I've read and read about the masons and DeMolay, and its just ending up to be a small little ferternity and a club. Why is there so big of a fuss about it? My grandfather is an active mason, although.
I know our founding fathers were just a mason, and a couple people say they know things about the US goverment that others don't originaly know about. Is this true, and if not, my grandfather says your not allowed to talk about it that much...

I do not know much about it, other than it is a Secret Society and members help one another out.

I think much of the Mason's mystery stems from nothing more than speculation surrounding their secrecy. However there's plenty of articles, which vary in reliability, linking them to the Illuminati and the whole Bildererg thing. As a result they pop up in all sorts of theories such as one alternative theory for why Princess Diana was killed. No smoke without some sort of fire some may say - and there's PLENTY of smoke surrounding the Masons. Also, Masonic ritual claims a lineage back to the Rosicrucians and Templars, so there's a mystical element to their reputation as well.

They're not as much of a mystery today as they were years ago. You can just google and find out the "secret handshake" etc. But the Freemasons were known for their oral traditions about the antediluvians. The highest degree is 33. You can easily tell if someone were a mason. It's not like all of them are shy about it. There are symbols on their cars, they do gestures, some have rings, etc.

There is an occult tradition apparently associated with them. Think alchemy and science. There are grand masters who have been famous scientists, like Newton and Da Vinci.

Yeah, there's certainly a sense of greater openess about the Masons nowadays - although some would consider this simply an attempt by the Masons to divert attention from whatever they're considered to really be up to.

And the Grand Masters were called John(think John the Baptist) because they had thought that Jesus was a false prophet.

according to some, this place was built (but never used) as a Masonic initiation centre...

www.woodchestermansion.org.uk

There are paintings by secret society members which include the John Gesture, the two fingered point used perhaps as a blessing or to draw the cross. The Masons recognised John the Baptist as the messiah and called Jesus the false prophet because they thought he was an initiate who preached and not yet inducted into the secret inner circle.

Freemasons use this symbol. The G in the center means God. I liken it to the Star of David.

That symbol means many things in alchemy:

Fire and water, as above so below, as within so without, male and female, spiritual and sexual union, god and goddess. The symbol also possesses alchemical symbolisms as well.

That's true. Speaking of symbols, there is also a star of Venus that maps onto the shape of a rose. In the center is the symbol for the sun (Mystic Rose). The planet Venus incidentally appears to move in the shape of a five-pointed star. It's a 40-year cycle. The five-petalled rose is the symbol of resurrection and the Virgin birth. Interestingly enough, the rose is linked to the Rosa Canina, which doesn't need a mate to reproduce. This ties into the Flood legend (the Freemasons spoke of the antediluvians) because there was a flower that survived the Flood, etc.

The pentagram also means the 5 elements: air, fire, water and earth, and the fifth of spirit.

In rituals it can be used to attract or dispel energies depending upon which way it is drawn. The kabbalistic cross of light is the two fingers of the John Gesture.

The hexagram, or 6 pointed star, or two triangles represents the planets of Saturn, Mars, Jupiter, Mercury, Moon, Venus and in the centre is the Sun. It can be used as a spell depending upon its invocation. The planets also represent metals used in alchemy.

Pentacles are also in the tarot.

Before they knew about the "five elements", around 400 BC, the Greeks believed there were four. And they were called "humours" which also correlated to the four seasons. The humors were sanguine, choleric, phlegmatic, and melancholy (fire, water, earth, air).
But the Greeks weren't the first to start secret societies. Secret societies were around as early as the Sumerians.

Very true. There are some who say that the Masons were a direct result from the builders at Solomon's Temple or from Egyptian Mystery Schools. It is interesting that Isis and Mary Magdelene were worshipped, forms of the Mother Goddess. The Fleur de Lys was a french monarchy symbol which was the Flower of Isis. The secret societies traditionally were a rich society group, which held elite positions in monarchy and society.

It really wouldn't surprise me. The very word "alchemy" (which Freemasons have studied) was taken from the Egyptian word Kemet or Al Kham. I looked up the word alchemy and it's from the Middle English alkamie, from Old French alqueme, from Medieval Latin alchymia, from Arabic al-kamia, the Greek Khemia (chemistry), then back to Egyptian.

33 degrees is the number of completion in Hebrew Numerology, so it's appropriate that the Freemasons used it in degrees. There are also 33 segments in the spinal column.

You all should read the latest "The Golden Dawn" as revealed by Israel Regardie. Very good book, very, very good information.

far from being an old mans social club, any president of the united states is supreme grand master of the american lodges[all founding fathers of america were prominent freemasons, just read the their constitution its riddled with masonic skullduggery], whoever is in line to the throne of england is no.1 freemason in the world and this concenrsn more mundane and material things but all the saudi royals are members of the saudi royal lodges. UH OH. But as for symbols and what not, u can get a symbol to mean different things to different ppl. But just look at what items they actually depict in the masonic symbol posted, more of a clue really.

Not necessarily. In alchemy (practiced by Secret Societies through out the ages) symbols meant specific procedures, and were used to keep information secret.

Here is a link about alchemical symbols and their meanings.

PLO, you might want to rethink that. There have only been eight presidents that were Freemasons... and one of those quit after going through the first degree. Being president only gives a Mason a cool day job... as in the lodge there are only two "classes" of Freemasons, Master Masons and the Master of the Lodge.

There is NO central "Grand Super Poo-Bah Master of all Lodges"... either US _OR_ UK.

Many middle-eastern "Masons" aren't recognized as being legitimate by most US Grand Lodges. I'm not speaking of Middle Eastern folks in the US, I'm speaking of the lodges in the Middle East. I was invited to visit a Kuwaiti Lodge when I was there in 2003, but as my Grand Lodge doesn't recognize it, I had to decline.

Yeah, that nasty constitutional skullduggery.... "all men are created equal" "Freedom of speech and assembly" Freedom of religion" and many others...

Horrible stuff there... hope we get rid of all that soon. What are you going to call your New World Order? (/sarcasm)

And for posters above, don't use the "G" symbol for a guide, as it is only used in US lodges. Other Grand Lodge jurisdictions use a sunburst, a star, or nothing at all, so it's not like it's universal.

RainbowRowan, there is no evidence at all that Sir Issac Newton was a Freemason - and da Vinci was around some 200 years before the Freemasons were born. Sorry.

The Grand Masters are called by their names and title, ala, Grand Master Yelekiah. There is no tradition of calling them "John" after the Baptist or any other Johns.

There is also no movement to even SPEAK about Jesus in Lodge. We don't discuss religion in Lodge, as it is a perfect opportunity to tick somebody off, and we want to keep things civil - so no religion or politics in Lodge. To become a member, you have to have a belief in a mono-theistic male godhead - which one, we don't care. And once you are a member, there is no pressure to change or discredit or anything. There is NO push to accept John the Baptist as Messiah or to say that Jesus is a false prophet or anything like that.

You guys have to stop reading Baigent and Lincoln...

ARE THERE ANY TRAVELING MEN IN THIS FORUM??????

My brother I dont know what lodge you belong to, But I AM A Free International Mason of the Lamaar Lodge is where I was made many years ago,and the mighy name of Jesus is the corner stone of our craft. And not only do you heft to be a christain to even be reconized as a member of, you must practiced a life of christain based morality,You have a ceartain amount of time before reaching you 3rd degree to be and active member of church.
Now some have changed this organization into a form of fashion are show but it is not meant to be that way. May God bless you !!!!

You think that Freedom is horrible stuff, and you hope to get rid of it soon?


What is the symbolic meaning for G, a sunburst, or a star?


I didn't mention that Sir Isaac Newton was a Freemason, merely that he was a member of a secret society, namely the Priory of Sion.


This information is from Picknett and Prince.


Are you saying that you do believe that or you don't?


I am sure that many of us have done research not entirely based on Baigent and Lincoln...

It is obvious this is a password of sorts, so I googled "Travelling Men Masons" and this site turned up...

Is this what the Freemasons believe?

They were called "John", in the Priory of Sion in France (possible forefathers of the masons).

there is a grand "poobah" of freemasonary though. The saudi royal lodges are also recognised[even in america], dont no anythign about our brothers over the pond and their politics as it were though, so i cant realy comment on them, you also can't "quit" u just stop showing up. I dont like how u neglect your past masters though, or any other degrees. Sure your a freemason m8 and not just saying this to lend credibility to your statement?

PLO could you please tell us what the purpose of a secret society is? What is your secret exactly?

Malchi41, where, praytell is the Lamaar Lodge, and under which Grand Lodge is it operating? I was raised in John W. Barkley Lodge, #621, F&AM GL of Ohio, in Cleveland, OH... and in all my research, I haven't heard of any regular lodges espousing ANY religious leanings, especially as strong as you suggest.

After some Googling, I haven't found any info on the "Free International Masons" nor on "Lamaar Lodge". And I am begnning to doubt that your lodge is consideree "regular" by the F&AM and AF&AM. Could you point me in the right direction so I might be able to adjust my initial opinion? Thanks!

RainbowRowan, regarding my post above, if you read it as I wrote it, I was addressing PLO's post. He was the one that brought up the constitution and the supposed "skullduggery" inserted by the Masons. That is why I used the (/sarcasm) tag... as I was using sarcasm to make my point.

The "G/sunburst/star" is used to signify both Geometry (the highest of the mathematical arts, and God, as a reminder to strive for the ideal in life that our chosen deity has established for us. It is basically as superflous decoration that is used as an additional reminder to Freemasons to Do the Right Thing... to keep learning and to act like a Freemason (as that will keep you out of trouble in EVERY situation).

The grand history of the Priory was proven to be a construct by Baigent and Lincoln - it was established in the late '40s and that wonderful list of names found in the old book by them in thier "research" was written BY them... so, sorry, you are giving Newton and da Vinci credit for being in a club that didn't exist back then.

Regarding Picknett and Prince, a quick google will show you many sites that debunk their claims. There is NO history outside of their books that show any Freemason being called "John" unless his name was already John. You might not be quoting Baigent and Lincoln, but you are quoting someone that uses their "research" for a basis in their own arguments... Not a good way to get people to agree with you.

No, I don't hold that John the Baptist is the true Messiah, nor do I have any flavor of agenda that wants to dethrone Jesus.

Also, regarding "Freemasonwatch.com", that is what we call an anti-masonic site, and if you spend more than a casual glance looking at it, you will see that they have more problems than you can really count. They even use a Chick Tract to support their opinions!! The info the spread is inaccurate at best, and outright lies at the worst. We spend our time ignoring them. Try This site for a better example of what we do and what we stand for.

PLO, no, there is NOT a Grand-Grand Master. The local jurisdiction is as high as it goes. As of just yesterday, the Grand Lodge of Saudi Arabia is NOT recognized as being "official" by the Grand Lodge of Ohio. This means that should I ever meet a Saudi "mason", I would treat him as I would any other non-member. I am not sure where you are getting your info, but it is NOT correct.

Also, it is very possible to quit. If you feel strongly enough about it, you can write the secretary of your Lodge and "quit". This will do nothing more than getting you pulled off any mailing lists we might have. Most usually just "forget" to pay their annual dues, which will get them dropped from the roles the next year. If a researcher goes into the archives and does a LOT of checking, they can see that Mr. Bob Smith from 1234 Main St, Mytown, AA, USA petitioned on XX date, then went through the three degrees on AA, BB and CC dates, then was on the roles as being a "member in good standing" for YY amount of years, being dropped from the roles for non-payment of dues on ZZ date. That is it.

We might have some promotional items that say, "Freemasons for life", but it should be corrected to say, "Freemason for life as long as they pay their dues."

Sorry about the novel, but there were too many things to address. I am getting as wordy as Julian Penrod!

Funny the jump of interest in them since
the release of National Treasure. I have
seem the topic pop up on many sites.

To be a Mason is to have status, is that
not what every great man is after?

Mahlrun, does the Hiram Key have Baigent and Lincoln as a source out of curiosity? The same was said of the Knights Templar for several years.
edit: Actually the John the Baptist thing pre-dates them. I just did a search.

Here is a great article:

go to the original for all the extra links

http://www.savethemales.ca/001280.html

Freemasonry: Mankind's Death Wish
By Henry Makow Ph.D.
November 27, 2005

(This updated article first appeared here Jan. 15, 2005) Architects of Deception a 600-page history of Freemasonry by Estonian writer Jyri Lina offers profound insight into the true character of modern history.

Essentially, a dominant segment of Western society has joined the Jewish financial elite in embracing Freemasonry, a satanic philosophy that represents a death wish for civilization. They imagine somehow they will profit from the carnage and suffering caused by their "New World Order."

Incredible, bizarre and depressing as it sounds, Lina writes that 300 mainly Jewish banking families have used Freemasonry as an instrument to subvert, control and degrade the Western world.

This view is consistent with the 1938 NKVD interrogation of an illuminati member who names many of these banking families and confirms that Freemasons are expendable tools. (See my two-part "Rothschild Conducts Red Symphony" )

Based on the archives of the powerful French Grand Orient Lodge, captured in June 1940 and later made public by the Russians, Lina details how Freemasonry has conspired for world domination and orchestrated all major revolutions and wars in the modern era. (Lina, p.332)

Masons, often Jewish, are responsible for Communism, Zionism, Socialism, Liberalism (and Feminism.) They love big government because it is the ultimate monopoly. "World government" (dictatorship) is the final trophy. This is the vision behind 9-11 and the "War on Terror."

These "world revolutionary" "progressive" movements all mirror Lucifer's rebellion against God and nature which is at the heart of Freemasonry. They ensnare millions of gullible idealists by promising a utopia based on materialism and "reason" and dedicated to "liberty, equality and fraternity," "public ownership" or some other idealistic sounding claptrap. It's called bait-and-switch.

According to Lina: "The primary aim of modern freemasonry is to build the New World Order, a spiritual Temple of Solomon, where non-members are nothing but slaves [and] ...where human beings would be sacrificed to Yahweh." (52)

Lina cites numerous Jewish sources that claim Freemasonry is based on Judaism and is "the executive political organ of the Jewish financial elite." (81-83)

The common goal of these Masonic inspired movements is to undermine race, religion, nation and family ("all collective forces except our own") by promoting social division, self indulgence and "tolerance" i.e. miscegenation, atheism, nihilism, global-ism, sexual "liberation" and homosexuality thereby reducing humanity to a uniform dysfunctional and malleable mush.

Lina and others who attempt to alert humanity to its real condition are routinely slandered as anti-Semitic, fascist, and right wing "haters" by people indirectly employed by the bankers.

This tactic shields the conspirators from scrutiny and makes discussion of our grim predicament impossible.

I am a Jew. I am not part of this banking monopoly, nor is the majority of Jews. By way of analogy, the mafia is considered mostly Italian but most Italians do not belong to the mafia.

Italians don't viciously attack opponents of organized crime and call them "racists" and "hate mongers". That would look awfully suspicious. Jews compromise themselves by their defence of the Masonic bankers and their perverse vision for humanity.

My four grandparents perished in the Jewish holocaust. I demand to know the real reason they were murdered. London-based Masonic bankers and their cronies brought Hitler to power in order to provoke war, control Stalin, and justify the creation of Israel. They betrayed non-Zionist Jews and let them perish. They are using the Jewish people in the same way they use the Masons.

THE ILLUMINIST CONSPIRACY


We cannot understand the modern world unless we appreciate that it is the result of the Masonic conspiracy. People scoff yet the evidence stares them in the face every day.

The Great Seal of the United States on every dollar bill is a Masonic symbol. There are 33 steps on the side of the pyramid representing the 33 degrees of Freemasonry. The Masons established the United States as a base to advance their goal of world supremacy. According to "The Temple and the Lodge" the Masonic English generals let their American "brothers" win a
seeming independence. (Baigent & Leigh, pp.252ff.)

Similarly, the emblem of the United Nations is also a Masonic symbol. The world is caught in a grid consisting of 33 spaces surrounded by acacia leaves, which signifies intense activity in masonry. (215)

Three-quarters of US presidents in the Twentieth Century were high-level Masons. Both Bush and Kerry are Masons (Skull and Bones.) FDR, Churchill, Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin were masons. Most Zionist leaders were and are Masons. Gerhard Schroeder, Jacques Chirac and Tony Blair are Freemasons. So is Sadaam Hussein, which suggests the Iraq war could be a sadistic charade.

There are over six-million Masons in 32,000 lodges around the world including 2.5 million in the US. In 1929, 67% of Members of Congress were Masons. There are 500,000 Masons in England with more than 100 lodges in the City of London (i.e. the financial district) alone including one at the Bank of England. More than five per cent of British judges are Masons.

Lina believes, "Freemasonry plays the same role in Western society as the Communist Party did in the Soviet Union. Without belonging to the freemasonry there is no chance of a fast career, regardless of how talented one is."

Keep in mind that Communism was a Masonic enterprize and the puzzle starts to take shape.

Lina says Freemasons not only control politics but also virtually every sector of Western society, including science and culture. "The present cultural life has become virtually unconscious," he writes. "We have witnessed the beginning of cultural senility." (333)

In his pamphlet "The Open Conspiracy: Blueprint for a World Revolution" (1929) the Freemason H.G. Wells describes an "open secret society" consisting of society's leading men operating as a hidden force to secure world resources, reduce population through war and replace the nation state with world dictatorship. (340)


MASONIC IDEOLOGY


Human beings are naturally attracted to good and repulsed by evil. Thus evil always represents itself as good. To the public, and its own lower ranks, Freemasonry pretends to be dedicated to "making good men better", humanism, tolerance, Christianity and you-name-it.

If this were true, would they have to extract vows of secrecy from members on pain of slitting their throat? Would they have been condemned by many Popes and banned from numerous countries? (84)

I do not wish to impugn the many good and decent men in the lower "Blue Degrees" who are unaware of Freemasonry's true function and character. But there is abundant evidence and testimony that Freemasonry is a satanic cult dedicated to the worship of death. (134-138)

For example, when the Italian Grand Orient Lodge was evicted from the Palazzio Bourghese in Rome in 1893, the owner found a shrine dedicated to Satan. The Italian freemasons published a newspaper in the 1880's where they admitted time and again, "Our leader is Satan!" (135)

The Masons also admit to having a revolutionary political agenda. Typical of statements Lina cites from Masonic publications is the following from a German magazine in 1910:" The driving thought is at all times focused on destruction and annihilation, because the power of this great secret society can only rise from the ruins of the existing order of society." (272)


CONCLUSION

The Illuminist Conspiracy is the brake responsible for humanity's arrested development. Mankind resembles a person suffering from a serious disease and sinking into a coma.

Juri Lina has written a courageous book to revive us. He says we face "the largest spiritual crisis in the history of mankind...They have taken our history, our dignity, our wisdom and our honor, sense of responsibility, spiritual insights and our traditions."

We are partly to blame, he says: "We have failed to act against the Masonic madness due to our enormous gullibility. We have been totally fooled and ignored the warning signals." (274)

He ends on a hopeful note, saying evil is dysfunctional and inevitably destroys itself. "Freemasonry carries within it the seeds of its own destruction." (563)

Wars, revolutions and depressions are all part of a "revolutionary" process designed to frogmarch humanity to "world government" under the rubric of Freemasonry which may be a surrogate for an alliance of occult Jewish and gentile financial elites. Their "self-destruction" seems to be our best hope since the public is too feckless and weak to resist.

Architects of Deception can be purchased for US$50 by emailing Jyri Lina at
jyrilina@yahoo.com

The book also contains many gossipy nuggets such as Hitler had a son; Lenin was a homosexual; Castro is Jewish and a multimillionaire; and Henry Kissinger was/is a Soviet agent! He says the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Rotary and Lions Clubs were founded by Masons. Golf was invented by Masons and has great significance to them
--------------------------

Does a benevolent organization need to enforce secrecy at the pain of having your throat cut?

Albert Pike, Head of Scottish Rite, on the great hoodwinking in "Morals and Dogma" (1871):

"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled ..."

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." (pp. 104, 105 & 819)

Scooby, your quote is rife with inaccuracies and outright falsehoods...

The Freemasons have no connection with Skull and Bones (the Yale fraternity/club), but he says they are one and the same.

The last bit about all those groups being founded by Freemasons is at least based on truth (I have no idea about Jehovah's Witnesses) as all the rest WERE started by men who also happened to be Freemasons. Is this a bad thing? Just because someone is a member of a club, and they start something, does that make the new creation related to that club? If so, prepare for headlines like, "Catholic Church created by breast feeders!!" and "World Bank started by high-school graduates!!" Sorry, but that doesn't hold water in my book.

"Three quarters of 20th century presidents were Freemasons"?? Not unless he only counted a couple people as president.
--Teddy Roosevelt
--Taft
--Warren Harding
--FDR
--Harry Truman
--Gerald Ford
--LBJ (only did first degree, didn't advance)
Counting the presidents, we have just over fifty percent (that includes LBJ). The only way to make his numbers add up is to count each re-election as a "new" president...

I also like the inclusion of numbers from 1929... (67% of congress are members). Hey, in 1929, there were LOTS of Freemasons, I have no doubt that those numbers were correct. I would also bet that over two thirds were military veterans as well. Now, both numbers are so low as to be laughable. I would be amazed if either membership was over five percent.



You are serious in your support of this guy?? In what way was Stalin controlled??? This guy needs a tin-foil hat and some time to set up a fitting for it...

to be a mason is to square your work by the square of your values. Thats it.

PLO, is this your explanation about a massive world-wide secret society?

PLO, after being a Freemason for over eight years and doing a whole lot of research, I have NEVER heard this before:

Considering your other posts regarding the subject, you have obviously missed any point that Freemasonry might be trying to make. Please give it up, as you aren't doing anyone any favors, especially yourself.

your not a freemason m8, sorry.

and what posts would they be?, you yanks have a very peculiar grasp on how things actually are.

There are several hundred Brothers in my home Lodge that will argue that fact - as will my dues card (paid up through November 2006).

Why do you doubt? Is it because I don't just look away from threads like this and shake my head sadly for the blinded masses that follow whatever conspiracy-theorist-du-jour comes along? Sorry, but I happen to admire the institution to which I belong, and can't abide disinformation and lies spread about it.

EDITED:

Posts like these from page 2:

and

Your "understanding" of Freemasonry shows that your knowledge is limited at best. If you have any knowledge that is based upon one jurisdiction, your grasp of the "jurisdiction" concept and "regular and irregular" lodges is poor. Sorry.

I'm not saying all Freemasons are bad, the majority are good people. Many men in my family have been masons. The whole thing that gets at me is first that it's secret, but second they reveal more and more of there secrets as you climb further up the degrees. And then there are quotes like this:

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." (pp. 104, 105 & 819)

My cousin's friend's dad is a pastor at a church, where one day a very well dressed man came in to his office in an announced visit. Somehow (I forget) they got into an argument, and the pastor realized there was a demon in the visitor. He commanded the evil spirit get out of the man. The visitor suddenly flew back in his chair to the back of the room, and then with his legs flying wildly in the air, started shrieking and speaking in a higher pitched voice: I don't have to leave, I don't have to leave, over and over again. The pastor finally asked why don't you have to leave? The possessed man again in a higher pitched voice replied: Because his grand-father was a mason!

My grand father was a mason, but I think he only made it a few degrees.

I think organizations like the Illuminati have infiltrated Freemasonry and are using it to there advantage.

Possessed men? Conspiracies? Secrets? World-wide agenda? Scary either way...

If there is no 'Grand Poobah' little wonder your jurisdictions are so different. Why are you contesting that fact?

Or is there really a Grand Grand Master to the organisation, who has not given the organisations similar information?

sorry mahlrun post away, its really not something to lie about, insofar to say its pretty much a crime, woe betide if ur found burried neck high on the shore with your tongue cut out and your eyes stiched shut dont be blamin me eh.

also those posts i made didnt refer to any philosohpiK interpretation of masonary, just pointing out a few concerns governing their political standing in the world.

They do this??

PLO, you've now proven yourself to be a poser. Thank you. You use a threat of something you don't understand, and didn't even get context correct. Next you will be claiming to be Cleopatra... try again.

My record can be checked. Which Lodges did you do your degree work in? Have you gone through the Past Master Degree yet? Appendant bodies? Started through the Chairs? Who is the Upright Man? Who has the tyle? If you can't answer these questions, you are an outsider trying to poke fingers into things to make yourself feel better. There is nothing here that can't be answered in the open, so go ahead... if you are a member, you know these answers off the top of your head. If not, you will very easily stumble and be revealed.

I smell a rat who is trying to prove something. Try again, elsewhere. There is enough disinformation here to deal with without having to have to deal with a cowen.

No, RainbowRowan, the penalties that are described in the ritual-work are symbolic only, used to demonstrate the seriousness we place in the oaths and the ritual itself. The "threats" of the penalties are to make people think twice and more before giving out the "secrets" which are basically the passwords for each degrees and the funky hand-jive. However, there are some that haven't even heeded the symbolic threats, and these "secrets" are available online.

For a "secret" society, doesn't it seem strange that there aren't any "secrets" that heven't been revealed? If we can't keep these little things secret, how the heck do you guys think we could keep something HUGE secret? We couldn't. You give a group of regular guys WAaaaayyyy too much credit.

Scooby, I don't know what to say to a guy that sees demons possessing people in the world. Personally, I would prefer a cite to research this particular incident myself. One question comes to mind: did I read that right? The demon wouldn't leave because the guy's grandfather was a Freemason?? Do you follow a faith that believes that the "sins" of the fathers are continued to following generations? So if my grandfather was an unrepentant murderer, I am doomed to hell? That is hard to refute with fact, when faith is that deeply involved. So, using the same rules, aren't you doomed as well?

Oh, and for Freemasonry, there ARE only a few degrees... three to be exact. Everything beyond that is effectively different organizations...

In Freemasonry the 33° Scottish Rite is the highest level one can achieve (degree by invitation only). One is selected based on his ethic and dedication in relation to masonry. The highest level of dedication one could possibly have in relation to their beliefs is a willingness to sacrifice oneself for them. Jesus Christ did just that. He ultimately sacrificed himself for his beliefs - King Kill 33°
There was an article floating around online somewhere. The coincidences are just interesting (a fun read).

If any of yall really are Freemasons then maybe you can explain this to me, what is the deal with the Freemasons and "New World Order" at that new Denver airport?

From the Public Affairs Director at Denver International Airport:

There is more.

The reason there is a capstone with a Masonic emblem on it, is because the Freemasons PLACED the capstone. It is a symbol of the organization that placed it... if a company had done it, the company logo would have been used... if a municipality had done it, the city seal would have been used. That isn't hard to figure out.

The reason it says, "New World Airport" is because the group that was formed to build a new airport in Denver voted and called itself the "New World Airport Commission". Not a smart name, in my book, but I look at it like the flu/cold remedy that had six vitamins, treated six symptoms and worked for six hours called, "666" (no fooling! Google it!). A very unfortunate name, but not that surprising. They were building a new airport for a "new" world, one that was inclusive and could attract international travellers.

The layout of the runways? Established after a study that I was actually involved in, specifically designed to eliminate runway incursions (plane collisions and near-misses on airport property). They are spread out to allow simultaneous landings and takeoffs at an airport that has lots of gusty wind... and to facilitate getting to the appropriate gate.

Any further questions?

Thanks for your posts Malruhn. Interesting reading for a soon to be Master Mason in eight days....

Wiking

Is this your opinion or that of the person writing the article? either way, I haven't heard such ridiculous right-wing bollocks in a long time. Quite how any of us on this planet aren't in some way indirectly working for banks is beyond me also.

That's the opinion of Dr. Henry Makow, I'm just passing it on. I'm not a Freemason, and really don't know the truth about the Freemasons. I know that Masons lie to keep there secrets. I was in fraternaty Delta Chi, and I lied to keep our secrets. Of course these were noting to worry about, mainly what we do during hell week. I have outgrown the fraternity, and have told all my freinds what we did.

When I first came across Makow, I thought he was way to extreme for me, but I had no background knowledge of anything involving the New world order, I didn't even know what it represented. Now I do, and I find Makows articles more acceptable and believable to me at least.

I do believe in other souls entering the human body. This can be called demon possesion. It was really just an interesting story I wanted to pass along. My cousins and many of thier freinds are missionaries. When you are dealing with spiritual warfare, things happen that can not be explained by anyone. My cousins are very trustworthy, and very religious (Christian) They don't drink, even though they are 21, and 23, don't watch porn, swear, or do anything usually, but no one is perfect. I wish I could be like them, but I'm very sinful, and while I know I'm only hurting myself, I enjoy being the bad boy. Here's another short story, you can believe or dismiss for yourself. My cousins friend was in Africa visiting a village, and the the witch doctor there. The witch doctor was very powerfull, and turned himself into an eagle, and then hovered about 15 feet in the air above them. The witch doctor said somthing like my God allows me to fly. With that said the missionary responded, in the name Christ I command you to drop. The witchdoctor immediatly dropped to the ground, and the people of the village adopted Christianity to some extent, I don't know what exactly happened to them after that.

My cousin has many other amazing stories like that from around the world. In fact that whole family is special in that respect. This reminds me of another amazing story, you may not believe but should because it's true. My cousins mom, my aunt, went to the same High school as I did. During one of the high school dances, her date took her outside to "talk". As they went around the building, he suddenly threw her on the ground and attemted to rip off her cloths and rape her. She started quietly praying to Jesus in her mind to stop what was happening. Suddenly as it started, her date stopped and ran away. The next day, since they were freinds, she asked him why he had stopped. He looked surprised and said didn't you see that man in white standing over you. Of couse she said no, and then he told her, and man glowing in white was standing over you so I ran away.

I would highly recommend you buy this movie:

THE ILLUMINATI

A Feature Length Documentary Exposing The Global Network of Secret Societies & Royal Satanists

Featuring DAVID ICKE, ANTHONY J. HILDER, TED GUNDERSON, JORDAN MAXWELL & CHRIS EVERARD - for the first time all on one DVD.


http://www.enigmacyberstore.com/icke.htm

This post was longer then expected, I'm late for lunch.

Your cousins should have taken a video of that guy turning into a bird. They could have made a bundle for the church.