFarGone
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 9
Style: 9
Persuasiveness: 7
Total: 35
It has come to the attention of Lottie, Jen and myself that generally when it comes to debate judging there are only three judges who always judge. Toofargone is one of those judges. So therfore I will be the third and final judge as I was once a debate judge.
There is no need for concern over lack of judges as soon there will be more appointed as the league section most definately will require a larger amount of judges.
Debator 1: joc
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 8
Style: 7
Persuasiveness: 8
Total: 33
Debator 2: TooFarGone
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 8
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 8
Total: 34
Joc finishes this debate with a final score of 34.6
Toofargone wins this debate with a final score of 35.6
Well done, it was trually an entertaining debate!
There is no need for concern over lack of judges as soon there will be more appointed as the league section most definately will require a larger amount of judges.
Debator 1: joc
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 8
Style: 7
Persuasiveness: 8
Total: 33
Debator 2: TooFarGone
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 8
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 8
Total: 34
Joc finishes this debate with a final score of 34.6
Toofargone wins this debate with a final score of 35.6
Well done, it was trually an entertaining debate!
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