Many of us are critics of religion, concepts of God, etc. So let's put it on the line. If we could create a god to serve or govern all mankind, whatever we select for him to do, what characteristics would this god have? What types of powers? Would we credit all creation to him? Would he offer us a heaven or the condemnation to a hell? Would he have a son? Would he offer salvation? Would we include baptism, communion, confession or any of the institutions of current religions? Would we want churches?

Think about it and see what kind of god we can form amongst us.

I don't think it should be too deep. I'll pretend God is the universe, and since we are part of the universe, we are essentially God. We get power when we tap into the universe. There wouldn't be a heaven or hell, just reincarnation to learn certain lessons. No churches, no institutions, no religion. They're overly elaborate anyway.

Awwr just one? Not two? Male... female...? *snickerfits*

Ok.. ok... I can't perfect the perfection of the feline... Bast would do nicely. Or wait... am I excused because I do believe in several deities?

IMO I can't possibly come up with a way to decide who "god" should be to another, I think it would be beneficial to have certain attributes we aspire to embrace but this current parent style god has got to grow up IMO, this 2 year old diety has got to reach puberty, share his toys , aren't we all playing god anyways ??? Namaste Sheri

I like god the way he/she/it/they already is. But the most important quality to keep is equal balance. (equalvalent exchange; humankind can not gain anything.... )

IMHO, the god that I create, would be aloof and indefferent to its creations. Once created, the deity would remove itself from its creations with the reassusring words:
"Y'all on your own"
and
"Don't Panic"



good journey

And which way is that?

SC's Bast?
my non interfering deity?
good ole JC and the heavenly trio?

I like S.C.'s idea of a God and a Godess. And I like JMPD's idea of a non interfering God. Because if you wan't your children to learn the best thing you can do is let them.

God to me, would be everything. Every tiny moelcule even the ones that make up air and the spaces between stuff. God would be or infact to me is, life and light and dark and every tiny little infentisimal dust mote. It is worth honouring and worshipping, it would deserve sacred places for the children to reflect on how lucky we are because, we are. I would have churches/sacred places and I would possibly even make sacrifices of probably cake and wine but not goats, goats are very messy, I hear.

There would be reincarnation, there would be no religions. There would be no salvation, because there would be nothing to be saved from, no hell. There would be no baptism, because as you are allready a part of God's Earth, you wouldn't need to be initiated into the right group.


There would be no need to send a Son, allthough perhaps one or two wise people wouldn't go a stray. He would program us with a basic survival need which encouraged us to keep those close to us safe and warm and happy. Lest we find it harder to survive.

Well that's my God at least.

Where you learn that it's ok to enjoy yourself... Not afraid to explore your own body... explore the bodies of others...

Wine and cake parties sound good... Being able to celebrate the old festivals would be good too... to be reminded what it's like to be humans...

SC, one of these days we have to have a long chat.

If folks weren't so uptight about being 'proper', and actually acknowledged that we are animals (intelligence notwithstanding), and enjoyed themselves more, this would be a pretty descent palnet.

We live in constant hope.

Aahaha.. we do do we?

Maybe it would be. Respect eachother.. respect the planet... and have fun while doing it.

Ahhh SC I likey, perhaps we could right a book with snipets of wisedom in it just like that.

How's this one, Think Globally act Locally and fob anyone who passes judgement on you for they are the ones waisting valuable time moaning when they could be doing something better with their time.

oo That one's good! Very good!

Sit in the forest, listen to the trees... They are the oldest and wisest sentinals. Remember, they knew the world even before your grandmother. And should you wish a trophy... a camera at your side will give you the "perfect shot".

Okay guys, would you have a manual like a Bible?

*snickerfits* Only the one me and Kis are going to write!

I dunno... why just one manual... why not a mess of them.. one for whatever style you want!

Of course, on the first page of that book is the oldest rule:

"do what you will........."


Anyone care to finish?

At the harm of none. (which will take care of all the "What if someone murders/rapes/steals/cheats..." slippery slope arguments)

A universal church... a place for faith, study, festivals, and science... worship whatever deity you want... don't force your faith on others... and a huge research place... so our loved athiests don't feel left out. If they care to watch the festivals.. maybe join in.. they are more then welcomed. Keeping an open heart and mind.

(maybe then we can get Hyper laid... *cackles and ducks* I KID!!)

for those that need the labels:

god is the stimulus that causes a horse to run out in front of your car on a country road and stop dead in your path.
god is the ice that breaks free and falls upon you while walking.
god is the envoronmental factor that stimulates the growth of cancer within your body.
...
in other words, god is probability.

those that can not deal with or process probabilities can always use the term 'god'

for this there is no need for a manual.

Will your god have a spiritual companion that will be part of a duality? I assume that there will be no son to complete a trinity.

nope, no duality. just probability. it would be the unfolding. (of which there are no subjective valuations - no good/evil;right/wrong)

Which is why I like the idea of the universal church. Hyper can go there and find stimulating conversation and a great place to read/research. X)

That is the very essence of Native American beliefs. Skan taku skan. God is both male and female. He is the all emcompassing. The every expanding circle of the universe which returns to the begining.

NO! Never! "Doctrine" should be personal and private. Everybody keeps their own "doctrine" and there will be no arguments or religious wars. That is another Native American belief. Personal doctrine.

Lapi'che

Going back to the bible idea...no, certainly not. I would ensure that the god frequently presented himself to his people and issued his messages directly...this would not only ensure faith would not begin to drift (since he's quite obviously there, shouting instructions), but we wouldn't see what has happened with the bible...for which every single person has their own interpretation.



It's actually the fact that everyone has their own doctrine that leads to religious wars

Not if their doctrine is personal and private. That is the point. Keep your own doctrine. Not push it on someone else. People follow a "set" doctrine and that leads to all the infighting. From India across Afganistan, Central Asia to England. You are all the same race, Indo European and you hate each other and our racist against each other and you fight over religion. You will never hear of Native Americans who are traditionists fighting over such nonsense because our doctrines are PERSONAL and PRIVATE. It is only the New Age psuedo "Native" shamans who teach of "set" doctrines. Not us..

Lapi'che

If I could make a God and religious institution, I would make one where there is no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, we don't set people on fire simply because they don't agree with us, there are no crucifictions, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. A God who never tells me I'm unworthy, doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved, never says an unkind word, and treats me fine.

YES! and you avatar is one of the greatest people ever.........

Lapi'che

The God I want to believe in is GREATER than the Universe. The next time you look up in the night sky, think about what you see. You are not just seeing stars, you are seeing galaxies, billions of them, each of which contains billions of stars! Whatever set all this in motion is God, and that is the same force that maintains the electrons spinning around the nuclei of every atom, and determines the content of that nucleus. Such a force or being could not possibly be contained or limited by petty human beliefs. Such a being is intelligence all our imaginings. This being is not stupid. If you want to call it Jesus, Buddha, YHVH, Allah, Shiva, or Fred,it understands. If you close your hand, and grasp a bit of air, it contains, for a moment, billions of subatomic particles, each of which contains a bit of the essence of the One, which was theirs rom the Big Bang to the Heat Entropy which will eventually end this petty universe. Love? Why would that be? Love is not even close to the power of such a being. Christians, and others, suppose that this Being was somehow incarnate in a man are not even close to comprehending the true mystery! The Divine Spark is in all of us! We are all "begotten" children of God. As I said before, the real God understands when you speak to it whatever name you call. To distinguish this concept from more traditional usage, I propose that we add a letter. Let us spell it "Godd", to be pronounced phonetically "Gawd", so we know that we are talking about the real Godd, and not any exclusionist religion! l

I have to join Hypers philosophy, I mean I would choose to , I like the idea of no God , just life and being here now and defining myself as i go based on what I decide, i also like Silver and Kismets religon too, i embrace alot of the ideas as you guys also, caring for the planet communing with nature no hang ups sexually, and lots of fun, i loved the way silver included us odd balls , she'd make a place for me and hyper, i like JM's idea also let people be , i like Yeles idea to its all god, if we put em all toghether what do you guys think? What would we call it??? namaste Sheri

I think if I could make a God to my liking then it would be a God I love and that he or she too loves everyone else!! I would want everyone to be happy with they're own God and respect and love everyone else's also. If I had a choice everyone would have they're own and by choice love one anothers-I think we'd all be happy!! Everyone would make they're God up to they're own perfection without causing harm or doing bad things..
My God would be exactly like the one I so love. The one that made me and has healed me and walked me thru such bad trials in my life. I may not always agree with what God wants and expects but he is my creator and everyone has to have rules and boundries. Grant ya I think the Christian religion could do without Hell and it being a sin to do magic. I mean it's not like we can do anything spectacular with magic anyways cuz we aren't God's. We are all human beings and I wish we could all get along and love one another as we would our God to our liking. My God and Jesus is very loving and merciful!! That's what I love!! I feel they're love speaking to me in my heart and have been healed from them in church both spiritually and physically!!
So no I couldn't pick a God to my perfect cuz the one I have is the God I love!!

Are we designing gods here, or people? Left to their own devices, people are virtually incapable of living in harmony with people who don't agree with them. That's just the way we work You can probably trace it back to primordial tribal warfare, or territoriality between social groups back in the hunter gatherer days.

That's why you'd need a god to keep order directly...either by appearing in person, or having some kind of celestial organisation to govern over the spiritual matters of the world, which he would direct in person (none of this "I have a vision from the lord!" rubbish..genuine, face to face interaction). That way any arguements about interpretation and commandments could be quite easily cleared up, without the need to resort to religious genocide

I'm just curious . . . . when some say here, "no songs," "no churches," "no prayers" . . . . isn't that forming a system of prohibitions that finally makes a god that is as restrictive as the present god who says "don't enjoy looking at your neighbor's wife too much," "don't work on Sundays," and "don't step out on your partner.?"

Rum is my god and Captain Morgan is my priest. *nods*

Honestly... why shouldn't their be prayer... festivals... wild orgies.. solitary worship... open worship... worship who/what/whenever...

If some want a book.. let them have a book. If some want to put a.. VW bug on a pedistal... let them. The only real rule should be... to not overlay your faith on everyone else if they don't want it...

Sera, your God is a little too red for my liking. I would still go for the non-interferring God before I went for a dictatoral God.


After all you will allways have people who wish to be God like, human mini Gods. I would argue that a dictator God would only inspire little Hitleresque beings, and there for wars.

A God you don't see who lets you fall over and learn from it , who lets you try too hard to do something , who allows you to be knocked down so that you can get back up on your own. Now that's a God worth worshipping. Let me do as I like I am after all an Adult with a mind of my own and I don't know many people who actually do go out of there way to upset those around them. It's a basic survival instinct to keep the people around you happy with what you're doing. In the days of hunting and gathering if you upset too many people you may well end up as bait for the next meal, or worse, the next meal itself.

Kismit, you have just described the Deist Creator! Maybe you want to check us out?

I've allready had a look into it, I like the concepts mako

Mako, then you are crediting creation to this new god?

my gods would be 60% pure 'good' (as in helpful and helper of those that sick) and 40% 'evil' (destroys those that are not worthy of life). there powers would be generally power of everything. we'd have different levels of a heaven, a heaven in which the mind can choose. but if you wish to see heaven for what it was - you can, but there'd be 7 levels of heven. he wouldn't have a son, but I'd be above him, so he'd obey me (muwahaha, okay maybe he wouldnt obey me v_v). there wouldnt be one god, there'd be 9, gods and goddess, those gods and goddess would have different tasks to handle and such. and there'd be no churches, there's be temples. also, there'd be a hell god, who watches over the damned to make sure they can't get out and fill the world, and then when their punishment is up, they'll be let out to watch over anouther soul, and then eventually be allowed to take another host inwhich the host and soul may co-inside. and also, there'd be festivels dedicated to each diety (the four gods in heaven, the four goddess'es in heaven, and the single hell-god in hell.)

If there were no churches, would there be human representatives (like priests, ministers, etc.) that would be the intermediaries between god and man?

wrong post. >_<

I have never yet met a person in here that tries exactly to overlay they're faith on someone else. It is the other side that takes offensive to it and makes judgement.

Starlitkate, if you go to the most recent Wiccans and Pagans thread, you will find at least two seperate posters claiming that Witchcraft or pagan ritual is the work of the devil or very similar comments. That is forcing your religion on somebody else. And I don't mean to argue but I have dealt with a lot of people who prosyletise on this site.

...................
and iapaac,
in regards to your question for mako,
What makes you think this is a new God?

Oh no? Let's see..

Boltwave:

science101: (that's just a fancy ways of saying that no matter what, God and Jesus is for everyone... which is pushing his faith)

Jesusfan:

Vallheru:

That's just a few. And before you even think about saying that non christians were starting it... reactions come from those who speak first. Don't cry that christians can't stand up for themselves and are bashed. Maybe if a few of them would learn that there are other religions in the world and not everyone's going to fall into the neat little christian row.

Diversity keeps things intresting.

All Gods are the same God.

Not here. We are making a new one, remember?

Well, I'd establish The Force & a Jedi Order, but... Yeah. Personally, I believe that whatever god I create would not create any sort of hell, but rather help bring those that have sinned back to the light... In other words, redemption. Remember, no one's beyond redemption.

TeraLink Was Here!

Ah, but the problem isn't individual people It's society. A person can learn from their mistakes, can not bother those around them, can be peaceful and inobtrusive...but people can't. Society is expansionist, xenophobic, territorial, and often violent.

In fact, we often see that society's collective intelligence is often so low that it doesn't really know what's good for it...which is why those in charge would need to keep order directly. I'm not proposing a 1984 scenario, where everyone is watched 24/7, and if you don't join in the universal morning exercises you get shot But I do think a diety...a good deity...would step in more often than not.

Crime for example...wouldn't it be nice if that peice of crap who just broke into someone's house was incinerated on the spot? Wouldn't it be nice if that dude trying to rape some woman suddenly found himself hanging upside down above an enclusure for of ravenous, flaming gerbils?

Allthough I would like to see some people incinerated on the spot, I still have faith in the individual.

I have and always will maintain that every single person on the Earth needs to be treated as such. A single individual person. I mean you get your problems on U.M. only when people start generalising the skeptics this the believers that Americans this muslims that christians this non believers that, wouldn't you agree? Generalising is the quickest way to get the mob mentality swinging. That's when society becomes xenophobic, extremist and often violent. And I have faith in the fact that if myself and others can learn that individuals matter then the non-interferring god system can work. Think Locally act Globally remeber. Silver and I are going to write a book or series of them. 'The little book of calm', 'The little book of wisdom' and 'The little book of bumper sticker quotes.':P

Kismit, that attitude doesn't work now, why would it work then? Either way, you've got a god who (real or not) doesn't interfere in the everyday world...I don't really see what you'd change. You're not really talking about changing a god, you're talking about changing the very nature of the human race