Hunting so should not hav bin banned. pple still hunt. they just take a bird of prey der!
hunting has provided man and beast with exercise for centuries as well as providing a solution to a pest problem.

The point is that people take it too far and use it as a sport causing the animal to feel unnecessary pain and suffering..i agree some animal populations need to be kept under control but not to the extent of being a poor excuse for a sport

There is a difference between hunting for food to feed your family and then there is those that hunt for fun....

I think it should been banned for those that do it for fun, as for the man that does it to feed him and his family..it's called survival!

With suburban spawl here in Southern New Jersey and the lack of predators that once roamed the area. Deer and wild turkey are overly populated and being pushed into a crush. I do not hunt here myself but the deer population in my woods and on my farm is over the top and I have asked hunters whom I trust to come in and thin the herd. I do not allow them to take young bucks just old bucks and does.
I also have a flock of wild turkeys (who at one time were almost extinct here) who come into my dooryard but they eat sandfleas and ticks so they can stay but I have heard that they overran a development and became a nusiance. But I don't like spawl so they should learn to live with it.

There is good and bad in it. I guess it depends on the situation.

Lapi'che

I have been around hunting all my life... and actually hunted myself quite a bit.

Where I am from... the deer population is so big... that the deer are getting smaller and sicker every year... and it is actually healthy for their population to survive, to have hunters kill off some each year.

Actually in the last few years deer season has been expanded or doe season has been expanded.

My dad called to tell me he killed a pretty big buck last week... and even though he doesn't need the meat... there is a man that he knows and he has a really big family and they are not well off.. so my Dad always takes the kills he doesn't keep for himself to this man.

My Dad never wastes any meat... and makes him feel good he can help out a family in need.

I don't think a hunting ban will happen any time soon in the South!

Where was hunting banned???

I just got back from the woods (have to watch NASCAR now ) and it's a great sport, keeps the population of deer down so they don't starve out during the long winter, gives you the chance of saving hundreds of dollars because of the meat you take, and it's a great way to get to know the outdoors!

Sure, some just go out for the big buck for sport but that's still part of the population control. The needless suffering is going down because of the increase in using scopes so they actually kill them with less shots.

Also, think of all the money the hunting season brings to businesses. You need gear, food and gas.

I find kangaroo culling in Austalia a bit of a joke. They kill the native animals because they pull down fences for the cattle. Sometimes it is a mixed up world, but I also recognise that man has made it unbalanced and sometimes needs to work to fix it.

The kangaroo meat is usually used for pet food, and not generally eaten by the hunters.

The US imports some kangaroo meat... they have it sometimes in the store. I love kangaroo sticks. Very tasty animal.

That is mans fault not the animals.

I used to hunt when I was growing up, but I don't anymore. I don't care for venison so ne reason to. If a person hunts for food, no prob. But those idiots who hunt for trophies? That should be banned.

Over in Britian. Although as pinklesby said people are still doing it, with it not being policed that effectively and even if people are caught and charged they just go back out and do it again.

Hunting for fun just sickens me, but some hunting must be done to control populations of certain species of animals such as deer over in the US which I have no real problem with. If people hunt for food to survive that is also fine in my books but to hunt just for fun is something that I cannot possibly ever fathom or understand. Its just cold-blooded murder in my opinion.

I've never been hunting, but i did, and still do support it. People were going on about how the foxes were suffering, but what about our neighbours livelyhood when a fox got into his hen house and killed fifty of his chickens one night? And what about the child at work who was distraught when a Fox got at her rabbit and Guinie-pig? And lets not forget the hundreds of Hounds which are currently being put to sleep because they are no longer needed, and no one wants them as pets.

Legitimate hunts have always been careful to make sure that the suffering for the Fox is minimal. At least it stands some chance with a pack of dogs, whereas with a gun it will either face certain death, or be injured and limp of to die slowly and painfully somewhere.

isnt there another hunting thread in hobbies and interests.....

Yeah... this thread WAS about the BANNING of hunting but the mods felt the need to move it down to hobbies... So I guess if your hobbie is banning hunting... here you go.

......

I am forming a new group PETE (People Eating Tasty Everythin)

Were going to country PETA protests

Lol just joking, im around hunting alot and i couldnt care less, unless its over hunted or trophy hunting. If you eat what you kill go ahead, be my guest. Humans are becoming over populated and are getting smaller and sicker each year, WHOS UP FOR A PEOPLE HUNT!!! lol also joking

~Thanato

Peta = People Eat Tasty Animals

I won't mind some people hunting... Where would you go to get the tags? Could be like the "Running Man" where they hunt them down.

exactly. Humans have killed off all the natural predators, so now we are stuck with overpopulated herd animals.




This is possibly the stupidest rationalization I've ever heard. This is modern times, we can build structures to protect our pets and farm animals. But because of a ban on hunting, people are going to destroy "hundreds of Hounds"? So the solution to having these dogs put to sleep is allowing this completely cruel, useless, and barbaric activity to continue?

How can these "legitimate" hunts guarantee ANY minimalism of suffering on the part of the fox?! This is an easier, better way to go, being ripped to pieces by a pack of dogs? Do you realize what you are saying?? This is a better alternative than shooting the animal? Jesus Christ, how about we not kill them to being with???

God, why can't people just be happy enjoy the wonders of this planet and stop trying to find ways to shoot it, burn it, pave it and pollute it?

Fox hunting is sick.

People can say its pest control all they want, but thats a lie. What part of pest control requires a group of men to dress up like their going to the circus and parade around the countryside for hours on end.
The dogs themselves show the true meaning of the hunt, in that its not pest control. If it was, the dogs would be bred for speed, to catch and kill the fox as quickly as possible, such as a Grey Hound. Rather Fox Hounds are bred for stamina, NOT speed. They are bred to keep the hunt going on for as long as possible by out lasting the fox, not outrunning it.

If it really was about pest control, then they'd be no idiots in red suits. They'd be no washing you're face in the foxes blood. And the dogs would actually have been bred for a quick kill. If it was really about pest control, you'd just have a marksman who could pick off weaker/sickly foxes from a mile off.

Furthermore, if its about pest control, why is it hunts imported mainland European foxes in to hunt when they had hunted the areas population into extinction? And why are they now taking holidays to France to hunt foxes in there?.... can't see how a French fox is threating UK chickens.

I 100% agree with everything Talon has said. Thank you for saying it clearly, and without the insults and profanity I was struggling against.

fox hunting is a little different to shooting a deer or kangaroo methinks

Talon and JennRose have either of you ever had a hamburger? Beef jerkey? Turkey? Ham? Bacon? etc etc. <---- Half of them are slaughtered and dont even get the benefit of being hunted. Please dont be a hypocrite. Like those hippy people who talk about keep the earth clean from pollution and then drive a car to work.

Don't be ridiculous . We don't hunt cows with dogs which arn't bred for the task they are supposed to do, then paint our faces in their blood as a right of passage. And neither do we bred foxes for food. There is no comparassion.


And also for the record, no, I do not eat hamburgers, Beef jerkey, Ham and Bacon. I haven't eaten any red meat for 13 years.

Hunting shouldn't be banned.
I remmeber back in Iraq, my dad and me used to hunt snakes, deers, rabbits and rats.
And used to eat them.
Rats are so tasty. mmmm...

Fox hunting is wow... I watched a hunt video a while ago (probably from peta or something) but it was brutal. An animal shouldn't have to go through that much suffering.

The point i was trying to make Jenrose and Talon, is that when you shoot a fox, you can't garauentee (sp!) That it will die. Dogs naturally hunt in packs, look at other animals in the wild, lions for example. They're gonna do what is natural to them. Humans have done this for such a long time that it almost SEEMS to be a natural part of survival.

You say that people don't NEED to kill the fox, but does the fox NEED to kill the chickens? And despite what you say about people being able to protect pets and livestock, a fox will quite happily spend all winter digging under a chicken pen, and will then kill every chicken it can, only taking one away with it to eat. At least most hunts will stop at one fox. That one fox could very easily destroy someones life by killing their livestock. I'm not just saying this to try and rationalise hunting, i've lived in the countryside my entire life and i've seen it happen.

And the hounds are being destroyed. They were bred purely for hunting, and every hunt has a huge number of these dogs, which are now no longer needed or wanted.

As for the painting the face thing, that actually doesn't happen anymore. I agree that it used to, but that was decades ago.

Not all hunts are like the ones that the PETA guys send round. Those videos are designed purely to brainwash people. PETA are also responsible for sabatuaging (sp) Hunts, making people fall off their horses and get seriously injured. They make loud noises and have even been known to actually try and push people off. Somethings wrong when a human being will do that to another human. It just makes them hypocrites.

I know i'm making enemies here, but how many of you have actually been to a hunt? I'm not a barbarian, as i'm sure some people will think, i'm simply putting across my beliefs. Animal cruelty is not on my list of fun things to do, but fox hunting is a traditional part of British society and thousands of years old. Look at the Matadores with their bull rings. Thats a traditional part of society in (I'm not sure, is it Mexico?) But thats not being banned. And that is extremly cruel.

No offense, buts thats rubbish. Dogs form packs to hunt LARGER aniomals will feed the entire pack such as a deer. It IS NOT natural for them to expend so much energy on a tiny animal which would feed only one or two.





Yes the fox needs to eat, and if farmers paid for better fencing then maybe the fox wouldn't get teh chickens. WE humans were the ones who decided to build farms in their territories, we have no right to then upset the balance of nature by exterminating them for following their natural instincts.





Which means you're bias. Don you think city-dwellers hate fox hunting because of some anti-countryside campaign? No, we don't. We hate it because we're looking at it from an object view. And we see hunting as they actions of cavemen.




Not very well, as I've already said, they are inequiped for hunting, they are build for staminia to make the foxes suffering last longer, not speed to catch it quickly.





Wrong. There was nationalout from city dwellers cry only a few years back when one those royal family scum (Harry or William, one or the other) had his face painted by Charlie in a hunt. We were told then we shouldn't interfere in countryside tradition, but we still remember it.
It still exists. Just because you don't do it means you can accord for all the hundreds of blood-crazed maniacs running around on horseback out there.




So? Foxes die in the hunt, a human being slightly injured doesn't seem as important next to a loss of life.




No, somethings wrong with a human being, when in 2005, they still get so much enjoyment out of torturing tiny animals.




And slavery, oppression of the working classes, female second class citizenship were also traditionals going back a thousand years, that make them right?




Yes it is cruel, and like fox hunting, all sane-thinking people think its sick and want it banned. But simply because another country doesn't ban a blood sport does mean we don't have too. Many third world countries still have rape legalised, does that mean the UK should still have it legalised too?

Oh, give me a break. Organizing a group of people to have one animal chased for hours and then brutally torn to pieces for absolutely no reason is in no way comparable. But for the record, I am a vegetarian.

What's your solution to either of those problems? Brutally kill whatever animal you feel like and continue unabated pollution fo the Earth. Yes, those sound like wonderful ideas.

So, because I may not be able to make a clean kill with my gun, I'll have it chased until it is exhausted and terrified in order to have it ripped to bloody bits. Huh. Yes, that is definitely more civilized and makes much more sense.



By that rationale, why don't we kill every single predatory animal, starting with house cats. Obviously they are only killing because they enjoy blood sport (no wait, that's just humans) and not because that is part of Nature. If a person's life is in danger of being ruined by one fox, then this person needs to invest in a better pen, and perhaps a guard dog. I grew up in the country myself, and my family raised turkeys, pigs and grew crops. You understand that you may lose some of that to wildlife, but that doesn't mean that every single non-domesticated animal should be brutally slaughtered bc there is a potential it may do harm.



Well then it sounds like the brutally is being expanded to domesticated animals as well. That's as horrible as detroying greyhounds after they are 3 or 4 years old bc they may not race as well. Terrible, but how does that justify continuing something even more brutal and bloody? It doesn't, and I don't know why slaughter is being looked at as an answer.



Well please add a link to a hunt where they all go out for a daily romp, then send the fox home with a pat on the head. Or even one hunt where at the end, after a quick dash, the fox is quickly and neatly dispatched. Hmm? Perhaps the pics and videos of the hunt being sent around by PETA are exactly what fox-hunting is all about: pointless violence.



Talon summed up the ideas behind why it's important to let go of some of these violent, useless "traditions", so I will let that point go. I've never been to a fox hunt, but we have an American version here of raccoon hunting that in some cases is exactly the same. The hounds chase the raccoon up the tree, and then the hunters either shoot it out or knock it out so the dogs can rip it to pieces. They do this solely for the purpose of having something to whoop and holler' at, and they can tell stories of how their dog "just layed into that 'coon". This is a tradition that I could very happily bid a not-so-fond farewell to.

This dispute no longer has anything to do with concern for animals, it has become a war of class.

What are you talking about? Are the hunters chasing people from different social levels with their dogs now instead of foxes? Are we only defending animals that attack the poor or rich? That statement makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah right we city dwellers are just nasty working class people trying to stop middle class country 'sports' because we're all part of a grand socialist conspiracy.

People from any class hunt... maybe as you go higher not as many (for whatever reason) but they're still people out there.

Not in England (apart from a small minority), not for sport anyway.

That's exactly what the pro-hunting prostesters were saying when there were all those demonstrations is London

Besides you talk about how people feel when foxes kill rabbits and how PETA knock people off their horses while totally forgetting that people on hunts have run across people's land, their dogs have ripped apart domestic animals and injured people. Also what about the anti-hunting protesters who have been run down and attacked by the horse mounted people on hunts?

All those arguments you suggested were invalid as people on the hunts do the same and worse!

Hunting with guns is completely different from hunting with a pack of dogs that hunt down their prey and then tear it apart alive! Just for sport!! This is sickening...

I, personally, can handle the concept of hunting with guns for survival, or culling, or for wild animals that have killed a human, such as crocs etc...at least the animal dies in a somewhat quick and humane manner.

So when a person goes into a predators natural environment and gets attacked and maybe killed by the croc or tiger for example that animal which was most likely just either defending its young or territory it should be killed. The animal is merely living and doing what it has always done, there is no evil in its actions just a desire to survive and live.

Ok, i'm not out to make enemies. I may not agree with your point of view, but i do respect it, and i hope that the same can be said the other way round.

This will me my last post on the subject, cos I really can't be bothered to try and make people see things from my point of view- everyones entitled to their opinion.

i will close with this: Fifty two percent of British people wanted to keep hunting, and the ban was forced through on a minority vote in parliment. I think this clearly shows how divided the nation is on the subject and no amount of arguing is going to do any good, as people have different up bringings and see things from different points of view.

I am not just walking away because i think i'm "Losing" I just don't want to waste my time trying to change peoples' minds. I feel that MOST hunts do things fairly and cleanly, and no ones going to stop me feeling that way.

Like i said, i don't want to make enemies.

You were obviously looking at bias results, most opinion polls actually put it at 75% who want rid of it, only 25% support it;


The Economist magazine poll;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1389913.stm


Mori Poll:

http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/general/default.aspx?oid=122055



http://www.animalsaustralia.org/default2.a...=1280&idL3=1534



www.ifaw.org/ifaw/dfiles/file_284.pdf



www.league.uk.com/politics/ general_political/public_opinion.htm


So, I don't know were you're figures come from

There is absolutely not one single redeeming value to fox hunting. Not one. I never speak out against game hunting as long as it is kept within legal limits and the hunter plans to eat the animal. Yes, I'm a vegetarian and I would never want to shoot a deer or rabbit or whatnot myself, but I see why it is done and though I don't like it, I support the hunter's right.

Trophy hunting and recreational hunting is barbaric, cruel and without merit. Animals that are left skinned or decapitated in a ditch have been brutally murdered. These poor foxes that are torn to pieces by hounds (that are usually half-starved by their owner to make them more aggressive) are victims of a senseless crime.

I don't care what sort of tradition it is, who supports it or how harmless a person may think it is, it is wrong and disgusting.