Well reason i have posted this topic is to get alittle advice or opinions.

I have been having nightmares for the past couple days now.

The first one i end up with is the devils chasing me and my friends,

The next is my friend waving to me whispering but i can't her him.

The next i get the devil chasing me again.

Now i just found out last night that a friend of mine commited suicide. Which is sorta freaky. I thought maybe it's him saying his goodbyes. Or just telling me that he's not in heaven. I don't know i am still in shock from the news. Didn't think he was actually like that. But if you's could let me know what you's think please let me know.

There are things that trouble us we may not see. Our subconscious can tell us many things that we filter out. As for your friend. Grieve for them, deal with the pain and hurt that comes and do not shy away. If you are religious, talk about it with your faith community. If you are not then find a group, not necessarily religious to help you through this time. There are many support groups for people who have sudden loss. If we deal with our Demons be they spiritual or worldly we are more likely to heal. Don’t neglect yourself, take care of yourself and take a look at where you are in life. You have lost a friend, that is painful so make time to take care of yourself and those around you now, that is what is important, not a dream. Dreams can not hurt you, but they may tell you that you are under to much stress.

Devils you say? Wow, allot of people here have demonic problems, look no further, I will help you if you need it.

If he did in fact commit suicide, then I regret to inform you that he would go to Hell, and not Heaven for such an outrageous sin.

That is one opinion, another is that through the love of Christ, all sin is forgiven. We are unable to earn our way into heaven. As fallen people we only make our way to heaven through the Grace of God. So no the person in question is not in hell. He is in heaven. To think otherwise puts limints on the forgivness of God.

Killing yourself Preacherbill is a sin against god. Your telling him that the gift that he gave you, the most powerful gift is not worth having, and you throw it away. If you loved God, and you followed Jesus Christ, you would not do such an act. You could assume in this sense that Judas went to Heaven, after he ratted out Jesus, and hung himself, but I am very assured, as was the Apostle Peter, that he went to hell for that action.

Suicide is never a way out, and it is definetly not a way into Gods grace, or into heaven. The way for us to repent our sins is the eucharist, and that is obviously not possible in death, therefore, commiting suicide will always leave a sin in your soul. God will always forgive you, if you ask forgivness, killing yourself, is not asking for forgiveness, your more or less asking the devil for a way out.

It all depends on who has the power to forgive sin. Man or God. I do not condone the act of suiside. I do belive it is a selfish act that goes against God and does harm to those who you leave behind.

As to the issue with Judas. He did not have a choice, the greek text shows that Judas was an instrament of God. He handed over Jesus as was nessasary for the plan of God. I simply assume that God will have the choice to forgive. I will not claim to tell God that he can not forgive someone. We simply have a differance of opinon about our theology. That i can respect.

Although i belive it is inaproprate to tell someone who has just lost a friend to suicide that their friend is going to hell. It is not pastoral and at this point we should be providing care for the living as there is nothing we can offer the dead but our prayers.

Im sorry about your friend.

Dreaming is the subjective experience of remembered and imaginary images, sounds/voices, words, thoughts or sensations during sleep.
The truth is,we dont really know alot about them,dream research is called oneirology.

And dont listen to the holy rolers and bibel thumpers,Im sure your friend was a nice enough guy to get a ticket to the right place,if there is such a thing.

The question was asked, and there is a simple answer, it is not a righteous act. I do see that our theology differs, are you a member of the Roman Catholic Church ?. Mainly, because Judas was not so much used as a tool for God, saying that means that all of our sins are tools of God, and if that was so true, why would their be Commandments for us to follow ?. Jesus wept in the olive garden, because he knew he had to die, to forgive the sins of man. He knew himself, that he could get out of it, he asked God in the garden why ?, but he knew that was the price for human salvation, the salvation that he wanted for all of us to have. God knew of his decesion, but Jesus did have a choice, he was given many chances of Pontuis Pilate to just say that he was not the " Son of God " and even Pilate was bewildered by it, and had no choice but to execute him.

Personally, saying that someone can still go to heaven, after committing suicide, is honestly the worst advice you could give. Why don't I just go to church, repent, then take a shotgun and shoot myself. I can go to Heaven, be with peace, and it's suppose to be better then this world, so why wouldn't I do it ?, instead of struggle in this mundane existance ?. Just not good advice sir.

I know it seems somewhat blunt, but it ties in with her dream of the devil quite well.

First, i am not a Roman Catholic. I am a Lutheran of Evangelical Lutheran Church.
Second the advice that i gave was to find help for herself. All we can do for her friend is trust in the forgivness of God. I understand the ideas of the Catholic church. I just dont agree with them. The power to forgive sin does not rest in any man. It is with God. God has the final say. I could be wrong and i recognize that. I just belive in a God that has a greater ablity to forgive than any human has. I do not advise people on how to sin. We all sin, we have free choice, i simply belive in the forgivness and Grace of God.

There are worse things you can do than to kill your self (pedofili-murder-rape etc) and still go to "heaven".
All you have to do is go to some preast and say that you are sooo sorry.

Personaly I believe as much in the bibels heaven and hell as I do in the Easter bunny.

A sin is a sin, and they are not worse then eachother. The thing being DEBUNKER, that yes, those are horrible sins, but at least you have a lifetime of penance, guilt, and correction to have those sins forgiven. If you commit suicide, thats it, there is no turning back, no forgiveness for the ones you hurt, including God.

Confessing your sins is more then just going to God and confessing them as well DEBUNKER. That is the first step, to go to church, and admit you have done wrong, for the rest of your life you must do your best to earn the forgiveness. God is no fool, if you think you can kill someone, and then go and ask for forgiveness, and even in heart and soul you are not sorry for your actions, the ceremony will not work. God only forgives those that are truly asking for forgiveness, and are willing to change there lives

This is but one forme of doctirine that is taught in the Christian Church. It is Catholic Doctrine.
Other faiths have other belifes. None of us can say for certin which is correct. That is where faith comes inl

That is true, but saying that there is possible salvation for Commiting Suicide just does not make sense, if so, why don't all we christians do it ?. The fact that you don't, says that you don't believe you will be forgiven for it.

Yeah this argument hold up under logic. Sorry i see it will be impossible to continue a disscusion where each of us is convinced of our correctness. So why dont we agree to disagree.
I think we can both agree that what should happen is we encourage the origoinal poster to seek help in dealing with her grief.

Thats fine. I will just end by saying, please, do not consider committing suicide, that obviously goes for anyone reading this. It is not a way out, only a way deeper into misery.

The act of suicide is an act of choice. God gives us free-choice. The friend chose when he wanted to end his life, and even if life is God's gift, free-choice is too.

Bad dreams are a way of dealing with the pain in life while you are asleep rather than awake. You have had a premonition about the death of your friend and the pain attached.

Your friend is happy because he is in his true self, his spirit self, which is made from God's love.

Thank you everyone for there responses.
Although to most of the comments, I don't know weither he repented before he did it, Nor if he went to church he never really talked about religion. As for me I am Mormon, unfortunitly i don't follow the rules on the mormon religion. I also don't go to church, I believe God can still hear you even at home, Why else would people pray before going to bed. I believe My friend did it in order to forget this tormenting life of his, I don't know wy he did it, what went through his mind at the time, if he prayed to god or the devil. I don't know, all i know is that i had dreams a couple days before last night when i found out. It just seems to be a big shock to everyone. i just seems like a dream. It feels like it was like a practical joke. But everyone will learn to go on life i know that. But to have dreams of someone before they actually die. Scares me. I was always told by my grandmother that one day i will be able to read palms or anything else that is to paranormal. But yeah not the point. the point is i do believe if you are truely sorry that god will forgive him. But you don't nescarily need to talk to the priest. Just like i said before, Your prayers are powerful enough. God can hear you anytime of the day night where ever you may be.

It's just the whole questions running through my head...
Did he really go to heaven? how is there proof on that, except belief for yourself to live on.
Is he right by god?
is he pain free?
Would he still watch over us?
Why did he actually do it?
Why not talk to friends? ( it must have been to hard to do that)
Why leave everything behind?


Thanks again for your replys, it means alot to me, and the others who feel the same as me.

"For by grace are ye saved....not of works, lest any man should boast."

Tedez84.....Only you can know what your friend's faith was. If he truly believed that Christ died for his sins and accepted that gift, then yes it is possible that he is in Heaven now. That does not mean suicide is acceptable to God....it is no more so than any other sin. But sin we all do, every day. That is the whole reason that God sent His son to take our sins upon Himself......so we wouldn't have to worry about getting into Heaven by good behaviour. Once we accept the gift that God has given us, He doesn't take it back, under any circumstances. That isn't a license to sin, of course, but I think God understands all the pitfalls we encounter. I think too He understands emotional/mental illness. A person is not in a right state of mind when he/she commits suicide and God knows that. If your friend believed in salvation through Christ before he died then he very well could be in Heaven right now. God will forgive him for being ill. I hope you can find some peace in that. Please don't even think of blaming yourself or thinking you should have seen the signs. Some people are very good at hiding their inner torment. As you said, you didn't even know he was like that. You said that although you are not a practicing Mormon that you still have faith. Look to God for strength and guidance. He will see you through this if you lean on Him.

I agree with you on this part,forgiveness might not be the right word though.Lets say if someone is terminally sick and will die in horrible pain for months or if someone is mentally ill and cant get the help they need in time.People around you will understand.As far as what God thinks,well,Im to much of a science nut to believe in the bible on faith alone.

The bible has some good pointers though, on how to live your life as one of the good guys.

I don't usually get involved in religious discussions, however as a devout Roman Catholic, I was quite disturbed at the incorrect information being presented as "Catholic doctrine."

The following is an excerpt that deals with the subject of suicide written By Father Pat McCloskey, O.F.M. at Americancatholic.org, it is part of an answer for a Q and A in the St Anthony Messenger.

"Only God knows the human heart well enough to make the awesome judgment about a person’s salvation or damnation. The Church cannot preempt God’s judgment in these matters.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, “Grave psychological disturbances, anguish or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives” (Libreria Editrice Vaticana (1994), Catechism of the Catholic Church, nos. 2282-2283)

Wisely, the Church in one of its eucharistic prayers addresses God, “...and all the dead whose faith is known to you alone.”

BCS

BCS,

That is but one priests interpretation, and his thoughts on the bible. King Saul committed suicide, because he was going to get captured, and tortured by his enemies, but the bible does not say he went to Heaven. Judas killed himself, because of shame, pity, and guilt, but is said he went to hell by the apostle Peter. Taking the above passage from Pats entry

" Grave psychological disturbances, anguish or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide."

All those are symptoms of suicide. Personally, I have never met a person in my life, that has it " easy ". What seems hard to me to cope with, may seem easier for some. A rich man may kill himself because he can't stand living on the street, but a person born and raised on the street finds it life. Does this make suicide OK ?, just because you personally find it hard to continue with life ?. Life is about change, adaptability, learning, and plenty of smiles and crys.

However, it is true that only Jesus Christ will judge us in the end, but committing suicide does not look good on you. I will never tell someone that committing suicide will grant them salvation. It is taking away the most beautiful gift god gave you. Let jesus be your guide, he knew what he had to accomplish, the torture, the agony, but he knew it would bring salvation. He did not shy away from his fate, even though he could very easily of done so. I believe we should all endure the same fate if we expect to fall into the same kingdom.

Obviously you did not read my statement properly. This is not ONE PRIESTS interpretation of the bible. He was quoting directly from Libreria Editrice Vaticana (1994), Catechism of the Catholic Church, nos. 2282-2283. This is what the VATICAN has opined on this subject.

I am not suggesting the Catholic Church is condoning suicide. It is obvious that first and foremost they believe in the sanctity of life. As do most religions. I was speaking directly of your statement, "If he did in fact commit suicide, then I regret to inform you that he would go to Hell, and not Heaven for such an outrageous sin." You go on to say this is based on your Catholic teachings. This is what I disagree with. Had you said this is your personal opinion, I could not argue with you. You are entitled to believe what you wish. However to say it is what the Catholic Church believes is false and misleading. They have made their opinion clear in the Cathechism, which is the foundation for what is being taught(preached) in the Catholic Church today.

I can not put it more simply than this. I am not condoning or encouraging suicide. I am not arguing it is the right path to take. I personally believe it is a cowardly act. My only bone of contention was in your use of the Catholic Faith as a basis for your opinion.

To the original poster. My heart goes out to you. All I can say is God is infinitely loving and forgiving. Let that give you comfort.
BCS

BCS,

That is but one teaching in Libreria Editrice Vaticana, and I am aware of what it is. With that regard, then you should also know it says the following.

“Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of” 2280

Therefore saying, we are not in charge of that action being suicide, but we are more or less taking it upon ourself that God no longer loves us, and will no longer help us with our lives, so taking our life, is the best way out.


Not to mention that the Church also speaks against the following "an act or omission which, of itself or by intention, causes death in order to eliminate suffering" (#2277). Which once again goes against suicide.

However BCS, there is one thing we will both never know, and that is how God will decide our's, and every other persons fate. This is what I was taught to believe by Christianity, and it's simple rules. If you commit suicide, it's a quick ticket to hell, for it goes against what God gave us, and goes against his commandments " Thou shall not kill ". And to throw such an insult, and unwant into Gods face, I would never see a reason for him to forgive.

error, sorry new to this posting thing.

Trust me when I say this, when you are on that verge, the last thing you are thinking about is throwing an insult at God or that he does not love you anymore. Unless you have been there, you cannot judge (as that is God's job) what one has or is going through or that you are silly to think it serious enough to take one's life. Least of all, if our action will cause our fall from grace.

There are many, many factors, illnesses (both physical and mental) that can precipitate one's decision to commit suicide. Only God knows what he is thinking, feeling and if he will or will not "forgive" a person. What someone needs in a situation like this is understanding, empathy and treatment.

Believe me, you are not thinking about trading one hell for another or taking your situation lightly.

I did not make mention of 2280, because I thought that was a given. The Church - GOD values life. PERIOD. That was not up for argument.

2282-2283 are meant to add that the Roman Catholic Church believes in a compassionate GOD, who will and can find a way to forgive.

"....I would never see a reason for him to forgive" The key word here is "I". This equals> Your opinion. Your interpretation. Your belief.

You do not speak for Catholics or the Catholic Church.

I will not continue going back and forth on this subject. I could respect your argument if you simply said :this is my opinion, I speak for no one else. Instead your insistence that the Catholic Church is preaching hell and damnation for those who commit suicide is an outright LIE!

Have your vengeful God if it makes you feel better. My advice to you is to take a year an participate in your church's RCIA program as a sponsor. Perhaps it will bring you up to date on what exactly the Catholic Church is teaching.

BCS

YOUR FRIEND IS NOT GOING TO BURN IN HELL BECAUSE HE COMMITTED SUICIDE !!!

Sorry for your loss. Hope you, and his family and friends get thru this ordeal peacefully.

Your dream with the devil(s). I don't know what to make of it. Jesus appeared to me in a dream once, and I'm still pretty confused about it actually.

Amy,

You make a valid point. I had a neighbor who was manic depressive. She was having trouble with her Dr. adjusting her meds and went down hill fast. She came to my door one night and was covered in blood from having sliced her wrists open. It was a terrifying sight looking out my door peephole at 1am and seeing what I can only describe as "Carrie" from the horror movie standing outside my door. Had she succeeded in killing herself, I can not fathom God saying "That'll be eternal hell for you" No thanks. I refuse to accept the notion of a rigid inflexible uncompassionate God that seems to be so popular with the more righteous than thou believers. Love, empathy, forgiveness is the message we should be grabbing hold of and practicing.

Peace
BCS

Thank you for that post! Very well said! Fact is that many of those old "rules" were man-made, some passed down through the centuries from the minds of various popes, and had no real Biblical basis. It is very true that only God is the true judge. If we take it upon ourselves to judge others we are in essence trying to take on God's roll.


I'm also very glad that someone brought up that depression can have physical causes, that sometimes have nothing to do with hardship or a difficult life. Even so, emotional difficulties can cause very real physical changes in the brain's chemistry as well. We all handle emotional problems differently. Some of us are more tough-skinned than others. It's all well and good to sit in judgement of those who are less tough, but keep in mind that old saying...."There but for the grace of God go I."